When do we end the Kareem experiment?

[GP]

Ellis... do you not have unrealistic expectations though? CB/QB are the two hardest positions to come into the NFL with, I say we have to give him 3-4 years and see what we end up with.

I don't think I want to contemplate giving up on Kareem Jackson four years into his NFL life here. If that happens, we messed up in the first round of the 2009 draft...and we wasted four years trying to see if he grows into the role.

IMO, this comes down to the difference between Wade Phillips picking defensive players (in 2010) and his predecessors in the previous drafts. What's odd is that we've done fairly well with LB draft picks (Cushing, Ryans) in the pre-Phillips era, but the d-line and the secondary have always been what I feel a bit deficient in PURE talent at their positions.

Of course, this also begs the old "is it the player, the position, or the coaching?" argument too. (Sigh).

With Phillips at d-coord, it feel alike we have a great talent evaluator AND a great d-coord. So we're getting the right player, at the right position, and the coaching is top-notch too. Triple threat. Before now? Hit or miss. Risk taking. Gambling on guys. I think Kareem was a gamble; he needs to be a nickel CB and nobody wants to hurt his feelings with that sort of talk. But it is what it is--He does well when he's not alone, he's a great nickel guy IMO...because he can break off and go attack the shallow stuff that drifts his way. Staying one-on-one? Not so much.

 

[EllisUnit]

I don't think I want to contemplate giving up on Kareem Jackson four years into his NFL life here. If that happens, we messed up in the first round of the 2009 draft...and we wasted four years trying to see if he grows into the role.

IMO, this comes down to the difference between Wade Phillips picking defensive players (in 2010) and his predecessors in the previous drafts. What's odd is that we've done fairly well with LB draft picks (Cushing, Ryans) in the pre-Phillips era, but the d-line and the secondary have always been what I feel a bit deficient in PURE talent at their positions.

Of course, this also begs the old "is it the player, the position, or the coaching?" argument too. (Sigh).

With Phillips at d-coord, it feel alike we have a great talent evaluator AND a great d-coord. So we're getting the right player, at the right position, and the coaching is top-notch too. Triple threat. Before now? Hit or miss. Risk taking. Gambling on guys. I think Kareem was a gamble; he needs to be a nickel CB and nobody wants to hurt his feelings with that sort of talk. But it is what it is--He does well when he's not alone, he's a great nickel guy IMO...because he can break off and go attack the shallow stuff that drifts his way. Staying one-on-one? Not so much.

I think pre philips we did "OK" on the D-Line. We got Mario, and Barwin. The one spot we have greatly stuggled in drafting is DT. We have never in our history drafted a good DT. Seth Payne was a FA, but he was the best we've had that i can remember. Same goes for CB we have problems evaluating quality CBs, the only descent one we have drafted was D. Rob.


Now Offense is where we have been successful.

AJ, Foster (UDFA), D. Brown, Owen Daniels, Joel Dreesen, Eric Winston, Domanick Davis, Chester Pitts,

I know that these are a mix between the casserly and Smith era but it goes to show you that overall we have not been a very good drafting team IMO. Maybe been better at getting offensive players in the past simply because we have never had a REAL D.C

 

[thunderkyss]

I think KJ has greatly improved this year, i think the front 7 has helped KJ a lot this year as well. I just hate to hear B.S excuses/assumptions by certain people, everytime he messes up. He needs to take responsibilty every time he messes up, it will make him better in the long run IMO.

Can you admit that sometimes when it "looks" like Kj got burned, it was because his help wasn't there?

That whole thing with 76 started because he picked a few plays where it "looks" like Kj got burned, but 76 was trying to point out that on those particular plays it was his help that was no where to be found.

Sure, they were his opinion of what the coverage was. & he didn't show anything where Kj flat out got beat (I understood his reason for doing it that way was because we could all agree on those plays because they were obvious, he fell down, he got smacked by Roy Williams, or something else that was obvious).

Just like the 34 yard pass to Wayne in that final drive. I thought it was man coverage. I thought Kj got beat. 76Texans said Demps was supposed to have inside leverage.

Kubiak (on the Kubiak show the following Monday) confirmed that wasn't Kj's play to make.... that Kj was actually trying to cover for another player.

(basically what I'm saying here, is that 76 never set out to say Kj never made a mistake. He chose those plays to specifically show that some plays where it looks like Kj messed up, it was his help that didn't show up)

 

[thunderkyss]

IMO, this comes down to the difference between Wade Phillips picking defensive players (in 2010) and his predecessors in the previous drafts. What's odd is that we've done fairly well with LB draft picks (Cushing, Ryans) in the pre-Phillips era, but the d-line and the secondary have always been what I feel a bit deficient in PURE talent at their positions.

I don't think there's much difference between the players that were picked before Wade or after...... they all look the same to me. JJ Watt is known to be a high motor guy, but so is Connor. So was Amobi. So is Antonio (I know he isn't a draft pick).

Mario may not have been known as a high motor guy, but with the #1 overall, are you saying Wade would have had us pick D'brickshaw instead? Reggie? Aj Hawk? I think that's far fetched.

All the draft picks were "good character" team leaders one way or another & that hasn't changed.

Would Kubiak have drafted JJ Watt? Probably not, but that was because we were in a 4-3 & we already spent so many 1st round picks on DL..... But whoever Kubiak would have picked he would have been someone in the same mold.

