Really?
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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?
- Thread starter DanielTx
- Start date
Really?
Agreed
This is why I said BOB/Watson are a bad fit,
BOB knows he cant win with Watson running the offense he wants to run. So he's running the offense that will bring the most W's with Watson playing QB.
O'Brian has won more games with Watson running his offense than any other QB he has had. And he has had a lot of them.
O'Brian sure as hell could not win with his offense with any of these guys.
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Ryan Mallett
Case Keenum
Brian Hoyer
T. J. Yates
Brandon Weeden
Brock Osweiler
Tom Savage
And let's not forget the stellar running game his weekly game planning genius has brought to Houston.
Just look at all the great RBs we have had.
Alfred Blue
Jonathan Grimes
Kenny Hilliard
Akeem Hunt
Chris Polk
Tyler Ervin
D'Onta Foreman
Andre Ellington
Jordan Todman
Buddy Howell
Taiwan Jones
Only these 3 have even been decent.
Lamar Miller
Carlos Hyde
Duke Johnson
So to sum up:
In 5 years with 9 different QBs and 14 different RBs O'Brian's vaunted offensive system has won a grand total of 1 playoff game.
That 1 win came against a rookie QB starting his first game in the NFL.
So I hope that he has finally seen the light & realized his system has never won anything.
I won't hold my breath though.
O'Brian sure as hell could not win with his offense with any of these guys.
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Ryan Mallett
Case Keenum
Brian Hoyer
T. J. Yates
Brandon Weeden
Brock Osweiler
Tom Savage
And let's not forget the stellar running game his weekly game planning genius has brought to Houston.
Just look at all the great RBs we have had.
Alfred Blue
Jonathan Grimes
Kenny Hilliard
Akeem Hunt
Chris Polk
Tyler Ervin
D'Onta Foreman
Andre Ellington
Jordan Todman
Buddy Howell
Taiwan Jones
Only these 3 have even been decent.
Lamar Miller
Carlos Hyde
Duke Johnson
So to sum up:
In 5 years with 9 different QBs and 14 different RBs O'Brian's vaunted offensive system has won a grand total of 1 playoff game.
That 1 win came against a rookie QB starting his first game in the NFL.
So I hope that he has finally seen the light & realized his system has never won anything.
I won't hold my breath though.
Personally I think this conversation is premature. Is he a top 5 QB? He may be top 5 in some (many) stats, but so what?
Matt Stafford is a dam fine QB, but he hasn't lifted that team out of Mediocrity.
& I think that's the kind of QB we're looking for. Can Watson lift this team out of the funk we're in? Like Brady did for the couldn't win it all Patriots, Brees for the Aints, Peyton for the Colts.
I think he has all the tools. I doubt he can consistently win regardless the shape of the rest of this team, like those guys did. Like Favre did, like Roethlisberger did, like Marino did. Even Bledsoe.
Those guys in the league right now, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rogers... five spot wide open.
Matt Stafford is a dam fine QB, but he hasn't lifted that team out of Mediocrity.
& I think that's the kind of QB we're looking for. Can Watson lift this team out of the funk we're in? Like Brady did for the couldn't win it all Patriots, Brees for the Aints, Peyton for the Colts.
I think he has all the tools. I doubt he can consistently win regardless the shape of the rest of this team, like those guys did. Like Favre did, like Roethlisberger did, like Marino did. Even Bledsoe.
Those guys in the league right now, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rogers... five spot wide open.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
"I doubt he can consistently win regardless of the shape of the rest of this team"
What. The. ****.
Nonsensical comment. Watson has THRIVED with some of the worst offensive lines in NFL history, with a pathetic excuse for an offensive coordinator, with a pathetic excuse for a head coach and with questionable talent in the RB and TE department. Still he wins. Still he walks on water. Still he gets it done with ONE EYE.
And still his very own fans question his ability to be a leader of men and show the rest of the team HOW TO BE A WINNER!! Why? Pride.
Dude wins, and what gets brought up?? Why he couldnt hit a few open receivers during the course of a game. LOL
#JesuswithCleats!!!!
