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Tunsil trade... Bad idea for Texans future?

So you think if Houston came to the Redskins and offered two 1sts for Williams, they wouldn't have taken that?

Not saying that's what they should have done, but hard for me to believe the Redskins wouldn't have done that deal.
They may have but how would that have helped us? We still would have paid the same in draft capital and gotten a player that was older and with more injuries. Granted you could make the argument that Williams is a better LT but again you have a shorter career span on him than a Tunsil and I’m not sure when his contract came up it would have been any cheaper.

Plus to be honest I’m not sure Washington would have taken that deal. You forget you are not dealing with a normal franchise when it comes to the team formerly known as the Redskins and their front office makes all other 31 teams front offices look like master traders. At that point they had dug their heels in and it became a point of pride so yeah I can’t say for sure they would have gone for it.
 
Bingo. They let their BS culture agenda make a football decision (yet again) and like all bush league teams, it started the domino effect that will continue to yield below-average results for years to come.

It's tough to ever be hopeful for a franchise when you cannot respect the owners and their seemingly amateur methods of operation.
All franchises do that at some point. Even the vaulted Pats are in their current situation because the owner sided with Brady and forced them to ship Jimmy G out. Every owner in the NFL has at some point let pride make the decision for them. Hell even GB which doesn’t have an owner moved up to draft a QB instead of a receiver because they were mad Rodgers was bad mouthing them.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The gross mismanagement SNAFU was letting Duane Brown leave. If Brown stays Tunsil is irrelevant. Just another case of the Texans shooting their self in the foot.
Lol, more hindsight & rather unsound logic. Its like saying if the Texans hadn't drafted JJ in 2011 they could've draft Aaron Donald 3 years later. While true, it doesn't exactly take into account the actual situation and circumstances that may have led up to why something was or wasn't done.
 
Lol, more hindsight & rather unsound logic. Its like saying if the Texans hadn't drafted JJ in 2011 they could've draft Aaron Donald 3 years later. While true, it doesn't exactly take into account the actual situation and circumstances that may have led up to why something was or wasn't done.
Yeah if only we hadn’t drafted Carr in 02 we could have got Big Ben in 04 or Rodgers in 05. It’s why I hate going back and looking at drafts and saying “If they had waited they could have gotten X player, Z years later”. You never know who is going to be a bust or who is even going to be there to draft. Jets are tanking for Trevor but what if he decides to go back to Clemson another year?

Drafts and F/A are just like anything else, you take the best information you can get and using that make the best decision you can and then you move on. Looking at things in hindsight is a waste of time because it doesn’t change anything and it just confuses the issue.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Sure I agree but line did look much better over all to me and those with me vs NE. Left tackles that don't give up sacks are rare coins and sometime you have to over pay. I have only paid sticker price for one vehicle; but I wanted it.

Tunsil in 2019 was better at run blocking as was the Oline. IMO he was considered to be a good pass blocker in college and with Miami. That was the main tool in his belt, protect the QB. He is doing that. Yes, we want him to improve and he has reduced penalties. The entire O'line regressed this season, why? All started game one then what happened? Scharpie replaced by Kelemete playing until two games ago when he returned to starting all snaps last two games. Has Howard suffered from injury recovery? I know the C19 and other non football issue has impacted this team. I still say coaching is the issue. Even a - Tunsil needs good coaching to progress.


Some info on L Tunsil that some may be unaware of:

Dude could legit wind up an all-pro this year with what he's done and folks would still be in here crying about draft capital.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/laremy-tunsil/10647
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Yeah if only we hadn’t drafted Carr in 02 we could have got Big Ben in 04 or Rodgers in 05. It’s why I hate going back and looking at drafts and saying “If they had waited they could have gotten X player, Z years later”. You never know who is going to be a bust or who is even going to be there to draft. Jets are tanking for Trevor but what if he decides to go back to Clemson another year?

Drafts and F/A are just like anything else, you take the best information you can get and using that make the best decision you can and then you move on. Looking at things in hindsight is a waste of time because it doesn’t change anything and it just confuses the issue.
For us fans it's a waste to play the hindsight game, but I think it's important for the FO to do this. I think it's always important for them to look at past decisions, see where they went wrong, and learn how they can improve.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Dude could legit wind up an all-pro this year with what he's done and folks would still be in here crying about draft capital.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/laremy-tunsil/10647
Agee but I understand the frustration. It is like the guy who is unemployed and then gets a job. For a time the job is great but then after, he thinks "Well the money\benefits could be better. The coworkers could be friendlier and my desk could be bigger and dang I have to work weekends and...."

