When do we end the Kareem experiment?

[GP]

Everybody else: Just see the video for yourself.

And answer me this: In terms of THAT play, did KJ save the day or did Julio go butterfingers and KJ happened to be there?

It's a simple question. I know we live in a world where there are shades of gray. We can make things SEEM to be whatever we want them to be.

But on THAT play, how much is KJ affecting the play vs. how much did Julio Jones affect the play?

Link. To. Video. Here.

OK, I'm going to watch Scrooge on ABC now. Seems fitting....

 

[76Texan]

And again...no one else was even around to make the play. I wish some would see that our hail mary defense didn't look so hot the last minute of that game instead of focusing on one player.

I agree.
Either 27 and/or 29 should have been a little closer to the play.

 

[LikeMike]

If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!

 

[ThaJokaa]

If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!

This

 

[thunderkyss]

You know, I sit here and put video AND photos together...showing that Kareem Jackson didn't affect the play...and it's deemed to be something we need to move on from, or that he got the game ball and that carries more weight?

OK. So much for objective analysis.

Let's not discuss it. No, let's say what we feel and just roll with that. LOL.

You're not listening. We are not seeing what you are seeing. Even with your video

 

[fiasco west]

I never said he didn't have a good game. You're reading into things and putting words in my mouth.

I'm only talking about the last play, and have ONLY talked about the last play. Period.

It's like the whole "Is God Real?" debate. I believe in God, but am told that the burden of proof rests upon ME to prove God is real. Well, Julio Jones out and out DROPPED that pass and yet I'm supposed to prove that he could have maintained possession if he HAD caught it to begin with!

Like I said: He can give half of that game ball to the his co-worker.

It was a great gesture to give him the ball. Big whoop.

You never said he did either.

I don't even care about how much he affected, it's nearly impossible to tell. KJs hand IS there though and Julio DOES drop the ball. It is mind-reading to say Kareem had no affect.

If you are catching a ball and meanwhile as you are catching it someone's hand hits your bicep it is entirely possible that Julio panicked for a millisecond and didn't focus on catching the ball and lost grip of it before he knew it. These things happen so fast, slowing it down and watching it over and over still doesn't simulate what actually happened.

Usually when a player gets a game ball it's because they had a good game. We all know that.

 

[76Texan]

76, do you think Kj could have played that better? Is there anything Kj could have done to prevent Julio from getting his hands on the ball at all?

Yes, but then again, the action on the field is pretty fast.

They both located the ball; they both got to their spot.
Julio got a hand on KJ's chest; he got the upperhand.
I would have liked for KJ to get a hand on Julio's chest instead.

As both were looking at the ball, the refs won't call those things.
I remember one play from last year (a divisional game) where the DB even pushed off Walter, but as he was looking back at the ball, the ref didn't call it.

I don't think KJ was in position to play the "pushing the receiver out of bound" card.
He did it before in this game, and in some other games (Dez Bryant came to mind).

 

[Rey]

If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!

That's about what I'd put it at. 70/30.

Not sure why folks can't see he could have (and probably expects to) catch that ball anyways had he not had stone hands all game long.

That said, the catch is a lot easier if kj isn't right there pestering him.

I really don't get the either or proposition in here.

Have you guys played football past middle school?

Any receiver worth their salt expects to make that catch and most big time players would. And those saying kj didn't effect the play are ridiculous.

You try catching a ball by yourself and the just put a chair close by and tell me if it's harder or easier.

 

[thunderkyss]

Yes...

That's all I need to know, thank you.

 

[76Texan]

The refs credited Yates with a fumble that flew 10 yards FORWARD, too, but it doesn't mean that's what happened. Next? Geez, you're having fun with stats again, huh?

You're reaching as much as KJ did, and coming up with the same thing: Nothing. But you got to post it, so it MUST be true!

NFL.com and Stats, LLC are two independent (and more or less official) sources.
The refs didn't tell them that KJ defended the pass.