I BELIEVE!
What. The. ****.
Nonsensical comment. Watson has THRIVED with some of the worst offensive lines in NFL history, with a pathetic excuse for an offensive coordinator, with a pathetic excuse for a head coach and with questionable talent in the RB and TE department. Still he wins. Still he walks on water. Still he gets it done with ONE EYE.
And still his very own fans question his ability to be a leader of men and show the rest of the team HOW TO BE A WINNER!! Why? Pride.
Dude wins, and what gets brought up?? Why he couldnt hit a few open receivers during the course of a game. LOL
#JesuswithCleats!!!!
I BELIEVE!
Shouldn't it be Jesus in cleats?
I mean, unless he's just walking out onto the field with a ball in one hand and a pair of Adidas in the other..
Like he just goes everywhere with a pair of cleats. At HEB pushing a kart while holding some cleats, at a restaurant with a menu and some cleats, at home watching TV snuggled up on the couch with a fresh pair..
I mean, unless he's just walking out onto the field with a ball in one hand and a pair of Adidas in the other..
Like he just goes everywhere with a pair of cleats. At HEB pushing a kart while holding some cleats, at a restaurant with a menu and some cleats, at home watching TV snuggled up on the couch with a fresh pair..
What's funny is how much Deshaun has done and people still doubt him.
Then OBrien has done so little (has he done anything?) yet people believe in him.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Stockholm Syndrome.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Nahhh SteelB said he was "jesuswithcleats" so he will ALWAYS be #JESUSwithCLEATS to me!!
One guy gets nitpicked to death, the other is given every excuse in the book
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Keke Coutee is in step 2
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
how long before Herr O'Brien just cuts him for looking at him wrong? LOL
I think that's step 3 for O'Brien. Just cutting or trading a guy for peanuts
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Or giving up substantially more valuable picks for other peoples trash and "projects". But who needs 1st or 3rd round picks anyways? Shoot STeelB says all you need is a couple of 4ths, a 5th and the late rounders and you're good to go to restock! Such an easy plan to follow and imitate its a wonder that not everyone around the league is doing it!
We have savants and Prometheus society members among us my dude! Act accordingly!!
I like how other teams dumped guys on us they were likely to cut (Mingo, Hyde, stills) and got substantial assets in return.
Every GM out there knows OBrien is an idiot
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Dump me more guys like Hyde and Stills and keep on dumping
Depends on what we give up
You're so full of it.
They have all of their picks in the next draft if you include comp picks, except their 1st rd pick and they have the best young LT in the game protecting your Jesusincleats blindside. Just admit you hate all things Pats and be done with this.
You're so full of it. I never said anything like this but if I did how would you know since you have me on ignore. Which after posts like this misleading one I'm glad to be a member of your ignore list. Hopefully you add more to the list so I can follow them, they must be sensible posters.
They have all of their picks in the next draft if you include comp picks, except their 1st rd pick and they have the best young LT in the game protecting your Jesusincleats blindside. Just admit you hate all things Pats and be done with this.
For once , we're in agreement …. even if we get there in different ways.
When you look purely at statistics , Watson's really good …. but we were stuck in mediocrity before he came and haven't really been any better since he got here.
9-7 in 2014 with FitzTragic , Mullett and Keenum under center.
9-7 in 2015 with Hoyerable , Mullett , Yates & Weedman , first round exit.
9-7 in 2016 with The Blundering Wizard of Os and
4-12 in 2017 with Watson ,
11-5 in 2018 and a first round exit from the playoffs with Watson.
5-3 in 2019 with Watson. Looking very much like last years team and I pretty much expect the same result - an early playoff exit.
Before I'm willing to put him in the top 5 with the likes of Brady , Rodgers , Brees , Mahomes and Co , he has to do it in the post season …. doesn't matter what you do in the regular season if you flame out in the first round of the playoffs.
Right now , the results are …. average.
You want to be in that elite group , put your superman cape on and beat some of those guys when it counts.
