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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

From today's McClain chat.....Hmmmm..........

  • 6 hours ago
    Q: For the past two weeks I have noticed Clowney has been a little standoffish with media, and JJ Watt, almost changes the subject if asked about Clowney's play. The biggest thing I noticed was during the locker room celebration against Jets, Clowney was at his locker and did not join the players circle. What is going on with Clowney?
  • kspofford

  • 6 hours ago
    A: A lot of players don't like each other. It's no different than an office. But that doesn't mean they don't respect each other. Clowney played real well against the Jets and Watt played great.
    John McClain
    f5f94c1e-16ae-4828-b5df-2d02d25e386d.jpg
 
That sucks, but we just need the 2 of them to play the best they can. Too much is overblown about guys needing to be friends. I'd much rather they go all and play the best they can on the field with the end result of winning. I don't doubt that Clowney wants to win and that's all that matters. Frustration probably has a lot to do with it and I'm sure everyone was frustrated early in the season. Winning cures all though.
 
PapaL said:
Meh...JJ annoys me but I'm glad he's on our team.
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What's annoying is having a guy who thought he'd take this league over and then miss his entire rookie year and in his second year he has like what...1 sack in 10 games? And then he misses practices and more games because he's banged up? Too painful? Yeah, if I'm Watt I'd get annoyed with a guy like that. Watt is one of the hardest working guys in the league, one of the toughest guys. Of course he's sick of the Clown. He's right there, he knows what's going on, he sees what Clowney does and doesn't do, the effort he shows or doesn't show. We've seen glimpses of it on Hard Knocks when the coaching staff and the players got annoyed with Clowney and his inability to stay healthy and get his ass on the field. They get tired of him, they get tired of seeing him stand around and do nothing, do rehab, whatever, while they're busting their asses out there.
 
Dre_80 said:
What's annoying is having a guy who thought he'd take this league over and then miss his entire rookie year and in his second year he has like what...1 sack in 10 games? And then he misses practices and more games because he's banged up? Too painful? Yeah, if I'm Watt I'd get annoyed with a guy like that. Watt is one of the hardest working guys in the league, one of the toughest guys. Of course he's sick of the Clown. He's right there, he knows what's going on, he sees what Clowney does and doesn't do, the effort he shows or doesn't show. We've seen glimpses of it on Hard Knocks when the coaching staff and the players got annoyed with Clowney and his inability to stay healthy and get his ass on the field. They get tired of him, they get tired of seeing him stand around and do nothing, do rehab, whatever, while they're busting their asses out there.
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You think Clowney injured himself? **** happens. Play long enough and you too will get injured. Not a single person in the Texans organization has questioned Clowney's heart, desire, or willingness to learn an entirely new position. Very much the opposite. He had every reason to show up fat and out of shape but he didn't. You mistake injuries for desire. You sir are reading way more into this than anyone has ever even speculated. But hey go ahead and jump on the Clowney Bust train. It's being driven by the same fools that were on the Pizza Delivery Boy train a few years ago. In the mean time, I'll keep tuning in and watching him make strides.
 
Dre_80 said:
What's annoying is having a guy who thought he'd take this league over and then miss his entire rookie year and in his second year he has like what...1 sack in 10 games? And then he misses practices and more games because he's banged up? Too painful? Yeah, if I'm Watt I'd get annoyed with a guy like that. Watt is one of the hardest working guys in the league, one of the toughest guys. Of course he's sick of the Clown. He's right there, he knows what's going on, he sees what Clowney does and doesn't do, the effort he shows or doesn't show. We've seen glimpses of it on Hard Knocks when the coaching staff and the players got annoyed with Clowney and his inability to stay healthy and get his ass on the field. They get tired of him, they get tired of seeing him stand around and do nothing, do rehab, whatever, while they're busting their asses out there.
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Hmmm... everything I've read was JJ and others commending Clowney for his hard work through rehab of a devastating injury in order to get back on the field. Can you show me anything different? Any statement by anyone that he was doing less than he could? Or are you just looking thru **** colored glasses to get the view you prefer?
 
Come on now ya'll. Don't be hatin'. In the eyes of some of us Clowney is making strides. In others eyes he's a goldbricking bum collecting a paycheck. That's how things are when people are disappointed. It's perfectly natural.