Wade appears to be happy with what Smithiak brought in for NT with Cody & Mitchell (who also had a great game vs Indy), he loves Cushing & Meco, He thinks Quin is a solid player (possible pro bowler if I remember correctly).

FA wise, I think McNair had as much to do with getting Jjo & Manning as Wade did. I may be delusional but I think Smith was given an ultimatum to get one of the top Corners in FA.

 

[thunderkyss]

Now Offense is where we have been successful.

AJ, Foster (UDFA), D. Brown, Owen Daniels, Joel Dreesen, Eric Winston, Domanick Davis, Chester Pitts,

I know that these are a mix between the casserly and Smith era but it goes to show you that overall we have not been a very good drafting team IMO. Maybe been better at getting offensive players in the past simply because we have never had a REAL D.C

I think with Wade, we'll hit on more of those mid round picks on defense than before. I know it seems like we did well with Zac Diles & Glover Quin, Maybe even Mitchell. But I think someone like Babin would have fit very well with what Wade wants to do. Babin (imo) was another high motor guy, just didn't know what to do with it.

 

[EllisUnit]

Can you admit that sometimes when it "looks" like Kj got burned, it was because his help wasn't there?

That whole thing with 76 started because he picked a few plays where it "looks" like Kj got burned, but 76 was trying to point out that on those particular plays it was his help that was no where to be found.

Sure, they were his opinion of what the coverage was. & he didn't show anything where Kj flat out got beat (I understood his reason for doing it that way was because we could all agree on those plays because they were obvious, he fell down, he got smacked by Roy Williams, or something else that was obvious).

Just like the 34 yard pass to Wayne in that final drive. I thought it was man coverage. I thought Kj got beat. 76Texans said Demps was supposed to have inside leverage.

Kubiak (on the Kubiak show the following Monday) confirmed that wasn't Kj's play to make.... that Kj was actually trying to cover for another player.

(basically what I'm saying here, is that 76 never set out to say Kj never made a mistake. He chose those plays to specifically show that some plays where it looks like Kj messed up, it was his help that didn't show up)

My problem is that it is what 76 "says" most of his proff/arguments are assumptions. That dont mean they are correct by any means. And also think about this they are KJs "HELP". From my knowledge help means to make YOUR job easier, not to do it all for you, but the fact remains it was still KJs job. If i am working i dont ask the help to do ALL the work like it seems some on here ask for all of KJs help to do. I do everything i can and dont depend on someone else, and i wont blame them if the job doesnt get done because it was MY job they were just there to help.

Thats my problem with taking it easy on KJ cause he didnt have very good "Help"

 

[Rey]

To be honest I don't pay attention to what 76 says anymore and ellis I'd suggest you do the same. No offense just don't care for his analysis. Doesn't make sense for you to have the same argument over and over with someone that you characterize the way you do. Kareem doesn't suck but we can improve at that position. Either he can get better or we can find a better player. His ball skills and positioning when the ball is thrown leaves a lot to be desired

 

[leebigeztx]

@PFF_NateJahnke@leebigez Has allowed 29 of 49 balls thrown his way to be caught for 458 yards and 4 TD. He's had 1 interception, and 4 passes defensed

This is response to a tweet I sent to pro football focus. They're the absolute best because they watch every play,every player. You can ask about any vital stat in football and they can answer it. 29 of 49 is 59% at 15.9 yds per completion.

 

[76Texan]

@PFF_NateJahnke@leebigez Has allowed 29 of 49 balls thrown his way to be caught for 458 yards and 4 TD. He's had 1 interception, and 4 passes defensed

This is response to a tweet I sent to pro football focus. They're the absolute best because they watch every play,every player. You can ask about any vital stat in football and they can answer it. 29 of 49 is 59% at 15.9 yds per completion.

I thought about not posting this, because people may take it the wrong way.
But what the heck, Rey is not going to read it, so anybody who doesn't like it could disregard it just the same (even if they happen to read it.)


PFF do a pretty good job overall regarding team stats.
But there were times they were simply incorrect regarding individuals.
For example, one time I mentioned that they charted the wrong personnel that was on the field on certain plays.
(They mistook Adibi for Diles on a couple of plays a few years ago, for example.)


I know that they charged the 51yd pass to Torrey Smith to KJ.
I wouldn't be surprised if they charged the 34yd catch by Wayne to KJ as well.


A couple years ago, one of the charters (I remember vaguely his name was Karl or something like that) joined this board for a while to get feedbacks.
There might have been two guys charting the game at that time.
Or maybe it was just him.
At any rate, he said he spent about 13-14 hours on each game.
(I imagine they had to put out the stats weekly so they couldn't afford any more time than that.)
I think each of them chart a few different games per week.
At any rate, I'm not sure there's enough time for them to do a thorough job.
(They don't have time to check with Kubiak, for example, to know what kind of coverage we were in.)

I spent at least twice more the time than that during the week (many times between 30-40 hours.)
In the off-season, I went back to all the games.
I spent at least 70 hours per game each of the previous 3 years.


I would put up my overall record regarding Texans players against anybody, even the pros.
Not to say that I'm right or anything, but I believe I'm very close or pretty close on all players (in the long run - on the players that we can actually see in action a fair number of times; for college players I'd like to watch at least 6 of their games, preferrably 9, preferrably against good competition).
My batting average is up there (sorry, I really really don't mean to brag - people who knows me sees me as a very humble guy.)
But you can go down the list on my take about the players (whether by starting a thread or by joining the discussion).
You can go back to the archive for as far as you like.
Check your own record vs. mine, then tell me who makes more sense.


