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Tunsil trade... Bad idea for Texans future?

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
I can't disagree with the very first part. The OL is a mess still and the run game isn't any better. Plus Watson is still getting sacked.

Personal opinion, but I agree that a decent OL coach can coach a fair player and make them adequate. Then draft or trade for more/better latter.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I said it at the time. Bad trade.

It was the type of move bad teams make and at the time people thought the Texans floor was mediocrity. Well here we are.

Owner should've never approved that trade or the Hopkins trade. Both are moves that hurt this franchise tremendously and it will take a good coach and good gm a couple years to fully recover.

Bill couldn't develop talent so his plan was to sign and trade for it. And the more control over personnel he got the worse this team got.

Specifically regarding Tunsil, another thing I said at the time that made it a bad trade is that you were giving up premium picks AND because he was on a one year deal you'd be forced to sign him to a huge contract. So you not only lost great draft capitol but you also lost cap friendly (presumably) high quality rookies.

The much better option (which i also said at the time) was to immediately move on from OB and bring in a staff that could develop players and build around Watson.

Had they done that and hired the right guy Watson and the entire team would be further along in their development, they'd have a better cap situation and this team would possibly be among the elite teams in the league.

But for some unknown reason they allowed OB and company to run the franchise into the ground and run off tons of fans in the process, and here we are.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Let's face the facts. With the great pass rushers around the league, no LT is going to stop them every time. You hope your LT can stop a rush part of the time, and if so, he's considered good. You don't give up 3 high picks and hope for a miracle. You try to find one who's adequate and good at LOOKOUT blocking. "Look out, DeShaun, here he comes!"
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
It's bad in more ways than just what was paid to get him. Bringing him over and not getting a contract extension done then, made it even more costly. Then when you do get it done a year later, it's only 3 years? Not to mention getting themselves in the position to have to reach like that in the 1st place.

Then there's the fact, as already mentioned, that his presense doesn't really do anything with what they have in place as far as talent with the other 4 guys, and the coaching of that talent. So many levels to this. Nothing against the player, but for the overall price it ends up costing in the end, it just highlights the incompetence of what's been going on around here the last 7 years.

We'll see how that coaching changes things next season. Maybe they can still end up getting some value out of it.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
It's bad in more ways than just what was paid to get him. Bringing him over and not getting a contract extension done then, made it even more costly. Then when you do get it done a year later, it's only 3 years? Not to mention getting themselves in the position to have to reach like that in the 1st place.

Then there's the fact, as already mentioned, that his presense doesn't really do anything with what they have in place as far as talent with the other 4 guys, and the coaching of that talent. So many levels to this. Nothing against the player, but for the overall price it ends up costing in the end, it just highlights the incompetence of what's been going on around here the last 7 years.

We'll see how that coaching changes things next season. Maybe they can still end up getting some value out of it.
Maybe trade him... I know his deal is big but someone might be interested. A good LT isn't easy to get, but it's not hard to get a good OL coach (with the right GM and HC which I have doubts of) to make an ok player a good player. Not amazing or anything like that. Just good enough to be a consistent player and won't get the QB killed and help with the running game.

Not to start a subject here. But a good GM and HC very well might trade Watson, Watt, Whit, Tunsil and bring in cap friendly players as rookies. Afterall, most HCs want a system and QB to run it they choose. I'm not saying I want that to happen but it could. And if it gets us closer to the SB I'll be ok with it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Maybe trade him... I know his deal is big but someone might be interested. A good LT isn't easy to get, but it's not hard to get a good OL coach (with the right GM and HC which I have doubts of) to make an ok player a good player. Not amazing or anything like that. Just good enough to be a consistent player and won't get the QB killed and help with the running game.

Not to start a subject here. But a good GM and HC very well might trade Watson, Watt, Whit, Tunsil and bring in cap friendly players as rookies. Afterall, most HCs want a system and QB to run it they choose. I'm not saying I want that to happen but it could. And if it gets us closer to the SB I'll be ok with it.
DW4's not going anywhere

He's going to be picking the GM/HC or at the very least is one of 5 on the committee that's going to be picking the GM/HC. You think if a GM candidate doesn't want the HC DW4 wants that guy will be the Texans next HC?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
How many sacks has Tunsil allowed this season?
I don't believe he's allowed any .... I could be wrong.

Even then , that's not good enough for what he cost to get and keep.

You can't line up behind that guy and get 4th and one when you need it and he doesn't make the guy next to him any better.
The whole OL struggles to run block and pick up any kind of blitz
 

Mangler

All Pro
I don't believe he's allowed any .... I could be wrong.

Even then , that's not good enough for what he cost to get and keep.

You can't line up behind that guy and get 4th and one when you need it and he doesn't make the guy next to him any better.
The whole OL struggles to run block and pick up any kind of blitz
If I remember correctly, Myles Garret beat Tunsil pretty bad on a play that ended with Watson sacked almost immediately.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame


So in a bubble not taking all factors into account? Bad trade. For this team, with this garbage offensive line coaching and development that wanted to protect their present and future franchise QB? A necessary evil.
The gross mismanagement SNAFU was letting Duane Brown leave. If Brown stays Tunsil is irrelevant. Just another case of the Texans shooting their self in the foot.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
The thing is that the Tunsil trade wasn’t a good deal for the Texans because they dealt those picks, the 1 and 2 ended up way more valuable than expected which skews the price upward.

