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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
QBs who are foot happy and like to run don't last in today's NFL. I'm glad that Watson is athletic enough to squirm out of situations and make something happen, it's a rare gift. But, if you combine that with deliberately called QB running plays your starting QB will have a much shorter life span in the NFL.
Agreed

This is why I said BOB/Watson are a bad fit,

BOB knows he cant win with Watson running the offense he wants to run. So he's running the offense that will bring the most W's with Watson playing QB.
 

mws

Waterboy
O'Brian has won more games with Watson running his offense than any other QB he has had. And he has had a lot of them.

O'Brian sure as hell could not win with his offense with any of these guys.

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Ryan Mallett
Case Keenum
Brian Hoyer
T. J. Yates
Brandon Weeden
Brock Osweiler
Tom Savage

And let's not forget the stellar running game his weekly game planning genius has brought to Houston.

Just look at all the great RBs we have had.

Alfred Blue
Jonathan Grimes
Kenny Hilliard
Akeem Hunt
Chris Polk
Tyler Ervin
D'Onta Foreman
Andre Ellington
Jordan Todman
Buddy Howell
Taiwan Jones

Only these 3 have even been decent.
Lamar Miller
Carlos Hyde
Duke Johnson

So to sum up:
In 5 years with 9 different QBs and 14 different RBs O'Brian's vaunted offensive system has won a grand total of 1 playoff game.
That 1 win came against a rookie QB starting his first game in the NFL.

So I hope that he has finally seen the light & realized his system has never won anything.

I won't hold my breath though.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Personally I think this conversation is premature. Is he a top 5 QB? He may be top 5 in some (many) stats, but so what?

Matt Stafford is a dam fine QB, but he hasn't lifted that team out of Mediocrity.

& I think that's the kind of QB we're looking for. Can Watson lift this team out of the funk we're in? Like Brady did for the couldn't win it all Patriots, Brees for the Aints, Peyton for the Colts.

I think he has all the tools. I doubt he can consistently win regardless the shape of the rest of this team, like those guys did. Like Favre did, like Roethlisberger did, like Marino did. Even Bledsoe.

Those guys in the league right now, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rogers... five spot wide open.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
O'Brian has won more games with Watson running his offense than any other QB he has had. And he has had a lot of them.

O'Brian sure as hell could not win with his offense with any of these guys.

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Ryan Mallett
Case Keenum
Brian Hoyer
T. J. Yates
Brandon Weeden
Brock Osweiler
Tom Savage

And let's not forget the stellar running game his weekly game planning genius has brought to Houston.

Just look at all the great RBs we have had.

Alfred Blue
Jonathan Grimes
Kenny Hilliard
Akeem Hunt
Chris Polk
Tyler Ervin
D'Onta Foreman
Andre Ellington
Jordan Todman
Buddy Howell
Taiwan Jones

Only these 3 have even been decent.
Lamar Miller
Carlos Hyde
Duke Johnson

So to sum up:
In 5 years with 9 different QBs and 14 different RBs O'Brian's vaunted offensive system has won a grand total of 1 playoff game.
That 1 win came against a rookie QB starting his first game in the NFL.

So I hope that he has finally seen the light & realized his system has never won anything.

I won't hold my breath though.
How many yrs has BOB been calling the shots? Oh right, this year
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
"I doubt he can consistently win regardless of the shape of the rest of this team"

What. The. ****.

Nonsensical comment. Watson has THRIVED with some of the worst offensive lines in NFL history, with a pathetic excuse for an offensive coordinator, with a pathetic excuse for a head coach and with questionable talent in the RB and TE department. Still he wins. Still he walks on water. Still he gets it done with ONE EYE.

And still his very own fans question his ability to be a leader of men and show the rest of the team HOW TO BE A WINNER!! Why? Pride.

Dude wins, and what gets brought up?? Why he couldnt hit a few open receivers during the course of a game. LOL

#JesuswithCleats!!!!

I BELIEVE!
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Shouldn't it be Jesus in cleats?

I mean, unless he's just walking out onto the field with a ball in one hand and a pair of Adidas in the other..

Like he just goes everywhere with a pair of cleats. At HEB pushing a kart while holding some cleats, at a restaurant with a menu and some cleats, at home watching TV snuggled up on the couch with a fresh pair..
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
"I doubt he can consistently win regardless of the shape of the rest of this team"

What. The. ****.

