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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
He'd have to bulk up about 20lbs for that. 4-3 is his best suit. People wanna see Clowney and Mercilus on the field together .....4-3. Put Watt and Covington inside. BA BOOM
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I don't think that's right. Crick handles it at 6'4" and 279 (note these are quick "BS google numbers" and Clowney is 6'6" and 267. More like 12 pounds and if his frame couldn't handle another 12 pounds then I'd be genuinely surprised.

267, 270, 279, 280, etc. I think the main thing is some people just don't want to see him as a 3-4 DE (and that's fine) but I think the idea that there's some physical reason why he couldn't do it is complete manure. By the same token you can do just as well with a 4-3 as you said in the second part of your post.
 
Texian said:
Does the fact that Hoyer sat on the bench for 4 years, was 27 years old when he made his first start, in the league for 9 years and 30 years old when he started his 21st game vs Bortles who sat on the bench for 1 game before making his first start, was 22 years old when he made his first start, in the league two years and 23 when he made his 21st start account for anything? Does the fact that thru 8 games in 2015, Bortles has thrown 100% more TDs in 2015 than he did thru 8 games in 2014, and 50% less INTs in 2015 than he threw in 2014 mean anything? How many games do you think Bortles will have started half way thru his 9th season? Does this still sound like these two are still the same player to you?

From another point of view, Peyton Manning and Blake Bortles were both 22 years old when they started their first game and 23 years old when they started their 2nd season and 21st game. Both won 3 games their first year, both threw more INTs than TDs their first year, Peyton had a 56% comp year 1, Bortles a 58% comp year 1. So I ask you wouldn't Peyton Manning and Blake Bortles be closer to being the same player than say Brian Hoyer and Blake Bortles being the same player?
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Not sure why you're off on the tangent of comparing Bortles and Manning in their rookie seasons...it has no relevance to Bortles right now since he's not a rook anymore. Once again, you're all giddy by the fact that he has shown improvement from terrible in 2014 to below average in 2015...as if his improvement is going to be linear from here on out...No...No, he could very well stall out right here.

& to answer your 1st 2 questions, no it doesn't matter as much considering the fact that 1 guy was picked in the top 3 of the draft, expected to produce & produce early as well as carry the franchise for the next 10 years, while the other was undrafted, expected to do nothing & had to take the long route just to get a decent opportunity to start....as do most of his undrafted bretheren do. 22 starts is 22 starts & the learning curve is virtually the same for guys who are new to the starters role regardless of age. And while I'll agree with everyone here that Hoyer is likely as good as he's going to be right now, which is not good enough, There's not a whole lot of reason to believe that Bortles is gonna get that much better than he is at this very moment after so many starts. He's still inconsistent with his accuracy..still a TO machine and still takes too many sacks. Though he has shown improvement, he's still not even close to franchise qb material & has not even come close to being worthy of being selected #3 overall. You tried comparing Bortles to Manning in their rookie seasons....well in Manning's 2nd full season as the starter, which is where Bortles is right now, not only did he flip his TD/Int ratio, & he did it while not letting his TDs drop & he cut his int's in half...........& he led his team to a 13-3 record. While Bortles has already thrown more TD's than he did last year, He's on track to throw just as many if not more ints than he did last year..oh by the way, the Jags still stink. So to answer your 3rd question, again no, Bortles is nowhere close to Manning as the same type of player..Despite his improvement, he's still closer to Hoyer. When that improvement begins translating into wins as it does for like 98% of good qbs then it becomes an apt comparison..
 
Mr teX said:
Not sure why you're off on the tangent of comparing Bortles and Manning in their rookie seasons...it has no relevance to Bortles right now since he's not a rook anymore. Once again, you're all giddy by the fact that he has shown improvement from terrible in 2014 to below average in 2015...as if his improvement is going to be linear from here on out...No...No, he could very well stall out right here.