Then there is the what if things (draft or free agency) had fallen just a bit better or what if GM or HC was better or..

We always think 'what if' and that is great. I bet Dashaun wants Laremy to be better but he darn shooting knows how much better Tunsil is than what #4 had prior.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Lol, more hindsight & rather unsound logic. Its like saying if the Texans hadn't drafted JJ in 2011 they could've draft Aaron Donald 3 years later. While true, it doesn't exactly take into account the actual situation and circumstances that may have led up to why something was or wasn't done.
Except for the fact that they actually did draft Brown with a 1st RD draft pick and traded him to Seattle for a pittance. Plus they traded the first pick in the draft for even less along with another 1st rd pick to Arizona for a cup of coffee. Unsound logic you say...OK then.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Agee but I understand the frustration. It is like the guy who is unemployed and then gets a job. For a time the job is great but then after, he thinks "Well the money\benefits could be better. The coworkers could be friendlier and my desk could be bigger and dang I have to work weekends and...."

Then there is the what if things (draft or free agency) had fallen just a bit better or what if GM or HC was better or..

We always think 'what if' and that is great. I bet Dashaun wants Laremy to be better but he darn shooting knows how much better Tunsil is than what #4 had prior.
well that’s part of the issue. Too many people like to use hindsight in talking about where things went wrong, without including all the variables that went into the decision in the 1st place which is the only way hindsight is useful.

it’s alright to want to be better, but when you’re already pretty damn good, you’re just splitting hairs. That’s that college football mentality.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
well that’s part of the issue. Too many people like to use hindsight in talking about where things went wrong, without including all the variables that went into the decision in the 1st place which is the only way hindsight is useful.

it’s alright to want to be better, but when you’re already pretty damn good, you’re just splitting hairs. That’s that college football mentality.
but we're not already pretty damn good, that's the problem. If we were 7-2 right now, and running the ball well... no one would be discussing the Tunsil trade.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Except for the fact that they actually did draft Brown with a 1st RD draft pick and traded him to Seattle for a pittance. Plus they traded the first pick in the draft for even less along with another 1st rd pick to Arizona for a cup of coffee. Unsound logic you say...OK then.
DB wasn’t even playing when he was traded and gave no indications that he was going to ever play for this franchise again b/c he wanted more money and b/c he was fed up with Smith/McNair. Should we have called his bluff? Possibly. We did Try that.....& he sat out the 1st 7.. That **** didn’t work out for Washington either whom could only get a 5th for Trent Williams......so maybe just maybe we had to get what we could for him.

and the back end of your post has **** to do with DB and Tunsil. Completely different trade that EVERYONE here has said was lopsided. Still, there was more to that trade than just what was reported.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
but we're not already pretty damn good, that's the problem. If we were 7-2 right now, and running the ball well... no one would be discussing the Tunsil trade.
I call BS. There’d be many here nitpicking why DW4 didn’t throw for 400 and 3 sticks yesterday....or why we didn’t blow the Pats out by 40 yesterday.

In relation to Tunsil and what he was brought here to do which is protect DW4’s blindside, yes we’re pretty damn good at LT...pro-bowl, top 10 in the game pretty good.

the viability of the run game isn’t just on him. The fact that we’re not 7-2 isn’t just on him either. Lots of moving parts here.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
DB was asking for the backend of his contract to be guaranteed....that's hardly asking for a raise b/c the Texans drafted the contract.

I 100% believe Hopkins would still be a Texan had OB been pro-active and sat Hopkins down, let him know the team wasn't in a position to give him a new contract but would be willing to guarantee the back-end of his contract with a bonus included. Again, the Texans drew up the contract and honoring it b/c of great play works both ways.

The Tunsil pursuit and contract presented its own set of questions. One, I still believe OB could've gotten Tunsil in exchange for Clowney....whom the the Dolphins really had their eye on. OB went to Clowney to see if he was good going to Miami and Clowney said no. Why, b/c Miami wouldn't have done the deal without having a contract agreement in place before consummating the trade. Texans dunce caps go on immediately when they eagerly make this trade yet never negotiated a new deal before finalizing the trade. Texans and OB really took one up the arse on the Tunsil deal based on the amount of draft capital given up for a player one season away from being a FA. That trade should've ended OB's career as GM on the spot.
 