Nonsensical comment. Watson has THRIVED with some of the worst offensive lines in NFL history, with a pathetic excuse for an offensive coordinator, with a pathetic excuse for a head coach and with questionable talent in the RB and TE department. Still he wins. Still he walks on water. Still he gets it done with ONE EYE.

And still his very own fans question his ability to be a leader of men and show the rest of the team HOW TO BE A WINNER!! Why? Pride.

Dude wins, and what gets brought up?? Why he couldnt hit a few open receivers during the course of a game. LOL

#JesuswithCleats!!!!

I BELIEVE!
What's funny is how much Deshaun has done and people still doubt him.

Then OBrien has done so little (has he done anything?) yet people believe in him.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Shouldn't it be Jesus in cleats?

I mean, unless he's just walking out onto the field with a ball in one hand and a pair of Adidas in the other..

Like he just goes everywhere with a pair of cleats. At HEB pushing a kart while holding some cleats, at a restaurant with a menu and some cleats, at home watching TV snuggled up on the couch with a fresh pair..
Nahhh SteelB said he was "jesuswithcleats" so he will ALWAYS be #JESUSwithCLEATS to me!!
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I think that's step 3 for O'Brien. Just cutting or trading a guy for peanuts
Or giving up substantially more valuable picks for other peoples trash and "projects". But who needs 1st or 3rd round picks anyways? Shoot STeelB says all you need is a couple of 4ths, a 5th and the late rounders and you're good to go to restock! Such an easy plan to follow and imitate its a wonder that not everyone around the league is doing it!

We have savants and Prometheus society members among us my dude! Act accordingly!!
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Or giving up substantially more valuable picks for other peoples trash and "projects". But who needs 1st or 3rd round picks anyways? Shoot STeelB says all you need is a couple of 4ths, a 5th and the late rounders and you're good to go to restock! Such an easy plan to follow and imitate its a wonder that not everyone around the league is doing it!

We have savants and Prometheus society members among us my dude! Act accordingly!!
I like how other teams dumped guys on us they were likely to cut (Mingo, Hyde, stills) and got substantial assets in return.

Every GM out there knows OBrien is an idiot
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Or giving up substantially more valuable picks for other peoples trash and "projects". But who needs 1st or 3rd round picks anyways? Shoot STeelB says all you need is a couple of 4ths, a 5th and the late rounders and you're good to go to restock! Such an easy plan to follow and imitate its a wonder that not everyone around the league is doing it!

We have savants and Prometheus society members among us my dude! Act accordingly!!
You're so full of it.

They have all of their picks in the next draft if you include comp picks, except their 1st rd pick and they have the best young LT in the game protecting your Jesusincleats blindside. Just admit you hate all things Pats and be done with this.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Or giving up substantially more valuable picks for other peoples trash and "projects". But who needs 1st or 3rd round picks anyways? Shoot STeelB says all you need is a couple of 4ths, a 5th and the late rounders and you're good to go to restock! Such an easy plan to follow and imitate its a wonder that not everyone around the league is doing it!

We have savants and Prometheus society members among us my dude! Act accordingly!!
You're so full of it. I never said anything like this but if I did how would you know since you have me on ignore. Which after posts like this misleading one I'm glad to be a member of your ignore list. Hopefully you add more to the list so I can follow them, they must be sensible posters.

They have all of their picks in the next draft if you include comp picks, except their 1st rd pick and they have the best young LT in the game protecting your Jesusincleats blindside. Just admit you hate all things Pats and be done with this.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Personally I think this conversation is premature. Is he a top 5 QB? He may be top 5 in some (many) stats, but so what?

Matt Stafford is a dam fine QB, but he hasn't lifted that team out of Mediocrity.

& I think that's the kind of QB we're looking for. Can Watson lift this team out of the funk we're in? Like Brady did for the couldn't win it all Patriots, Brees for the Aints, Peyton for the Colts.

I think he has all the tools. I doubt he can consistently win regardless the shape of the rest of this team, like those guys did. Like Favre did, like Roethlisberger did, like Marino did. Even Bledsoe.

Those guys in the league right now, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rogers... five spot wide open.
For once , we're in agreement …. even if we get there in different ways.