On a side note, there's this one thing I didn't quite get to when I worked on the thread "A glimpse of Wade's defense throughout the years".
(Or maybe I did say it).
That when I watched the inverted cover 2, I thought to myself, hmm... this could bode well for Jason Allen.
It was then when I said I wouldn't write him off.
My head is in the right place much more than some of you guys think.
I'm not blinded by hatred.
More than one time I've already said that I don't have an ego.
I don't need to be right.
I do this simply because I love the game.

 

[thunderkyss]

@PFF_NateJahnke@leebigez Has allowed 29 of 49 balls thrown his way to be caught for 458 yards and 4 TD. He's had 1 interception, and 4 passes defensed

This is response to a tweet I sent to pro football focus. They're the absolute best because they watch every play,every player. You can ask about any vital stat in football and they can answer it. 29 of 49 is 59% at 15.9 yds per completion.

That pretty much falls in line with what I think about Kj, except it doesn't take into account how many snaps he played on passing downs. Can you find out how many passing snaps that number accounts for?

My contention is that his coverage is usually very solid. However, if the ball goes his way, since he has such poor ball skills, it's a completion more times than not.

Again, on most downs, the QB doesn't throw his way. Think about the New Orleans game, that was Drew Brees & a pretty good receiving core all around. It wasn't till the 3rd Qtr, that Brees even challenged him. Then it was on & Drew learned what I learned. Even if he looks covered... he's open.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

fwiw

“Joseph has been exactly what they needed,” a scout told me this week. “After a horrible first-round draft pick in 2010 in Kareem Jackson, they made up for it with Joseph. He is fast, athletic and can match up with most receivers in the AFC. He plays bigger than his size (5-foot-11, 191 pounds), because he has good functional strength.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth

 

[Texan_Bill]

......functional strength.

"Functional strength"?

This might be why I didn't make it to the NFL. My 'non-functional' strength hurt my chances.

 

[EllisUnit]

I thought about not posting this, because people may take it the wrong way.
But what the heck, Rey is not going to read it, so anybody who doesn't like it could disregard it just the same (even if they happen to read it.)


PFF do a pretty good job overall regarding team stats.
But there were times they were simply incorrect regarding individuals.
For example, one time I mentioned that they charted the wrong personnel that was on the field on certain plays.
(They mistook Adibi for Diles on a couple of plays a few years ago, for example.)


I know that they charged the 51yd pass to Torrey Smith to KJ.
I wouldn't be surprised if they charged the 34yd catch by Wayne to KJ as well.


A couple years ago, one of the charters (I remember vaguely his name was Karl or something like that) joined this board for a while to get feedbacks.
There might have been two guys charting the game at that time.
Or maybe it was just him.
At any rate, he said he spent about 13-14 hours on each game.
(I imagine they had to put out the stats weekly so they couldn't afford any more time than that.)
I think each of them chart a few different games per week.
At any rate, I'm not sure there's enough time for them to do a thorough job.
(They don't have time to check with Kubiak, for example, to know what kind of coverage we were in.)

I spent at least twice more the time than that during the week (many times between 30-40 hours.)
In the off-season, I went back to all the games.
I spent at least 70 hours per game each of the previous 3 years.


I would put up my overall record regarding Texans players against anybody, even the pros.
Not to say that I'm right or anything, but I believe I'm very close or pretty close on all players (in the long run - on the players that we can actually see in action a fair number of times; for college players I'd like to watch at least 6 of their games, preferrably 9, preferrably against good competition).
My batting average is up there (sorry, I really really don't mean to brag - people who knows me sees me as a very humble guy.)
But you can go down the list on my take about the players (whether by starting a thread or by joining the discussion).
You can go back to the archive for as far as you like.
Check your own record vs. mine, then tell me who makes more sense.


On a side note, there's this one thing I didn't quite get to when I worked on the thread "A glimpse of Wade's defense throughout the years".
(Or maybe I did say it).
That when I watched the inverted cover 2, I thought to myself, hmm... this could bode well for Jason Allen.
It was then when I said I wouldn't write him off.
My head is in the right place much more than some of you guys think.
I'm not blinded by hatred.
More than one time I've already said that I don't have an ego.
I don't need to be right.
I do this simply because I love the game.

Why shouldnt they of charged the 34 yard catch to wayne on KJ, it was KJs man.

 

[76Texan]

Why shouldnt they of charged the 34 yard catch to wayne on KJ, it was KJs man.

That same article Kaiser Toro quoted can answer your question:

"Pro Football Focus rates Joseph as just the 10th best cornerback in the league at this point. The website can’t always know coverage assignments"

 

[76Texan]

Why shouldnt they of charged the 34 yard catch to wayne on KJ, it was KJs man.

3-3-PIT 27 (1:57) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left to M.Wallace to HST 33 for 40 yards (D.Manning). P5
Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:48.

Ask them who they charged this pass to, Manning or Allen.
This was before halftime.

Without Manning, this would have been a 73-yd TD pass.
Whose man was Wallace?

 

[EllisUnit]

3-3-PIT 27 (1:57) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass deep left to M.Wallace to HST 33 for 40 yards (D.Manning). P5
Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:48.

Ask them who they charged this pass to, Manning or Allen.
This was before halftime.