That they agreed with the HC (who is another official source) tend to give more credibility.

And quit with that you post, I post stuff, LOL!
We went through this so many times before, there's no need to bring up that card.

Somebody wanted to discredit a player; I disagree so I want to present my point.
I never claim that because I post something that it must be TRUE.
Only those who disagree with me play that card (usually becaue they can't win the argument, LOL!)

PS - You like to use NOTHING and ZERO from time to time, but it was proven later that there was SOMETHING; I sincerely suggest that you refrain from that line.

 

[PockyAF]

1. Let's say Julio managed to hang on to the ball a little longer, there's nothing to indicate that he will be able to maintain possession of the ball throughout the catch as KJ's hand was in there.

2. It was not a catch as it was.

3. KJ got the game ball.

I WIN!

Not a psychology major, but this part clearly indicates a flustered person who do not/cannot continue a debate, and most likely knows he and his trash image analysis and numbers are debunked, and therefore will declare himself the victor in hopes the big bad wolf will leave him alone with "his precious".. I believe I seen this displays before by an 8-year old.

Great video analysis GP.. and for those saying that they trust the game ball over outsiders opinions...I'm also pretty sure Frank Bush was given the game ball a couple times before... hmm, what ended up happening to him again?

For the record , I trust Lance Zierlien opinions over 76Texans and the game ball combined... also for the record, there's a reason why GP rep points are 4X as much as 76.. and it ain't just because of his post counts.

Clear indication of how deeply people here value your "opinion" and analysis, bro..

But then again, "you win". buhahaha

 

[thunderkyss]

That's about what I'd put it at. 70/30.

If we're looking at just the "drop" I can agree with that. Take Kj completely out of the picture & Matt Ryan putts it on a rope & it's a much easier catch. He's nowhere near the sideline, he doesn't have to jump, he doesn't have to worry about someone hitting him.

It's a much easier catch all together.

So I'd say 70% affected the play/30% drop....

 

[76Texan]

Not a psychology major, but this part clearly indicates a flustered person who do not/cannot continue a debate, and most likely knows he and his trash image analysis and numbers are debunked, and therefore will declare himself the victor in hopes the big bad wolf will leave him alone with "his precious".. I believe I seen this displays before by an 8-year old.

Great video analysis GP.. and for those saying that they trust the game ball over outsiders opinions...I'm also pretty sure Frank Bush was given the game ball a couple times before... hmm, what ended up happening to him again?

For the record , I trust Lance Zierlien opinions over 76Texans and the game ball combined... also for the record, there's a reason why GP rep points are 4X as much as 76.. and it ain't just because of his post counts.

Clear indication of how deeply people here value your "opinion" and analysis, bro..

But then again, "you win". buhahaha

Fact: I'm still here to continue the debate!

Fact:
LanceZ's prediction:
Falcons – 21 Texans – 17

 

[Rey]

If we're looking at just the "drop" I can agree with that. Take Kj completely out of the picture & Matt Ryan putts it on a rope & it's a much easier catch. He's nowhere near the sideline, he doesn't have to jump, he doesn't have to worry about someone hitting him.

It's a much easier catch all together.

So I'd say 70% affected the play/30% drop....

I can't go that far. Just being on the field and in the vicinity doesn't get any extra points from me on a hail Mary.

Let's not forget that this was a hail Mary pass. Just a straight vertical. Everyone knows what's coming. John McClain could have just laid down back there and took up space and made it a "harder catch".

Look, Kareem did enough because he dropped the ball. But if you ask me if I'd be ok with Kareem doing that every time there was a hail mary in the ez I'd say no, I'd probably like to see him do a little more to ensure there was no chance at a catch. Put a body on the guy, grab both arms, you be the one to actually get both hands on the ball, atleast get one hand on the ball.

