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When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Its not like this is his first year ever playing CB. I just don't get the he'll get better mentality. A lot of his issues are basic things.

Unless you're JJo, we need to upgrade our CB play.

Take a look at basically every good CB playing right now: how was their rookie year? Their second year? How is the best CB project (Petersen) of the last years playing right now? NFL is different from College - and last year the whole defense was a mess. He was thrown into an impossible situation and failed miserably. This year in a good situation he played pretty well most games - and made some mistakes. His improvement from the start of last year to where he is now is real big - so I´d say there is a real good chance that he will get even better with the right coaching and more experience.

Oh, and does anyone else notice how this thread always pops up, when he makes a mistake, but then disappers sometimes for several weeks when he plays decent? All eyes are on this kid and everybody waits for him to make a mistake - and when he does people tear him apart...
 
Kj did not have a "really good season". He had a decent season. A not poor season. He was better than last year. If you think kj was really good your expectations are low.
Kind of a knee jerk reaction, don`t you think. Yeah, he made mistakes today - one of em really big. But he had a real good season so far and still a lot to learn. Without JoJo our whole coverage looks a lot worse.

KJ is solid with some great run support and ST tackles and a weakness to the deep ball. He is already a pretty good #2 and should still improve.
 
Despite his shortcomings, I still think he's making good progress.

People still overlook this fact over and over again, but it's not like KJ is in his 4th or 5th season. He's only in his second year. The positive is that more often than not, he is "on" his man. He just needs to disrupt the passes better rather than just following his man.

Most corners don't start to shine until 3rd season, so for all those harping on him right now, at least wait until next year.
 
How many comps and yds?

I think the second one was caught for a lot of yards.

I'll watch the game again tomorrow, but I don't think the first one was caught.

Watching the game from the stands, again his coverage was very solid.

When Washington made that catch, I knew that would be the play that everyone is upset about. Nevermind all the other plays where his receiver was not considered an option.

I understand at times his receiver may be so far down on the progression the QB just never gets to him. But Kareem played a large number of snaps... 35 pass playes, not counting the three sacks & he was thrown at less than a handful of times.

That's pretty good coverage, especially for a 2nd year player.
 
Kj did not have a "really good season". He had a decent season. A not poor season. He was better than last year. If you think kj was really good your expectations are low.

I can agree with this.

It's a learning curve.
He still needs to get better.

BTW, can somebody explain to me Allen's technique on that fade route by Avery on the TD?

Leebig?
 
I think the second one was caught for a lot of yards.

I'll watch the game again tomorrow, but I don't think the first one was caught.

Watching the game from the stands, again his coverage was very solid.

When Washington made that catch, I knew that would be the play that everyone is upset about. Nevermind all the other plays where his receiver was not considered an option.

I understand at times his receiver may be so far down on the progression the QB just never gets to him. But Kareem played a large number of snaps... 35 pass playes, not counting the three sacks & he was thrown at less than a handful of times.

That's pretty good coverage, especially for a 2nd year player.

I admit that KJ had good coverage for most of the game, he looked solid. My only grip is he never ever locates the ball, even on the TD allen gave up, he was clearly beat but still located the ball and made the best attempt he could to time it and break up the play.
 
I can agree with this.

It's a learning curve.
He still needs to get better.

BTW, can somebody explain to me Allen's technique on that fade route by Avery on the TD?

Leebig?

technique was "getting beat" haha, i dunno man it looked like he was expecting a little deeper of an endzone fase route, but the WR broke it off really early and Allen could never recover.
 
I admit that KJ had good coverage for most of the game, he looked solid. My only grip is he never ever locates the ball, even on the TD allen gave up, he was clearly beat but still located the ball and made the best attempt he could to time it and break up the play.

I understand this. However, Kj is a 2nd year player. Allen is a 7th year vet & both were catches for touchdowns.
 
I understand this. However, Kj is a 2nd year player. Allen is a 7th year vet & both were catches for touchdowns.

as i stated above, allen was beat but still located the ball and did his best to time it and break up the pass, although he never had a shot to break it up anyways.
 
Kj did not have a "really good season". He had a decent season. A not poor season. He was better than last year. If you think kj was really good your expectations are low.