Matthew Stafford. Phillip Rivers.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-rankings-nfl-quarterback-rankings-following-week-8-2019 (sorry if paywall - ask any question about article or ranking i'll answer)
PFF has him at 8 FWIW. Im pretty sure they missed adding the whole "cant make progressions" argument, but Im sure it will be on the next rankings list.
PFF has him at 8 FWIW. Im pretty sure they missed adding the whole "cant make progressions" argument, but Im sure it will be on the next rankings list.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
They're only assets if they turn out to be something. But when you consider that the success rate for draft picks in the NFL is only 53% & the average NFL career is only 3-4 years, i would say there's a decent possibility that those "assets" dont turn out to be much. & that 53% success rate..........that's for 1st rounders..Goes considerably lower for lower draft picks.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@IE_NFL: Deshaun Watson has completed 73.8% of his passes against the blitz this season, highest in NFL.
#WeAreTexans https://t.co/SHSvzOVTTn
#WeAreTexans https://t.co/SHSvzOVTTn
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I also think that Deshaun Watson leads the league in missed progressions. Not a real stat or anything, but its what i've heard. Shrug.
Texansballer74
The Marine
This youngster is out there handling his business. He's on pace to throwing well over 4000 yds, 35+ TD's, rush for 500 + yards, and rush for 10 TD's. Now he does have to do a much better job at protecting the ball because, he's on pace to throwing 10 INT's ( which isn't that bad) and fumbling the ball 10 times. Good thing is either he has recovered most of his fumbles he has right now or one of his teammates has recovered it.
I'm so glad Bill O'Brien set aside his pride for the betterment of this team and Watson health. He didn't simplify his offense but enhanced it, by playing to the strength of his skill players. He is still running the ball up the middle so LOL he didn't give up on everything. But I do understand the reasoning behind that method.
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Really dude , 3 consecutive posts stating the same thing …. we get it , you don't believe he makes any mistakes. Give it a rest.
Some of you seem to think he's perfect and others think the polar opposite.
Its neither - He's a really good football player with exceptional physical talent - that has a few warts.
Fact is one of those warts is he misses an quite a few "reads" be that throwing into coverage or missing open guys.
The fact that he may have completed a pass on that play anyway doesn't change that.
You really need to watch some ALL-22 …. it will be eye opening.
And before you go there , I'm not calling him stupid , this is about vision , seeing , anticipating and processing things in real time.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That can be said for every quarterback in the NFL. How about giving the youngster his just do for being selected AFC player of the month. The man put up some great numbers while leading his troops to a 3-1 record.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@Corrosion if you have access to the coaches film share it. I’d love to be humbled and redirected. I share as much as I can with my subscriptions. I provide links to data or supplementary material. I don’t just blurt out my opinion as fact. I watch the film I do have access to and rewind the plays you guys say he missed over and over again and I don’t see the gross “one hash one read” QB he’s made out to be. No QB makes every read. NO QB MAKES EVERY READ. Some are more experienced to take the easy play and throw the haymaker later - Deshaun is trying to throw nothing but haymakers. He has overcome handicaps in the playbook and on the offensive line. He’s not perfect but in year 3 I’m a pig in mud with the kid.
#jesuswithcleats 4 MVP
#jesuswithcleats 4 MVP
If you rewind the plays we talk about him missing reads on and don't see the problem …. I don't know what to say.
Now , lets clear something up - I never said he was a one hash one read QB …. I said he misses an awful lot of reads. (I did say that pre-draft because that's exactly what he did in college - with much larger windows to throw into).
Part of that is on him and part of that is on OB and his stupid offense where the reads don't seem to flow naturally from one side to another.
You think he's Jesus In Cleats and seem to believe others think he's hot garbage. I'm not in either camp - I think he has all the tools but wonder what he is - What I see is a guy who's average in the pocket but fantastic when he gets off script.
I don't really know what to make of him as a "Quarterback" because I believe the offense is not well suited to him - I'd like to see him with another HC / OC before I handed him a 5 year 190m contract. He's got to be able to string together drives within the scope of the offense , not just make big plays when things break down.
OB aint helping matters and Cal aint helping himself by letting OB stick around. He's going to end up paying that $190m without knowing if he has a great Quarterback or a stat monster.