Ball hit the receiver in both of his hands. Pulling on an arm is great when you aren't close enough to affect the play in any other substantial way, but that isnt ideal.

 

[GlassHalfFull]

Let's not forget that this was a hail Mary pass. Just a straight vertical. Everyone knows what's coming. John McClain could have just laid down back there and took up space and made it a "harder catch".

Can we all agree that John McClain would have taken up at least 70% more space?

 

[buddyboy]

I never said he didn't have a good game. You're reading into things and putting words in my mouth.

Earlier in the thread, on the game ball being given to Kareem, you say he should "cut it in half and give the other half to Jason Allen", which obviously says you don't believe he deserved it. You have gone on and on this subject of Kareem not actually being part of the number 1 defense, that they've done it in spite of him.

 

[thunderkyss]

I can't go that far. Just being on the field and in the vicinity doesn't get any extra points from me on a hail Mary.

Demps & Quin are in the vicinity.

I agree that he should not have given up his position, I agree he should have gone up & got his hands on the ball, I agree it should have been better defended.

But to act like Julio would have dropped the ball if KJ sat & watched is silly, which is what's being argued.

 

[Texn4life]

I love when people bring up rep points on here.

 

[thunderkyss]

I love when people bring up rep points on here.

What do you know? You've got like 342 rep points.

 

[Texn4life]

What do you know? You've got like 342 rep points.

Yeah, my football knowledge sucks though.

 

[TejasTom]

Sherman Set the WABAC Machine for Dec. 4, 2011 with 0:01 second left in the Texans - Falcons game. We will need to be in the north end zone on the west side. We need to keep Kareem Jackson from touching Julio Jones so we can determine if Kareem affected the play.



A bird in the hand is worth a win on Sunday.

 

[Rey]

I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds.

It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.

 

[Rey]

Julio just made the catch that put them on the 25 and in position to throw the hail Mary over kjax. Sick catch. Kareem was right there but Julio is just bigger and soared over him.

 

[Rey]

Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.

 

[RTP2110]

I don't want to debate anyone but I will add my opinion. I don't think Jackson had much to do with the incompletion. When I watch GP's video I see two things, first Jones catches the end of the ball. His hands are on the front third, and not around the middle of the ball. This is why he has a grip on it at first, but loses it as his hands bring the ball downward. Second, watch the video and look at nothing but Jones' left arm. I don't see any evidence that his arm is hampered or impeded by any outside force. Jackson's arm is wedged between Jones' arm and chest, but I never see Jones' arm pulled or affected at all. And I don't think Jackson made the catch any harder, this is the NFL, 99.9% of the catches are closely contested.

Again, its just my opinion. I'm not roasting KJ, just commenting on the last play. I'm not trying to debate. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine and I have no problem with that.

 

[Rey]

And finally the last play.

Whoever said glover and demps should have done more are incorrect. Gq came from almost the middle of the field. Demps probably could have done more but he risked getting a pi call. He couldn't have done a whole lot either.

Kareem was in the best position to defend the play and after watching it I'm less impressed with what he did.

He looked up, located the ball and failed to put his body in between the receiver and the ball. Maybe he was afraid of pi, or maybe he was intimidated by the fact that Julio had made some nice plays on him on that drive and a couple earlier in the game but in all honestly that's a catch Julio should have made.

Now you can disagree with that if you want, but I had to look again for myself and I think anyone saying Kareem is mostly the reason for the drop is incorrect.

It's funny because none of the guys around the play really celebrated or congratulated Kareem. They all looked like they had just seen a ghost.

Probably thanking their lucky stars that he dropped the ball.

 

[Rey]

I'm going to chalk it up to the level of qb and receiver we went against but Kareem gave up more plays down the field than both Allen and Joseph combined.

The out and up, the fade route and then on the last drive when Allen got hurt every pass that was actually caught or had a chance at being caught was against Kareem.

Kareem is getting better, but Allen still covers down the field better.

