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Tunsil trade... Bad idea for Texans future?

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So throwing away the draft capital made sense in the long run? Tunsil came in and didn't look nothing like the prized OT the team paid for.....why? Devlin was still on the scene and coaching down the rest of the talent. The prized offensive scheme also dumbed down Tunsil's potential whiile keeping the rest of the OL talent stuck in neutral or going in reverse. Has the arrival of Tunsil made the OL better? No....unfortunately, this OL had their best game when Tunsil was on the sideline. You might gather that I'm down on Tunsil.....actually I'm not. I'm down on what it paid to get him here and the OL didn't get better but appears to have regressed once again. Devlin won't go anywhere until seasons end....should've exited right along with OB which shows exactly why this FO and ownership is flat out incompetent.

Yes, if I'm in possession of the draft capital for the 2021 draft......pretty sure a LT could be been picked since it would've been a priority pick. Texans talent evaluators have been suspect at best or does it all fall on the GM's for being so bad. I still want the draft capital. Also, what's the difference in this teams 2020 record if Tunsil isn't here?
So the only way he was worth it in your eyes is if he was an all-pro immediately? That's quite silly considering the flip side of the coin. You know, who would've been starting at LT if he's not there; A clearly done Matt Kalil or a raw rookie who'd only been playing the position for 2 years. Aside from that, you basically would've been sentencing our franchise qb to another year of beatings that he may or may not have been able to come back from. So when you pose the question of whether or not it made sense in the long run to "throw away" draft capital..my answer is unequivocally HELL YES.....for several obvious reasons...A, b/c Tunsil was the bird in hand & you knew he could play & B, b/c he was young enough and getting ready to enter his prime.

But let’s play this out how it actually went down, not play in the hypotheticals & faulty hindsight. Tunsil was brought in less than 2 weeks before the regular season .....not knowing the blocking scheme, playbook or even who he was going to be playing next to. & if you've listened to any o-linemen talk, having chemistry with the guy next to you is a big damn deal. Yet even with the false start penalties, even with trying to balance & learn all that he still played well enough to be a pro bowler. This year, he's playing even better. Only 2-3 LT's have a better PFF grade than him & he could very well be an all-pro.

The o-line had their "best game" b/c the Pats can't rush the passer for ****...Not b/c they were dominating in the trenches. If they were, you'd think your leading rusher wouldn't be your QB. & to answer your other question, go take a peak at that 2018 o-line tape and ask yourself if our o-line is better with or without Tunsil. Better yet, go ask DW4..i'm sure he can clear that right up for ya.

There’s a reason guys like him don’t come on the market very often and there’s a reason they are prioritized in the draft & why teams ask for a kings ransom to trade them...it’s b/c they’re tough to come by and chances are to get 1 of his caliber, you're likely giving up some serious draft capital anyway....either to move up in the top 5 of the draft or to package to acquire via FA...which is yet another reason why all the belly aching about the draft capital given up to get him is silly.

You seen the fallout on this MB alone when Philly jumped us to pick Dillard, so this assertion that you can just pick 1 as a priority pick of Tunsil's caliber and develop them to be even a pro bowler is damn near ludicrous. You're counting the "potential" of what draft picks could be as if they already are & that's not how it works.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Clowney alleges he only learned of the deal to Miami when he came in to sign the tender. Sure they could’ve pulled the okie doke on him and had him sign the tag and subsequently tried to ship him out,
I don’t know. More than likely O’Brien told him upfront because Miami wanted to talk to him about a long term deal. If he wasn’t open to it, they may not have wanted to trade for him at all.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don’t know. More than likely O’Brien told him upfront because Miami wanted to talk to him about a long term deal. If he wasn’t open to it, they may not have wanted to trade for him at all.
Which is sorta what I was getting at. He was only hit with the FA tender b/c at 1 point we were trying to resign him to a long term deal but talks had broken down & the only scenario in which the Texans could've traded him without his approval like OptimisticTexan asserts is if he were already signed to a long term deal..& contrary to what he's asserting, that didn't happen b/c thankfully, we didn't capitulate to the amount of money he was asking for. Beyond that very specific scenario, he was always gonna have some sort of say in where he was traded & it appears BoB tried to be straight up with the dude & let him know "hey look, we're not giving you 20 mil a year, but maybe you can convince Miami, they want to talk to you"
 

thunderkyss

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So why would it have been ok for Miami to take this approach regarding Clowney and not ok for the Texans regarding Tunsil?
1st I never said we shouldn’t approach Miami this way.