Without Manning, this would have been a 73-yd TD pass.
Whose man was Wallace?

do you always know what coverage we are in, or do you look at it and assume what each guys assignment should of been. And i am at work so no i cant look and see who was wallaces man, who was it, i'm assuming JoJo, since he was on him most of the game.

Plus i am talking about the 34 yard catch by Wayne, was that or was that not KJs man ?

 

[El Tejano]

Can anyone tell me how many TDs Jason Allen has given up? I'm starting to like him. He has as many INTs as Joseph and I know he's been thrown to more.

 

[Imatexanfan]

I'm just gonna hate it when we let this POS go he gonna play his ass off on another team and become a star...

 

[leebigeztx]

I thought about not posting this, because people may take it the wrong way.
But what the heck, Rey is not going to read it, so anybody who doesn't like it could disregard it just the same (even if they happen to read it.)


PFF do a pretty good job overall regarding team stats.
But there were times they were simply incorrect regarding individuals.
For example, one time I mentioned that they charted the wrong personnel that was on the field on certain plays.
(They mistook Adibi for Diles on a couple of plays a few years ago, for example.)


I know that they charged the 51yd pass to Torrey Smith to KJ.
I wouldn't be surprised if they charged the 34yd catch by Wayne to KJ as well.


A couple years ago, one of the charters (I remember vaguely his name was Karl or something like that) joined this board for a while to get feedbacks.
There might have been two guys charting the game at that time.
Or maybe it was just him.
At any rate, he said he spent about 13-14 hours on each game.
(I imagine they had to put out the stats weekly so they couldn't afford any more time than that.)
I think each of them chart a few different games per week.
At any rate, I'm not sure there's enough time for them to do a thorough job.
(They don't have time to check with Kubiak, for example, to know what kind of coverage we were in.)

I spent at least twice more the time than that during the week (many times between 30-40 hours.)
In the off-season, I went back to all the games.
I spent at least 70 hours per game each of the previous 3 years.


I would put up my overall record regarding Texans players against anybody, even the pros.
Not to say that I'm right or anything, but I believe I'm very close or pretty close on all players (in the long run - on the players that we can actually see in action a fair number of times; for college players I'd like to watch at least 6 of their games, preferrably 9, preferrably against good competition).
My batting average is up there (sorry, I really really don't mean to brag - people who knows me sees me as a very humble guy.)
But you can go down the list on my take about the players (whether by starting a thread or by joining the discussion).
You can go back to the archive for as far as you like.
Check your own record vs. mine, then tell me who makes more sense.


On a side note, there's this one thing I didn't quite get to when I worked on the thread "A glimpse of Wade's defense throughout the years".
(Or maybe I did say it).
That when I watched the inverted cover 2, I thought to myself, hmm... this could bode well for Jason Allen.
It was then when I said I wouldn't write him off.
My head is in the right place much more than some of you guys think.
I'm not blinded by hatred.
More than one time I've already said that I don't have an ego.
I don't need to be right.
I do this simply because I love the game.

I wouldve put my record against anyones a couple of yrs ago when i had access to coaches tape. Unless you have access to coaches tape like these guys do, i highly doubt that your record will be as good as their record no matter how many hrs of still frame you watch. Thats like saying you can out do someone like synergy sports and i don't buy that one.

 

[EllisUnit]

Can anyone tell me how many TDs Jason Allen has given up? I'm starting to like him. He has as many INTs as Joseph and I know he's been thrown to more.

oh lord now ur gonna get one of 76 long rants started, but i feel ya on that. As everyone already knows.

 

[leebigeztx]

That pretty much falls in line with what I think about Kj, except it doesn't take into account how many snaps he played on passing downs. Can you find out how many passing snaps that number accounts for?

My contention is that his coverage is usually very solid. However, if the ball goes his way, since he has such poor ball skills, it's a completion more times than not.

Again, on most downs, the QB doesn't throw his way. Think about the New Orleans game, that was Drew Brees & a pretty good receiving core all around. It wasn't till the 3rd Qtr, that Brees even challenged him. Then it was on & Drew learned what I learned. Even if he looks covered... he's open.

Pretty much. His initial coverage is solid, but when the qb allow the play to expand, the wr creates seperation and he can't make any distance at all. I don't mean to pick on 76texan because i know he put in work through his analysis, but help doesn't mean leave you guy uncovered. There isnt a safety in the nfl who can make up for a cb who is beat quick and incresing the gap especially when there are other routes going on at the same time. Maybe they should just run a bracket on kj's man everytime to make the qb go somewhere else. If the play expands, his man is going to get uncovered. As i said, reeves had poor ball skills, but he had make up speed supreme. he would look burnt, but by the time the ball got there, he would knock the ball down. his last yr in houst. he only gave up like 42% completion and 0 tds.

 

[EllisUnit]

Pretty much. His initial coverage is solid, but when the qb allow the play to expand, the wr creates seperation and he can't make any distance at all. I don't mean to pick on 76texan because i know he put in work through his analysis, but help doesn't mean leave you guy uncovered. There isnt a safety in the nfl who can make up for a cb who is beat quick and incresing the gap especially when there are other routes going on at the same time. Maybe they should just run a bracket on kj's man everytime to make the qb go somewhere else. If the play expands, his man is going to get uncovered. As i said, reeves had poor ball skills, but he had make up speed supreme. he would look burnt, but by the time the ball got there, he would knock the ball down. his last yr in houst. he only gave up like 42% completion and 0 tds.

i said when that let reeves go that it was a mistake, and it was. He had pretty good coverage skills, and i think him and jojo would of been a good 1-2 punch.