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Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
All franchises do that at some point. Even the vaulted Pats are in their current situation because the owner sided with Brady and forced them to ship Jimmy G out. Every owner in the NFL has at some point let pride make the decision for them. Hell even GB which doesn’t have an owner moved up to draft a QB instead of a receiver because they were mad Rodgers was bad mouthing them.
It seems the ONLY time that you can compare the Houston Texans to franchises with Super Bowl histories is when attempting to compare their mistakes.
 
It seems the ONLY time that you can compare the Houston Texans to franchises with Super Bowl histories is when attempting to compare their mistakes.
You’re not wrong per say but what do you mean by super bowl histories? I truly asking because if you just mean teams that have won a Super Bowl I’m not sure I’d call that a history, particularly given how long those teams have been around compared to the Texans, and if you mean teams that have won multiple super bowls in a short time frame between wins then that is a very short list made up of the Pats and........maybe the Giants and Steelers?

GB has only won one with Rodgers and Seattle one with Wilson. Most of the rest of the Super Bowl winners were stars aligned type years and then afterwards their teams fell hard. Look at Philly or Denver or Atlanta.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I call BS. There’d be many here nitpicking why DW4 didn’t throw for 400 and 3 sticks yesterday....or why we didn’t blow the Pats out by 40 yesterday.

In relation to Tunsil and what he was brought here to do which is protect DW4’s blindside, yes we’re pretty damn good at LT...pro-bowl, top 10 in the game pretty good.

the viability of the run game isn’t just on him. The fact that we’re not 7-2 isn’t just on him either. Lots of moving parts here.
True, at least some will still complain, but I wouldn't. Tunsil was an aggressive win now move, and sometimes that works out. So if the Texans were winning now, I'd be ok with the move. But BOB took a big swing, and he emphatically struck out.
 
DB was asking for the backend of his contract to be guaranteed....that's ardly asking for a raise b/c the Texans drafted the contract.

I 100% believe Watson would still be a Texan had OB been pro-active and sat Watson down, let him know the team wasn't in a position to give him a new contract but would be willing to guarantee the back-end of his contract with a bonus included. Again, the Texans drew up the contract and honoring it b/c of great play works both ways.

The Tunsil pursuit and contract presented its own set of questions. One, I still believe OB could've gotten Tunsil in exchange for Clowney....whom the the Dolphins really had their eye on. OB went to Clowney to see if he was good going to Miami and Clowney said no. Why, b/c Miami wouldn't have done the deal without having a contract agreement in place before consummating the trade. Texans dunce caps go on immediately when they eagerly make this trade yet never negotiated a new deal before finalizing the trade. Texans and OB really took one up the arse on the Tunsil deal based on the amount of draft capital given up for a player one season away from being a FA. That trade should've ended OB's career as GM on the spot.
This is a false narrative that has gone around here and has nothing to back it up. First Clowney not wanting to go to Miami had nothing to do with his contract and it wasn’t Miami’s decision. At that point Clowney has been tagged and held all the cards and he wanted to go to a contender at worst and mostly Seattle to play with a Brown again. I think that’s why they took such a bad deal from Seattle because it was the only deal on the table Clowney would agree to. Personally I would have made him play on the tag and ran him into the ground like a rental car but that’s me.

Second they couldn’t do an extension because Tunsil held all the cards and YOU CAN’T FORCE A PLAYER TO SIGN A NEW DEAL. Tunsil knew the cap was going up and he knew his price would go up with it so why the hell should he sign a new deal? You can say that they shouldn’t make the trade then and that’s fair but then the question comes back to where would they get a LT?

People on here seem to think teams can do whatever they want and players just have to go along with it. Clearly most of you have never had to deal with unions.
 
True, at least some will still complain, but I wouldn't. Tunsil was an aggressive win now move, and sometimes that works out. So if the Texans were winning now, I'd be ok with the move. But BOB took a big swing, and he emphatically struck out.
Exactly, if the Texans had won a SB or even the AFCC then none of us would be complaining and OB would still have a job......maybe. This happens all the time in the NFL, teams make an aggressive move and it falls flat but unless you follow every team you rarely hear about it if it wasn’t your team that did it. Everyone, however, hears about the win now moves that work out like Denver in 15.