When you look purely at statistics , Watson's really good …. but we were stuck in mediocrity before he came and haven't really been any better since he got here.

9-7 in 2014 with FitzTragic , Mullett and Keenum under center.
9-7 in 2015 with Hoyerable , Mullett , Yates & Weedman , first round exit.
9-7 in 2016 with The Blundering Wizard of Os and Savage , second round exit.
4-12 in 2017 with Watson , Savage and Yates.
11-5 in 2018 and a first round exit from the playoffs with Watson.
5-3 in 2019 with Watson. Looking very much like last years team and I pretty much expect the same result - an early playoff exit.


Before I'm willing to put him in the top 5 with the likes of Brady , Rodgers , Brees , Mahomes and Co , he has to do it in the post season …. doesn't matter what you do in the regular season if you flame out in the first round of the playoffs.

Right now , the results are …. average.

You want to be in that elite group , put your superman cape on and beat some of those guys when it counts.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-rankings-nfl-quarterback-rankings-following-week-8-2019 (sorry if paywall - ask any question about article or ranking i'll answer)

8. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
The highlight-reel plays continue to add up for Watson, who ranks sixth in big-time throw percentage and second in rushing grade (88.0) among quarterbacks this season. Watson’s high-end play is among the best in the league, but he must avoid the disastrous games, as he’s posted four single-game grades of 40.5 or lower since entering the league in 2017. If he can cut down on his sack rate and turnover-worthy plays (13th highest this season), Watson has all of the skills to rank among the elite signal-callers in the NFL, but he’s still refining those elements of his game.
PFF has him at 8 FWIW. Im pretty sure they missed adding the whole "cant make progressions" argument, but Im sure it will be on the next rankings list.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I like how other teams dumped guys on us they were likely to cut (Mingo, Hyde, stills) and got substantial assets in return.

Every GM out there knows OBrien is an idiot
They're only assets if they turn out to be something. But when you consider that the success rate for draft picks in the NFL is only 53% & the average NFL career is only 3-4 years, i would say there's a decent possibility that those "assets" dont turn out to be much. & that 53% success rate..........that's for 1st rounders..Goes considerably lower for lower draft picks.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://www.pff.com/news/bet-nfl-week-9-spread-and-over-under-picks

After a year and a half of (mostly) fading the Texans with Deshaun Watson, I have to say it’s nice to have a week where we can root for one of the league’s best young players. After being the highest-pressured quarterback in the NFL a season ago (44.7%), Watson pressure rate has fallen to the league’s 12th-highest rate this year (38.5%). And since Week 5, he’s been pressured just under 31% of the time (26th in the league). In the increasingly prevalent clean pockets, he’s generated the fourth-highest adjusted completion percentage in the league (85.1%) and will likely see higher returns on investment if his receivers’ drops (12 from clean pockets so far, fifth-most) regress to the mean as the season progresses.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
@IE_NFL: Deshaun Watson has completed 73.8% of his passes against the blitz this season, highest in NFL.

#WeAreTexans https://t.co/SHSvzOVTTn

This youngster is out there handling his business. He's on pace to throwing well over 4000 yds, 35+ TD's, rush for 500 + yards, and rush for 10 TD's. Now he does have to do a much better job at protecting the ball because, he's on pace to throwing 10 INT's ( which isn't that bad) and fumbling the ball 10 times. Good thing is either he has recovered most of his fumbles he has right now or one of his teammates has recovered it.

I'm so glad Bill O'Brien set aside his pride for the betterment of this team and Watson health. He didn't simplify his offense but enhanced it, by playing to the strength of his skill players. He is still running the ball up the middle so LOL he didn't give up on everything. But I do understand the reasoning behind that method.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I also think that Deshaun Watson leads the league in missed progressions. Not a real stat or anything, but its what i've heard. Shrug.

Really dude , 3 consecutive posts stating the same thing …. we get it , you don't believe he makes any mistakes. Give it a rest.

Some of you seem to think he's perfect and others think the polar opposite.

Its neither - He's a really good football player with exceptional physical talent - that has a few warts.

Fact is one of those warts is he misses an quite a few "reads" be that throwing into coverage or missing open guys.
The fact that he may have completed a pass on that play anyway doesn't change that.

