PapaL
Loose Screw
But, can you imagine the numbers for Bortles this season if he had a QB guru?!
And if he wasn't concussed like Hoyer hahaha
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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
And if he wasn't concussed like Hoyer hahaha
Texian
Hall of Fame
Clearly, there is absolutely no doubt, the Texans turned in the wrong piece of paper.
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stingray
Hall of Fame
I wanted Mack and Bridgewater. Im not going to totally call the Clowney pick a waste because he looks like he might be turning into the beast he was projected to be.
Now, on the the 2nd round pick, I think they screwed the pooch on that one. With needing a qb, they passed up Derrick carr and didnt trade up to pick bridgewater. With carr looking like he might be a future star. I think the verdict is still out on teddy though.
Now, on the the 2nd round pick, I think they screwed the pooch on that one. With needing a qb, they passed up Derrick carr and didnt trade up to pick bridgewater. With carr looking like he might be a future star. I think the verdict is still out on teddy though.
Seeing how the Jags have lost more games than they won, couldn't the same be said for Bortles?
I know what he looked like last time he played us. We'll see if anything's changed in a couple of weeks.
NFL.com had Bortles at no. 5 to Oakland.
CBS Sports had him at no. 1 to Houston.
Bleacher Report had him at no. 1 to Houston.
USA Today had him at no. 4 to Cleveland.
I'm fairly certain that all of these were financially compensated for their educated opinions.
That's their opinion of what teams would do in the draft. I doubt anyone had Bortles as the fifth best player in that draft.
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That was neither the question nor the point that I was responding to with my post. Try to follow along now.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Bortles has done plenty of stat padding himself.
In Wins...
Hoyer - 66.7%, 7 TD, 2 INT
Bortles - 53.9%, 10 TD, 3 INT
In Losses...
Hoyer - 56.9%, 11 TD, 4 INT
Bortles - 59.3%, 20 TD, 10 INT
Games with 40+ pass attempts...
Hoyer - 2
Bortles - 6
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I had Bridgewater wishlisted as my number 1, Mack would of been my second choice.
I think Clowney is gonna be a good one still (with the ever present health permitting clause)
I think Clowney is gonna be a good one still (with the ever present health permitting clause)
Texian
Hall of Fame
The comparison that's more pertinent today that reflects directly on O'Brien's eye and judgement is Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Brian Hoyer. Numbers suggest that O'Brien got it wrong once again. A pattern of behavior that is becoming all to common.
Bridgewater is turning out to be exactly what some of us thought he would be in the NFL, a noodle arm game manager. He's not going to make the mistakes to lose the game (Cardinals game excluded) but he's not going to make the plays needed to win the game either (Cardinals game included).
PapaL
Loose Screw
Great post. I'm sure the Bortles bandits will ignore it and/or talk about something else.
Spend the #1 overall on a guy worse than our current dumpster fire QB? Come on now...
Texian
Hall of Fame
Understand that most of the folks at the draft party were only familiar with the Clowney hit on on the Michigan RB.
Did you do an exit poll or something?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
PapaL
Loose Screw
Bortles does have wins over Miami, Buffalo and Indy, teams the Texans are 0-3 against.
And losses to the Jets, Titans, Bucs. Speaking of 0-3, that's his record vs Texans (Keenum, Fitzpatrick, Hoyer).
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Agree wholeheartedly.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I actually like Bortles. Would much rather have him than Hoyer.
However, the point of my post was to point out the hypocrisy of claiming stats aren't a vacuum while at the same time claiming Hoyer is a stat-padder and insinuating that Bortles (or any other QB) isn't doing the exact same thing.
Bringing this thread back to Clowney, I'm really hoping that Indy sees those two sacks on Brady as an indication that Clowney is starting to be a force on our defense (regardless if he is nor not, just need Indy to consider it).
Any player not named J.J. Watt on the defense that can command an occasional double-team is ultimately going to help Watt. Indy just needs to think that Clowney has started figuring it out and give him some attention. I really want to see this defense swallow whole Indy's offense on their home field after 13 seasons of losing there. Not just win the game, but freakin' embarrass the Colts like the Jaguars did last weekend.
Bring home that Superb Owl trophy!
Any player not named J.J. Watt on the defense that can command an occasional double-team is ultimately going to help Watt. Indy just needs to think that Clowney has started figuring it out and give him some attention. I really want to see this defense swallow whole Indy's offense on their home field after 13 seasons of losing there. Not just win the game, but freakin' embarrass the Colts like the Jaguars did last weekend.