2nd the Clowney thing was before training camp starting

3rd we got Tunsil before the 4th preseason game

4th we wanted to see him play on his rookie deal

5th we wanted his rights, regardless what his agent wanted.

6th we still could have franchised him whether he agreed to an extension or not

7th we already conceded we will make him the highest paid LT in the league.
 
1st I never said we shouldn’t approach Miami this way.

2nd the Clowney thing was before training camp starting

3rd we got Tunsil before the 4th preseason game

4th we wanted to see him play on his rookie deal

5th we wanted his rights, regardless what his agent wanted.

6th we still could have franchised him whether he agreed to an extension or not

7th we already conceded we will make him the highest paid LT in the league.
8th it's a rhetorical question

9th what difference does it make on "the Clowney thing" was before training camp...they had since they picked up his 5th year option to decide what to do.

10th what's the significance on when Tunsil was acquired...that doesn't prevent them from attempting to work an extension.

11th you don't give up that much draft capital just because you want to see someone play on their rookie deal, we're not talking about a franchise QB.

12th getting his rights only means you get first dibs.

13th you franchise him and his cap number would've been less than his 2020 number but you just kick the screw up further down the road.

14th I'm not sold on making him the highest paid LT if his play didn't show it. Understood that the market constantly resets but the Texans created the mess and I don't think stats give proper perspective of what takes place.

15th I'm just about halfway through a bottle of Uncle Nearest 1856 and don't know if any of this makes sense :toast2:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
8th it's a rhetorical question

9th what difference does it make on "the Clowney thing" was before training camp...they had since they picked up his 5th year option to decide what to do.

10th what's the significance on when Tunsil was acquired...that doesn't prevent them from attempting to work an extension.

11th you don't give up that much draft capital just because you want to see someone play on their rookie deal, we're not talking about a franchise QB.

12th getting his rights only means you get first dibs.

13th you franchise him and his cap number would've been less than his 2020 number but you just kick the screw up further down the road.

14th I'm not sold on making him the highest paid LT if his play didn't show it. Understood that the market constantly resets but the Texans created the mess and I don't think stats give proper perspective of what takes place.

15th I'm just about halfway through a bottle of Uncle Nearest 1856 and don't know if any of this makes sense :toast2:
It didnt
 

thunderkyss

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8th it's a rhetorical question

9th what difference does it make on "the Clowney thing" was before training camp...they had since they picked up his 5th year option to decide what to do.

10th what's the significance on when Tunsil was acquired...that doesn't prevent them from attempting to work an extension.

11th you don't give up that much draft capital just because you want to see someone play on their rookie deal, we're not talking about a franchise QB.

12th getting his rights only means you get first dibs.

13th you franchise him and his cap number would've been less than his 2020 number but you just kick the screw up further down the road.

14th I'm not sold on making him the highest paid LT if his play didn't show it. Understood that the market constantly resets but the Texans created the mess and I don't think stats give proper perspective of what takes place.

15th I'm just about halfway through a bottle of Uncle Nearest 1856 and don't know if any of this makes sense :toast2:
I listed reasons the Texans probably didn't care about a new contract at that time.

You listed reasons they should.

We know what they did. I'm not saying they were right, but I'm glad they knew they were going into a 5th season with the same problem.

A steep price to pay to let us know they know, but... I mean it is what it is
 
I listed reasons the Texans probably didn't care about a new contract at that time.

You listed reasons they should.

We know what they did. I'm not saying they were right, but I'm glad they knew they were going into a 5th season with the same problem.