When we failed to win in that year I knew OBs days were numbered, I didn’t think he’d have the power he ended up with before that happened but it was classic boom or bust, go big or go home. Either way after that year we weren’t going to be winning for a few years just like Denver isn’t or Philly isn’t or Atlanta isn’t.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
True, at least some will still complain, but I wouldn't. Tunsil was an aggressive win now move, and sometimes that works out. So if the Texans were winning now, I'd be ok with the move. But BOB took a big swing, and he emphatically struck out.
in the context in which he was brought here, yes it was. But just b/c it didn’t work in that regard, doesn’t mean it can’t work for the teams long term future either. He was young enough and we have him long term now ...so it can and that’s the part people miss when they analyze this trade.

picking up an older vet like Trent Williams and doing the same thing wouldn’t have offered the same contingency.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
in the context in which he was brought here, yes it was. But just b/c it didn’t work in that regard, doesn’t mean it can’t work for the teams long term future either. He was young enough and we have him long term now ...so it can and that’s the part people miss when they analyze this trade.

picking up an older vet like Trent Williams and doing the same thing wouldn’t have offered the same contingency.
True, technically it can still work out. But we're over the cap (Tunsil is a big part of that), and we don't have great draft capital next season (largely because of Tunsil once again). Looking at ways we can improve this roster is going to be extremely tough, so I understand when people are pessimistic about our future.
 
True, technically it can still work out. But we're over the cap (Tunsil is a big part of that), and we don't have great draft capital next season (largely because of Tunsil once again). Looking at ways we can improve this roster is going to be extremely tough, so I understand when people are pessimistic about our future.
We are over the cap but I can’t completely blame the Texans for that. No one saw Covid coming and no one ever saw the draft cap going down. It never had in the NFL history, it has stayed the same or been uncapped but it has never gone down. In reality almost all the other teams cap wise are in the same boat we are and every team will have to make some hard choices.

Where the Texans are in a bad place is that they have no picks and while the Tunsil trade was what cost the picks it wasn’t what made those lost picks hurt so much. Losing Hopkins for peanuts, signing Martin and Mercilous to contract they in no way deserved, letting the defense become a shell of itself. These are the things that make the Tunsil trade and later contract look so bad and the picks hurt so much.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
This is a false narrative that has gone around here and has nothing to back it up. First Clowney not wanting to go to Miami had nothing to do with his contract and it wasn’t Miami’s decision. At that point Clowney has been tagged and held all the cards and he wanted to go to a contender at worst and mostly Seattle to play with a Brown again. I think that’s why they took such a bad deal from Seattle because it was the only deal on the table Clowney would agree to. Personally I would have made him play on the tag and ran him into the ground like a rental car but that’s me.

Second they couldn’t do an extension because Tunsil held all the cards and YOU CAN’T FORCE A PLAYER TO SIGN A NEW DEAL. Tunsil knew the cap was going up and he knew his price would go up with it so why the hell should he sign a new deal? You can say that they shouldn’t make the trade then and that’s fair but then the question comes back to where would they get a LT?

People on here seem to think teams can do whatever they want and players just have to go along with it. Clearly most of you have never had to deal with unions.
Texans didn't need to get Clowney's approval for a trade to Miami......it would've been up to Miami to make the trade contingent on Clowney willing to work out an extension. If Clowney refused then the deal is off the table but it never got to that once Clowney made it known he wasn't going to Miami.

Texans never had to follow through on the Tunsil trade if he didn't want to negotiate a long term deal. Another blunder of epic proportions b/c they willfully handed the reins to negotiations to the Tunsil camp. So you're right....you can't make him do a deal but you damm sure don't mortgage your future without any assurances.

Every trade executed since the DB trade could've been done better with a more competent FO.
 
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Texans didn't need to get approved for a trade to Miami......it would've been up to Miami to work out an extension. If Clowney refused then the deal is off the table but it never got to that once Clowney made it known he wasn't going to Miami.

Texans never had to follow through on the Tunsil trade if he didn't want to negotiate a long term deal. Another blunder of epic proportions b/c they willfully handed the reins to negotiations to the Tunsil camp. So you're right....you can't make him do a deal but you damm sure don't mortgage your future without any assurances.