& to answer your 1st 2 questions, no it doesn't matter as much considering the fact that 1 guy was picked in the top 3 of the draft, expected to produce & produce early as well as carry the franchise for the next 10 years, while the other was undrafted, expected to do nothing & had to take the long route just to get a decent opportunity to start....as do most of his undrafted bretheren do. 22 starts is 22 starts & the learning curve is virtually the same for guys who are new to the starters role regardless of age. And while I'll agree with everyone here that Hoyer is likely as good as he's going to be right now, which is not good enough, There's not a whole lot of reason to believe that Bortles is gonna get that much better than he is at this very moment after so many starts. He's still inconsistent with his accuracy..still a TO machine and still takes too many sacks. Though he has shown improvement, he's still not even close to franchise qb material & has not even come close to being worthy of being selected #3 overall. You tried comparing Bortles to Manning in their rookie seasons....well in Manning's 2nd full season as the starter, which is where Bortles is right now, not only did he flip his TD/Int ratio, & he did it while not letting his TDs drop & he cut his int's in half...........& he led his team to a 13-3 record. While Bortles has already thrown more TD's than he did last year, He's on track to throw just as many if not more ints than he did last year..oh by the way, the Jags still stink. So to answer your 3rd question, again no, Bortles is nowhere close to Manning as the same type of player..Despite his improvement, he's still closer to Hoyer. When that improvement begins translating into wins as it does for like 98% of good qbs then it becomes an apt comparison..
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Nope, just pointing out comparing a 9 yr vet to a year and a half vet was not a fair comparison and comparing a year and half vet to a year and half vet, same age with similar stats was.
 
Texian said:
Nope, just pointing out comparing a 9 yr vet to a year and a half vet was not a fair comparison and comparing a year and half vet to a year and half vet, same age with similar stats was.
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You know when I see such hilarious arguments from the homers, I really wish they had to pay the salaries of guys like Clowney. Then you'd see what a human meltdown really looks like.
 
Stop it already. The guy has bad knees, he hasn't shown the toughness to be able to take on big maulers, he hasn't shown he can be stout at the point of attack when he's got a guard and a tackle in his face. He will get crushed there. He needs to play in space, you have to protect him. He can't even stay healthy at OLB, how is this going to get any better playing 3-4 DE when he gets doubled teamed by 2 big linemen instead of a TE? Dude is built like a praying mantis, he has no business playing DL.

And stop comparing him or bringing up Justin Smith too. It's like comparing Watt to Derrick Thomas. Two totally different players. Justin Smith was a terrible athlete, he was way too slow/big to be an effective 4-3 DE. However his technique and leverage were amazing, he was built like a fire plug. Tough as nails. Perfect 3-4 DE. He was basically Watt minus the freak athleticism. Clowney is lanky, he lives off his speed (at least he used to), super talented, his balance/leverage leaves a lot to be desired, he's not the toughest guy on the planet. And who's to say Clowney would even want to do this? He sees himself as a sack artist, he wants to freelance and put up great numbers. He doesn't play DL to help the team and help Mercilus be the guy that Clowney wants to be. So..just stop it.
 
Texecutioner said:
You know when I see such hilarious arguments from the homers, I really wish they had to pay the salaries of guys like Clowney. Then you'd see what a human meltdown really looks like.
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Texecutioner said:
You know when I see such hilarious arguments from the homers, I really wish they had to pay the salaries of guys like Clowney. Then you'd see what a human meltdown really looks like.
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Lol, says the guy using Stephen A. Smith youtube videos to bolster his argument and another guy comparing the rookie seasons of 2 guys when the guy in question is in his 2nd season....Yeah, Bortles was really impressive last week drawing that facemask to win the game....He's looking sooo worthy of that #3 overall pick right now.
 
Texian said:
...So I ask you wouldn't Peyton Manning and Blake Bortles be closer to being the same player than say Brian Hoyer and Blake Bortles being the same player?
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Mr teX said:
Lol, says the guy using Stephen A. Smith youtube videos to bolster his argument and another guy comparing the rookie seasons of 2 guys when the guy in question is in his 2nd season....Yeah, Bortles was really impressive last week drawing that facemask to win the game....He's looking sooo worthy of that #3 overall pick right now.
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Take away his best game of the 9 played so far this year - that would be against TB - and he is below 55% completion rate, 13:10 on TD/INT and a rating of 80%. Assuming a linear progression on his improvement, he will finally live up to that #3 pick around 2018.
 
Bill O’Brien guardedly optimistic about Jadeveon Clowney’s status for this week
By Aaron Wilson on November 17, 2015 at 3:09 PM
Chronicle

Although Texans coach Bill O’Brien said he expected outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney to return this week from a lower back injury, his answer wasn’t set in stone.


With Clowney’s problematic back, it’s typically unpredictable how it will respond. O’Brien was guardedly optimistic about Clowney, who was scratched for the Texans’ 10-6 win over the Cincinnati Bengals and replaced by Whitney Mercilus in the starting lineup at right outside linebacker as Mercilus recorded five tackles, three for losses.

Clowney attempted to practice last Wednesday, but aggravated an injury that’s muscular in nature with tests determining there was no structural damage for the former top overall pick from South Carolina.

