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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

welsh texan said:
Well, I'd actually dispute that.
Say you don't want to commit to him long term due to health concern, maybe you can say I'm happy tagging him but not unhappy trading him. You bait that trade by transition tagging him, with a set high value for compensation.

I think it does make sense.
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How does it make sense over the franchise tag which carries compensation?

You don't get trades out of the transition tag. They just sign him and the Texans have the option to match.
 
infantrycak said:
How does it make sense over the franchise tag which carries compensation?

You don't get trades out of the transition tag. They just sign him and the Texans have the option to match.
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Got mixed up thought any signing team had to give up a 1 to sign him. My bad.
 
texan279 said:
I haven't watched all of the game today, how many penalties has Clowney had today? 3 or 4?
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You have to balance that against his truly disruptive performance today.

Can't remember the last time both he and Watt were healthy at the same time. Has it ever happened that they both played that well in a game together?
 
DocBar said:
Trading Clowney after 2017 was the Texans best shot at getting maximum value for Clowney. I would love to know if any teams asked about his availability and if they made any offers. His play so far, in 2018, leaves a lot to be desired and he's a ticking injury time bomb. Going into the season, I was on the "tag him for two years or trade him" bandwagon. Now I'm thinking more along the lines of using the transition tag or just letting him walk, barring a trade.
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any changes in thought after today? He and JJ could have similar day against Dallas. If there had been in any offers or teams asking about him, it would only double pages in this thread resolving nothing.
 
badboy said:
A possibility is Clowney wants to use his 2017 play to encourage other teams to come forth in a trade during this season or in the off season with an acceptable contract for the free agent. If he plays well and remains healthy it would encourage Houston to extend; if he is injured Texans probably will not want him and others might but would be able to offer less satisfactory deal. IMO I think the best offer [if any] would be done during the season:
1. 2019 draft offers several very good DEs and OLBs if a team cannot get him now. Middle of pack teams may make great offer to have CLowney take them deep or save a coach's job.

2. Team offering deal now controls him as does Houston for this season and 2 tags.

My thought next two games Clowney has great not just good games or he becomes trade bait. I'm not saying give him away but he should be worth what we got for D. Brown a third 2019 draft and a second 2020. A 30 + LT got three year extension with $16 million guaranteed. Talk about 25 YOA Clowney has had him at about that for annual guarantee for couple seasons. He might be worth even more.
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JD made positive strides today for someone to give him more money. Dallas should be another good game for him and Watt. Just hope Reader gets back to his earlier ways.
 
badboy said:
JD made positive strides today for someone to give him more money. Dallas should be another good game for him and Watt. Just hope Reader gets back to his earlier ways.
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Still want to trade JD for pick(s) ? I do.
I've been a big Clowney fan since day one, still got my #90 T-shirt (I'm too tight to buy those expensive jerseys).
If somebody offered a 2nd round pick I'd jump on it.
 
Team has no leverage lol ... Clowney is doing what he's supposed to do. Go out there and dominate. If this team shows you no long term commitment then dont commit to them. I see Clowney pulling a Leveon Bell and creating a circus until he's traded for hardly anything in order to stop the distraction.

You wont get a high pick for Clowney when everyone knows he doesnt want to be here because the team never committed to him because of this phantom injury that still hasnt occurred but certainly will according to high level message board contributors and water cooler analysts.

Trade him now for a 3rd or 4th and call it a win. If the GM had any inkling of a pair of nuts he'd jump in on Leveon since he isnt hurt ... ohhhh yea wait he's too old. LOL they are either injury prone or too old around here.

And we wonder why the football gods hate us.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Team has no leverage lol ... Clowney is doing what he's supposed to do. Go out there and dominate. If this team shows you no long term commitment then dont commit to them. I see Clowney pulling a Leveon Bell and creating a circus until he's traded for hardly anything in order to stop the distraction.

You wont get a high pick for Clowney when everyone knows he doesnt want to be here because the team never committed to him because of this phantom injury that still hasnt occurred but certainly will according to high level message board contributors and water cooler analysts.

Trade him now for a 3rd or 4th and call it a win. If the GM had any inkling of a pair of nuts he'd jump in on Leveon since he isnt hurt ... ohhhh yea wait he's too old. LOL they are either injury prone or too old around here.

And we wonder why the football gods hate us.
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No one has said Leveon is to old at 26, but I think the steelers asking price is to high for what amounts to a half a season rental or less. Leveon doesn't want to play under the tag, even if traded he will have to play under the tag, you couldn't sign him long term until after the year in which he still might want to hit the open market. So why trade a high round pick for a player that still might not show up until week 11, and could walk after his 5 or 6 games with your team?
 