We need to stop judging his performance as if he will suddenly turn it on any game now. He is rated as the 76th best cover corner and last year he was near last. He is still a glaring weakness and has no ball skills. Reminds me of Jacques Reeves where he doesn't even try to play the ball.
 
We need to stop judging his performance as if he will suddenly turn it on any game now. He is rated as the 76th best cover corner and last year he was near last. He is still a glaring weakness and has no ball skills. Reminds me of Jacques Reeves where he doesn't even try to play the ball.


Well, rankings & ratings use stats like Int's & passes defended & tackles, etc.. to rank these players.

I've watched Atlanta, Cincy, New Orleans, Baltimore, & Pittsburgh after we've played them & their receivers have been going off. None of them looked like that when they played us.

Our pass rush is definitely helping, but the secondary has got to do their part as well.

Matt Hasselbeck has been spreading the ball around very well the last few weeks... he targeted Kj twice, maybe three times.
 
The guy fell down again today... sorry, but even the people on the radio said it.. "Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB in this league and will not be starting next season", they basically said he sucks. Sorry 76, you were wrong with your analysis on Kareem (Jesus Christ..you've made every excuse under the sun for this guy..you have to be running out of them by now) and this thread just needs to go away.

Kareem Jackson sucks. I ended up being wrong about Chris Myers and you're wrong here...just admit it and move on. The kid is a 1st round BUST...it happens.
 
The guy fell down again today... sorry, but even the people on the radio said it.. Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB in this league and he sucks. Sorry 76, you were wrong with your analysis on Kareem and this thread just needs to go away.

Kareem Jackson sucks. I ended up being wrong about Chris Myers and you're wrong here...just admit it and move on. The kid is a 1st round BUST...it happens.

not until he is no longer a Texan :hankpalm:
 
I can agree with this.

It's a learning curve.
He still needs to get better.

BTW, can somebody explain to me Allen's technique on that fade route by Avery on the TD?

Leebig?

IDK...why don't you explain it.. It was almost the same thing KJ did against Reggie Wayne and you had no problem explaining (excusing) that technique.
 
Which safety blew his coverage that kj man to get a bomb? 76texan, pull up ur still photos from 05 to show how the safeties were at fault. Allen didn't get a jam, got beat, td. Kj just got smoked like petey faggins vs lee evans. Point being, kj nor allen are #2 quality corners. Good qbs will always find kj or allen and expose them even as 3rd cbs. Try matching up with the 3wr sets in the nfl nowdays. In the nfl, the 3rd cb plays over 60% of the snaps. He plays more than the slb. If the texans want to be elite in terms of secondary play, kareem and allen are liabilities in the passing game.
 
Take a look at basically every good CB playing right now: how was their rookie year? Their second year? How is the best CB project (Petersen) of the last years playing right now? NFL is different from College - and last year the whole defense was a mess. He was thrown into an impossible situation and failed miserably. This year in a good situation he played pretty well most games - and made some mistakes. His improvement from the start of last year to where he is now is real big - so I´d say there is a real good chance that he will get even better with the right coaching and more experience.

Oh, and does anyone else notice how this thread always pops up, when he makes a mistake, but then disappers sometimes for several weeks when he plays decent? All eyes are on this kid and everybody waits for him to make a mistake - and when he does people tear him apart...


Are you seriously trying to explain how football works to me?

Has he improved? Yes. From falling every other to snap to a few times a game is an improvement. Call me crazy for wanting competent play at CB. He may have had a good game today but is it really a good game when the opposing team is targeting the CB that is worse than you?

Come on man...
 
I agree that KJ has improved since last year where he was placed in an impossible situation. My problem with him is that there are so many plays that he could break up if actually located the ball. I haven't really seen him turn around on deep routes. If he can start locating the ball he'll be a decent corner. Right now he's a good tackler and a below average cover corner. I imagine the 3rd season will tell us what his ceiling is and if he's already reached it, I think it is time to think about him as a safety.
 
Which safety blew his coverage that kj man to get a bomb? 76texan, pull up ur still photos from 05 to show how the safeties were at fault. Allen didn't get a jam, got beat, td. Kj just got smoked like petey faggins vs lee evans. Point being, kj nor allen are #2 quality corners. Good qbs will always find kj or allen and expose them even as 3rd cbs. Try matching up with the 3wr sets in the nfl nowdays. In the nfl, the 3rd cb plays over 60% of the snaps. He plays more than the slb. If the texans want to be elite in terms of secondary play, kareem and allen are liabilities in the passing game.