Then you have the win-now mode trade to add the LT, you’re after a SB run when you do that. Texans are 2-whatever this season, last years playoff loss was awful and they never looked in the running with the AFC contenders.

If you roll the dice and make the picks given up, and have 2 or 3 good-great FA’s instead of his contract extention, and then the Texans likely have a much stronger roster in that alternate universe.

So yes, the Tunsil trade was an awful idea, and it isn’t really anything to do with Tunsil.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing to be able to judge with. In hindsight teams were stupid to let Brady fall to 6th round, in Hindsight Texans should have drafted Mahomes, in hindsight Clowney wasn’t worth being drafted 1:1. When you only use hindsight to judge things you have the advantage of almost never being wrong.

The Tunsil trade value wise was right on the mark. Once again here is the break down. Tunsil was projected to go in the top 5 if not top 3 when the bong video came out and Miami got what everyone said was a steal drafting him at 13. At the time Texans were drafted low to mid 20s so to move up to 13 would have cost them at least a 1st round the next year. Then after they moved up they would have had to use their new draft spot to actually draft him. Bringing the grant total of picks needed to get him to two (2) first round picks which is what they paid.

The rest of the trade Texans got Stills, who has been solid WR and at the time was looking like he would be a luxury 3rd in a stacked receivers group, for a next year second which is basically a 3rd and a few other picks so that part equals out.

Again at the time there was no reason at all anybody should think that 2021 1st would equal a top 10 pick because Texans were projected to stay about where they had been, low to mid 20s, assuming no major injury on Watson’s part.

As far as Tunsil’s contract goes yeah he had Texans over a barrel but that would have been the case anywhere he went and is with any non-drafted player. Tunsil was going to reset the market right up until the next stud LT contract comes up just like Watson reset the market right up until Mahomes came up. Every new contract reset the market because, again, no one expected the cap to ever go down because it never has in NFL history.

Finally where exactly would we have gotten a LT if not Tunsil? Howard isn’t even close to playing that and for those screaming for Dillard might want to go check out how he is doing in Philly and that was with a year to sit behind a HoF LT and an actual line coach. On this team he would have been a paper wall.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The thing is that the Tunsil trade wasn’t a good deal for the Texans because they dealt those picks, the 1 and 2 ended up way more valuable than expected which skews the price upward.

Then you have the win-now mode trade to add the LT, you’re after a SB run when you do that. Texans are 2-whatever this season, last years playoff loss was awful and they never looked in the running with the AFC contenders.

If you roll the dice and make the picks given up, and have 2 or 3 good-great FA’s instead of his contract extention, and then the Texans likely have a much stronger roster in that alternate universe.

So yes, the Tunsil trade was an awful idea, and it isn’t really anything to do with Tunsil.

Rod Johnson made it look even worse today .... that offense looked as good as at any point this season in the first half.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
He wasn’t on the market when the Tunsil deal went down. In fact he just came on the market this year so not sure what he has to do with this.
He was already holding out at the time and declared he wanted out of Washington. I recall lots of articles and threads where people were saying Texans should acquire him.

 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Trent Williams was having health issues and sat out that yr.
That's fair about the health issues, but he sat out the year because he wanted an extension and was unhappy with the Redskins medical staff. Supposedly he was ok to play some time during the season?

Either way, I'm not claiming they should have gotten Williams instead of Tunsil. I was just specifying there were other options.

Having the luxury of hindsight, the Tunsil trade was bad.
 
He was already holding out at the time and declared he wanted out of Washington. I recall lots of articles and threads where people were saying Texans should acquire him.

That's fair about the health issues, but he sat out the year because he wanted an extension and was unhappy with the Redskins medical staff. Supposedly he was ok to play some time during the season?

Either way, I'm not claiming they should have gotten Williams instead of Tunsil. I was just specifying there were other options.

Having the luxury of hindsight, the Tunsil trade was bad.
He was holding out but Washington wasn't letting other teams talk to him or accepting trade offers. Just because Williams wanted out doesnt mean Washington had to let him out and at that point it became a pissibg contest that neither party won. Long story short Williams wasnt an option.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
People can talk about how bad the deal was but had it not been made and we’d gone another year with DW4’s blindside not reasonably protected, dude could’ve ended up like Brees with 11 cracked ribs. He’ll he already had a few of those and a bruised lung b/c of the o-line. Then the hindsight would be, “he’s the franchise!! Why didn’t we make a big move to protect him???”

damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
People can talk about how bad the deal was but had it not been made and we’d gone another year with DW4’s blindside not reasonably protected, dude could’ve ended up like Brees with 11 cracked ribs. He’ll he already had a few of those and a bruised lung b/c of the o-line. Then the hindsight would be, “he’s the franchise!! Why didn’t we make a big move to protect him???”

damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Agreed. I didn't like the deal at the time, I thought they overpaid, AND they didn't make sure Tunsil agreed to an extension before the trade. I understand they had to do something, but I disagree with the notion this was their only option, so they HAD to make it happen.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
He was holding out but Washington wasn't letting other teams talk to him or accepting trade offers. Just because Williams wanted out doesnt mean Washington had to let him out and at that point it became a pissibg contest that neither party won. Long story short Williams wasnt an option.
So you think if Houston came to the Redskins and offered two 1sts for Williams, they wouldn't have taken that?