You really need to watch some ALL-22 …. it will be eye opening.

And before you go there , I'm not calling him stupid , this is about vision , seeing , anticipating and processing things in real time.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
That can be said for every quarterback in the NFL. How about giving the youngster his just do for being selected AFC player of the month. The man put up some great numbers while leading his troops to a 3-1 record.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@Corrosion if you have access to the coaches film share it. I’d love to be humbled and redirected. I share as much as I can with my subscriptions. I provide links to data or supplementary material. I don’t just blurt out my opinion as fact. I watch the film I do have access to and rewind the plays you guys say he missed over and over again and I don’t see the gross “one hash one read” QB he’s made out to be. No QB makes every read. NO QB MAKES EVERY READ. Some are more experienced to take the easy play and throw the haymaker later - Deshaun is trying to throw nothing but haymakers. He has overcome handicaps in the playbook and on the offensive line. He’s not perfect but in year 3 I’m a pig in mud with the kid.

#jesuswithcleats 4 MVP
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
@Corrosion if you have access to the coaches film share it. I’d love to be humbled and redirected. I share as much as I can with my subscriptions. I provide links to data or supplementary material. I don’t just blurt out my opinion as fact. I watch the film I do have access to and rewind the plays you guys say he missed over and over again and I don’t see the gross “one hash one read” QB he’s made out to be. No QB makes every read. NO QB MAKES EVERY READ. Some are more experienced to take the easy play and throw the haymaker later - Deshaun is trying to throw nothing but haymakers. He has overcome handicaps in the playbook and on the offensive line. He’s not perfect but in year 3 I’m a pig in mud with the kid.

#jesuswithcleats 4 MVP

If you rewind the plays we talk about him missing reads on and don't see the problem …. I don't know what to say.

Now , lets clear something up - I never said he was a one hash one read QB …. I said he misses an awful lot of reads. (I did say that pre-draft because that's exactly what he did in college - with much larger windows to throw into).

Part of that is on him and part of that is on OB and his stupid offense where the reads don't seem to flow naturally from one side to another.

You think he's Jesus In Cleats and seem to believe others think he's hot garbage. I'm not in either camp - I think he has all the tools but wonder what he is - What I see is a guy who's average in the pocket but fantastic when he gets off script.
I don't really know what to make of him as a "Quarterback" because I believe the offense is not well suited to him - I'd like to see him with another HC / OC before I handed him a 5 year 190m contract. He's got to be able to string together drives within the scope of the offense , not just make big plays when things break down.

OB aint helping matters and Cal aint helping himself by letting OB stick around. He's going to end up paying that $190m without knowing if he has a great Quarterback or a stat monster.
 

Earl34

Rookie
If you rewind the plays we talk about him missing reads on and don't see the problem …. I don't know what to say.

Now , lets clear something up - I never said he was a one hash one read QB …. I said he misses an awful lot of reads. (I did say that pre-draft because that's exactly what he did in college - with much larger windows to throw into).

Part of that is on him and part of that is on OB and his stupid offense where the reads don't seem to flow naturally from one side to another.

You think he's Jesus In Cleats and seem to believe others think he's hot garbage. I'm not in either camp - I think he has all the tools but wonder what he is - What I see is a guy who's average in the pocket but fantastic when he gets off script.
I don't really know what to make of him as a "Quarterback" because I believe the offense is not well suited to him - I'd like to see him with another HC / OC before I handed him a 5 year 190m contract. He's got to be able to string together drives within the scope of the offense , not just make big plays when things break down.

OB aint helping matters and Cal aint helping himself by letting OB stick around. He's going to end up paying that $190m without knowing if he has a great Quarterback or a stat monster.
I'm not in the Jesus In Cleats camp. However, I recognize we have a very talented young QB who will make his share of mistakes, but I also consider the play calling and scheme as a factor in some of his mistakes. I read the article below regarding Aaron Rodgers and how he regressed in the Green Bay offense. It sounds very similar to what we are seeing with Watson and O'Brien's offense. It makes you realize that even a franchise, future HoF QB like Rodgers who had over 10 years in an offense was making some of the same mistakes our 3rd year QB is making. Here are some of the quotes from the article. Does some of it sound familiar?