I actually think Allen can be a #2 corner in this league (as long as you have the pass rush infront of him, which we do have). You aren't going to have a probowler on each side..it just isn't going to happen. The difference between Allen and Jackson is...when Allen is beat, he actually has a little thing called MAKE UP SPEED, which you HAVE TO HAVE to start in the league and he actually makes plays on the ball occasionally, which is something Kareem Jackson can't even say much less do.

There is still a definite role for Jason Allen on this team...there needs to be a definite less role for Kareem Jackson on this team (another difference between the two). Having said all this...sadly Houston needs to address this issue AGAIN during some time in this year's draft.
 
Which safety blew his coverage that kj man to get a bomb? 76texan, pull up ur still photos from 05 to show how the safeties were at fault. Allen didn't get a jam, got beat, td. Kj just got smoked like petey faggins vs lee evans. Point being, kj nor allen are #2 quality corners. Good qbs will always find kj or allen and expose them even as 3rd cbs. Try matching up with the 3wr sets in the nfl nowdays. In the nfl, the 3rd cb plays over 60% of the snaps. He plays more than the slb. If the texans want to be elite in terms of secondary play, kareem and allen are liabilities in the passing game.

i am so sick of hearing how every time KJ gets beat its cause a safety blows his coverage, according to 76 the safties always play the other side to help the othe CB out and not KJ, now ALL OF THE SUDDEN a safety blows a play and makes KJ look bad, give me a break, its statments like this that make people rag ok KJ so much.
 
You know what kills me? How we can't cover short quick routes on short distances...mainly because we are lined up so far off the WR. I mean yeah it's better than being burned deep but geez. Ref both Allen a KJax.
 
The guy fell down again today... sorry, but even the people on the radio said it.. "Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB in this league and will not be starting next season", they basically said he sucks.

Well that settles it. If the guys on the radio says he sucks, he sucks.
 
I think the second one was caught for a lot of yards.

I'll watch the game again tomorrow, but I don't think the first one was caught.

Watching the game from the stands, again his coverage was very solid.

When Washington made that catch, I knew that would be the play that everyone is upset about. Nevermind all the other plays where his receiver was not considered an option.

I understand at times his receiver may be so far down on the progression the QB just never gets to him. But Kareem played a large number of snaps... 35 pass playes, not counting the three sacks & he was thrown at less than a handful of times.

That's pretty good coverage, especially for a 2nd year player.

I disagree with your logic.

I doubt QB's look at Kareem and think to themselves..."hmmm, I'll shy away from throwing the ball there because he is so great in coverage".

Not being thrown at has a lot to do with who the QB is throwing to and what his other options are. Their TE was doing good today. He was feeding a hot player. Maybe he felt like Kareem was better than Allen. Maybe the play design dictated where the ball was supposed to go. Maybe the QB was just reading the coverage and hitting the guy that came open due to the play they ran and the coverage we ran. Some routes just work better against certain coverages.

When we played the Falcons just about every pass on their last drive went Kareem's was despite the fact that he had tight coverage. But Matt Ryan obviously saw something coverage wise (1 on 1, Julio is a good target, maybe they were doubling Roddy White, Julio was closer to the sideline and could get out of bounds if a completion was made).

Also, you are forgetting the play where Kareem slipped and the WR was piss wide open behind him and hassleback just threw a bad ball.

Brice McCain has had a pretty good season at the nickel spot, but QB's still throw his way.

I think you are putting too much stock into not a lot of balls being thrown his way especially when the few times the ball does come his way he looks less than spectacular.

When Revis is on Andre, we still throw the ball there because Andre is a beast.

There have been other games where Andre hasn't gotten many looks and that may or may not have anything to do with the CB he's facing playing tight coverage.
 
Well that settles it. If the guys on the radio says he sucks, he sucks.

Greg Cossell, the guy with all the coaches' tapes in the world said before the season that he believed KJ will be a quality CB.

I also mentioned somebody who was with Lance Z talking about "somebody with coach tapes" credited Jackson's plays with helping the front 7 do their job.