 

[leebigeztx]

i said when that let reeves go that it was a mistake, and it was. He had pretty good coverage skills, and i think him and jojo would of been a good 1-2 punch.

they had the 13th taed defense despite starting off like garbage. They let robinson go and reeves and turned into the worse pass defense in the league.

 

[thunderkyss]

Plus i am talking about the 34 yard catch by Wayne, was that or was that not KJs man ?

When you get a chance to listen to the Gary Kubiak Show, Gary said that wasn't on Kj.

There isnt a safety in the nfl who can make up for a cb who is beat quick and incresing the gap especially when there are other routes going on at the same time.

There was a play to Steve Smith during the Carolina game, Jjo is on Smith at the line & Manning was back deep. Jjo allowed Smith to beat him on the inside & trailed by a good distance. Manning picked Smith up & ran with him into the endzone.

Charles Davis (?? who covered the game) talked about how good the coverage was from both Manning & Jjo.... even though Jjo trailed by a good bit & was outside of Smith. He quickly explained if Smith had broke his route back outside or short, Jjo would have made the play, or prevented Smith from making a catch (easy catch).... but had he went deep, as he did Manning prevented Smith from being open.

Had Manning bit on a play fake or just not been there, as Demps wasn't on the 34 yard catch, Joseph would have looked just as bad because his "help" wasn't there. His help was supposed to cover the deep inside routes.... Jjo was supposed to prevent Smith from releasing outside & cover the underneath routes.

A wide receiver has so many options available to him. CBs aren't allowed to touch them beyond 5 yards. It is impossible to cover a WR man-to-man for too long in certain situations.

On that 34 yard catch, Kj makes no attempt to stay on Wayne's hip, leading me to believe it was not man coverage & he was supposed to cover the outside & force Wayne inside...... you can see Demps run up for the run fake, leaving Wayne wide open.

i said when that let reeves go that it was a mistake, and it was. He had pretty good coverage skills, and i think him and jojo would of been a good 1-2 punch.

I can agree with this.... they already let Dunta go & they missed on Bodden.... didn't make sense, unless Reeves was bad for the locker room.

 

[EllisUnit]

When you get a chance to listen to the Gary Kubiak Show, Gary said that wasn't on Kj.



There was a play to Steve Smith during the Carolina game, Jjo is on Smith at the line & Manning was back deep. Jjo allowed Smith to beat him on the inside & trailed by a good distance. Manning picked Smith up & ran with him into the endzone.

Charles Davis (?? who covered the game) talked about how good the coverage was from both Manning & Jjo.... even though Jjo trailed by a good bit & was outside of Smith. He quickly explained if Smith had broke his route back outside or short, Jjo would have made the play, or prevented Smith from making a catch (easy catch).... but had he went deep, as he did Manning prevented Smith from being open.

Had Manning bit on a play fake or just not been there, as Demps wasn't on the 34 yard catch, Joseph would have looked just as bad because his "help" wasn't there. His help was supposed to cover the deep inside routes.... Jjo was supposed to prevent Smith from releasing outside & cover the underneath routes.

A wide receiver has so many options available to him. CBs aren't allowed to touch them beyond 5 yards. It is impossible to cover a WR man-to-man for too long in certain situations.

On that 34 yard catch, Kj makes no attempt to stay on Wayne's hip, leading me to believe it was not man coverage & he was supposed to cover the outside & force Wayne inside...... you can see Demps run up for the run fake, leaving Wayne wide open.



I can agree with this.... they already let Dunta go & they missed on Bodden.... didn't make sense, unless Reeves was bad for the locker room.

i have heard kubiak KJ, before. i dont know how it wasnt his fault, it was his man, if it wasnt his fault why was he chasing him ? KJ dont have enough make up speed to pass wayne off and then catch back up in time to try to contest it.

And yeah i knew it was a mistake to let Reeveso go, that left us with a sophomore CB in Quin and a rookie in KJ. And i didnt like the sound of that, especially considering Reeves was not a half bad CB

 

[76Texan]

I wouldve put my record against anyones a couple of yrs ago when i had access to coaches tape. Unless you have access to coaches tape like these guys do, i highly doubt that your record will be as good as their record no matter how many hrs of still frame you watch. Thats like saying you can out do someone like synergy sports and i don't buy that one.

Greg Cossell, the guy with all the coaches' tapes in the world said before the season that he believed KJ will be a quality CB.

I also mentioned somebody who was with Lance Z talking about "somebody with coach tapes" credited Jackson's plays with helping the front 7 do their job.

On the other point, I was talking about the "pros" like in "the media".

 

[thunderkyss]

i have heard kubiak KJ, before. i dont know how it wasnt his fault, it was his man, if it wasnt his fault why was he chasing him ? KJ dont have enough make up speed to pass wayne off and then catch back up in time to try to contest it.

They weren't playing man... it was zone coverage. Kj did what his coaches told him to & guarded from an outside release. When the ball was in the air, he attacked the receiver... & was close (but not close enough) to defending that pass.

I agree with you on Kj's lack of make up speed. I just don't think that pass was an example of it.

 

[Rey]

Some one mentioned jumping on a fade route and I just watched a replay of the cowboys/giants game and mike jenkins jumped and defended a fade route in the endzone.