Bring home that Superb Owl trophy!
PapaL
Loose Screw
Bringing this thread back to Clowney, I'm really hoping that Indy sees those two sacks on Brady as an indication that Clowney is starting to be a force on our defense (regardless if he is nor not, just need Indy to consider it).
Any player not named J.J. Watt on the defense that can command an occasional double-team is ultimately going to help Watt. Indy just needs to think that Clowney has started figuring it out and give him some attention. I really want to see this defense swallow whole Indy's offense on their home field after 13 seasons of losing there. Not just win the game, but freakin' embarrass the Colts like the Jaguars did last weekend.
Bring home that Superb Owl trophy!
Game wise he's finally towards the end of his rookie season. The lights should be turning on and he can finally just play. I hope he finishes the season healthy AND with strong performances. Lord knows we're going to need it.
He's got to have the strongest hands in the NFL. I remember during the Buffalo game, the announcers were talking about having to wrap up LeSean McCoy, that you couldn't just arm tackle him... Then Jadaveon slips around a full back & grabs McCoy with one hand bringing him down.
I think one of his sacks on Brady was also a one handed grab that he couldn't get away from.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Keep in mind that these are the same people that overwhelmingly booed when we selected Watt.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Last game when Gronk tried to block Clowney one on one. Clowney shoved he aside. That impressed me since Gronk is a giant isn't a Jimmy Graham at blocking.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Through Success and Praise, Clowney Maintaining Focus
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/12/17/through-success-and-praise-clowney-maintaining-focus/
Hopefully the lights continue to turn on for Clowney...we need him being disruptive and causing havoc.
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/12/17/through-success-and-praise-clowney-maintaining-focus/
Hopefully the lights continue to turn on for Clowney...we need him being disruptive and causing havoc.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
After looking at his past 4 games....I think Clowney is wanting teams to double him so he can shove their double teams up their ass.Bringing this thread back to Clowney, I'm really hoping that Indy sees those two sacks on Brady as an indication that Clowney is starting to be a force on our defense (regardless if he is nor not, just need Indy to consider it).
Any player not named J.J. Watt on the defense that can command an occasional double-team is ultimately going to help Watt. Indy just needs to think that Clowney has started figuring it out and give him some attention. I really want to see this defense swallow whole Indy's offense on their home field after 13 seasons of losing there. Not just win the game, but freakin' embarrass the Colts like the Jaguars did last weekend.
Bring home that Superb Owl trophy!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Also take into consideration Bortles has fumbled the ball 9 times this season..losing 4 of them & those 30 TD's really don't look as impressive.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Not trying to take away from Clowney, but just because Gronk was able to run a few virtually unobstructed straight-line routes coming back from his incompletely rehabbed LCL and bone bruise, does not mean he had much ability to handle the stress on his knees that is required to adequately resist a large oncoming Dlineman.
Jadeveon Clowney Voted Ed Block Courage Award Winner
JD overcame an extremely significant injury early in his career. After his surgery from (Team Medical Director & Head Team Orthopedist) Dr. Walter Lowe, he was able to battle back to become a starter and productive player for the Texans
,” said Director of Sports Medicine/Head Athletic Trainer Geoff Kaplan. “Throughout his extensive and strenuous rehabilitation process, Jadeveon never doubted he had the ability to come back strong.”http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/12/18/jadeveon-clowney-voted-ed-block-courage-award-winner/
JD overcame an extremely significant injury early in his career. After his surgery from (Team Medical Director & Head Team Orthopedist) Dr. Walter Lowe, he was able to battle back to become a starter and productive player for the Texans
,” said Director of Sports Medicine/Head Athletic Trainer Geoff Kaplan. “Throughout his extensive and strenuous rehabilitation process, Jadeveon never doubted he had the ability to come back strong.”http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/12/18/jadeveon-clowney-voted-ed-block-courage-award-winner/
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So now 30 TDs is not impressive? WTF is impressive anymore? Sorry to take this off-topic again but man, some of you people seem to just argue for the sake of arguing.
You do realize that Bortles is in just his 2nd year, right? You do realize that 30 TD was done just once by Peyton Manning in his 1st 6 years and not until his 3rd year, right? Tom Brady didn't top 30 until year 8, Drew Brees year 8.