On the other point, I was talking about the "pros" like in "the media".


well tell ur boy that
 
I can agree with this.

It's a learning curve.
He still needs to get better.

BTW, can somebody explain to me Allen's technique on that fade route by Avery on the TD?

Leebig?

At least we can agree on something.

Regarding the differences between the fade routes that they gave up for TD's ...

I don't have a vivid memory of the Colts game as I was in vegas and did not catch the whole game.

But if my memory is semi correct it seemed that allen located the ball while Kareem never did. Also, The throw that Hasselback made was the main reason for the TD whereas Wayne flat out beat KJ.


I understand this. However, Kj is a 2nd year player. Allen is a 7th year vet & both were catches for touchdowns.

KJ is our first round pick. Allen is considered a bust.

I don't know why the amount of time in the league matters if the object is to win now.

You have said yourself that you don't think KJ is a starting corner...yet...

I actually disagree with that. He is a starting corner...He's just not a great one or a very, very good one. He is decent. He is often ok. He is also sometimes bad.

I think we can do better than Allen and Kareem at that position, but if we just cannot find a guy that can challenge those guys as starters then Kareem will do. He will not be a complete embarrassment, but he will not be a guy that you pencil in as your starter for the next few years either.

CB2 is a position that we should be actively trying to upgrade on defense. If we just can't do it then I won't complain about Kareem being the starter because I do expect him to get better. How much better is anyone's guess. You don't know that he will develop into a good starting corner...that is just an educated guess, but a guess none the less....His lacking of the ability to locate and make plays on the ball is very troubling and for that reason alone I think we need to look for an upgrade at the position.

I'd rather have a Carlos Rogers type of corner that has great coverage, makes plays on the ball but drops picks rather than a corner that struggles to locate the ball and stick with his man on deep routes.

The guy is still splitting time in his second year. That doesn't scream "he'll be a good starter in the future to me"...

If Kareem is the starter next year he needs to legitimately earn it. We need to bring in another good player there that can challenge to be a starter because really we don't have anyone else. No other real ballers at the position besides Joseph.
 
Well that settles it. If the guys on the radio says he sucks, he sucks.

LMAO...yeah, nice job at pulling one sentence out of my post like it was the "talking heads on the radio" that led me to my opinion. :rolleyes: all they did was see what we all see and repeat it....Kareem Jackson SUCKS. N.D. Kalu said it..I'll take his opinion over 76. Get off of it already, you're holding on to the mast of a sinking ship...get in the freaking life boat already and seperate yourself from this topic.

Seriously I can't believe this thread has gone 27 pages...like it takes 27 pages to realize Kareem Jackson sucks.
 
Carr bombed I agree about not having pro bowlers on each side. The thing about allen is he was drafted as a hybrid. Huff,allen and whitner were all drafted as safeties with corner like abilities to combat the Y-Flex te. In miami, they had a terrible cb population, but laer they drafted davis and smith and inproved it. Allen is a very athletic guy who struggles in off coverage. I believe if they played him like seattle plays their big corners, he wuld play better. Jackson has good initial coverage until the qb realizes its really not that god of cverage.
 
Its not like this is his first year ever playing CB. I just don't get the he'll get better mentality. A lot of his issues are basic things.

Unless you're JJo, we need to upgrade our CB play.

I agree. I don't why it is Ok to say that he gets 3 years to learn how to look back for the ball and make a TRUE effort to break the ball up, instead of poking an arm into the guy's bread basket and making a blind swipe at it.

Upgrade at CB2 would be welcomed. Lots of holes, actually. We need help on o-line in terms of depth. WR is a need. QB seems to be a need if Schaub can't come back decently...is Yates enough if not?

Offense is the priority and CB2 would be the biggest need on defense, IMO.
 
IDK...why don't you explain it.. It was almost the same thing KJ did against Reggie Wayne and you had no problem explaining (excusing) that technique.

Ouch. That syringe of a post you just made was full of truth serum.

We don't agree on the Rockets, but we have a stake with each other on THIS topic, for sure.

Hasselbeck threw a laser pass to the back shoulder of the WR, and Allen was probably expecting a lofted pass in that situation. The pass to Reggie Wayne took forever to come down, as did the Julio Jones pass play, and both times KJ was bracing himself against the WR and staring up at the guy's face...instead of locating the ball.