Every trade executed since the DB trade could've been done better with a more competent FO.
You are right on both counts, but again I ask if Texans don’t trade for Tunsil, even knowing it gives him all the power, where do they get a LT? And if it came out that Texans could have gotten what many considered one of the best up and coming LTs out there and definitely the best on the market and then didn’t because they didn’t want to pay him how do you think this board would have reacted? Forget this board how do you think Watson would have reacted?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
True, technically it can still work out. But we're over the cap (Tunsil is a big part of that), and we don't have great draft capital next season (largely because of Tunsil once again). Looking at ways we can improve this roster is going to be extremely tough, so I understand when people are pessimistic about our future.
Again there’s degrees to all this. Sure we will be hamstrung on making SIGNIFICANT improvement that could potentially vault us into immediate championship contention for 2021...but that’s just ....1 year....and in the context of what we know what was to come for 2021 anyway (New HC/GM needing at least 1 provisional year to get their system in place), the whining about the trade just looks even more silly.

but even in this regard, Going into 2021 this team still has enough talent, draft capital, wiggle room and ability to reshape the roster that could lead to a lot of improvement next year from where we sit now. Better coaching alone is worth at least 2 wins. You add to that A few shrewd move here and there & a savvy pick up on defense via FA and/or the draft by the new GM & we could still see pretty good improvement with this team headed into 2022 with a full compliment of draft picks. IOW, no where to go but up from here.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Again there’s degrees to all this. Sure we will be hamstrung on making SIGNIFICANT improvement that could potentially vault us into immediate championship contention for 2021...but that’s just ....1 year....and in the context of what we know what was to come for 2021 anyway (New HC/GM needing at least 1 provisional year to get their system in place), the whining about the trade just looks even more silly.

but even in this regard, Going into 2021 this team still has enough talent, draft capital, wiggle room and ability to reshape the roster that could lead to a lot of improvement next year from where we sit now. Better coaching alone is worth at least 2 wins. You add to that A few shrewd move here and there & a savvy pick up on defense via FA and/or the draft by the new GM & we could still see pretty good improvement with this team headed into 2022 with a full compliment of draft picks. IOW, no where to go but up from here.
I like your optimism... hope you're right!

I actually don't think it's all doom & gloom as many think, but everything hinges on making good GM/HC hires this offseason. Big IF!
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You are right on both counts, but again I ask if Texans don’t trade for Tunsil, even knowing it gives him all the power, where do they get a LT? And if it came out that Texans could have gotten what many considered one of the best up and coming LTs out there and definitely the best on the market and then didn’t because they didn’t want to pay him how do you think this board would have reacted? Forget this board how do you think Watson would have reacted?
great point..something that the folks who lambast the FO for the deal fail to take into account.
Further I’m tired of this “mortgage the future” argument. The assumption is that we hit on all those draft picks and the future is bright and we’re sitting in in a better situation. The reality is, even if we were to hit on 1/2 of the picks we gave up to get Tunsil & Clowney, DW4 is likely getting his ass handed to him in the meantime and we wouldn’t really know what we’d have until just this year.......MAYBE....or, we actually would know what we’d have and there’s at least a 50% chance that what we would have would be complete and utter ****.

Aside from all that, there would’ve been a chance that BoB would’ve been the guy making the picks for this years 1st and 2nd....& would any of us REALLY have wanted that? Thought so.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
It was really collateral damage honestly. Trading Brown forced the coaches who can't coach up players to trade for Tunsil. Tunsil has played well this year, very well. On the bright side. Its a 3 yr deal. Maybe they can coach up Heck or draft a left guard with tackle skills this year and in 2 yrs, let Tunsil walk.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Texans didn't need to get Clowney's approval for a trade to Miami......it would've been up to Miami to make the trade contingent on Clowney willing to work out an extension. If Clowney refused then the deal is off the table but it never got to that once Clowney made it known he wasn't going to Miami.
Isn't there a rule about trading franchised players?


How many pro bowls does tunsil have?
Not sure what it has to do with anything, but 1
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Texans didn't need to get Clowney's approval for a trade to Miami......it would've been up to Miami to make the trade contingent on Clowney willing to work out an extension. If Clowney refused then the deal is off the table but it never got to that once Clowney made it known he wasn't going to Miami.

Texans never had to follow through on the Tunsil trade if he didn't want to negotiate a long term deal. Another blunder of epic proportions b/c they willfully handed the reins to negotiations to the Tunsil camp. So you're right....you can't make him do a deal but you damm sure don't mortgage your future without any assurances.

Every trade executed since the DB trade could've been done better with a more competent FO.
again with the faulty hindsight views.