 

[thunderkyss]

Some one mentioned jumping on a fade route and I just watched a replay of the cowboys/giants game and mike jenkins jumped and defended a fade route in the endzone.

There are more than a dozen things Kj could have done on that play that would have been better than what he did (which amounted to nothing).

 

[leebigeztx]

Greg Cossell, the guy with all the coaches' tapes in the world said before the season that he believed KJ will be a quality CB.

I also mentioned somebody who was with Lance Z talking about "somebody with coach tapes" credited Jackson's plays with helping the front 7 do their job.

On the other point, I was talking about the "pros" like in "the media".

I listen to cossell every thurs morning on sirius and he's one of my favorites. Go and ask him about jackson right now. A solid corner to me is jammer. Jammer is a guy who doesn't get ints, but he is physical and break up plays. 60% and 16ypc is not solid. Rogers of the 49ers had one of the lowest comp % even last yr with the overrated hall on the other side. He's a solid corner. Jackson is not solid, he's not terrible either. He will play his rookie deal out and be replaced. In todays nfl, you need 3 good corners. Not 1 or 2, but 3.

 

[GP]

I'm just gonna hate it when we let this POS go he gonna play his ass off on another team and become a star...

That's what everyone said about David Carr.

"Watch him go to Carolina and just become this awesome QB."

Then it was...

"Watch him go to the Giants and become a star QB."

Then it was...

"Watch Carr end up in San Francisco and...oh, wait. He sucks. My bad."

 

[EllisUnit]

Greg Cossell, the guy with all the coaches' tapes in the world said before the season that he believed KJ will be a quality CB.

I also mentioned somebody who was with Lance Z talking about "somebody with coach tapes" credited Jackson's plays with helping the front 7 do their job.

On the other point, I was talking about the "pros" like in "the media".

Wow now i feel better :mariopalm:

 

[76Texan]

I listen to cossell every thurs morning on sirius and he's one of my favorites. Go and ask him about jackson right now. A solid corner to me is jammer. Jammer is a guy who doesn't get ints, but he is physical and break up plays. 60% and 16ypc is not solid. Rogers of the 49ers had one of the lowest comp % even last yr with the overrated hall on the other side. He's a solid corner. Jackson is not solid, he's not terrible either. He will play his rookie deal out and be replaced. In todays nfl, you need 3 good corners. Not 1 or 2, but 3.

I google Kareem Jackson Greg Cosell and come up with this:

Fantasy Sports - The Roto Times ® - www.rototimes.com
Wayne set up his own game-winning 1-yard touchdown with an excellent route and leaping grab over Kareem Jackson despite tight ... according to NFL Films' Greg Cosell…

www.rototimes.com/football/player_news.php?seldate=2011-12-22

Can't tell whether the comment was from rotoworld or greg cosell.

Wayne set up his own game-winning 1-yard touchdown with an excellent route and leaping grab over Kareem Jackson despite tight coverage.

http://www.rototimes.com/football/player_news.php?seldate=2011-12-22

Can't really talk about numbers from PFF 'cause like I said, they can't tell coverage any better than we can. (And I brought up this point with Karl long before we drafted KJ.)

We'll see what happens in 2013, whether the Texans will pick up the 5th year of the contract or not.
Lots of things can happen between now and then anyway.

 

[76Texan]

Some one mentioned jumping on a fade route and I just watched a replay of the cowboys/giants game and mike jenkins jumped and defended a fade route in the endzone.

It was a different situation Rey.
(You must be talking about the pass to Beckum in week 14).
The ball was thrown to the inside, that was why Jenkins can get to it.

It was similar to the two passes thrown to Julio Jones that KJ defended.
He jumped both times.

Remember the one pass you mentioned where Julio made a great catch and Jackson almost got to the ball (you said it in one of your posts).
The ball was thrown to the outside.

And the one in the end zone at the end of the game.
The ball was somewhere in between.

KJ played off-man just like Jenkins.
That's how the CB can see the QB and the ball from the beginning.
He's already have depth and can get to the spot better in order to position himself for the jump.

KJ knows how to play the way you wants him to, what else can you ask for?

It was nice of you reading my posts still

I'm gonna be out of bound for a few days.
Much hope for a win so that everybody will have more positive talks.

Go Texans!

 

[Texan_Bill]

For Christ's sake John..... Please stop it!!


While you hit on many of subjects you often miss...... In any event, get a ****ing life bro!! In fact, when was it you last visited us at Blue Crew??? Seriously!!!!!

 

[76Texan]

For Christ's sake John..... Please stop it!!


While you hit on many of subjects you often miss...... In any event, get a ****ing life bro!! In fact, when was it you last visited us at Blue Crew??? Seriously!!!!!

I'm ready to put a hold on this topic, TB.



I hope to visit the Blue Crew at the WC game???

 

[Rey]

It was a different situation Rey.
(You must be talking about the pass to Beckum in week 14).

It was similar to the two passes thrown to Julio Jones that KJ defended.
He jumped both times.

Remember the one pass you mentioned where Julio made a great catch and Jackson almost got to the ball (you said it in one of your posts).

And the one in the end zone at the end of the game.

KJ played off-man just like Jenkins.
That's how the CB can see the QB and the ball from the beginning.
He's already have depth and can get to the spot better in order to position himself for the jump.

KJ knows how to play the way you wants him to, what else can you ask for?

It was nice of you reading my posts still

I'm gonna be out of bound for a few days.
Much hope for a win so that everybody will have more positive talks.