I'm not in the Jesus In Cleats camp. However, I recognize we have a very talented young QB who will make his share of mistakes, but I also consider the play calling and scheme as a factor in some of his mistakes. I read the article below regarding Aaron Rodgers and how he regressed in the Green Bay offense. It sounds very similar to what we are seeing with Watson and O'Brien's offense. It makes you realize that even a franchise, future HoF QB like Rodgers who had over 10 years in an offense was making some of the same mistakes our 3rd year QB is making. Here are some of the quotes from the article. Does some of it sound familiar?
"Here’s a play where Rodgers has two open receivers to his right but decides to hold onto the ball for an eternity instead of making a throw, leading to another sack…"
"We’ve seen this happen before. The Packers offense stagnates, Rodgers starts to press and it just compounds the team’s offensive issues"
"McCarthy draws up a nice design to spring an open receiver (it happens every once in a while) and Rodgers somehow doesn’t see it and throws to a covered running back instead"
"Here he has Marquez Valdes-Scandling (bottom of the screen) come open on a corner route. And after some waffling in the pocket, Graham also breaks free. Rodgers settles for a scramble that nearly gets him injured"
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/10/nfl-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-offense-problems-blame-lions
By the way. With a new HC/OC, here is an article from this season where Matt LaFleur is giving Rodgers easier pre-snap reads to reduce his off script plays.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/aaron-rodgers-matt-lafleur-green-bay-packers-offense
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/aaron-rodgers-matt-lafleur-green-bay-packers-offense
I checked your link. Still didn't see Rivers or Stafford winning anything of note.
He's far from hot garbage, he's a young player who needs to
learn
If he's missing reads in college and now in the NFL what does that tell you? Do you think he can improve in this area? I have my doubts. This isn't on BOB.
Agreed and BOB/Watson is bad fit, because Watson is avg at best in the pocket and I agree that's Watson is fantastic outside the pocket. The not being able to string drives together is because of the things I listed above and avg accuracy.
For me the question is, do you want to guarantee a guy for 35/40 mil per season that has these issues and more importantly has already had an ACL on both knees in addition to his playing style which will make him more susceptible to injury in the future? I'm not sure that I would be willing to accept that risk even though Watson is a great player.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I dont expect any one piece to be perfect. Watson isnt, the line isnt, ob damn sure isnt.
I dont have a horse in the current race. I dont have any long hashed narrative on who I root for or blame on our lack of success. What I do know is Watson is special.
Had I a say, I wont go back to tj Yates, mallett, hoyer, and all the other ridiculous trash QBs we've fielded for years. Watson is it. We protect him and do everything in our power to make his job easier.
Ultimately, I have more faith in a 1 eyed quarterback throwing TDs then ob's offense.
I'd rather give a QB like Watson $35M+/yr than another red cent to a HC who can't win big with a QB like that..
This isn't about the HC , why does everything gotta be Watson vs BOB?
It's about do you think Watson can improve on areas he's struggled with since college and can he avoid more ACL injuries given his style of play.
Even with a new HC I've got my doubts.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I respect your opinion and everything you question should be. I dont have doubts though.
Unwad your panties, I didn't say anything about O'Brien.
I implied that I believe DW is good enough to lead a team to a SB while I said that I believe a HC worth his paycheck should be able to pull the requisite coaching strings to do so with him.
Hope you're right.
He could just as easily get hurt, with his injury history.
35-40 a yr is a pretty steep gamble with that injury history.
When do you think this team will be a true contender? Next yr is what I'm looking at. I'm not kidding myself that this team is ready to win a SB this yr.
Best case for this franchise is that OB is gone after this year and we get to see Watson with another HC/OC and different system that better utilizes his talents.
Worst case is OB stays , we hand Watson the 180M over 5 years and it turns out that he is only good off script.
I don't want to be the team that pays for Tom Brady and gets Matt Stafford.
Worst case is OB stays , we hand Watson the 180M over 5 years and it turns out that he is only good off script.
I don't want to be the team that pays for Tom Brady and gets Matt Stafford.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yes.