Clowney had been tendered but was technically not under contract with us and if I recall, Clowney alleges he only learned of the deal to Miami when he came in to sign the tender. Sure they could’ve pulled the okie doke on him and had him sign the tag and subsequently tried to ship him out, but that’s not “competence” that’s sleaze ball type ****...& Clowney still could’ve nixed it anyway..now you’ve got a disgruntled player on your hands...& how well do u think that would’ve played with other guys like DW4 whom they planned to resign later?

There were also efforts by the FO to resign him a full year before all this but talks were stagnant & then Gaine was fired. So truthfully, You really can’t fault the FO for placing the FT on him when they did either. If they don’t do that he likely walks as soon as the league year opens and they don’t even have the luxury of potentially trading him in the deal to get a Tunsil in the 1st place. It’s also possible that Tunsil wasn’t even on the market until BoB and the FO inquired about him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You’re not wrong per say but what do you mean by super bowl histories? I truly asking because if you just mean teams that have won a Super Bowl I’m not sure I’d call that a history, particularly given how long those teams have been around compared to the Texans, and if you mean teams that have won multiple super bowls in a short time frame between wins then that is a very short list made up of the Pats and........maybe the Giants and Steelers?

GB has only won one with Rodgers and Seattle one with Wilson. Most of the rest of the Super Bowl winners were stars aligned type years and then afterwards their teams fell hard. Look at Philly or Denver or Atlanta.
Or when their QB's started making more than 13.2% of the cap. Coincidence? 26 yrs says not.
 

chicagotexan2

Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
I said it at the time. Bad trade.

It was the type of move bad teams make and at the time people thought the Texans floor was mediocrity. Well here we are.

Owner should've never approved that trade or the Hopkins trade. Both are moves that hurt this franchise tremendously and it will take a good coach and good gm a couple years to fully recover.

Bill couldn't develop talent so his plan was to sign and trade for it. And the more control over personnel he got the worse this team got.

Specifically regarding Tunsil, another thing I said at the time that made it a bad trade is that you were giving up premium picks AND because he was on a one year deal you'd be forced to sign him to a huge contract. So you not only lost great draft capitol but you also lost cap friendly (presumably) high quality rookies.

The much better option (which i also said at the time) was to immediately move on from OB and bring in a staff that could develop players and build around Watson.

Had they done that and hired the right guy Watson and the entire team would be further along in their development, they'd have a better cap situation and this team would possibly be among the elite teams in the league.

But for some unknown reason they allowed OB and company to run the franchise into the ground and run off tons of fans in the process, and here we are.
all this is not O’Briens fault. THIS is all cal McNumbnuts’ fault. He was either asleep at the wheel or is simply a worse owner than O’Brien was at both his jobs and that’s saying something.

oh well tunsil is a very good player but the move hurt us in every way. And it wasn’t even fat Travoltas worse trade, and that’s saying something.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
You are right on both counts, but again I ask if Texans don’t trade for Tunsil, even knowing it gives him all the power, where do they get a LT? And if it came out that Texans could have gotten what many considered one of the best up and coming LTs out there and definitely the best on the market and then didn’t because they didn’t want to pay him how do you think this board would have reacted? Forget this board how do you think Watson would have reacted?
From what I remember.....folks on this board were pretty pizzed that OB used that many high-end draft assets to make this deal with no idea whether Tunsil was nothing more than a 1 year rental or a long term solution. Once it was known that OB wasn't going to let Tunsil be a 1 year rental, pretty much everyone knew that OB was going to be taken to the woodshed in contract negotiations b/c he could ill afford to watch Tunsil leave after a season. This was like watching a 15 year old kid taking over the management of their parents household income.

I would've preferred to watch the Texans steer clear of this deal and continue to develop the draft choices. Seriously, it would've been cheaper to fire Devlin and hire a competent OL coach to teach the young talent. Bad moves compounded by more bad moves.
 
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From what I remember.....folks on this board were pretty pizzed that OB used his that many high-end draft assets to make this deal with no idea if Tunsil was nothing more than a 1 year rental. Once it was known that OB wasn't going to let Tunsil be a 1 year rental, pretty much everyone knew that OB was going to be taken to the woodshed in contract negotiations b/c he could ill afford to watch Tunsil leave after a season. This was like watching a 15 year old kid taking over the management of their parents household income.