A steep price to pay to let us know they know, but... I mean it is what it is
Oh I know and my responses are not about you but more geared toward the inexperienced FO. IMO we have become reduced to being satisfied with just having the team make a decision vs expecting the team to make good decisions netting good results.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Situations aren’t always going to be ideal & I think a lot of people think or operate with the notion that a deal shouldn’t be made unless this is the case.

sometimes you gotta take a step back to take a few steps forward. The DW4 pick is proof of that.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
True, technically it can still work out. But we're over the cap (Tunsil is a big part of that), and we don't have great draft capital next season (largely because of Tunsil once again). Looking at ways we can improve this roster is going to be extremely tough, so I understand when people are pessimistic about our future.
I honestly think if we did not trade for Tunsil, we would need to draft a QB to replace a broken up Watson and a LT to replace him in 2021.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Texans didn't need to get Clowney's approval for a trade to Miami......it would've been up to Miami to make the trade contingent on Clowney willing to work out an extension. If Clowney refused then the deal is off the table but it never got to that once Clowney made it known he wasn't going to Miami.

Texans never had to follow through on the Tunsil trade if he didn't want to negotiate a long term deal. Another blunder of epic proportions b/c they willfully handed the reins to negotiations to the Tunsil camp. So you're right....you can't make him do a deal but you damm sure don't mortgage your future without any assurances.

Every trade executed since the DB trade could've been done better with a more competent FO.
Your first paragraph seems to say whether Texans needed Clowneys approval or not the trade wasn't made because he didn't want to go.
Of course Texans didn't have to pursue deal without extension but that would have folks moaning and she dogging that we couldn't get protection for Watson.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Your first paragraph seems to say whether Texans needed Clowneys approval or not the trade wasn't made because he didn't want to go.
Of course Texans didn't have to pursue deal without extension but that would have folks moaning and she dogging that we couldn't get protection for Watson.
There's getting an answer while ackowledging other areas of dire need and getting an answer while disregarding the impact the move might have on the teams overall advancement. There have been many FA's I would've jumped at signing or players I would've traded for but there has to be a line that screams, the price has gone plaid....time to throttle back and consider other avenues. Like I stated.....like Tunsil, didn't like the price paid. 2 draft(s) is a big price to pay when the defense essentially needs a 8-9 starter make-over.
 
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There's getting an answer while ackowledging other areas of dire need and getting an answer while disregarding the impact the move might have on the teams overall advancement. There have been many FA's I would've jumped at signing or players I would've traded for but there has to be a line that screams, the price has gone plaid....time to throttle back and consider other avenues. Like I stated.....like Tunsil, didn't like the price paid. 2 draft(s) is a big price to pay when the defense essentially needs a 8-9 starter make-over.
8-9 new starters? Are you trying to build a top 5 defense? Because in the modern NFL teams tend to have to be either an offense focused team or defense focused team because it’s pretty much impossible to build both. If we draft and sign as many defense players as you are talking about the offense is going to suffer and that’s assuming your offense didn’t already have major holes, which as is the point of this entire debate, ours did.

The defense has been perfectly fine to let the offense do its job just like KC defense lets their offense do their job and GB let’s theirs do their job. We became an offense focused team the moment we drafted Watson, which makes the Hopkins trade even worse, and that was fine because being a defense focused one wasn’t working but it does mean you aren’t going to have that top defense for very long. It’s only been this year that we have seen how bad it is and again I think part of that is RAC being to old and Weaver to new. Just like a new plan will hopefully help the offense I’m hoping it does the defense as well.

You keep saying pull back and consider other avenues but you haven’t said what those other avenues would be other than fire Devlin which we all agree with but wasn’t going o happen. They drafted Howard and he was a good 3 years away even with proper coaching, they tested the waters on Mack right up till the last second and he might as well been on roller skates, they put in an offer from Trent Brown but raiders offered stupid money and that deal was all but signed before the trade time even started, Davenport was so bad he broke his own teammates foot, and they might have gone after Willians but Washington was playing the fiddle while the franchise burned so no good there.