Go Texans!

No it was from this past game that they played. Very similar situation. Jenkins had better positioning and was able to get in between the ball and the receiver and he jumped up and broke up the fade route pass.

But anyways, I was just commenting on that one particular comment I saw in the thread. All this Kareem Jackson sucks/doesn't suck has never been my cup of tea. I've never said he sucks. I may have said he has sucked in certain situations, but folks will read into it however they see fit. Kareem has improved in his ability to stay near receivers (kudos I guess) but he still is pretty bad when the ball is actually thrown towards him. He does not do a good job of actually getting his hands on balls and he does a poor job of positioning himself to do so.

That has been my main concern regarding him since way back when this whole conversation started. Go back and check. Go back and check why I felt like Jason Allen would take snaps away from him. (I never said Allen should start, Just said I liked his ball skills more but I liked Jackson's physicality more).

Anyways, I'm past that. I firmly believe we can do better at cb#2. Kareem will do if we simply cannot find anyone better, but he is not a guy that I am going to pencil into the starting line-up next year or any year after.

I believe there will be corners available in the draft that will be able to challenge him for playing time much like Allen (a guy that many Kareem apologist have gone out of their way to say sucks) has challenged him for playing time this year.

You guys can call it what you want, but I'd prefer a better player there. One that can actually keep Jason Allen off the field.

And I never said I don't read your post. I said I don't pay much attention to your analysis anymore.

 

[76Texan]

No it was from this past game that they played. Very similar situation. Jenkins had better positioning and was able to get in between the ball and the receiver and he jumped up and broke up the fade route pass.

That was the past game they played.
Jenkins play off-man (about 5 yards away);
no jam

At any rate, KJ has already shown that he can jump to defend the fade route in those two plays I mentioned.

 

[76Texan]

I believe there will be corners available in the draft that will be able to challenge him for playing time much like Allen (a guy that many Kareem apologist have gone out of their way to say sucks) has challenged him for playing time this year.

Neither TK nor I ever said that Allen sucks.

We both said that he's not the future, that is all.



I have never ever say that any player sucks (even if they play very poorly).
It's just not my style.

If I ever make any comment of the sort, it would clearly be in a joking manner.

 

[thunderkyss]

Neither TK nor I ever said that Allen sucks.

We both said that he's not the future, that is all.



I have never ever say that any player sucks (even if they play very poorly).
It's just not my style.

If I ever make any comment of the sort, it would clearly be in a joking manner.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I've said David Carr sucked several times, but no one wanted to believe me then..... now, they think I was on the wrong side of that argument.

I argued Tj was a hard worker & the best DT on the team.... I also said we could use an upgrade, but guys like DelJuan Robinson would disappear once he played the same position as Tj.... the guy played the 3 tech (Up Tackle) which naturally gets more stats....... tackles, pressures, sacks, than the NT. Tj never had the opportunity to play the UT while he was here, always the NT or 3-4 DE (which I never thought he was suited for).

I liked Babin's motor, was sad to see him go...... also sad it took so long for him to do something.

I liked Gaffney & blamed David Carr for his poor numbers.... he went elsewhere, & though he isn't a star (2nd round pick??) he's a solid WR & I'd love him to be here in JJones' place.

I liked Okoye..... not for where we drafted him, but I bet he'll be in the league a long time.

Never cared for Weaver.... didn't say much about him at all.

Never cared for Greenwood.. never said anything about him.

Never cared for Dunta & I think that's why it took us so long to address CB the way we should have to begin with. Dunta Robinson never was (IMO) & never will be a #1 CB...... I think Kj will be.

I've been right about some players, I've been wrong about others. Some guys, like Mario I like & I may be a little more patient than others waiting for him to become who he's supposed to be. Kj falls into that group, because I feel sorry for the position he was put in last year. He appears to be talented enough to play the position as well as it should be played, but I do think he is short of where he should be right now.

Sharing time with Allen, I don't think is helping him as much as it did last season.

Allen... If he were a starting CB on my team, I'd be looking for an upgrade. I honestly don't think he's a starter in this league, not when more & more receivers look like Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, & Julio Jones. Heck Heyward-Bay posterized him, & he's not "that" physical of a receiver.

But, I've also said, recently that Allen has played better at the line, I think it was the Bengals game. Next time you watch a game, watch when Jason Allen has his toes on the line. He can't wait for the ball to snap. He's already turning & running, which tells the receiver he doesn't have to worry about the jam & he'll be able to release however he chooses to..... Jason Allen has no intentions of forcing a receiver inside, outside, or mess with his timing. 9 times out of 10, he wants to be on top of the receiver & tries to stay on top (which is ok) but if it's a hook or quick out, that receiver is waiting for Allen to open his hips, the receiver then makes his cut & Allen is turned the wrong way & there is the separation QBs are looking for.

He does get interceptions.... on poorly thrown balls. I've never seen him jump a route to get an INT & he bats down as many balls as Kj....... none. So while his ball skills are better, they are not where they need to be.

Kj isn't a starter (in my mind either) but we don't have 7 years of history saying that he isn't, like we have with Allen.

 

[EllisUnit]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I've said David Carr sucked several times, but no one wanted to believe me then..... now, they think I was on the wrong side of that argument.