IDEXAN said:
Still want to trade JD for pick(s) ? I do.
I've been a big Clowney fan since day one, still got my #90 T-shirt (I'm too tight to buy those expensive jerseys).
If somebody offered a 2nd round pick I'd jump on it.
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If the offer is right all but Hop and Watson trade bait. Having said & evaluating roster I want a high second and a third 2019 draft. If [there's that word again] Clowney used correctly, given some breaks to rest certain plays and if JJ remains healthy my price will be going up. Market has to have sat up and taken notice yesterday.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Team has no leverage lol ... Clowney is doing what he's supposed to do. Go out there and dominate. If this team shows you no long term commitment then dont commit to them. I see Clowney pulling a Leveon Bell and creating a circus until he's traded for hardly anything in order to stop the distraction.

You wont get a high pick for Clowney when everyone knows he doesnt want to be here because the team never committed to him because of this phantom injury that still hasnt occurred but certainly will according to high level message board contributors and water cooler analysts.

Trade him now for a 3rd or 4th and call it a win. If the GM had any inkling of a pair of nuts he'd jump in on Leveon since he isnt hurt ... ohhhh yea wait he's too old. LOL they are either injury prone or too old around here.

And we wonder why the football gods hate us.
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Team has all leverage IMO as they control him; as season progresses even the high rank teams will have injuries & even those who don't will see a player that may take them deeper. We gambled on his health by not moving him before contract became guaranteed. Others should want that gamble also. If we don't get offer we want and if he is playing as he did vs Colts, we keep him. Money is not an object as of now.
 
Shishkabob said:
No one has said Leveon is to old at 26, but I think the steelers asking price is to high for what amounts to a half a season rental or less. Leveon doesn't want to play under the tag, even if traded he will have to play under the tag, you couldn't sign him long term until after the year in which he still might want to hit the open market. So why trade a high round pick for a player that still might not show up until week 11, and could walk after his 5 or 6 games with your team?
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Yes one person did say Bell was too old to trade for.

Where do you get a new contract can't be worked out?
 
infantrycak said:
Yes one person did say Bell was too old to trade for.

Where do you get a new contract can't be worked out?
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Players with unsigned tenders can't be traded until signed. I dealt with this particular aspect of Bell's situation while an agent. One of the players I helped represent was cornerback Jimmy Hitchcock. The Patriots informed us during the 1998 NFL Draft, after they used a first-round pick to select Tebucky Jones, a safety who would be moved to cornerback, that a trade with the Ravens had been worked out for Hitchcock. Since Hitchcock didn't want to be dealt to a team that drafted a cornerback in the first round, we advised him to refuse to sign his restricted free-agent tender. His refusal killed the trade. Hitchcock subsequently signed his tender for a trade to the Vikings, who hadn't used a high draft choice on a cornerback. Essentially, Bell has a de facto no-trade clause or veto power of a trade.

By CBA rule, franchise players who don't sign long term by the mid-July deadline are prohibited from signing a multi-year contract until after the 2018 regular season, which ends on Dec. 30. This prohibition on signing a long-term deal also applies to any team acquiring Bell in a trade.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-might-work-and-why-it-would-be-so-difficult/
 
before y'all trade Clowney for a future maybe or two, just remember who's doing the picking and the coaching of said picks.
 
badboy said:
Team has all leverage IMO as they control him; as season progresses even the high rank teams will have injuries & even those who don't will see a player that may take them deeper. We gambled on his health by not moving him before contract became guaranteed. Others should want that gamble also. If we don't get offer we want and if he is playing as he did vs Colts, we keep him. Money is not an object as of now.
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So he wont sign the franchise tender. Will stew and blast the organization for not supporting him or his future .. if the team knows without a doubt this guy will get hurt then they should trade him ASAP no? Protecting the investment and all that BS .. I mean they did keep him out of contact drills and workouts to start the season because they were 'concerned for him and his future' but not concerned enough to pay the guy.

See Earl Thomas? Thats why you need guarantees as a player in the NFL. Nobody on this board even remotely understands what that means. Some of you guys play with Grandpa Bobbys imaginary salary cap as if saving money for the McNairs should be at the top of the list. Like if this team is in some kind of financial difficulty. Just wierd.
 
Uncle Rico said:
So he wont sign the franchise tender. Will stew and blast the organization for not supporting him or his future .. if the team knows without a doubt this guy will get hurt then they should trade him ASAP no? Protecting the investment and all that BS .. I mean they did keep him out of contact drills and workouts to start the season because they were 'concerned for him and his future' but not concerned enough to pay the guy.

See Earl Thomas? Thats why you need guarantees as a player in the NFL. Nobody on this board even remotely understands what that means. Some of you guys play with Grandpa Bobbys imaginary salary cap as if saving money for the McNairs should be at the top of the list. Like if this team is in some kind of financial difficulty. Just wierd.
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It is a double edged sword in the NFL I am all for players wanting to hold out and get their guaranteed money, careers are short in the NFL you never know when yours can end. However that is the same argument for teams wanting to be cautious with guys, especially one who has had a knee surgery every year he has been a pro. For as good as JJ has been he has been on a huge contract for 2 years he was hurt and did nothing.
 
badboy said:
Just a little disagreement PapaL, IMO Clowney should remain here even taking somewhat less $ looking at whom he plays with. If the nuclear of this defense remains healthy including JJ, Clowney can be a huge part and still not have overwhelming stats. Texans should offer a Brinks truck to Mathieu and KJ is playing very well for a 30 YOA and if that continues I could see him getting an extension with another clever Chris Owen contract. A rotation of these two with Justin Reid would allow Andre Hal time to get himself into football shape. This would be easier for a safety than Quessenberry had as OL. McNair had made some early statement about wanting to get deal done before season started and while I disagreed with that it should show Clowney McNair wants him.
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I guess I'm just not sold on this defense being what's best for JDC. To me his play suffers when he's paired up with JJ and JJ's floating around. Granted they don't have a lot time working together so maybe that changes some as the year progresses.

