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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
Ire Ire Ire sire
PapaL
Loose Screw
Kinda quiet around here but here's a breakdown of Clowney vs Cowboys OL. Same game folks were saying the DL was being owned.
Anytime you can limit Zeke to 20 car 54 yrd 2.7 ypc 0 TD, that's a damn good performance.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1049854542467223552?ref_src=twsrc^twitterkit
Anytime you can limit Zeke to 20 car 54 yrd 2.7 ypc 0 TD, that's a damn good performance.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1049854542467223552?ref_src=twsrc^twitterkit
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
t wasn't our great DL. ILet me remind you..............from my post in the Texans Vs Cowboys Injury Report:
"RB Ezekiel Elliott (knee)........last week had an excellent game, but was seen limping on the sideline off and on during a good part of the game. He was reported to have a knee and ankle issue. In fact what he has is an ankle sprain and a knee bursitis. Although he is expected to play Sunday,he is likely to be affected, especially by the bursitis. Every time his knee hits the ground, you can expect the knee to swell and affect his production."
..............like hunting a wounded duck in wired pen......
PapaL
Loose Screw
Zeke was healthy enough to play as was our constantly injured DL.
Between JDC's knee and JJ's back both being held together with masking tape and putty, I don't think anyone wants to compare injury history with either of those guys.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If an RB has no wheels, it doesn't matter who is on the other side to greet him.
Shishkabob
All Pro
even if he had been at 100% he didn't have much room to operate all night.
PapaL
Loose Screw
If the defender has no wheel or back, shouldn't matter who the RB is. You've always said JDC's injuries will end his career earlier than expected so why when he has a good game it's because of something else? In the game thread you said he hasn't done squat and was dominated. Watching the game showed otherwise; film confirmed. JDC is one of, if not, the best run stoppers in the league. If Zeke was in for 50/62 offensive plays that means he wasn't injured. Sorry, it's a cop out. Players play hurt every game.
Shishkabob
All Pro
JDC was going against a former 1st team all pro, and arguably the best LT in the game today. He was never going to win every rep, but he did get his against Smith, and made Smith look silly on more than 1 occasion. Without JDC I do not think we win that game with how bad we were at converting touchdowns. With JDC in game 2 I think we win that game against the titans. The only time they moved the ball was running opposite of Watt, with JDC on the field they would've had no where to go.
Clowney did have a strong game, actually the second week in a row he was strong and against the best Dallas O-lineman on the field.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I dont think you typically get much trade value for an existing player in the NFL, so if he has a solid year, franchise him, gets hurt we may need to let him look around. I find it odd GMs give up large draft equity for unproven college kids, but not for known NFL quantities. Think it must be the wear and tear and cheap rookie deals that factor in
If someone wants to throw crazy picks at us listen, I dont expect it
If someone wants to throw crazy picks at us listen, I dont expect it
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I dont think you typically get much trade value for an existing player in the NFL, so if he has a solid year, franchise him, gets hurt we may need to let him look around. I find it odd GMs give up large draft equity for unproven college kids, but not for known NFL quantities. Think it must be the wear and tear and cheap rookie deals that factor in
If someone wants to throw crazy picks at us listen, I dont expect it
If someone wants to throw crazy picks at us listen, I dont expect it
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
oh give me a ******* break .. really doc really? So now its because Elliot was hurt that JD had a good game? What about last week? This is a ******* joke already. Simply say you dont like him because X .. all this red herring crap needs to stop. Its better to stay out of the thread until that inevitable injury so you can come in here thumping your chest. (cough cough DUANE BROWN cough cough)
Clowney is the best run stopping DL in professional football for two years now and more amazingly is doing it on one knee, or a knee that is FOR SURE WITHOUT A DOUBT GOING TO CAUSE HIS CAREER TO END PREMATURELY .. WITHOUT A DOUBT!
******* disgrace. Keep killing em JD. Afterwards bend this organization over for every last red cent they have or make it such a shitshow they have no other choice but to trade you and get SQUAT back in return, you know the usual TEXAN way.
Clowney is the best run stopping DL in professional football for two years now and more amazingly is doing it on one knee, or a knee that is FOR SURE WITHOUT A DOUBT GOING TO CAUSE HIS CAREER TO END PREMATURELY .. WITHOUT A DOUBT!
******* disgrace. Keep killing em JD. Afterwards bend this organization over for every last red cent they have or make it such a shitshow they have no other choice but to trade you and get SQUAT back in return, you know the usual TEXAN way.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I mean the rookie contracts have a lot to do with it, do you want to lose high picks and a lot of cap space too? But you see solid return for worth while players, Mack netted 2 first rounders
PapaL
Loose Screw
As a fan I'd like a healthy JDC handsomely paid and productive in Houston.
As someone that follows the team, I'm still in the franchise tag and wait wagon.
But if I was JDC, I'd get every single penny I could. My personal health and long term financial stability are worth more than the typical 8-8 Texans season.