I just don't think KJ wants to play the ball in the air, he wants to play the man's body language (which is why he gets torched on slant-and-go routes a lot). If KJ can sense the ball is about to get to the WR, he is habitually sticking an arm into the guy's bread basket and attempting a swipe. He's very REACTIVE to those deep passes, instead of being PROACTIVE by finding the ball in the air.
 
Are you seriously trying to explain how football works to me?

Has he improved? Yes. From falling every other to snap to a few times a game is an improvement. Call me crazy for wanting competent play at CB. He may have had a good game today but is it really a good game when the opposing team is targeting the CB that is worse than you?

Come on man...

I am not trying to explain how football works - I am just saying that the learning curve for CBs is a lot steeper than for most other positions. And yes, he has improved a lot and there is no reason to believe he won`t improve more.

Let`s back up a few games - the CB on the other side was JoJo, clearly a better CB. Still KJ wasn`t targeted a lot this season and hasn`t allowed a lot of catches. So yes, he is having a good game, because the opposing team is targeting a better CB than he is, or safeties/LB/nickels.

He is not an elite CB - he is not one of the 30 best CBs in the league - but right now he is a very serviceable #2CB splitting time with another very serviceable #2CB.

All I´m saying is: don`t overreact on every mistake he makes...

Oh, and by the way: how often did he fall down the last 5 games or so? I remember... 1 stumble.
 
i've read enough to ignore both sides. we have a 2A and 2B.

kareem is a physical man to man cornerback in his second year and is coming into his own. now with solid coaching he's become a true corner and very much a starter in man coverage who excels in press and run support. lots of work still needed to recognize steps, and i worry about his film study. kareem took a ton of hell last season, he's getting a split decision this season because of his inabilitiy to recognize and locate both routes and the ball in flight. loses focus when not on the receiver and struggles in most zone settings, will never be called a playmaker.

allen is a very poor man's asante samuel. below average man skills, almost no bump, a complete mess on intermediate routes. can read immediate routes as often as not, but cant recover from initial jump. rarely a factor on shorter routes, and easily game planned for. lockdown on long routes and a playmaker if able to see the quarterback (cover 3 and slide 2 specialist).

that's my scouting report, and while i'm hardly a kareem jackson fan, i dont think he's getting a fair shake here. his growth is obvious, but without a direct offseason with wade, i dont think we've even scraped the surface of what kareem brings to wade's press defense. i say now that he's going to be special next season.
 
My scouting report

Although Kareem has improved, he still stinks and will probably continue to stink next yr and the next yr etc..... (Jacques Reeves kind of stink)
 
KJ is a safety, he's Glover Quin lite. Nickel corner at best. Brandon Harris wasn't exactly setting the world on fire either. McCain is topped out as a 4th guy. Jason Allen is getting abused. Jonathan Joseph really ties this group together.
 
KJ is a safety, he's Glover Quin lite. Nickel corner at best. Brandon Harris wasn't exactly setting the world on fire either. McCain is topped out as a 4th guy. Jason Allen is getting abused. Jonathan Joseph really ties this group together.

You make it sound as if we`d have one of the worst secondaries in the league... most CBs make mistakes now and then. As a #2 both KJ and Allen are alright and McCain has had some great games as a Nickel. Harris needs more time.
 
images


Still?
 
You make it sound as if we`d have one of the worst secondaries in the league... most CBs make mistakes now and then. As a #2 both KJ and Allen are alright and McCain has had some great games as a Nickel. Harris needs more time.

Harris may need more time next season, but not in the play-offs, u did see that TD he gave up right. He did make a good effort to break up the pass but he tried.
 
Harris may need more time next season, but not in the play-offs, u did see that TD he gave up right. He did make a good effort to break up the pass but he tried.

That wasn't Harris' man. That was Demps man, with another safety (I forgot who) just standing around. If anything what we saw from Harris was exceptional make up speed, and he even located the ball and stuck his arm in there.

I don't know enough about him outside of college, but I liked that play.
 
That wasn't Harris' man. That was Demps man, with another safety (I forgot who) just standing around. If anything what we saw from Harris was exceptional make up speed, and he even located the ball and stuck his arm in there.