Tunsil was the only plug and play LT on the market and yes he was expensive but again what choice did they have? Let Watson get broken in half and then use that draft to get his replacement?
 

thunderkyss

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Because in the modern NFL teams tend to have to be either an offense focused team or defense focused team because it’s pretty much impossible to build both.
I don't know if that's true. Teams that get past the divisional round are generally top 10 on both sides of the ball.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Situations aren’t always going to be ideal & I think a lot of people think or operate with the notion that a deal shouldn’t be made unless this is the case.

sometimes you gotta take a step back to take a few steps forward. The DW4 pick is proof of that.
Have they taken steps forward?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There's getting an answer while ackowledging other areas of dire need and getting an answer while disregarding the impact the move might have on the teams overall advancement. There have been many FA's I would've jumped at signing or players I would've traded for but there has to be a line that screams, the price has gone plaid....time to throttle back and consider other avenues. Like I stated.....like Tunsil, didn't like the price paid. 2 draft(s) is a big price to pay when the defense essentially needs a 8-9 starter make-over.
Last yrs draft wasn't given away. Tunsil was essentially their 1st rd pick.
 
Have they taken steps forward?
I think so, if they brought in a real line coach I do believe this line, while maybe not the greatest, would be more than enough to give Watson time to throw. If he doesn’t have to worry about survival as much and is able to have a scheme designed for his strengths then I think we will see vastly improved play from Watson.

If the line is good and the QB is good a team can go really far even if the other pieces are not in place. WR and RBs are pretty easy to come by fairly cheap, whether it’s in later draft rounds or F/A, so that makes your offense able to put points on the board then you can look at your defense.

You don’t need the 2000 Ravens or 2015 Broncos if you have an offense. A decent defense is all you need against most teams if the offense can put 30 points up most games which I think this one could with the above mentioned tweaks.

So yeah I think they have taken steps forward as long as they do right in the HC and GM hire.
 

steelbtexan

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I think so, if they brought in a real line coach I do believe this line, while maybe not the greatest, would be more than enough to give Watson time to throw. If he doesn’t have to worry about survival as much and is able to have a scheme designed for his strengths then I think we will see vastly improved play from Watson.

If the line is good and the QB is good a team can go really far even if the other pieces are not in place. WR and RBs are pretty easy to come by fairly cheap, whether it’s in later draft rounds or F/A, so that makes your offense able to put points on the board then you can look at your defense.

You don’t need the 2000 Ravens or 2015 Broncos if you have an offense. A decent defense is all you need against most teams if the offense can put 30 points up most games which I think this one could with the above mentioned tweaks.

So yeah I think they have taken steps forward as long as they do right in the HC and GM hire.
The eternal optimist.

They've gotta get alot of things right for this to happen. Do you really expect Cal to hire a great GM and that Cal lets the new GM hire the HC of the GM's choice? I dont.
 
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Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
If its a legit franchise LT and he locks down the position for 10 - 15 years... I will take that every day and twice on Sunday every day and twice on Sundays.

Sometimes counterfactuals help...

If someone offered us 2 1sts and a 2nd for tunsil right now would you take it? If you would then the next question is why are LTs such a prized commodity?
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
If its a legit franchise LT and he locks down the position for 10 - 15 years... I will take that every day and twice on Sunday every day and twice on Sundays.

Sometimes counterfactuals help...

If someone offered us 2 1sts and a 2nd for tunsil right now would you take it? If you would then the next question is why are LTs such a prized commodity?
You're not locking him down though, if you can't sign him to more than 3 years at a time while breaking the bank every time. So, yes, I would take that offer right now.
 
You're not locking him down though, if you can't sign him to more than 3 years at a time while breaking the bank every time. So, yes, I would take that offer right now.
But then what do you do for a LT? And where are those 1st in the draft? If we are talking about Jags or any NFC east team then maybe but what if it’s KC or Philly?
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Pro Football is pricing itself out of the market ! His, or any other's value, is just what it has always been - whatever someone will pay for him ! If someone else would give 2-1sts and a 2nd, then what is DW4's value ? It's almost impossible to determine, much less, agree on, the value of a player. The freaky side of the free market !
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Bingo. They let their BS culture agenda make a football decision (yet again) and like all bush league teams, it started the domino effect that will continue to yield below-average results for years to come.