“I do, but we will have to see [Wednesday],” O’Brien said of Clowney.

When asked if Clowney would be back in the starting lineup once he’s healthy, O’Brien replied: “We play the guys that practice well. If you don’t practice well, you’re not going to play.”
 
Outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney was feeling good enough to return to practice Wednesday and, barring any further setbacks, will play against the Jets.

Asked if he was “100 percent” recovered from the lower back issues that kept him out of the Cincinnati game, Clowney replied, “I’m just glad to be back. I’m looking forward to playing against the Jets.”

Clowney said the biggest challenge confronting the Texans on Sunday will be “stopping the run.” The Jets’ Chris Ivory is the NFL’s ninth leading rusher with 643 yards. He’s averaging 4.1 yards per carry and has scored six touchdowns.

Regarding former Texans teammate Ryan Fitzpatrick, Clowney said it’s important to “keep him in the pocket.”

The oft-injured Clowney also missed the Jacksonville game with a sprained ankle. He has played in just 11 of the 25 games in 2014-15.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2015/11/texans-jadeveon-clowney-expects-to-play-sunday/
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JD has the heart of a lion. You can't keep my boy off the field too long without him wanting to be back out there with his teammates.
 
Clowney is 100%......












......ready to begin working on his next injury.

I'm thinking "ankle" what about you guys?
 
TURF TOE! Oh snap! I hadn't thought about that. What is the over/under on Clown having to deal with turf toe before the season is out?

I bet you nailed it.
 
Hervoyel said:
TURF TOE! Oh snap! I hadn't thought about that. What is the over/under on Clown having to deal with turf toe before the season is out?

I bet you nailed it.
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Nailed it - turf Toe. Hey that's funny Hervy. But listen man, for a fat slob like yourself, you really got no room to be critical of somebody elses difficulty and yes failings in coping with vulnerabilities to physical injury. I've had some injuries including a joint dislocation from playing ball and it can be tough, but I can only imagine how difficult something like microfracture surgery and the related rehab and recovery one hast to go thru.
 
Hervoyel said:
Do me a favor man, lay off the "fat slob" stuff. It's not all that amusing to me and I'd prefer you find some other way to talk to me.
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You may not rememeber but in the past you've made a few self deprecating comments on this Board about your own issues with fighting the "battle of the bulge". OK, my apologies, favor granted.
 
Much obliged. I do remember that and not to derail but I'm dealing with some issues right now related to my health and I'm not really too pleased with what it's done to my weight. Last year at this time I was doing 4 miles an evening in a little under an hour, feeling great and closing on my ideal weight. Then both Achilles tendons crapped the bed, I tore something in the bottom of my foot trying to get out of the way of a car on Fannin downtown at lunch, and now I can't walk more than a few blocks. It sucks and I was never real crazy about the whole conversation to begin with so again, thank you.
 
So not that much unlike the subject of our thread sounds like you are going thru a period of challenges to your health/physical well being and just a general inability to enjoy the life you are accustomed to, so I hope things turns around for you and you get back to normal ASAP. Good luck Hervoyel.
 
Latest Vegas odds on Clowney's injury prediction for this week vs the Jets:

Knee 1/2
Ankle 1/4
Hamstring 1/8
Biceps 1/8
Concussion 1/16
Shoulder 1/20
Hip 1/20
Ribs 1/40
Wrist 1/40
Loud fans 1/80
Tight compression 1/100
 
Didn't he get a 14 million dollar signing bonus and 22 million dollars of his contract guaranteed? I don't think he's too concerned. We're stuck with him for the duration of his 4 year contract. For better or worse. Everybody in the league knows by now that he is VERY injury prone. It is what it is. Maybe they can play him in another position.
 
I'm still backing the Clown to be an impact player on this defense. Best case scenario, he stays banged up till his rookie contact is up, he gets resigned on a cheap contract and then plays up to his potential.
 
Hervoyel said:
Much obliged. I do remember that and not to derail but I'm dealing with some issues right now related to my health and I'm not really too pleased with what it's done to my weight. Last year at this time I was doing 4 miles an evening in a little under an hour, feeling great and closing on my ideal weight. Then both Achilles tendons crapped the bed, I tore something in the bottom of my foot trying to get out of the way of a car on Fannin downtown at lunch, and now I can't walk more than a few blocks. It sucks and I was never real crazy about the whole conversation to begin with so again, thank you.
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Damn, that sucks.
 
