what about when the offense doesn't go 3 wides? that would leave you with Allen with contain responsibility.
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When do we end the Kareem experiment?
- Thread starter downtownsb
- Start date
what about when the offense doesn't go 3 wides? that would leave you with Allen with contain responsibility.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
thank you that was my whole point.
kwayshauntay
Waterboy
Thanks for the heads up.
Here's the link if anyone else is interested:
http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...anuary-1/6d41209a-85e3-4062-a9ac-e67634d4af1f
TejasTom
All Pro
Just standing around was probably Keo.
Harris was great at locating the ball and knocking it away in college and showed great body control in the air.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I guess, you need to figure that more "home runs" come from passes than runs. Nevertheless, I was thinking in terms of next year when we hopefully look at having a better pass coverage option.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
I don't know if it's that people want or realistically expect 2 shutdown corners.....but when I get a beer and can't see the TV and I hear a big play happen for the other team and without seeing the TV I know what Texans jersey I'll see falling or getting burnt or not turning his head on replay (and i'd say 8 out of 10 times I'm right in this situation) guess who it is??
I don't hate the guy as a person and won't say he is the worst CB ever, that would be foolish.
The same is true IMO to come to his defense. Not everything about football is some over complicated algorhythm. Sometimes you really can just believe what you are seeing with your own eyes.
foo82
Waterboy
But, in all seriousness, how often do you see him targeted? It would be one thing if this were happening 4 or 5 times per game, but usually its limited to 1 per game roughly.
I'm not saying he's playing great, but if he's only targetted roughly 3 to 4 time a game, he is doing something right.
Btw, where can we see DB stats on coverage?
He isn't targeted as much as he would be because he isn't playing the whole game like a normal starter would.
If he played more its possible that he could be exposed more and it's also possible that he could make more plays.
Also, I'm not sure why folks think the next step up from Kareem is "shutdown" or "probowl player"....
We can get better at that position without having two shutdown corners on the field.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Repped. Perfect description of KJ.
I still thought it was a no brainer to go with Kyle Wilson, but instead they went with the guy who had a higher floor than ceiling.
When does the KJ experiment end? I think he's got next year to see if he can grow into a solid #2. I just don't think he's got what it takes to be a #1.
silvrhand
All Pro
Sigh.. dude how many CB's do you think can cover WR when there are 5-6 seconds for a NFL QB to sit back there and find the open guy, or the receiver to get open.
I still think you have unrealistic expectations to have two Deion Sanders on our team.
His point was that there's need to be a goat, and Jackson is it!
I listened to a radio host and he was dead-on when he said there could be a goat this coming game or next game, or whenever. And it will most probably be Yates or Jackson.
LOL, I'm so ready for that.
silvrhand
All Pro
Yah but I also believe you can't just let it go and realize you'll never convince him otherwise
The reason this thread just won't die.. I login each day hoping not to see it again lol.You need to read more closely.
Greg Cosell isn't my boy. He's Leebig's boy.
I do like him though, because he has a lot of knowledge.
He's the Executive Producer for NFL Matchup and Sr Producer of NFL Films for 31 years and so he watches all the coaches' tapes.
Not all radio hosts are equal.
I think you might want to rewatch those two plays.
Allen was the one who flat out got beat by the receiver's move.
Jackson was there, but failed to finish the play (hence the term "tight coverage" by rotoworld.)
From what I learned in a couple of NFL playbooks, they taught the receiver to not try to look for the ball once he gets beat but to concentrate on his man instead (ie. playing the man, not the ball)
It looks to me, that it could apply in this instance, for Allen.
Yah but I also believe you can't just let it go and realize you'll never convince him otherwise
I don't have to convince EU or anybody, really.
It's always good to discuss football.
I welcome all different views.
That is one of the things that makes the game more interesting.
And do you know why he slipped?
There was a mix-up in coverage and KJ had to try to cover two receivers by himself (it also happened last year.)
Instead of giving him kudo, people tries to put him down for the effort!
KJ is great in run support, but his lack of ball skills/not turning his head/falling down means he will never even be an above average #2 CB. Can someone tell me if KJ/Allen are splitting snaps 50/50 how many times combined are they being targeted more than Joseph? How many times is Jackson being targeted vs Allen? Whats the yds per completetion? How many pass interference penalties does KJ vs Allen have and for how many yards? Is KJ's ability in run support worth his deficencies in pass coverage?