As someone that follows the team, I'm still in the franchise tag and wait wagon.
But if I was JDC, I'd get every single penny I could. My personal health and long term financial stability are worth more than the typical 8-8 Texans season.
Ever heard the name Khalil Mack ?
Typically you might not but like in the Draft it just takes one team to go nutz over a player and draft him 2 rounds earlier than everyone else expected.
So you're saying there might be an anti-Clowney bias around here?
I think given the documented injuries to Clowney - and Watt too for that matter - the fact that they are balling out (the best they can) should be saluted.
Personally I'm a big fan and have always been a big Clowney fan but there's no denying JDs injury history has a negative effect on his market value.So you're saying there might be an anti-Clowney bias around here?
I think given the documented injuries to Clowney - and Watt too for that matter - the fact that they are balling out (the best they can) should be saluted.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Clowney may have had a decent game, but my opinion was in rebuttal to Clowney being responsible for Elliot's poor show. My post was specifically addressing Elliot, his state and his performance. Elliot was going against the the entire front 7 (and sometimes the secondary) with acutely injured knee and ankle (prior to our game, he never once made the Injury Report). Anything that one wants to make beyond that, feel free.
That's a good strawman argument. Again, the post was directed to Elliot's performance. And Your sarcasm doesn't make your argument any stronger. My opinion of Clowney's future hasn't changed and is well-founded in medical substance. He may be that "miracle child," and I'll be just as happy as anyone to see that. You see, I don't see this as a contest to see who can win. You're entitled to your opinion, but I can see that you don't feel that I am entitled to mine.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Elliot had a career game the week before on the same hurt knee, every player in the league is playing with an injury at this point, Clowney I'm sure is still dealing with his back and elbow issue that kept him out week 2. Zeke wasn't hobbled to the point he wasn't playing like himself, when there was room to run he could still get his wheels going, he could still make his cuts. The Texans defense as a whole just had a great game plan to shut him down, Clowney was a big part of that game plan, and you can see the difference he makes in our run defense when he is out there compared to when he is not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
That was my thread.. I will butt out now.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Elliot sustained minor injuries to his ankle and knee mid Sept. They were never felt to be affecting his performance, and in turn he was never placed on any of the Week 1 through Week 4 Injury Reports. He acutely re-injured/aggravated his knee and ankle in Week 4, and for the first time and only then was felt to be affected enough to find himself on the Week 5 Injury Report.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Happened the game before ours.So Clowney blew up Zeke's knee?
Texansballer74
The Marine
So Clowney blew up Zeke's knee?
KJax sent him to the sidelines after hit made that great tackle in the trenches. Stopping him for a 1 yard gain.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Reading your post you'd think they were matched up one on one like they were playing basketball. Sorry Doc but you're off base. Clowney still had to get through a healthy pro-bowl LT and a slew of blockers before getting a chance to even see where Zeke was. Zeke had an off day because the defense 100% focused on him and let Dak beat them. You can claim Zeke was injured, I'll continue to claim our DL was more injured.
PapaL said:
Where exactly did I say Clowney was responsible for Zeke's poor showing? Seems like you're the one with the strawman argument here. You said "It wasn't our great DL. ILet me remind you..............from my post in the Texans Vs Cowboys Injury Report:" Game thread you said the DL was being tossed around, more than once if I recall. Go watch the film, the played run damn near every snap. As I said, the DL controlled the LOS that game. You just added that nonsense about Clowney being responsible to Zeke's poor showing. I never said that.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Every player in the NFL can use this excuse, Zeke was good to go that game. Our defense was just better, our dline dominated their oline Zeke had no where to go on most of his touches. a 100% healthy Zeke would not have faired much better with how we played them
The main reason the defense looked as good as it did was the Cowboys didn't have the WR's to take advantage of the weakness at CB.
The main reason the defense looked as good as it did was the Cowboys didn't have the WR's to take advantage of the weakness at CB.
Shishkabob
All Pro
not even the topic we are discussing
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
When I read your post, it was easy to take it as a strawman argument.........first part, how well Clowney did against the OL, then immediately followed by Elliots poor stats. If you meant them to be independent comments and not mean them to display cause and effect, then I took it wrong and I would not consider your post a strawman argument.
My comments during the game specifically reflected how we looked being tossed around during too many of our pass rush plays.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
How many of these exist, give me a deal a year at that level that has happened and dont point at the one deal in 5 years for an existing star. Of course I know about Khalil, but that is freaking rare. I did say if someone offers I give a listen and likely would trade him if our doctors dont want to give a nod to a 4 year deal and we get reasonable equity. So most likely is still franchise
For two ones, I move his sh!t personally, not because he isn't a good player, but because we could get two studs at cheap deals who may not be on a short fuse. I cheer and hope JD keeps churning out his really good run stuffs, and average pass rush. That is valuable in the league, but is it worth $20m locked up for 4 years?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
so if the dude kills it this year .. all pro again whatever .. boom franchise tag .. guy plays ball, comes back next year .. KILLS IT AGAIN .. what then? Franchise tag again because some people expect his knee to blow up at some point in the future based on 'well founded substance' well I can always say that there are outliers in any broad stroke of a comment like that. Some of the same health prognosticators said Duane Brown would never play football again, so I'll take that with a grain of salt and continue to respect and commend the man for doing great RIGHT NOW with no holding back because of some future event that isnt guranteed to happen. Seems like some sad souls just want to see this dude drop in order to justify their claims.