I don't know enough about him outside of college, but I liked that play.

not to take anything away from harris but the WR did stop turn around and jump up, plenty of time for harris to tr to make a play. And yes it did look like harris passed the WR off to demps and demps failed, harris tried to recover and wasnt in time.
 
I am not trying to explain how football works - I am just saying that the learning curve for CBs is a lot steeper than for most other positions. And yes, he has improved a lot and there is no reason to believe he won`t improve more.

Let`s back up a few games - the CB on the other side was JoJo, clearly a better CB. Still KJ wasn`t targeted a lot this season and hasn`t allowed a lot of catches. So yes, he is having a good game, because the opposing team is targeting a better CB than he is, or safeties/LB/nickels.

He is not an elite CB - he is not one of the 30 best CBs in the league - but right now he is a very serviceable #2CB splitting time with another very serviceable #2CB.

All I´m saying is: don`t overreact on every mistake he makes...

Oh, and by the way: how often did he fall down the last 5 games or so? I remember... 1 stumble.

And this pretty much sums up how I feel about the matter. It feels like you guys are wanting way too much. KJ does not suck as much as everyone claims. If he did suck, he would be targeted a lot more. He just does not have any ball skills.
 
And this pretty much sums up how I feel about the matter. It feels like you guys are wanting way too much. KJ does not suck as much as everyone claims. If he did suck, he would be targeted a lot more. He just does not have any ball skills.

how many sacks and hurries does our defense have ??? You think we we are 1st - 2nd in passing yards allowed due to the secondary ? No u should thank the front 7 for that.
 
damn i thought it was just me. But on inside the game Spencer Tillman is breaking down the fade route where allen gave up a TD and he says

"That false inside step, he (Allen) does identify and gets his head around which Kareem Jackson struggles with"

What amused me is i have always thought KJ never locates the ball but i have never really heard anyone call KJ out for it before.

and then the 4:37 mark they call KJ out again.
 
Twenty-eight pages and no one has addressed the CB's other responsibility: Run support. The reason Jackson starts is he's better on run support. Way better.

The long run by CJ that nearly resulted in a TD was to Allen's side. I watched it twice. He faded from run support. Later, the Titans ran that same play to the right with Jackson on the field. He knifed in and upended CJ for a loss.

Jackson is playing as much - maybe more - for his run support as his coverage skills. Whether Allen is a better cover corner is debatable. He kinda looks to be but it really ain't by that much. But if he's not going to maintain his run contain responsibility and let RBs turn the corner for big yards, that's just as bad as giving up a big pass play.
 
Twenty-eight pages and no one has addressed the CB's other responsibility: Run support. The reason Jackson starts is he's better on run support. Way better.

The long run by CJ that nearly resulted in a TD was to Allen's side. I watched it twice. He faded from run support. Later, the Titans ran that same play to the right with Jackson on the field. He knifed in and upended CJ for a loss.

Jackson is playing as much - maybe more - for his run support as his coverage skills. Whether Allen is a better cover corner is debatable. He kinda looks to be but it really ain't by that much. But if he's not going to maintain his run contain responsibility and let RBs turn the corner for big yards, that's just as bad as giving up a big pass play.

Touche!! That's a pretty good point!
 
how many sacks and hurries does our defense have ??? You think we we are 1st - 2nd in passing yards allowed due to the secondary ? No u should thank the front 7 for that.

So....you are bitching that even though we are 1st/2nd in passing yards allowed about our CB#2? So basically you want a shutdown corner on both sides for you to be happy?
 
Twenty-eight pages and no one has addressed the CB's other responsibility: Run support. The reason Jackson starts is he's better on run support. Way better.

The long run by CJ that nearly resulted in a TD was to Allen's side. I watched it twice. He faded from run support. Later, the Titans ran that same play to the right with Jackson on the field. He knifed in and upended CJ for a loss.

Jackson is playing as much - maybe more - for his run support as his coverage skills. Whether Allen is a better cover corner is debatable. He kinda looks to be but it really ain't by that much. But if he's not going to maintain his run contain responsibility and let RBs turn the corner for big yards, that's just as bad as giving up a big pass play.

I totally agree............exactly why he would better serve as a nickel. Too bad that would be a heck of a position for a 1st rounder.
 
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