It's tough to ever be hopeful for a franchise when you cannot respect the owners and their seemingly amateur methods of operation.
Exactly. If you are trying to build the OL, you don't bet the farm on a LT. You add players with draft picks and work on the coaching. FA pickups as well as who you might have at the time. It comes down to the coaches and the ability to mold players. Not saying that you get a guy like Tunsil every day. But, he is not a once in a generation type.

Meaning that the coaches play a big role. Look around the league and you can see "nobody players" who when coached well become very good at their position.
 

thunderkyss

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Exactly. If you are trying to build the OL, you don't bet the farm on a LT. You add players with draft picks and work on the coaching. FA pickups as well as who you might have at the time.
I agree, but this is an over simplified view. The reality is every situation is different. Many teams have traded draft picks & had success.

So for us, yeah there was a problem that LT didn't fix. Trading Hopkins, drafting Howard & Sharping, etc... all those things.

I think everything that happened had to for Cal to see it wasn't about talent.

It cost a lot & put the team in a bad situation.

But this team is better off with Laremy Tunsil & without O'Brien
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
But then what do you do for a LT? And where are those 1st in the draft? If we are talking about Jags or any NFC east team then maybe but what if it’s KC or Philly?
Draft a LT then have coaching capable of coaching up players. The top lines in the league aren’t full of top of the draft picks and/or the highest payed players in the game. And this line for Watson really just needs to be at least average instead awful. You don’t have to deplete yourself of draft capital and get yourself into cap hell for 1 guy in a 5 man unit. Then only get that guy signed for 3 years where you’ll be faced with breaking the bank again, or letting him walk and needing to find a replacement.
 
Draft a LT then have coaching capable of coaching up players. The top lines in the league aren’t full of top of the draft picks and/or the highest payed players in the game. And this line for Watson really just needs to be at least average instead awful. You don’t have to deplete yourself of draft capital and get yourself into cap hell for 1 guy in a 5 man unit. Then only get that guy signed for 3 years where you’ll be faced with breaking the bank again, or letting him walk and needing to find a replacement.
Ok and what LT were we going to draft in the low to mid 20s? Also do you play that newly drafted rookie his first year and is he expected to play at an NFL level his first year? If the answer then you are expecting something that even top 5 drafted LTs can’t really do and if the answer is no then you are condemning Watson to another 60+ sack season.

People keep saying “draft a LT” but nobody seem to be able to explain who this drafted LT is. Only LT I know that has dropped to the 20s is Dillard and if you check he isn’t any where near as good as a Tunsil and that’s with a real line coach and sitting a year behind a HoF LT. So again what LT do you draft?
 
Exactly. If you are trying to build the OL, you don't bet the farm on a LT. You add players with draft picks and work on the coaching. FA pickups as well as who you might have at the time. It comes down to the coaches and the ability to mold players. Not saying that you get a guy like Tunsil every day. But, he is not a once in a generation type.

Meaning that the coaches play a big role. Look around the league and you can see "nobody players" who when coached well become very good at their position.
You make it sound like good line coaches, or good coaches in general, are easy to find as well. I agree most aren’t as bad as a Devlin but while you are looking around the league you might look to see have many lines there are that their QB gets hammered vs how many that are walls. Hint, there are more bad lines than good ones.
 

thunderkyss

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Draft a LT then have coaching capable of coaching up players.
It would have been O’Brien & Devlin coaching that guy.

They drafted two guys who played Tackle, Howard & Scharping & still did not feel they had a LT to beat Matt Khalil out.