Where are the real fans at?
PapaL
Loose Screw
I think we have to be safe when it comes to JDC's contract. Injury protection and games played incentive type stuff along with a hefty guarantee that is paid out before DW4 is due for his extension. The QB market is more terrifying than edge rusher market IMO. But you're right, he's getting paid somewhere. If it's not us, I hope we get some great picks out of it. At this point it's a waiting game.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I agree, but at what point is it paralysis by analysis and ignoring what is actually going on in the field? Clowney apart from some stupid sideline stuff has been an exemplary citizen, and great player. Why did McKinney receive his huge payday and then proceed to **** the bed to start the season? Because he was 'healthy'? Its just a strange stance and while I understand the economics of the situation I hate the detached fan sentiment.
Clowney is a Texan, he is kicking ass as a Texan we should reward him for that, not punish him.
and you know what if he gets hurt on the big contract then he gets hurt, It can happen at any time to any player with a clean bill of health or not, some of us are stuck in the mud by what others are saying and not paying attention to what is actually going on.
I love Doc, he is an invaluable resource to this forum and a part of that inner circle of dudes that where around "before this site was even a twinkle in Caks eye" but none of us are infallible here, Doc included.
Shishkabob
All Pro
on the flip side of this we gave JJ a mega deal, he was well worth it at the time and did not have the injury concerns that JDC carries, and he missed almost 2 years. So yea injuries can happen to anyone at any time
PolarBear
Noob
Your criticism of Doc is way over the top, and your continual whining about "Clowney being punished" is not grounded in fact. Credit to JD, as I haven't heard HIM complain.
Clowney's making $12.3M this year, nearly transitional tag money. He'll have made about $35M in his first 5 seasons in the NFL.
Clowney if able to play at a decent level, will make about $15M next year on a transitional tag or franchise tag.
The Texans have every right to protect themselves given the huge risk of his knee and other related injuries, and would be stupid not to do so - either by limiting guaranteed money on a "long-term deal", or by franchise/transition tagging him next year (and maybe the year after).
BTW - I wish coach had put you in the 4th quarter, so that you would have won state...and then went pro....and then you'd be making the millions like Clowney!
PolarBear
Noob
FWIW - If Clowney were to franchised 3 years in a row, I believe by current rules (requiring at least 120% of previous year pay for consecutive franchise tags) that he'd get at least $15M in 2019, $18M in 2020 and $21.6M. There are worse fates...and best case I don't see him getting much more than $25M in guaranteed money, given the condition of his knee.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Nobody is above reproach on here Doc has made mistakes in his profession and if he says otherwise then I'll call him a liar. Its part of being a human. So because Doc has his PHD and is well standing contributor here and has based his opinion on very sound medical 'facts' and probabilities does that mean that Doc will be 100% right?
Everyone keeps talking about JDC's knee as if its on a countdown and all I see is an All Pro out there being a bonafide disruptor. What does how much money Clowney has made in his current deal have to do with the current market? First level thinking has been a detriment to this franchise and many of its fans for a long time. Indifference has taken over, and its sad that guys here are trying to look out for Uncle Bobs money as if the team has any idea on how to spend it properly to begin with.
Take care of your guys, it will send a good message to the rest of the league and will help reestablish positive sentiments about free agents;think about it; all that money last year and no high profile free agent wanted to come play for the Texans, why is that? Obviously its not only about the money when players are choosing whether to play here or not, and that starts with a good culture.
Most sensical thing to do would be trade the guy to a team that values him more and move on, but then you have the psycho's who would rather the guy sit out as a malcontent then to reward him or cut the strings. PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
And the last part of your post I especially have to strongly agree with you.
Tyrann Mathieu ring a bell?
Speaking of not being 100% right all the time, did you forget that Mathieu CHOSE to come to the Texans??
you beat me to it.
Disagree with the injury part of your post. I dont want another Cushing scenario. I would trade him if I could get a 1st or two 2nds so I could rebuild the OL and I dont trust Clowney's knee. It seems like he has knee surgery every offseason. If I cant trade him then the franchise tag is the way to protect yourself.
As far as other players not wanting to come here, you have to pay the most to get top tier FA's to come here due to Uncle Bob. Uncle Bob ain't gonna pay top $$$$ for any FA's. It is what it is.
Shishkabob
All Pro
let's derail another thread with steelb's hatred of McNair. If a player is willing to take $7 mil to play for your team, why pay him more?