Clowneys first sack will be agansit Fitz cus he likes to hold on to the ball and run when no one is,open
 
Clowney just needs to go ahead and start wearing something that prevents sand from getting into his vag so easily.... maybe Under Armour can come up with something. idonno:
 
Norg said:
Clowneys first sack will be agansit Fitz cus he likes to hold on to the ball and run when no one is,open
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So you are predicting multiple sacks ? I hope you are right, if so should be a good day for our defense.
 
I focused a lot on Clowney yesterday from my end zone seat. I would say Clowney is still nowhere near where he was in college, from an athletic standpoint. We here knew that would be the case, thanks to CND. I saw Clowney off his feet (sometimes without contact) more than an NFL pass rusher should be. But, Clowney did display hustle. Maybe not Wattesque hustle, but above average NFL lineman hustle. I think he will help this defense. As long as he can stay on the field. Not at #1 overall performance level. Not yet. But a solid contributor.
 
Jadeveon Clowney is quietly beginning to emerge as the player the Texans thought he could be when they drafted him No. 1 overall in the 2014 draft.

Clowney has been steadily impressive as a run defender all season, with the exception of the occasional hiccup when he goes AWOL and loses contain, but the Jets game marked the first real sighting of Clowney as a pass-rushing force, and that does not bode well for opposing offenses.

The Texans have long had a dream scenario of teams trying to defend both Watt and Clowney in passing situations, whether they align side by side or come from different sides of the line. The Jets got to experience the first act of that play, and it didn’t end well for them. Clowney has always had immense natural athleticism and physical ability, but he hasn’t shown a whole host of technique to go along with that.

In this game, however, we started to see Clowney’s version of Watt’s perfected swim move off the line, leaving offensive linemen grasping at air and trying to recover in his wake.
One benefit to both Watt and Clowney is that they have the physical ability to play both inside and out, and both sides of the line. This makes game-planning for either one of them difficult, let alone the prospect of both of them at the same time. It’s been a while coming, but we might be starting to see the rewards of the gamble Houston made when they took Clowney with the first pick of the draft. It just might be enough to take them to the playoffs.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...on-clowney-helping-fuel-houstons-playoff-bid/
*****
This is the same link that PapaL posted above, and it's a pretty positive review of Clowney in yesterdays game.
 
IDEXAN said:
Jadeveon Clowney is quietly beginning to emerge as the player the Texans thought he could be when they drafted him No. 1 overall in the 2014 draft.

Clowney has been steadily impressive as a run defender all season, with the exception of the occasional hiccup when he goes AWOL and loses contain, but the Jets game marked the first real sighting of Clowney as a pass-rushing force, and that does not bode well for opposing offenses.

The Texans have long had a dream scenario of teams trying to defend both Watt and Clowney in passing situations, whether they align side by side or come from different sides of the line. The Jets got to experience the first act of that play, and it didn’t end well for them. Clowney has always had immense natural athleticism and physical ability, but he hasn’t shown a whole host of technique to go along with that.

In this game, however, we started to see Clowney’s version of Watt’s perfected swim move off the line, leaving offensive linemen grasping at air and trying to recover in his wake.
One benefit to both Watt and Clowney is that they have the physical ability to play both inside and out, and both sides of the line. This makes game-planning for either one of them difficult, let alone the prospect of both of them at the same time. It’s been a while coming, but we might be starting to see the rewards of the gamble Houston made when they took Clowney with the first pick of the draft. It just might be enough to take them to the playoffs.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...on-clowney-helping-fuel-houstons-playoff-bid/
*****
This is the same link that PapaL posted above, and it's a pretty positive review of Clowney in yesterdays game.
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I wish the review offered more analysis. It seemed to be a blurb and a lone clip.
 
He made a few plays yesterday...had a batted ball late in the game, few tackles ..don't know if he was credited with a 1/2 sack on the sack with Simon, but it looked to me that both of them got there at about the same time...so he's contributing..obviously though no where near what his draft position says he should be though. Looks to still be getting the timing down with the other guys..if he can stay on the field.......& that's a big if, i can see him improving to the point he could be just enough of a problem for teams to pay attention to at the end of the season, which you hope would give him momentum coming to next year.
 
ANYTHING we get from Clowney this year is Icing on the Cake and unexpected IF, and it's a big one, he does no further SIGNIFICANT harm to his knees or compensatory injuries. I expected little for this year. But my fingers are crossed that he makes it to the off season relatively safely to get that additional recovery time he needs. I suspect we see more of the real Clowney next season, whether good or bad.
 
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