Hopefully Harris will grow into CB2 next season with a full training camp. I was real high on Harris in last yrs draft and believe he's got the potential to be an upgrade over KJ/Allen. Hopefully this is the case so that a CB wont be needed in FA/Draft.
I've also got high hopes for Carmicheal. Although he's undersized that guys a playmaker.
The DB position is the most difficult position for me to evaluate in the draft. Think about this Joseph fell to the 18-20 range in the draft because of character concerns. There's a CB in this draft that reminds me of the Joseph situation and should be available in rd. 2. (Cliff Harris CB Oregon) Would you (76) be willing to take a chance on him late in the 2nd rd?
Hopefully Harris will grow into CB2 next season with a full training camp. I was real high on Harris in last yrs draft and believe he's got the potential to be an upgrade over KJ/Allen. Hopefully this is the case so that a CB wont be needed in FA/Draft.
I've also got high hopes for Carmicheal. Although he's undersized that guys a playmaker.
The DB position is the most difficult position for me to evaluate in the draft. Think about this Joseph fell to the 18-20 range in the draft because of character concerns. There's a CB in this draft that reminds me of the Joseph situation and should be available in rd. 2. (Cliff Harris CB Oregon) Would you (76) be willing to take a chance on him late in the 2nd rd?
I don't think the Texans will draft a player that has been suspended from the team.
I don't think the Texans will draft a CB anyway.
Look at it this way, Jackson is playing better than D. McCourty this year.
Some people thought I was crazy when I stick with Jackson over McCourty.
I said that McCourty was babysat in his rookie year.
Now that he's not, he got burned left and right.
He looks worse in his second year than KJ in his rookie year.
Kyle Wilson played so poorly in his rookie year, he was sent to the dog house.
Now he's playing nickel back.
Jackson is the better pick.
Harris still has a lot of work to do.
Carmichael is like Jason Allen without the speed.
I had taken snap shots of all defensive plays for about 10 games.
I also has a rough count for the others.
It's somewhere around 55-57% for Jackson and 45-46% of the snaps for Allen in the games they both played in. (There were plays when both were on the field together.)
Football Outsiders has these stats:
Texans rank #25 against #1 WR
They rank #9 against #2 WR
They rank #13 agaisnt other receivers.
They rank #13 against the TEs
And they rank #9 against the RBs
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
It is not clear who they determine as he #1 receiver on each team, so take it FWIW.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/999891-new-england-patriots-where-does-devin-mccourty-stand-after-two-seasons
The Millennium Man
According to Pro Football Focus, Devin McCourty is giving up more yards than any cornerback since 2008 at least (when they started tracking it), and with 985 yards against him to date, could become the first cornerback since '08 to give up 1,000 yards.
No matter how little or how much you value yards as a statistic, that is evidence that he is being targeted often, and that quarterbacks are having success when they do target him.
On the season, he has been targeted 98 times, giving up 61 receptions (10.1 yards per attempt), with six touchdowns on his watch and one interception. All those numbers add up to a 112.0 passer rating against him, which ranks 16th-worst out of 108 qualifying cornerbacks.
......
And this is before the last game of the season against the Bills that I intend to watch soon.
McCourty also missed some time with a minor injury (replaced by Moiden as previously mentioned.)
How about Mike Jenkins?
The Cowboys picked him up at #25 in 2009.
Look at how he has played so far.
In his rookie year, he was protected as well.
Look at how his plays had gone astray in his second year.
High expectation for a young CB is unnecessary, I've always said.
Notice that they also mentioned DRC as having a catastrophe year similarly.
He was drafted at #16 by the Cards.
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/04/pro-football-focus-cornerback.html
On cornerbacks:
Terence Newman began to show his age in 2010. Once one of the top players at his position, he is now 32 and appears to be on the decline. After a solid 2009, he crashed back to earth in a big way. Although he picked off five passes, he also gave up five touchdowns and allowed 65% of balls to be complete. His 914 yards allowed ranked sixth worst in the NFL. Compare that to 2009 where he allowed just 740 yards and 57% of balls to be complete.