"Here’s a play where Rodgers has two open receivers to his right but decides to hold onto the ball for an eternity instead of making a throw, leading to another sack…"
"We’ve seen this happen before. The Packers offense stagnates, Rodgers starts to press and it just compounds the team’s offensive issues"
"McCarthy draws up a nice design to spring an open receiver (it happens every once in a while) and Rodgers somehow doesn’t see it and throws to a covered running back instead"
"Here he has Marquez Valdes-Scandling (bottom of the screen) come open on a corner route. And after some waffling in the pocket, Graham also breaks free. Rodgers settles for a scramble that nearly gets him injured"

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/10/nfl-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-offense-problems-blame-lions
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If you rewind the plays we talk about him missing reads on and don't see the problem …. I don't know what to say.

Now , lets clear something up - I never said he was a one hash one read QB …. I said he misses an awful lot of reads. (I did say that pre-draft because that's exactly what he did in college - with much larger windows to throw into).

Part of that is on him and part of that is on OB and his stupid offense where the reads don't seem to flow naturally from one side to another.

You think he's Jesus In Cleats and seem to believe others think he's hot garbage. I'm not in either camp - I think he has all the tools but wonder what he is - What I see is a guy who's average in the pocket but fantastic when he gets off script.
I don't really know what to make of him as a "Quarterback" because I believe the offense is not well suited to him - I'd like to see him with another HC / OC before I handed him a 5 year 190m contract. He's got to be able to string together drives within the scope of the offense , not just make big plays when things break down.

OB aint helping matters and Cal aint helping himself by letting OB stick around. He's going to end up paying that $190m without knowing if he has a great Quarterback or a stat monster.
He's far from hot garbage, he's a young player who needs to
learn

If he's missing reads in college and now in the NFL what does that tell you? Do you think he can improve in this area? I have my doubts. This isn't on BOB.

Agreed and BOB/Watson is bad fit, because Watson is avg at best in the pocket and I agree that's Watson is fantastic outside the pocket. The not being able to string drives together is because of the things I listed above and avg accuracy.

For me the question is, do you want to guarantee a guy for 35/40 mil per season that has these issues and more importantly has already had an ACL on both knees in addition to his playing style which will make him more susceptible to injury in the future? I'm not sure that I would be willing to accept that risk even though Watson is a great player.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
even though Watson is a great player.
I dont expect any one piece to be perfect. Watson isnt, the line isnt, ob damn sure isnt.

I dont have a horse in the current race. I dont have any long hashed narrative on who I root for or blame on our lack of success. What I do know is Watson is special.

Had I a say, I wont go back to tj Yates, mallett, hoyer, and all the other ridiculous trash QBs we've fielded for years. Watson is it. We protect him and do everything in our power to make his job easier.

Ultimately, I have more faith in a 1 eyed quarterback throwing TDs then ob's offense.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'd rather give a QB like Watson $35M+/yr than another red cent to a HC who can't win big with a QB like that..
This isn't about the HC , why does everything gotta be Watson vs BOB?

It's about do you think Watson can improve on areas he's struggled with since college and can he avoid more ACL injuries given his style of play.

Even with a new HC I've got my doubts.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
This isn't about the HC , why does everything gotta be Watson vs BOB?

It's about do you think Watson can improve on areas he's struggled with since college and can he avoid more ACL injuries given his style of play.

Even with a new HC I've got my doubts.
Unwad your panties, I didn't say anything about O'Brien.

I implied that I believe DW is good enough to lead a team to a SB while I said that I believe a HC worth his paycheck should be able to pull the requisite coaching strings to do so with him.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Unwad your panties, I didn't say anything about O'Brien.

I implied that I believe DW is good enough to lead a team to a SB while I said that I believe a HC worth his paycheck should be able to pull the requisite coaching strings to do so with him.
Hope you're right.

He could just as easily get hurt, with his injury history.

35-40 a yr is a pretty steep gamble with that injury history.

When do you think this team will be a true contender? Next yr is what I'm looking at. I'm not kidding myself that this team is ready to win a SB this yr.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Best case for this franchise is that OB is gone after this year and we get to see Watson with another HC/OC and different system that better utilizes his talents.

Worst case is OB stays , we hand Watson the 180M over 5 years and it turns out that he is only good off script.

I don't want to be the team that pays for Tom Brady and gets Matt Stafford.
 


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