 

[76Texan]

I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds.

It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.

I had prepared (even before you post about this play) to comment, but I never did for the simple reason I've been sticking to (not to tear down the guy).

I don't like the way he got himself hurt though.
And I would just leave it at that, for the same reason!

 

[TejasTom]

... They all looked like they had just seen a ghost.

The ghost of Jaguars' games past.

 

[76Texan]

Julio just made the catch that put them on the 25 and in position to throw the hail Mary over kjax. Sick catch. Kareem was right there but Julio is just bigger and soared over him.

Prevent defense 4 deep, 3 underneath, rushing 4.
Cushing probably should get back deeper (at least 12 yards) to tighten the window.
He can always react to the RB (who stayed back and blocked along with the TE - Quin guarding the inside underneath zone.)

 

[76Texan]

Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.

You are crazy, Rey, sorry!

That one will never result in a catch!

:wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm

 

[Rey]

I had prepared (even before you post about this play) to comment, but I never did for the simple reason I've been sticking to (not to tear down the guy).

I don't like the way he got himself hurt though.
And I would just leave it at that, for the same reason!

Why would you tear down any body?

It's ok to give honest criticism, but o have honestly never heard you give a negative criticism of Kareem and even when Allen makes a play you act like it's no big deal.

News flash, he's better than Kareem at covering down the field.

You like to talk about trusting the coaches and there is a reason he saw a lot of time against that team and there is a reason he was in on those last two series and not kareem. .… well before he got hurt.

Ive asked you to do this before but maybe I'm writing in hieroglyphics when I think I'm writing in English, but it'd be nice if you actually gave objective analysis.

The fact that you are fighting back the urge to "tear" down Allen for the hit (yes he lowered his head; bad move) that injured him is kind of strange to me when you havent said a peep about the excellent coverage that he had on Julio the drive before while Kareem was getting caught all over as soon as he came in.

Both players have their warts, both players have things that they do better than the other one.

Not sure why you struggle to come to grips with that.

 

[Rey]

You are crazy, Rey, sorry!

That one will never result in a catch!

:wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm::wadepalm

What?

It wasn't a statistical catch, but he caught the ball. The point is that he's catching the ball and Kareem is smothering him and is in pretty good position.

I think Every pass that was actually a statistical catch for Julio came against Kareem though.

 

[76Texan]

And finally the last play.

Whoever said glover and demps should have done more are incorrect. Gq came from almost the middle of the field. Demps probably could have done more but he risked getting a pi call. He couldn't have done a whole lot either.

Another prevent defense, either 5 deep 2 underneath or 4 deep 3 underneath, but this one is deeper.
Two receivers on the other side with 4 guys covering.
One lone receiver on this side.
Whatever the defense call was, either Quin or Demps (most likely Demps) has to head straight to the receiver, no question asked!

 

[Rey]

Another prevent defense, either 5 deep 2 underneath or 4 deep 3 underneath, but this one is deeper.
Two receivers on the other side with 4 guys covering.
One lone receiver on this side.
Whatever the defense call was, either Quin or Demps (most likely Demps) has to head straight to the receiver, no question asked!

76, you don't know what they are taught to do. I don't take these kind of posts seriously and never will.

Ive been around too much football.

You can get all these other folks buying this stuff, but I know better. Try again.

You dont head straight for a receiver when you are in a deep zone. That makes 0 sense. Otherwise you might as well say you are doubling the receiver. . .which he wasn't.

 

[76Texan]

What?

It wasn't a statistical catch, but he caught the ball. The point is that he's catching the ball and Kareem is smothering him and is in pretty good position.

I think Every pass that was actually a statistical catch for Julio came against Kareem though.

1. A ball caught by a receiver who went out of bound is called an incompletion!
2. The DB was in good position; even as the receiver catches the ball and got pushed out of bound without both feet inbound (and Julio had neither foot inbound), it is still an incompletion!