I agree with everything you’re saying if we had coaches who could coach. But we didn’t.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Ignorant FO and horrible coaching typically yield bad results across the board. There were so many mistakes made before the Tunsil deal that you wonder why OB was even permitted to negotiate the trade to begin with. Once he got done being treated like a prison whore by Miami....the FO cut him loose to get the same treatment by Arizona. This organization has zero concept for the word “timing”!!!!!
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Ignorant FO and horrible coaching typically yield bad results across the board. There were so many mistakes made before the Tunsil deal that you wonder why OB was even permitted to negotiate the trade to begin with. Once he got done being treated like a prison whore by Miami....the FO cut him loose to get the same treatment by Arizona. This organization has zero concept for the word “timing”!!!!!
I'm just going to say this. I don't think OB was 100% the issue. I think he was doing what the FO said. Right down to the DHop trade. Cal didn't want to get into a new deal talk with Hop. So, trade him for something else. OB won games and division titles. Could he have gotten a good OC and then won more? Maybe. But I think he was better than what the FO allowed him to do.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Ok and what LT were we going to draft in the low to mid 20s? Also do you play that newly drafted rookie his first year and is he expected to play at an NFL level his first year? If the answer then you are expecting something that even top 5 drafted LTs can’t really do and if the answer is no then you are condemning Watson to another 60+ sack season.

People keep saying “draft a LT” but nobody seem to be able to explain who this drafted LT is. Only LT I know that has dropped to the 20s is Dillard and if you check he isn’t any where near as good as a Tunsil and that’s with a real line coach and sitting a year behind a HoF LT. So again what LT do you draft?
I don't know. I'm not a draft geek. But I do know there's good o-lines that aren't littered with just top end 1st rounders, or even LTs that high. You can find players and coach up a unit. Like I said, they don't have to be top 5 or 10, just average. Watson is good enough to make up the difference. I mean, look what he's doing with this crap o-line.

You make it sound like good line coaches, or good coaches in general, are easy to find as well. I agree most aren’t as bad as a Devlin but while you are looking around the league you might look to see have many lines there are that their QB gets hammered vs how many that are walls. Hint, there are more bad lines than good ones.
Nobody said it was easy or everyone would be doing it. Just like finding a franchise QB ain't easy. Except here, when we do have one, he gets dogged at every opportunity. And don't confuse any of this with me dogging Tunsil. I have no problem with Tunsil. I do have a problem with the way the Texans handled the whole situation. If Tunsil were here for the next decade like the one poster mentioned, that'd be great. Problem is, he was only signed for 3 years, and already at the highest price of any LT in football. How much is the next contract?

It would have been O’Brien & Devlin coaching that guy.

They drafted two guys who played Tackle, Howard & Scharping & still did not feel they had a LT to beat Matt Khalil out.

I agree with everything you’re saying if we had coaches who could coach. But we didn’t.
Well, that's what's wrong with this franchise. They stuck with this coaching staff for way too long and no one in the building seems to understand anything about football to have done anything about it. Even going forward, I'm not confident they'll get it right.
 
I don't know. I'm not a draft geek. But I do know there's good o-lines that aren't littered with just top end 1st rounders, or even LTs that high. You can find players and coach up a unit. Like I said, they don't have to be top 5 or 10, just average. Watson is good enough to make up the difference. I mean, look what he's doing with this crap o-line.
I don’t think this Oline is as crap as people make them out to be. Tunsil, for example, has allowed one sack all season. With proper coaching I think this could be a very solid line. Also QBs that move around a lot and duel threat QBs are harder to block for. That’s not a knock against Watson it’s just a fact that a QB that can be on the other side of the field the moment you turn your head is going to be harder to defend that one that is going to sit in the pocket.

Lines can’t turn their heads to look where the QB is so they have to judge it based on, the play called, where the rusher is trying to get to and their own instinct. If any of those three things are off then the QB isn’t where the thought he would be. Again that because much harder when the QB moves around a lot.