WTF?
Yes, I understand that passing has really exploded here the last 5 or 6 years or so as opposed to when Manning and Brady started, but Brady has still just done it 6 times in his career. 30 TDs is still pretty good. Especially when your TD/INT ratio is over 2/1 and you're only in your 2nd damn season.
PapaL
Loose Screw
You realize that was a change in the league from a defensive and run oriented league to pass happy sissy ass rules. So no 30 TDs and 4000 yards isn't impressive.
I still think it's impressive. But, I don't think it means much in Bortles case. I don't think he'll ever get to elite.
What do you think about Goff, Lynch, or Wentz? Same as Bortles? Better? Not as good?
The chatter I'm hearing about these guys suggests Bortles would have been a 2ND round pick if he was in the same class.
Had we drafted Bortles, all three would be off our board. They may be off our board now anyway because of where we pick, bit that's a different problem.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
And some of you guys need to step your analysis game up...
yeah his ints are down from flat out atrocious to respectable this year, but his TD to INT ratio doesn't take into account his fumbles....which is all my post was meant to convey about his play.
That post was also meant to go in conjunction with wolverine's post about how many of those TDs come in garbage time....you know, 1 of the same things you guys knock Hoyer for doing...When you take all that into account, no his 30 TD's arent as impressive b/c his ass still doesn't take care of the ball....
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
"Yes, I understand that passing has really exploded here the last 5 or 6 years or so as opposed to when Manning and Brady started, but Brady has still just done it 6 times in his career. 30 TDs is still pretty good. Especially when your TD/INT ratio is over 2/1 and you're only in your 2nd damn season."
Considering I wrote that in the same message you quoted, yeah I think I do realize. And I guess Russell Wilson must really suck because he's never hit 4,000 or 30. Really hard to please some of you people.
So you don't think Bortles will ever be elite? Way to go out on a limb there TK. FWIW, I don't think he'll be elite either, but that doesn't mean he can't be a Schaub type good or a little better.
And 30 TD is impressive unless Bortles does it? That doesn't even make sense.
Bortles is light years better than last season, and he's even improving as this season rolls along. The 1st half of the season (1st 8 games) 56.3% completions, 83.2 QBR, 17 TD, 10 INT. In the 2nd half of the season (5 games), 59.5% completions, 97.1 QBR, 13 TD, 3 INT.
Now, I'll give you that I really haven't watched him play this year, other than the Texans game where he didn't look good, but all of the statistical indicators say he's getting better. That and the fact that the Jags are putting some pieces in place around him, their team is only going to get better, especially if Bortles keeps progressing like he is.
And talking about the Texans getting Bortles really doesn't apply. No way they take him where they were at 1:1, so he was never really an option to be a Texan. But that doesn't mean you pass on Bridgewater, Carr or even Garropolo with your next pick.
Do you like any of those guys better than Goff, Wentz, Cook, etc? You're saying that if we took one of those guys then, that we wouldn't have a shot at Goff, Lynch and the others now? Hell man, by that logic, if we draft any of those guys this spring, then whoever is at the top of the class the next 2 years is off the board. I don't understand the thinking there. I'm not passing on a QB this year because I think there might be better options in the 2018 draft.
And it doesn't matter anyway. We all know we're getting Hackenberg.
Like I said, I don't really watch a lot of Jacksonville football so I'll give you that. If Bortles has garbage time stats so be it. If Bortles has GT stats and Hoyer has GT stats, then it cancels each other out, right? And garbage time by both included;
Points
Jags - 9th
Texans - 25th
Points per play
Jags - 10th
Texans -30th
Red Zone Attempts
Jags - 6th
Texans - 26th
Yards per play
Jags - 17th
Texans - 32th
3 and out Drives
Jags - 26th
Texans - 30th
Punts per Game
Jags - 13th
Texans - 1st (meaning no one punts more than the Texans)
Offensive Efficiency
Jags - 14th
Texans - 22nd
Their production in the run game may be a little better than ours (they don't run as much), so what gives? Why is Jacksonville's offense so much more efficient than ours?
Look, I'm not saying Bortles is going to be all that, if anything. I don't even like the guy. But you can't say there isn't some improvement in his game IN ONLY HIS 2ND YEAR. He doesn't need to be Tom Brady. If he's just Mark Brunell, they will compete.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Well damn with all those stats they must be really good.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Better than us (offensively). Fortunate we have a defense that has won a few games.