Not saying that's what they should have done, but hard for me to believe the Redskins wouldn't have done that deal.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Nobody denies we needed a good LT, and Tunsil fit that bill. But it's like paying a million bucks for a Honda, yeah, you got a nice car, but you severely overpaid for it and it killed your budget. Not a good plan.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The gross mismanagement SNAFU was letting Duane Brown leave. If Brown stays Tunsil is irrelevant. Just another case of the Texans shooting their self in the foot.
Bingo. They let their BS culture agenda make a football decision (yet again) and like all bush league teams, it started the domino effect that will continue to yield below-average results for years to come.

It's tough to ever be hopeful for a franchise when you cannot respect the owners and their seemingly amateur methods of operation.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's fair about the health issues, but he sat out the year because he wanted an extension and was unhappy with the Redskins medical staff. Supposedly he was ok to play some time during the season?

Either way, I'm not claiming they should have gotten Williams instead of Tunsil. I was just specifying there were other options.

Having the luxury of hindsight, the Tunsil trade was bad.
I still dont see the Tunsil trade as bad. (See Mavs post up thread.) The Hopkins trade was bad.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I still dont see the Tunsil trade as bad. (See Mavs post up thread.) The Hopkins trade was bad.
I agree. All the mistakes that lead up to it & all the mistakes we've made since makes it bad. But for what it was... it's the price of doing business.

I wish we weren't in the position we were in when we made the trade, but we were.

I wish things hadn't played out they way they did... but it did.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I still dont see the Tunsil trade as bad. (See Mavs post up thread.) The Hopkins trade was bad.
This is fair.

I wasn't a fan of the trade when it went down, but I felt the Texans had to get aggressive to take that next step... and I hoped this was that aggressive move to make them a contender. So when I do hindsight in that manner, it was a bad trade. We paid alot of resources for Tunsil, and it didn't make us a better team.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
How quickly we all forget.

2017 we saw the likes of Chris Clark & Kendall Lamm both vying to see who could get our qb's bells rung the hardest by sucking at the position. 2018 it wasn't much better with our "high upside" 3rd and 4th round draft picks in Martinas Rankin and Julien Davenport entering the fold...& sucking. This isn't even talking about the RT spot where we also sucked with the likes of Breno Giacomini & a fading fast Jeff Allen stinking up the joint. We were bad all up & down the line & i'm Pretty sure all of those guys are riding the pine somewhere if not flat out run out of the league just as soon as we moved on from them.

I mean, Did you all really wanna see this happening to DW4 before we moved heaven and earth to get him an NFL caliber o-lineman?


In a weird ass twist of fate, thank god he was already out with his torn ACL or by the time 2019 comes around, we're looking at a Carson Wentz situation & we'd be REALLY screwed.

I say all that to say that the actual ramifications of why we had to make the deal we did to get Tunsil go beyond just getting a “good LT”. By the time 2019 came around, it was clear we had our franchise guy under center & after the beating he took in 2018 with the same "draft and develop" and bargin bin shopping FA approach that had failed miserably, it was time to take a more sure-handed, drastic approach to make sure he was somewhat protected for our forseeable future. Barring a move like that he may not have even entertained resigning with us this year. Also, Getting Tunsil in that deal allowed us to get Tytus who was able to shore up the other side of the o-line at RT.

And as bleak as things look now, there is a core in place for a new HC and GM to build around with a crown jewel that we were able to preserve................. which is more than i'm pretty we'd have been able to say if we'dgone into 2019 without Tunsil.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
I don't believe he's allowed any .... I could be wrong.

Even then , that's not good enough for what he cost to get and keep.

You can't line up behind that guy and get 4th and one when you need it and he doesn't make the guy next to him any better.
The whole OL struggles to run block and pick up any kind of blitz
Sure I agree but line did look much better over all to me and those with me vs NE. Left tackles that don't give up sacks are rare coins and sometime you have to over pay. I have only paid sticker price for one vehicle; but I wanted it.

Tunsil in 2019 was better at run blocking as was the Oline. IMO he was considered to be a good pass blocker in college and with Miami. That was the main tool in his belt, protect the QB. He is doing that. Yes, we want him to improve and he has reduced penalties. The entire O'line regressed this season, why? All started game one then what happened? Scharpie replaced by Kelemete playing until two games ago when he returned to starting all snaps last two games. Has Howard suffered from injury recovery? I know the C19 and other non football issue has impacted this team. I still say coaching is the issue. Even a - Tunsil needs good coaching to progress.


Some info on L Tunsil that some may be unaware of:

 


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