I agree about Mathieu and KJ but instead of Hal I'm more interested in seeing how Reid grows. He's looked comfortable when he's on the field.

I don't know man...guess my optimism has taken a major hit this season. I want my favorite team and my favorite players to do well, neither has been very successful these last 2 seasons.
 
Uncle Rico said:
See Earl Thomas? Thats why you need guarantees as a player in the NFL. Nobody on this board even remotely understands what that means. Some of you guys play with Grandpa Bobbys imaginary salary cap as if saving money for the McNairs should be at the top of the list. Like if this team is in some kind of financial difficulty. Just wierd.
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Earl Thomas has made 55 million dollars, including $8,500,000 salary with $1,900,000 signing bonus this year alone. If he hasn't figured out how to invest for the long-term yet, he never will.

I'm not interested in saving McNair the billionaire some dough, though I have interest in how the team uses the available cap space.
As regards this thread, Clowney has played one whole season (out of 4.25) where he's started all 16 games. That's 44 of 68, 64.7%. The good news is his average is trending up.

A better question is - Why should any NFL team be a player's "insurance policy"? I've got no issues with them trying to negotiate it, but I'm damn tired of the "can't put food on my table bullshit" during negotiations.
 
It's interesting to see surface level thinking at play. For guys who make 50-100k whatever, they see these guys and the amount of money they make and they draw a conclusion often misguided.

NFL players will spend the majority of their lives in pain to play a game that entertains the masses. They sacrifice their bodies and then get discarded. Bootlickers will stand behind an idea of some future event and pretend to be acting in the best interest of the team.

Best interest of the team or any business is to have happy employees who will flourish. When you go to work and notice money flying around people getting raises and you know that you are a top performing employee; if not the best the company has; you just have to go to HR and schedule an evaluation right? Or you quit and find better work. These guys are treated as property and will only get love if they perform. The human element is missing. So when these guys use the only tool at their disposal to voice a grievance they become persona non grata and all the good they have done is forgotten.

Team isn't always right in holdouts, they just hide behind paperwork.
 
Clowney was wrong pick from beginning. For a 3-4 it’s not his natural position as weak side end. 4-3 end. There in lies his value which we all know he’s used more as a run stopper.

Mack was the pick. In hindsight with JJ’s injury’s Donald would have been much more effective 3-4 DE for a 3-4.

Gaines job is to procure value and finding right fit, with or without Crennel who I blame not Rick and not O’brian.
 
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beerlover said:
Clowney was wrong pick from beginning. For a 3-4 it’s not his natural position as weak side end. 4-3 end. There in lies his value which we all know he’s used more as a run stopper.

Mack was the pick. In hindsight with JJ’s injury’s Donald would have been much more effective 3-4 DE for a 3-4.

Gaines job is to procure value and finding right fit, with or without Crennel who I blame not Rick and not O’brian.
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Agreed,

But give me Matthews over Mack even though Mack is the better player.
 
leebigeztx said:
What makes you think the same wouldn't happen with Matthews. Btw, they had a answer at LT, but he was traded away.
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Matthews is solid as a rock at LT. Look at Atlanta's offense. He's a big part of that. Pairing DB/Matthews together as bookend OT's for a few yrs would've made a huge difference in the offense and when DB was traded Matthews could've slid right into the LT position.
 
leebigeztx said:
Are you kidding? I thought it was about the best player? Now you're talking about a generational guy vs a pro bowl guy.
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Matthews hasn't made a probowl.

Ridiculous idea to pass on Mack's talent for a position reach. There have been other OT opportunities since.
 
infantrycak said:
Matthews hasn't made a probowl.

Ridiculous idea to pass on Mack's talent for a position reach. There have been other OT opportunities since.
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I just look at the job he's done for Atlanta's offense this yr. How many pts are they averaging this yr?
 
steelbtexan said:
Matthews is solid as a rock at LT. Look at Atlanta's offense. He's a big part of that. Pairing DB/Matthews together as bookend OT's for a few yrs would've made a huge difference in the offense and when DB was traded Matthews could've slid right into the LT position.
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Joe Thomas is a 1st ballot, how good were the offenses he blocked for. Take Matt Ryan out , insert Savage. Do you think the offense is performing so well? Tell me about Drew Brees OTs. Tell me about any recent great qb and his tackles. If you're a franchise QB, more than likely, you negotiate the ol. Who is the left tackle for KC?
 
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