I'd rather not spend a first on a Schaub. 2nd, third... no problem. & it may just be me, but I have to feel the guy has Franchise potential to spend a first on him.
& that's not what I said. I'm impressed. But it's more like Matt Stafford or Jon Kitna throwing for 5000 yards in a losing season.
Depends. If I have Savage graded like those three, then yeah I do. & if we're saying these guys can be like Schaub... I'm targeting them one in the third since there were so many of them.
I have no problem with passing on those guys. It's completely plausible that OB liked Savage better.
What's so frustrating is how he's kept him from playing.
No. I'm saying I like Cook better than any of those guys. I like Cook better than Bortles, easy. I put Cook above Bortles & Carr but below Winston & Mariota.
I don't have a problem passing on Carr, Bortles, Garoppolo, etc... because I don't think any of them are franchise guys.
I think Cook is. Franchise guy. Others here believe Goff is a franchise guy. I'm not going to pass on them for what might be in 2018.
I don't think it is. They're scoring points that don't matter since they aren't winning.
If he had those stats & a winning record, then I'd be more impressed with them.
Let's see what he looks like against Jj Watt. If they put us in a hole, we have to chase them, they're punking our defense.. then I'll be worried about them contending. If he's stymied most of the game, I won't.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If a Houston Texans QB did that, you'd be calling him a HOFer in the making.
Your attempts to belittle his accomplishments this year are very telling in the sense that you want him to do very poorly so that this support for the Clowney pick doesn't look so foolish. It is just looking more foolish the way that some of you keep trying to shove piles of crap on Bortles just because we embarrassed ourselves by picking one of the worst busts in NFL history and passed on a QB that is having a great 2nd season.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You're wasting your time. We're in a thread where people actually still have the audacity and the arrogance to make attempts at excusing the foolish pick that was Clowney. That right there ought to tell you all you need to know. They'll bash the HC, but won't even dream of bashing the worst draft pick we've ever made for some silly reason.
Some of these same folks swore that Keenum was going to be great based on absolutely nothing, and would swear up and down that Schaub was a great QB based on being good for like two years, so you can see how strong the bias is even for a pathetic organization like the Texans. The fact is, they don't mind looking foolish as long as they are arguing for a Texans player they are mentally invested in. When it is a player on another team or a rival especially all objectivity goes out the window.
Your attempts to belittle clowney's accomplishments this year are telling in the sense that you want him to do very poorly so that your disdain for his pick doesn't look so foolish. It is just looking more foolish that you keep trying to shove piles of crap on Clowney just because you embarrassed yourself by acting like a whiny baby because we didn't pick the guy you wanted and instead drafted the consensus best player In the draft.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
After you cried racism at anyone who thought that CLowney shouldn't be a a high draft pick before the draft, and still being here trying to act like you have some sort of idea as to what a #1 draft pick is supposed to perform like is hilarious. I'm more shocked that you have the audacity to show your face in this thread after ranting off so much stuff that has blown up in your face from Clowney and Mallet this season. I'd be ticked at those guys if I were you for letting you down so badly.
And you're still calling him the consensus best player in the draft? Lol!
Lol you're so full of ****. Cried racism??? It's hilarious that you lose so many arguments so badly that the only real chance you have to look halfway credible is to misquote and fabricate bullshit to try and make the other person look bad.
PapaL
Loose Screw
So the fact that I acknowledge improvement from the guy that's actually on our team, playing on one knee and is learning a new position, makes me foolish and makes him a bust?
We clearly have different definitions of "great".
Since you're such a Bortles cheerleader, you do know they have their own board and fans? Maybe you should go look them up.
In the mean time, I'll continue supporting Texans and not cry about who we could have had.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Anyone who knows football knows that sacks come in bunches...but Clowney still did make a few plays yesterday...batted a pass down on that series where the Indy WR fumbled....was stout against the run all game....couple of qb hits. I think the biggest thing that came out of yesterday's game for him is that for the 1st time I saw he drew a few doubles......1 of which is what gave Mercilus the 1 on 1 that led to that monster hit he wound up putting on Hasselbeck....It appears the lightbulb is coming on for him like it did for Watt at the end of his rookie season..I know ND Kalu on 610 was praising his play this morning.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
yeah he Crashes the Run game pretty good
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
And yet, we have better record.