We singled Mike Jenkins out as one of the most promising young players at the end of the 2009 season....Like fellow first round pick Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie however, his 2010 season was nothing short of a catastrophe. His QB rating allowed more than doubled (from 54.0 to 122.0), he allowed more touchdowns (two compared to six) and had fewer picks (five compared to one).
The Cowboys picked him up at #25 in 2009.
Look at how he has played so far.
In his rookie year, he was protected as well.
Look at how his plays had gone astray in his second year.
High expectation for a young CB is unnecessary, I've always said.
Notice that they also mentioned DRC as having a catastrophe year similarly.
He was drafted at #16 by the Cards.
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/04/pro-football-focus-cornerback.html
On cornerbacks:
Terence Newman began to show his age in 2010. Once one of the top players at his position, he is now 32 and appears to be on the decline. After a solid 2009, he crashed back to earth in a big way. Although he picked off five passes, he also gave up five touchdowns and allowed 65% of balls to be complete. His 914 yards allowed ranked sixth worst in the NFL. Compare that to 2009 where he allowed just 740 yards and 57% of balls to be complete.
We singled Mike Jenkins out as one of the most promising young players at the end of the 2009 season....Like fellow first round pick Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie however, his 2010 season was nothing short of a catastrophe. His QB rating allowed more than doubled (from 54.0 to 122.0), he allowed more touchdowns (two compared to six) and had fewer picks (five compared to one).
silvrhand
All Pro
Heck I'm quite happy right now with our defense, yah is KJ still not perfect nope, but if anyone was asked last year if we would be happy with a top 10 defense, I bet there wouldn't be a single person that wouldn't.
We have come a long way this year, just need to continue the progress and move forward.
Exactly!
http://blog.houstontexans.com/
Kubiak said cornerback Kareem Jackson will continue to start at cornerback opposite Johnathan Joseph, although the Texans will likely play a lot of nickel on Saturday because of the Bengals offense. Kareem could have played better yesterday; a lot of guys could, Kubiak said. He needs to find the ball better in a couple of situations. He was in good position and didnt finish the play, but for the most part hes had a good year, and its time for him to be even better.
This is in reference to the long pass play that I mentioned in another thread.
I saw Jackson as being in phase with the receiver; but he needed to finish it better.
People keeps telling me I don't know what I was talking about only to have Kubiak confirm what I saw on the field.
And how about the second coming of Deion Sanders?
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/6481/patrick-peterson
Cardinals rookie CB Patrick Peterson has been called for 10 penalties for 121 yards already this season.
Peterson's performance in the punt return game has been electric, but his play at corner has been downright bad. The No. 5 overall pick ranks among the worst starting corners in the league according to Pro Football Focus and gets relentlessly attacked on a weekly basis. The Cardinals would be wise to keep him away from Brandon Lloyd on Sunday.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/6481/patrick-peterson
Cardinals rookie CB Patrick Peterson has been called for 10 penalties for 121 yards already this season.
Peterson's performance in the punt return game has been electric, but his play at corner has been downright bad. The No. 5 overall pick ranks among the worst starting corners in the league according to Pro Football Focus and gets relentlessly attacked on a weekly basis. The Cardinals would be wise to keep him away from Brandon Lloyd on Sunday.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Peterson is a safety playing CB. Maybe the same thing can be said about Kareem?
I honestly don't mind KJ playing safety or nickel if we can find a better CB.
The question is where to find that guy.
I don't think the Texans will draft a CB early, and even at their spot in the first round, it's going to be very difficult to find a good one that can come in and play right away (if not impossible).
I don't think the Texans can afford another high-priced FA either.
KJ will do at least for now.
There's always a chance he can still improve.
IMO, he will improve some more, except for the unreal expectation of some fans.
Here, I found some pretty funny stuff regarding Peterson.
This one is pretty recent.
http://forums.projectcovo.com/showthread.php?p=1132013411
I'm dead serious too. Dude is garbage playing corner.
I don't have the latest stats right now but best believe QBs have a QB rating around 100 when throwing at him. He has like 10 penalties on him this year. He's ranked as one of the worst CBs in the league and dead last in the NFC West by PFF.