I would've preferred to watch the Texans steer clear of this deal and continue to develop the draft choices. Seriously, it would've been cheaper to fire Devlin and hire a competent OL coach to teach the young talent. Bad moves compounded by more bad moves.
I agree many things would have been, and still could be, solved if Devlin was gone but due to I’m assuming having pictures of the McNairs in compromising positions with various farm animals Devlin is still here. So the best we can hope for is to buy talent that someone else has coached. Under those restrictions Tunsil was the best option out there.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Tunsil's worth extends beyond his own play...period. Alternate realities around here that involve the Texans keeping all the draft capital they gave up to get Tunsil & us drafting all kinds of pro bowlers & all-pros with said draft capital fail to include the reality that BoB would still be the HC/GM and would've been the guy making use of those picks.

& this notion that the talent on the o-line could've ever been developed beyond where they were is another dream scenario for the exact same reason I listed above. BoB simply wasn't going to allow a new o-line coach come in and teach these guys another type of blocking scheme & if you've learned nothing since this dude was fired its that he was a micro-managing tyrant of the highest order...& it only got worse as his tenure extended.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Tunsil's worth extends beyond his own play...period. Alternate realities around here that involve the Texans keeping all the draft capital they gave up to get Tunsil & us drafting all kinds of pro bowlers & all-pros with said draft capital fail to include the reality that BoB would still be the HC/GM and would've been the guy making use of those picks.

& this notion that the talent on the o-line could've ever been developed beyond where they were is another dream scenario for the exact same reason I listed above. BoB simply wasn't going to allow a new o-line coach come in and teach these guys another type of blocking scheme & if you've learned nothing since this dude was fired its that he was a micro-managing tyrant of the highest order...& it only got worse as his tenure extended.
So throwing away the draft capital made sense in the long run? Tunsil came in and didn't look nothing like the prized OT the team paid for.....why? Devlin was still on the scene and coaching down the rest of the talent. The prized offensive scheme also dumbed down Tunsil's potential whiile keeping the rest of the OL talent stuck in neutral or going in reverse. Has the arrival of Tunsil made the OL better? No....unfortunately, this OL had their best game when Tunsil was on the sideline. You might gather that I'm down on Tunsil.....actually I'm not. I'm down on what it paid to get him here and the OL didn't get better but appears to have regressed once again. Devlin won't go anywhere until seasons end....should've exited right along with OB which shows exactly why this FO and ownership is flat out incompetent.

Yes, if I'm in possession of the draft capital for the 2021 draft......pretty sure a LT could be been picked since it would've been a priority pick. Texans talent evaluators have been suspect at best or does it all fall on the GM's for being so bad. I still want the draft capital. Also, what's the difference in this teams 2020 record if Tunsil isn't here?
 
So throwing away the draft capital made sense in the long run? Tunsil came in and didn't look nothing like the prized OT the team paid for.....why? Devlin was still on the scene and coaching down the rest of the talent. The prized offensive scheme also dumbed down Tunsil's potential whiile keeping the rest of the OL talent stuck in neutral or going in reverse. Has the arrival of Tunsil made the OL better? No....unfortunately, this OL had their best game when Tunsil was on the sideline. You might gather that I'm down on Tunsil.....actually I'm not. I'm down on what it paid to get him here and the OL didn't get better but appears to have regressed once again. Devlin won't go anywhere until seasons end....should've exited right along with OB which shows exactly why this FO and ownership is flat out incompetent.

Yes, if I'm in possession of the draft capital for the 2021 draft......pretty sure a LT could be been picked since it would've been a priority pick. Texans talent evaluators have been suspect at best or does it all fall on the GM's for being so bad. I still want the draft capital. Also, what's the difference in this teams 2020 record if Tunsil isn't here?
First they had their best game because Pats couldn't pressure a QB to save their life right now. Tunsil has allowed 1 sack this season and that was against a guy that is almost Watt like in his ability to get to a QB.

If you expected the Oline to magically get better just because one player was added then you have unrealistic expectations. No one player, not Brown, not Williams and not Tunsil can make an entire line good. Its just like a combat squad, you can't do the other guy's job you can only do your job and yeah Tunsil has done a damn fine job.

Also i am so sick of people having nothing to make their argumnet except hindsight. You're argument is that it would be better to have that draft capital for the new GM to use well thats a, frankly, stupid argument. When the trade was made no one had a clue, including the Texans, that it would be a new guy that would have been using those picks.

Also you are, as Tex said, assuming that those picks would be used to not only draft a LT but draft a good one. That is a lot of assuming and no history to back it up. LT was a priority when they drafted Howard, it should have been a priority right after or before drafting Watson. Multiple drafts and multiple GMs and no LT so what makes you think it would be a priority now? Particularly if the new HC wants better receivers or RBs so his scheme works better.