 

[76Texan]

76, you don't know what they are taught to do. I don't take these kind of posts seriously and never will.

Ive been around too much football.

You can get all these other folks buying this stuff, but I know better. Try again.

You dont head straight for a receiver when you are in a deep zone. That makes 0 sense. Otherwise you might as well say you are doubling the receiver. . .which he wasn't.

Amazing!
In a 5-deep and you want to tell me that the right-inside deep back stay frozen on 3 verticals, with only one coming his way!

I believe you play on the line, am I correct?

 

[Rey]

1. A ball caught by a receiver who went out of bound is called an incompletion!
2. The DB was in good position; even as the receiver catches the ball and got pushed out of bound without both feet inbound (and Julio had neither foot inbound), it is still an incompletion!

Try to follow along.

I mentioned that play to show that Julio was capable of catching a ball even with tight coverage around him.

You are not even thinking before you respond. You are just in defend Kareem mode like a mother bear defending her cubs. Dude take a step back, breath.

I wasn't even criticizing kjax there and even used the word "smothering" to describe his coverage.

 

[Rey]

Amazing!
In a 5-deep and you want to tell me that the right-inside deep back stay frozen on 3 verticals, with only one coming his way!

I believe you play on the line, am I correct?

Frozen? Who said anything about frozen?

Just in case you didn't know the safety has to honor the fact that one if those verticals can actually turn into a post. He cannot "head straight to the receiver" as you said. That doesn't make any sense at all.

If that is the case then he is just doubling the receiver and that's not what happened.

He cannot head straight to the receiver and then one of the receivers on the other side of the field heads towards the middle and now you have one on one coverage.

Like I said, you can preach this stuff to some people but I know better. Me playing on the line has nothing to do with anything. I was in all kind of meeting rooms at some point. I've played scout team and heard defensive coaches coaching. I've been in special team meeting rooms and offensive meeting rooms.

I've heard the qb coach talking to the qb telling him what to look for.

You know, you just pick up on stuff after being around so long. And I can tell that most of the stuff you preach is stuff you read somewhere and interpreted for yourself and not stuff you have learned from experience. It's cookie cutter, often doesn't make sense and doesn't take live football into the equation.

 

[76Texan]

I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds. It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.

Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.

The first one was closer to being a catch but you gave plenty of credit to Allen.
The second is never going to be a catch (even if Julio didn't step out of bound) and you have to add "they are either targeting Kareem".
It was good coverage by both, but you touted one and downplayed the other (by sidetracking).

 

[76Texan]

Frozen? Who said anything about frozen?

Just in case you didn't know the safety has to honor the fact that one if those verticals can actually turn into a post. He cannot "head straight to the receiver" as you said. That doesn't make any sense at all.

If that is the case then he is just doubling the receiver and that's not what happened.

He cannot head straight to the receiver and then one of the receivers on the other side of the field heads towards the middle and now you have one on one coverage.

Like I said, you can preach this stuff to some people but I know better. Me playing on the line has nothing to do with anything. I was in all kind of meeting rooms at some point. I've played scout team and heard defensive coaches coaching. I've been in special team meeting rooms and offensive meeting rooms.

I've heard the qb coach talking to the qb telling him what to look for.

You know, you just pick up on stuff after being around so long. And I can tell that most of the stuff you preach is stuff you read somewhere and interpreted for yourself and not stuff you have learned from experience. It's cookie cutter, often doesn't make sense and doesn't take live football into the equation.

In a 5-deep, the middle DB will pick up the post route from the other side.
Demps has nothing to do with it!

 

[Rey]

The first one was closer to being a catch but you gave plenty of credit to Allen.
The second is never going to be a catch (even if Julio didn't step out of bound) and you have to add "they are either targeting Kareem".
It was good coverage by both, but you touted one and downplayed the other (by sidetracking).

I didn't downplay Kareem.