Nobody said it was easy or everyone would be doing it. Just like finding a franchise QB ain't easy. Except here, when we do have one, he gets dogged at every opportunity. And don't confuse any of this with me dogging Tunsil. I have no problem with Tunsil. I do have a problem with the way the Texans handled the whole situation. If Tunsil were here for the next decade like the one poster mentioned, that'd be great. Problem is, he was only signed for 3 years, and already at the highest price of any LT in football. How much is the next contract?
So how many 10 year contracts have you seen in the NFL? I can think of 1 in the past 30 years. Most contracts are signed for 3-5 years and yeah they are signed at a high price because careers are so short now. Tunsil is the highest paid LT only until the next LT was coming up for resigning. Now covid May have changed things but if you are going to blame the Texans for not seeing covid coming then your expectations are way to high. The cap has always gone up and all signs pointed to it always would go up so contracts were negotiated and signed based on that.

Well, that's what's wrong with this franchise. They stuck with this coaching staff for way too long and no one in the building seems to understand anything about football to have done anything about it. Even going forward, I'm not confident they'll get it right.
A fair concern and I agree with you they did stick with them to long but that is the Texans history. All we can do is either, stop watching football, pick a different team to cheer for or hope the past isn’t prologue and that they learned from their mistakes.

I choose to be optimistic until they prove me wrong because just expecting the worst makes it not any fun to watch.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I'm just going to say this. I don't think OB was 100% the issue. I think he was doing what the FO said. Right down to the DHop trade. Cal didn't want to get into a new deal talk with Hop. So, trade him for something else. OB won games and division titles. Could he have gotten a good OC and then won more? Maybe. But I think he was better than what the FO allowed him to do.
OB just doesn’t strike me as a yes man.....I believe that got his pink slip stamped above all else.
 
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Speedy

Yeller Dweller
So how many 10 year contracts have you seen in the NFL? I can think of 1 in the past 30 years. Most contracts are signed for 3-5 years and yeah they are signed at a high price because careers are so short now. Tunsil is the highest paid LT only until the next LT was coming up for resigning. Now covid May have changed things but if you are going to blame the Texans for not seeing covid coming then your expectations are way to high. The cap has always gone up and all signs pointed to it always would go up so contracts were negotiated and signed based on that.
Didn't say it had to be a 10 year contract. But 3 years? And after what you paid to get him? They already gave up 2 1sts, and made him the highest paid lineman. Where do they go from there? Yeah, he's the highest paid until the next, which may still be him.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I don’t think this Oline is as crap as people make them out to be. Tunsil, for example, has allowed one sack all season. With proper coaching I think this could be a very solid line. Also QBs that move around a lot and duel threat QBs are harder to block for. That’s not a knock against Watson it’s just a fact that a QB that can be on the other side of the field the moment you turn your head is going to be harder to defend that one that is going to sit in the pocket.

Lines can’t turn their heads to look where the QB is so they have to judge it based on, the play called, where the rusher is trying to get to and their own instinct. If any of those three things are off then the QB isn’t where the thought he would be. Again that because much harder when the QB moves around a lot.
Talent wise, I agree with you, this line isn't crap as we make them out to be. But they are heavily underperforming. Don't know why? They shouldn't be this bad at running the ball.

I don't agree with being more difficult to block for a dual threat QB. Unless you think Watson is leaving the pocket when he shouldn't be? Is this what you're saying?
 
Talent wise, I agree with you, this line isn't crap as we make them out to be. But they are heavily underperforming. Don't know why? They shouldn't be this bad at running the ball.

I don't agree with being more difficult to block for a dual threat QB. Unless you think Watson is leaving the pocket when he shouldn't be? Is this what you're saying?
I don't know for sure, i do think there has been times that Watson has seemed to leave the pocket even though it was clean but that could be a survival instinct from his first couple of years.

I still say duel threats are harder to block for because a Manning or Brady style QB you know they aren't going to even think about running unless its the absolutely last resort but a duel threat if they think they can get some yards then they're gone. That means as a blocker you just went from blocking for a QB to blocking for a RB without warning.

Now the flip side is defenses have to both watch out for the pass game and running game every play but we are talking about blocking so in that regard it is harder.
 


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