Obviously he's a rookie, but he looks just plain atrocious playing corner. Slipping, has trouble turning on his man, getting torched by mediocre ass QBs and average wideouts...this guy makes me remember mike rumph his rookie year, I swear.
if it wasn't for his amazing punt returns, people would talk more about this. so far dude has been a total bust on D.
...
Agreed.... That man has been getting BAKED! ...
I wonder how he'd look @ Safety.
....
i believe he's played safety already this year...and he's just sucked, period. he always looks lost as shiit...like he don't even know the plays. might as well be a Giants DB.
....
obviously too early to call him a bust yet,
BUT...watching cards they play mostly man to man, and dude is just bad in fundamentals. like changing direction and instincts. he's getting beat one on one with wideouts styling on him.
now I thought Prince was the better cover corner in that draft, but I certainly felt like PP would be a solid cover corner. He's been an absolute disaster at covering receivers.
....
im not even sure he can be a safety. his reaction skills are terrible. maybe taylor mays type of strong safety or something
...
Ive already addressed that. he was picked to be the best CB in the draft and I cant remember a good CB picked so high who would be so bad in his rookie season.
too early to call him a bust, I agree, but I dont really see how he'd improve his game....there's not much to scheme when you play man-to-man and getting beat nearly every time...system can't really help that
....
but they didnt pick him because of his return skills;
and why do you think he'll get better ? besides the fact its kinda hard to get worse, lol...
..
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I told TK to tell his boy that......... as in YOU. You seem to think that since the radio/bloggers say it is, than it must be true. Especially when anyone throws your brother KJ a comment.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Reminds me 100% of KJ. And look at how much faith you have in him, so why down this guy ? Your excuse for KJ was always that he is a rookie thrown into a no win situation. But i guess Peterson isnt KJ, so he just sucks unlike ur boy his rookie season :mariopalm:
Where did I put down the guy?
Those are comments from people who were like you (against KJ in his rookie season).
foo82
Waterboy
Seriously. I think you go out of your way to nitpick his arguments. It was fairly obvious what he was intending with his post here. He is comparing high drafted cb rookies and pointing out that majority of them play poorly when put in a situation that KJ was put in. His point isn't that everybody sucks, but rather KJ is coming along fine in spite of the huge learning curve most CBs go through.
Very rarely will you have a rookie/2nd year CB that absolutely lights it up. It only took Jason Allen 5 years to figure it out, and even then he is fairly average.
The front 7 & the secondary work hand in hand. The Eagles & the Vikings have 50 sacks for the regular season, we've only got 44. The Ravens, Giants, & Bengals all get more pressure on the QB than we do. But none of those teams give up less passing yards than we do.
In other words, our front seven can play as well as they are now, but we'd give up more passing yards if we had Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, & DRC.
Personally, I feel like their hatred of Kareem stems from their hatred of Kubiak & Smith. They've never forgiven Smith & Kubiak for drafting Kareem in favor of Kyle Wilson or Devin McCourty even though that looks to have been the right decision. McCourty had a great rookie season, but looks more "human" now. Kyle Wilson is still 3rd on his team's depth chart & being brought along slowly.
They were upset, that we didn't have a veteran CB to "tutor" Kj, then that we had Kj playing so much. Now that we have Jjo & Allen splitting time with Kj it is still looked at as a negative. We're finally doing the right thing by Kj so now they're upset with Kj
Doesn't make any sense.
GlassHalfFull
Hall of Fame
I would love to see the mods change this title. I feel like KJ deserves better than this.
1st impressions are huge.
1st impressions are huge.
Scooter
Funky
exactly. kareem "falling down" jackson as starting cornerback seems to have been with us forever, but he has yet to finish his sophomore season. from rookie #1 with bush to sophomore #2 with wade phillips, we have gone from the worst pass dvoa to the best. much like nnamdi with the eagles being used wrongly, we used kareem in a detrimental way and tacked on poor coaching to boot. we're seeing now what should be his rookie season, and he's exactly as advertised. solid man to man, good size and speed, weak ball instincts, strong route instincts, good discipline, doesnt have a closing burst, and is great against the run.
by next season, he'd start for near any team in the league.