Not sure how you mistake "kareem was smothering him and was in pretty good position" as down playing it.

And you are making my point for me. The catch Allen defended against actually had a chance of being a long completion for a td. It was just a straight go route.

The one to Kareem was a half hearted out and up that just looked like improvisation by Julio on a busted play.

It had no chance of being a completion because Julio ran himself out of bounds whereas Allen forced him to the sideline on his defended pass.

Go back and listen to the announcers talk about Allen using the sideline as his friend.

And you're still missing the point. I wasn't even comparing the two of them on that play. I was pointing out that Julio is capable of making catches with defenders all over him. But somehow you seem to be conveniently ignoring that point along with the fact that the coaches trusted Allen to be in the game more in that situation. So much, that they had him in there for the last two defensive series over kj.

 

[Rey]

In a 5-deep, the middle DB will pick up the post route from the other side.
Demps has nothing to do with it!

Yes he would have had the ball been thrown in his zone to a receiver coming from the other side of the field.

You act like receivers run routes and just stop where their route is supposed to end. Lots of times receivers will run through multiple zones. Especially if the qb has time to scramble and buy extra time. That is why he cannot immediately abandon his responsibility. It's easy to say in hindsight but at the time he doesn't know what's coming. He doesn't know when Ryan is going to throw the ball. He doesn't know where it will be thrown to.

You cannot just look at the formation and say "run straight to that receiver". Again, that makes absolutely no sense. Those receivers could end up anywhere.

 

[76Texan]

The out and up, the fade route and then on the last drive when Allen got hurt every pass that was actually caught or had a chance at being caught was against Kareem.

So you call a 26-yd wheel route and a 20-yd into the zone a bad day vs. the good plays he made?
And let me remind you that on the last drive, there were 3 passes thrown his way, including that 20-yd pass into the zone.
The other two were incomplettions, one with perfect coverage by Jackson and the other is a game-changer (whatever percentage you want to credit him for on the last play.)
If he bombed, they tied the game.

He didn't, and we won!
And here you give me this sheete!

 

[76Texan]

Yes he would have had the ball been thrown in his zone to a receiver coming from the other side of the field.

You act like receivers run routes and just stop where their route is supposed to end. Lots of times receivers will run through multiple zones. Especially if the qb has time to scramble and buy extra time. That is why he cannot immediately abandon his responsibility. It's easy to say in hindsight but at the time he doesn't know what's coming. He doesn't know when Ryan is going to throw the ball. He doesn't know where it will be thrown to.

You cannot just look at the formation and say "run straight to that receiver". Again, that makes absolutely no sense. Those receivers could end up anywhere.

I have no idea what yor talking about.

The inside receiver from the other side (the only one who can threaten a post route) was double teamed (basically) by the deep left DB and the underneath defender; then there was the middle safety.

Demps has nothing to do with it at any given moment of the play!

 

[Rey]

So you call a 26-yd wheel route and a 20-yd into the zone a bad day vs. the good plays he made?
And let me remind you that on the last drive, there were 3 passes thrown his way, including that 20-yd pass into the zone.
The other two were incomplettions, one with perfect coverage by Jackson and the other is a game-changer (whatever percentage you want to credit him for on the last play.)
If he bombed, they tied the game.

He didn't, and we won!
And here you give me this sheete!

Please show me where I said he had a bad day.

And I said that they were passing his way quite a bit on that last drive. I said either they were targeting him, really like Julio or were afraid of Joseph. Or maybe some combo of the three.

That said, on the td drive they had Julio beat Kareem to set them up down at the goal line.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in think all of Julio's completions came against Kareem. That's through out the game, not just on the last drive.

And yes I said they may have been targeting Kareem on that last drive. Please forgive me in advance.

 

[Rey]

I have no idea what yor talking about.

I know.