Think of it this way. I'm sure the Texans players and coaches, the entire locker room and all the ball boys, laundry guys, equipment people, etc are all just like the rest of us. A little more in the know maybe. More understanding of what is and isn't happening but still they're probably a cross section of personalities and you got guys in there who are empathizing with Clown and who have been there but you also have guys with higher pain thresholds who think deep down that he should be out there with them and play through it. There are probably even a few who think he's a lazy SOB just getting paid. They're all different people and nobody said they're all going to like each other. If you don't like somebody you're more inclined to think the worst. Some of them are gym rats and workout warriors and some don't do as much. The guys who train non-stop probably think the others aren't doing enough. I've been told (heresay cometh) that Mike Rozier was a heavy chain smoker when he wasn't playing and was always out of breath. I've heard that Earl didn't do anything in particular to stay in shape. He didn't have to. Genetics basically but how long could his career have been if he'd trained more.

Clowney is a player who has injury issues. What's done is done. All they can do is make the best of it.
 
PapaL said:
I was reading this article about JJ vs the Jets last week and one thing stood out on his 2 sacks...the guy that was lined up next to him.
Article:
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/11/24/9790090/jj-watt-houston-texans-trill-nfl-playoff-picture

1st Sack:
https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4/jq8b.mp4
2nd Sack:
https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4/x68t.mp4

Seems like it's a race to the QB when they line up next to each other...
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I guess I don't know football because I see a guy covering his gap well instead of leaving a wide open escape lane. Even at that, the QB might have been successful if he had stepped up rather than stayed back.
 
PapaL said:
You think Clowney injured himself? **** happens. Play long enough and you too will get injured. Not a single person in the Texans organization has questioned Clowney's heart, desire, or willingness to learn an entirely new position. Very much the opposite. He had every reason to show up fat and out of shape but he didn't. You mistake injuries for desire. You sir are reading way more into this than anyone has ever even speculated. But hey go ahead and jump on the Clowney Bust train. It's being driven by the same fools that were on the Pizza Delivery Boy train a few years ago. In the mean time, I'll keep tuning in and watching him make strides.
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Last time I checked our sack artist played in 8 games this year, piling up an amazing 1.5 sacks. Mercilus had like 3 times as many sacks in ONE game. So there's that. Secondly missing games bc of injury is different from missing games because you can't take the pain. One is being injured, the other is him being soft. And when you hear Watt avoiding Clowney questions and instead giving credit to Mercilus instead when nobody even brings that guy up that speaks volumes about what the guys in the locker room think of Clown. He's soft, he's missing too many games/practices, he's not putting in the same work, he's not busing his ass the way he should. And he's not delivering on the field either.

Is Clowney a bust? I think he could be a decent starter if he manages to stay healthy. Was he worth the #1 overall pick? Is he that once in a lifetime guy he thought he was going to be? The guy most people thought he'd be? Hell no.
 
Marshall said:
I guess I don't know football because I see a guy covering his gap well instead of leaving a wide open escape lane. Even at that, the QB might have been successful if he had stepped up rather than stayed back.
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That's the sad thing. Those 2 plays are probably his best plays and he gets handled by a career backup (Winters) at Guard 1 on 1 (finished off by some bum center who saw the first action of his career in that game) and gets pushed aside by the other Guard on the next play.
 
Dre_80 said:
That's the sad thing. Those 2 plays are probably his best plays and he gets handled by a career backup (Winters) at Guard 1 on 1 (finished off by some bum center who saw the first action of his career in that game) and gets pushed aside by the other Guard on the next play.
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I always find it hard to evaluate a player without knowing the defensive assignment. If your responsibility is to contain the QB while another player is assigned to get to the QB/RB, then you can be doing your job well and not look like it on tape. Those are the unsung heros on the team.

If Clowney becomes one of these rather than the one with the gaudy stats, then all is well. But it is a thankless job and I'll leave it up to the coaches to decide whether he's doing what he is assigned to do. But I liked the move from SAM to JACK leaving Mercilus as a starter.
 