None of this of course answers the question of where this mythical LT was going to come from. Tunsil was absolutely worth the price, his price was right on the mark for what we paid and he has been the kind of LT that we paid for. People just don't like the trade because OB made it so they cant look at it objectively.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
First they had their best game because Pats couldn't pressure a QB to save their life right now. Tunsil has allowed 1 sack this season and that was against a guy that is almost Watt like in his ability to get to a QB.

If you expected the Oline to magically get better just because one player was added then you have unrealistic expectations. No one player, not Brown, not Williams and not Tunsil can make an entire line good. Its just like a combat squad, you can't do the other guy's job you can only do your job and yeah Tunsil has done a damn fine job.

Also i am so sick of people having nothing to make their argumnet except hindsight. You're argument is that it would be better to have that draft capital for the new GM to use well thats a, frankly, stupid argument. When the trade was made no one had a clue, including the Texans, that it would be a new guy that would have been using those picks.

Also you are, as Tex said, assuming that those picks would be used to not only draft a LT but draft a good one. That is a lot of assuming and no history to back it up. LT was a priority when they drafted Howard, it should have been a priority right after or before drafting Watson. Multiple drafts and multiple GMs and no LT so what makes you think it would be a priority now? Particularly if the new HC wants better receivers or RBs so his scheme works better.

None of this of course answers the question of where this mythical LT was going to come from. Tunsil was absolutely worth the price, his price was right on the mark for what we paid and he has been the kind of LT that we paid for. People just don't like the trade because OB made it so they cant look at it objectively.
First off....I didn’t like the trade from the get-go so no hindsight 20/20 was required.

If Tunsil was held to the same frivolous expectations that Watson has been held to then it should be a massive disappointment that Tunsil couldn’t make the personnel on the OL great.

I’ve stated numerous times that I believe the OL talent is on the roster but is being coached and schemed down.

This team wasn’t a Tunsil away from turning the corner b/c anyone with a set of eyes could see the defense was in a irreparable tailspin that would require multiple solid drafts and smart FA signings to fix.
 
First off....I didn’t like the trade from the get-go so no hindsight 20/20 was required.

If Tunsil was held to the same frivolous expectations that Watson has been held to then it should be a massive disappointment that Tunsil couldn’t make the personnel on the OL great.

I’ve stated numerous times that I believe the OL talent is on the roster but is being coached and schemed down.

This team wasn’t a Tunsil away from turning the corner b/c anyone with a set of eyes could see the defense was in a irreparable tailspin that would require multiple solid drafts and smart FA signings to fix.
First you can't compare a QB and a LT because a QB can make an entire team look better, Brady did it for years.

Second i dont think anyone thought we were a Tunsil away from a championship but if we didnt have someone guarding Watson's blindside then he was going to get destroyed and if we lost him we sure werent going anywhere.

Finally the defense has been fairly decent up until this year but RAC often had as many bad calls as OB did which made if look worse. I agree it was and is going to take several picks to rebuild it but you just said earlier we would have used those picks to find a LT. You can't pay two bills with the same coin and you can't draft two players with the same pick so which would you have used it for, drafting a LT or working on the defense? And which LT or defense player were you going to get at 23?
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
First you can't compare a QB and a LT because a QB can make an entire team look better, Brady did it for years.

Second i dont think anyone thought we were a Tunsil away from a championship but if we didnt have someone guarding Watson's blindside then he was going to get destroyed and if we lost him we sure werent going anywhere.

Finally the defense has been fairly decent up until this year but RAC often had as many bad calls as OB did which made if look worse. I agree it was and is going to take several picks to rebuild it but you just said earlier we would have used those picks to find a LT. You can't pay two bills with the same coin and you can't draft two players with the same pick so which would you have used it for, drafting a LT or working on the defense? And which LT or defense player were you going to get at 23?
One thing is for certain....I made many post(s) in the past regarding this very subject so you are welcome to back and read them versus me regurgitating them. Some could be spot on in reflection and some could be off....that’s the wonderful world of message board opinions.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
You didn't like the trade because they didn't sign him to an extension first... which he would have been foolish for agreeing to
Exactly....walk away from the deal if it’s not going to work in your favor. Visit the issue again later. Use you draft to find answers b/c financially it just makes more sense.
 


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