 

[GP]

Earlier in the thread, on the game ball being given to Kareem, you say he should "cut it in half and give the other half to Jason Allen", which obviously says you don't believe he deserved it. You have gone on and on this subject of Kareem not actually being part of the number 1 defense, that they've done it in spite of him.

No, I said that to show 76 how absurd his statement was. He was trying to use that as some sort of trump card that was supposed to be a nail in the coffin of my position on THIS ISSUE.

Plus, I've seen what I can only assume is some Alabama fans on here getting butt hurt whenever #25 is held accountable to his mistakes. I can't otherwise begin to understand the sharp replies about a guy none of you have met but surely have seen play on Sundays. He's not special, yet, and the jury is still out on the issue of his improvement form last year to this year...give me a full season of the guy NOT splitting time at CB2 before you and 76 try to string me up on "hater" charges, please.

By the way, big damn deal if he got a game ball.

If I wanted to really rub 76's face in his little distraction excursion, I could have said this instead:

Little kids who attend a friend's birthday end up going home with a goodie bag too. What did the kids do to get gifts tossed right back at them on their way out the door? Nothing much, really. They brought a gift for the birthday boy and someone somewhere started this tradition of making the non-birthday kids feel almost as special as the birthday boy. Result: "Hey, it's ok Tommy! I know it sucked watching the birthday boy get all those cool gifts...so we put together a plastic baggie that has silly puddy, some bubble gum, and a kazoo in it. See? You got something too!"

But I didn't say that. I would never say that. I think the car pooling system he and Jason Allen are a part of is speaking for itself, and the video shows that we can slow down on any talk of KJ saving the day by pulling Julio Jones' arm down on the last play. It's a phantom existence. He wasn't bad, he's playing decent, but the deep stuff is still tricky for him and that's where a team with a good QB (Saints, for example) will make their hay on us.

At this point, I think we've got around 3 or 4 other secondary players who could play CB2 as good as (or even better than) Kareem Jackson. Credit the Texans for being patient and at least trying to bring the guy along...but that doesn't mean he gets goodie bags when it isn't his birthday to begin with. There, I said it.

 

[76Texan]

I didn't downplay Kareem.

Not sure how you mistake "kareem was smothering him and was in pretty good position" as down playing it.

And you are making my point for me. The catch Allen defended against actually had a chance of being a long completion for a td. It was just a straight go route.

The one to Kareem was a half hearted out and up that just looked like improvisation by Julio on a busted play.

It had no chance of being a completion because Julio ran himself out of bounds whereas Allen forced him to the sideline on his defended pass.

Go back and listen to the announcers talk about Allen using the sideline as his friend.

And you're still missing the point. I wasn't even comparing the two of them on that play. I was pointing out that Julio is capable of making catches with defenders all over him. But somehow you seem to be conveniently ignoring that point along with the fact that the coaches trusted Allen to be in the game more in that situation. So much, that they had him in there for the last two defensive series over kj.

Trust me, I do not miss any of your point; it is your hidden agenda that I'm pointing out!

Jackson played the first 2 series in the first half (4 plays).
Allen then played the next 2 series (8 plays).
Jaclson the played the next 2 series (13 plays).
Allen played the last series of the half (3 plays)

Jackson then played the first 2 series of the second half (19 plays)
Allen played the third series (12 plays).
On the last drive, Allen was hurt during the first play, Jackson played the last 7 snaps.

Somewhere during the game, Allen was inserted in for a couple of plays (while Jackson was also in there) after McCain whiffed on a play.

 

[76Texan]

Please show me where I said he had a bad day.

And I said that they were passing his way quite a bit on that last drive. I said either they were targeting him, really like Julio or were afraid of Joseph. Or maybe some combo of the three.

That said, on the td drive they had Julio beat Kareem to set them up down at the goal line.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in think all of Julio's completions came against Kareem. That's through out the game, not just on the last drive.

And yes I said they may have been targeting Kareem on that last drive. Please forgive me in advance.

And the results?