Dre_80 said:
Last time I checked our sack artist played in 8 games this year, piling up an amazing 1.5 sacks. Mercilus had like 3 times as many sacks in ONE game. So there's that. Secondly missing games bc of injury is different from missing games because you can't take the pain. One is being injured, the other is him being soft. And when you hear Watt avoiding Clowney questions and instead giving credit to Mercilus instead when nobody even brings that guy up that speaks volumes about what the guys in the locker room think of Clown. He's soft, he's missing too many games/practices, he's not putting in the same work, he's not busing his ass the way he should. And he's not delivering on the field either.

Is Clowney a bust? I think he could be a decent starter if he manages to stay healthy. Was he worth the #1 overall pick? Is he that once in a lifetime guy he thought he was going to be? The guy most people thought he'd be? Hell no.
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Damn Dre, you still on that ! You got a real hard-on for JD don't you ?
 
Dre_80 said:
Last time I checked our sack artist played in 8 games this year, piling up an amazing 1.5 sacks. Mercilus had like 3 times as many sacks in ONE game. So there's that. Secondly missing games bc of injury is different from missing games because you can't take the pain. One is being injured, the other is him being soft. And when you hear Watt avoiding Clowney questions and instead giving credit to Mercilus instead when nobody even brings that guy up that speaks volumes about what the guys in the locker room think of Clown. He's soft, he's missing too many games/practices, he's not putting in the same work, he's not busing his ass the way he should. And he's not delivering on the field either.

Is Clowney a bust? I think he could be a decent starter if he manages to stay healthy. Was he worth the #1 overall pick? Is he that once in a lifetime guy he thought he was going to be? The guy most people thought he'd be? Hell no.
Click to expand...

Yup 8 games and how many snaps? Limited right? How many sacks did Watt have in his first 8 games his rookie year? 1. Anyone with half a brain knows it takes to adjust to the NFL. Throw in missing your rookie year with a serious injury and you'd be a lunatic to be complaining about a guy that is out there learning and trying. How many years has Cushing gotten a pass for his injuries and PED suspension? Yet this kid is suppose to set the league on fire on one knee?

As for not busting his ass; I'll defer to his teammates and coaches. They've all had nothing but glowing endorsements about his work ethic. Again, you're seeing what you want to see while the rest of us are seeing weekly improvements. If he plays hurt, he sucks. If he doesn't play hurt, he sucks. We get it, he sucks to you and you cannot give an unbiased view.
 
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Clowney left the game briefly with a "minor leg injury." He was seen limping into the locker room after the game, although he supposedly downplayed his injury saying "I'm good." Any lower limb injury on either side that leaves him limping is anything but good for Clowney.
 
That TE trying to cover Clowney was fumbling and stumbling Clown just kinda walked right past him on his way to the QB
 
Norg said:
That TE trying to cover Clowney was fumbling and stumbling Clown just kinda walked right past him on his way to the QB
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FYI DBs/LBs cover receivers (you know like TEs), but TEs don't cover Dlinemen, rather they block defensive linemen.
 
Right now is about the time Jj Watt started taking over games his rookie season.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clowney left the game briefly with a "minor leg injury." He was seen limping into the locker room after the game, although he supposedly downplayed his injury saying "I'm good." Any lower limb injury on either side that leaves him limping is anything but good for Clowney.
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I don't remember everything exactly but there was a play late in the game where a tackle was made on the sideline, I think it was McCoy, and as he was going down he fell into Clowney's knee/shin area at an odd angle. It didn't look incredibly dangerous so I didn't think much of it at the time but then saw it was #90 and was very surprised that he didn't immediately go down.
 
On 790 this morning, Lance Z. was pointing out some interesting insight were JJ does what he wants on defense isolating his team mates where they are then confused where to line up and what assignment to maintain. Wonder if there's some animosity among the members of the defensive team. If this is true, shame on JJ. I think it's fine if he wants to free lance, but he should do this with in his assigned position and within the defensive play call.
 
mridge01 said:
On 790 this morning, Lance Z. was pointing out some interesting insight were JJ does what he wants on defense isolating his team mates where they are then confused where to line up and what assignment to maintain. Wonder if there's some animosity among the members of the defensive team. If this is true, shame on JJ. I think it's fine if he wants to free lance, but he should do this with in his assigned position and within the defensive play call.
Click to expand...
Even someone like JJ wouldn't do that on his own accord (or for very long), he does it with the blessing of RAC. Now, if guys aren't happy that RAC lets him do that, they need to address it with RAC.
 