I argued Tj was a hard worker & the best DT on the team.... I also said we could use an upgrade, but guys like (I can't remember the name of the guy everyone thought was better than Tj) would disappear once he played the same position as Tj.... the guy played the 3 tech (Up Tackle) which naturally gets more stats....... tackles, pressures, sacks, than the NT. Tj never had the opportunity to play the UT while he was here, always the NT or 3-4 DE (which I never thought he was suited for).

I liked Babin's motor, was sad to see him go...... also sad it took so long for him to do something.

I liked Gaffney & blamed David Carr for his poor numbers.... he went elsewhere, & though he isn't a star (2nd round pick??) he's a solid WR & I'd love him to be here in JJones' place.

I liked Okoye..... not for where we drafted him, but I bet he'll be in the league a long time.

Never cared for Weaver.... didn't say much about him at all.

Never cared for Greenwood.. never said anything about him.

Never cared for Dunta & I think that's why it took us so long to address CB the way we should have to begin with. Dunta Robinson never was (IMO) & never will be a #1 CB...... I think Kj will be.

I've been right about some players, I've been wrong about others. Some guys, like Mario I like & I may be a little more patient than others waiting for him to become who he's supposed to be. Kj falls into that group, because I feel sorry for the position he was put in last year. He appears to be talented enough to play the position as well as it should be played, but I do think he is short or where he should be right now.

Sharing time with Allen, I don't think is helping him as much as it did last season.

Allen... If he were a starting CB on my team, I'd be looking for an upgrade. I honestly don't think he's a starter in this league, not when more & more receivers look like Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, & Julio Jones. Heck Heyward-Bay posterized him, & he's not "that" physical of a receiver.

But, I've also said, recently that Allen has played better at the line, I think it was the Bengals game. Next time you watch a game, watch when Jason Allen has his toes on the line. He can't wait for the ball to snap. He's already turning & running, which tells the receiver he doesn't have to worry about the jam & he'll be able to release however he chooses to..... Jason Allen has no intentions of forcing a receiver inside, outside, or mess with his timing. 9 times out of 10, he wants to be on top of the receiver & tries to stay on top (which is ok) but if it's a hook or quick out, that receiver is waiting for Allen to open his hips, the receiver then makes his cut & Allen is turned the wrong way & there is the separation QBs are looking for.

He does get interceptions.... on poorly thrown balls. I've never seen him jump a route to get an INT & he bats down as many balls as Kj....... none. So while his ball skills are better, they are not where they need to be.

Kj isn't a starter (in my mind either) but we don't have 7 years of history saying that he isn't, like we have with Allen.

And how many of KJs have been INTS on good thrown balls. I can tell you a few really good ints by allen just off the top of my head

Eagles, Broncos, atlanta (he did jump the route), Oakland, i'm sue there are more but i'd have to go back and look

 

[thunderkyss]

And how many of KJs have been INTS on good thrown balls.

I never said Kj gets INTs on well thrown balls. I've contended that Kj will never be the kind of CB that gets a lot of INTs.

I've also never said Kj was better than Allen (overall. They both have some things they do better than the other, but neither should be starting in this league).

I can tell you a few really good ints by allen just off the top of my head

Eagles, Broncos, atlanta (he did jump the route), Oakland, i'm sue there are more but i'd have to go back and look

I don't agree, or I don't remember. Atlanta is fresh on my mind. He did not jump the route..... well. He may have jumped the route the QB was throwing, but he didn't jump the route the receiver was running.

So I'll give you that one.

 

[EllisUnit]

I never said Kj gets INTs on well thrown balls. I've contended that Kj will never be the kind of CB that gets a lot of INTs.

I've also never said Kj was better than Allen (overall. They both have some things they do better than the other, but neither should be starting in this league).



I don't agree, or I don't remember. Atlanta is fresh on my mind. He did not jump the route..... well. He may have jumped the route the QB was throwing, but he didn't jump the route the receiver was running.

So I'll give you that one.

on the atlanta game Matt Ryan threw a bullet trying to hit Julio Jones, it should not of been a bullet, if he would of put some air under it then it would of been a completion, but he didnt and allen did jump the route.

But what about the other games, i think my most impressive INT i can remember him making was last season against the eagles. that was some damn good coverage and a dman good INT.

 

[thunderkyss]

But what about the other games, i think my most impressive INT i can remember him making was last season against the eagles. that was some damn good coverage and a dman good INT.

That was nice.

 

[TexansFanatic]

Dude is just a liability, plain and simple. Might as well just leave his guy uncovered and have 10 defenders on the field.

 

[stingray]

I was a kareem supporter. No more. The guy stinks and does not belong on the field.

 

[Mr. Texan]

he's the most "nfl ready"

 

[LikeMike]

Kind of a knee jerk reaction, don`t you think. Yeah, he made mistakes today - one of em really big. But he had a real good season so far and still a lot to learn. Without JoJo our whole coverage looks a lot worse.

KJ is solid with some great run support and ST tackles and a weakness to the deep ball. He is already a pretty good #2 and should still improve.

 

[PapaL]

Its not like this is his first year ever playing CB. I just don't get the he'll get better mentality. A lot of his issues are basic things.

Unless you're JJo, we need to upgrade our CB play.

 

[EllisUnit]

Kind of a knee jerk reaction, don`t you think. Yeah, he made mistakes today - one of em really big. But he had a real good season so far and still a lot to learn. Without JoJo our whole coverage looks a lot worse.

KJ is solid with some great run support and ST tackles and a weakness to the deep ball. He is already a pretty good #2 and should still improve.

we see what happens when the pressure slows down though.