mridge01 said:
On 790 this morning, Lance Z. was pointing out some interesting insight were JJ does what he wants on defense isolating his team mates where they are then confused where to line up and what assignment to maintain. Wonder if there's some animosity among the members of the defensive team. If this is true, shame on JJ. I think it's fine if he wants to free lance, but he should do this with in his assigned position and within the defensive play call.
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I have mentioned something about this before, along the lines of the pros and cons of JJ having autonomy to go where he wants on any given snap. I believe I have actually seen plays where JJ's made an adjustment on his own out of the defensive huddle from one end to another and in the meantime seen a teammate (Clowney, Crick, Covington, etc) just kind of hands on hips idly waiting to see where JJ ends up and seemingly completely out of any current flow of the game.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I have mentioned something about this before, along the lines of the pros and cons of JJ having autonomy to go where he wants on any given snap. I believe I have actually seen plays where JJ's made an adjustment on his own out of the defensive huddle from one end to another and in the meantime seen a teammate (Clowney, Crick, Covington, etc) just kind of hands on hips idly waiting to see where JJ ends up and seemingly completely out of any current flow of the game.
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That's exactly the scenario LZ described. It was apparently a big issue in the Miami game and it was throwing everyone off their assignments, especially in the run game.
 
Reggie White was the same way. The problem is that J.J. does not have the caliber of players around him that Reggie had in Green Bay.
 
Seth Payne, former Texans NT and now 610 radio commentator, has said the same thing in so many words this season.
 
why would not the other players keep their assignments? At most it would disrupt (not exactly word I am looking for) the player Watt lines up next to. If D knew where he was launching from, he would not be as effective. Seemingly it would reduce his stats and not increase productivity of others. For example if Watt lined up next to Clowney, JD still tries to beat his opponent who must decide to block him or Watt.
 
Last night was clearly Clowney's best game as a Texan, but it's not so meaningful when we lose. But the big guy is making progress, so hopefully he plays even better this coming weekend in Indy.
 
Clowney had his best game, but I said it at the time and I'll say it again - we should have drafted Blake Bortles.
 
Porky said:
Clowney had his best game, but I said it at the time and I'll say it again - we should have drafted Blake Bortles.
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I would have gone for Mack and Carr.

Or Garapolo if the fans didn't want another Carr yet.
 
He is starting to play like a 1st round pick.

Too bad our QB, OL, and TE's are not NFL quality.
 
santo said:
I would have gone for Mack and Carr.

Or Garapolo if the fans didn't want another Carr yet.
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That would have been fine as well. I hope Clowney continues his progress but we needed a QB not another DE/LB hybrid. Ricky needs to go and they must address it this offseason finally.
 
disaacks3 said:
...or at least Khalil Mack.
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He had 5 sacks vs the Broncos Sunday, right ? That was probably a fluke just as it was a fluke when Connor Barwin had 4
or 5 sacks in one game vs the Jags when Blaine Gabbert was still there. Connor is a descent pass-rusher, but not elite.
 
Mack had more sacks in one game than what Clowney has had all season long.

Bortles and Mack were complete no brainers over Clowney, and they're embarrassing every alleged draft guru and Texan fan that listened to the most overrated hype behind a player in NFL draft history.

To think that we would have two playoff seasons in a row with Bortles already, and a more dominant defense with Mack running around with Watt is par the course for this loser franchise under Rick Smith.
 
Texecutioner said:
Mack had more sacks in one game than what Clowney has had all season long.

Bortles and Mack were complete no brainers over Clowney, and they're embarrassing every alleged draft guru and Texan fan that listened to the most overrated hype behind a player in NFL draft history.

To think that we would have two playoff seasons in a row with Bortles already, and a more dominant defense with Mack running around with Watt is par the course for this loser franchise under Rick Smith.
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LOL...revisionist History. NO ONE had Bortles in the top 5 unless the Texans' picked him. Mack...was a top 5 pick.
 
Texecutioner said:
Mack had more sacks in one game than what Clowney has had all season long.

Bortles and Mack were complete no brainers over Clowney, and they're embarrassing every alleged draft guru and Texan fan that listened to the most overrated hype behind a player in NFL draft history.

To think that we would have two playoff seasons in a row with Bortles already, and a more dominant defense with Mack running around with Watt is par the course for this loser franchise under Rick Smith.
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:rolleyes:
 
Mr.Scarface said:
LOL...revisionist History. NO ONE had Bortles in the top 5 unless the Texans' picked him. Mack...was a top 5 pick.
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In case you haven't noticed, we've got a library of threads that will easily prove this statement false. There were plenty of people that had Bortles in the top 5. WE WANTED HIM FOR THE #1 PICK. Texian and I argued for Bortles non stop for months. You clearly were one of those guys that didn't watch and just listened to the Jokes like the Kipers of the world and bought into that crap about how he wasn't worth a #1 pick. Dumbest crap I've ever heard before a draft, how someone can anoint someone as not worth a #1 pick especially when they're saying a lazy DE who only registers 4 sacks is. They said the same garbage about Mack not being worth a #1 pick. But hey, only the sheep actually listened to that and swallowed that as if it were true.


We needed a QB more than any other position, and we passed on Bortles who is now ripping a lot of teams apart with a bunch of young players in only his 2nd season. Now we've got Luck, Bortles, and the Titans young QB while we've still got nothing.
 
Texecutioner said:
We needed a QB more than any other position, and we passed on Bortles who is now ripping a lot of teams apart with a bunch of young players in only his 2nd season. Now we've got Luck, Bortles, and the Titans young QB while we've still got nothing.
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Neither Bortles, or the Titans young QB has beaten us yet.
 
Texecutioner said:
In case you haven't noticed, we've got a library of threads that will easily prove this statement false. There were plenty of people that had Bortles in the top 5. WE WANTED HIM FOR THE #1 PICK. Texian and I argued for Bortles non stop for months. You clearly were one of those guys that didn't watch and just listened to the Jokes like the Kipers of the world and bought into that crap about how he wasn't worth a #1 pick. Dumbest crap I've ever heard before a draft, how someone can anoint someone as not worth a #1 pick especially when they're saying a lazy DE who only registers 4 sacks is. They said the same garbage about Mack not being worth a #1 pick. But hey, only the sheep actually listened to that and swallowed that as if it were true.


We needed a QB more than any other position, and we passed on Bortles who is now ripping a lot of teams apart with a bunch of young players in only his 2nd season. Now we've got Luck, Bortles, and the Titans young QB while we've still got nothing.
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I think he meant those paid for their opinion, not just a couple message board junkies
 
Bortles "Great" season he's having:
PCT: 57.5 TDS: 30 INT: 13 YDS: 3,524 RTG: 88.4

Hoyer's destroyer season:
PCT: 60.5 TDS: 18 INT: 6 YDS: 2,357 RTG: 93.0
 
PapaL said:
Bortles "Great" season he's having:
PCT: 57.5 TDS: 30 INT: 13 YDS: 3,524 RTG: 88.4

Hoyer's destroyer season:
PCT: 60.5 TDS: 18 INT: 6 YDS: 2,357 RTG: 93.0
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The problem for Hoyer and his stats, he padded those bad boys after we were completely out of games with prevent defense and even 2nd stringers some games. You cannot look at stats in a vacuum when it comes to determining play from the qb.
 
amazing80 said:
The problem for Hoyer and his stats, he padded those bad boys after we were completely out of games with prevent defense and even 2nd stringers some games. You cannot look at stats in a vacuum when it comes to determining play from the qb.
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Considering the Jags have a worse record than us, that probably applyies just as much if not more to them.
 
JB said:
I think he meant those paid for their opinion, not just a couple message board junkies
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NFL.com had Bortles at no. 5 to Oakland.

CBS Sports had him at no. 1 to Houston.

Bleacher Report had him at no. 1 to Houston.

USA Today had him at no. 4 to Cleveland.

I'm fairly certain that all of these were financially compensated for their educated opinions. :shades:

PapaL said:
Bortles "Great" season he's having:
PCT: 57.5 TDS: 30 INT: 13 YDS: 3,524 RTG: 88.4

Hoyer's destroyer season:
PCT: 60.5 TDS: 18 INT: 6 YDS: 2,357 RTG: 93.0
Click to expand...

But, can you imagine the numbers for Bortles this season if he had a QB guru?! :D
 
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