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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

PapaL said:
You realize that was a change in the league from a defensive and run oriented league to pass happy sissy ass rules. So no 30 TDs and 4000 yards isn't impressive.
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I know that change took place but I just can't agree that 30TD's and 4000 yards is not impressive. I'm impressed with that. Ideally it would come along with a 1200-1500 yard RB and a few more wins than the Jags have to be truly "WE GOT A BADASS HERE!" but it's still pretty good stuff regardless.
 
Hervoyel said:
I know that change took place but I just can't agree that 30TD's and 4000 yards is not impressive. I'm impressed with that. Ideally it would come along with a 1200-1500 yard RB and a few more wins than the Jags have to be truly "WE GOT A BADASS HERE!" but it's still pretty good stuff regardless.
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I remember when 22 TDs & 4000 yards wasn't **** around here. & that was like 3 years ago.
 
Hervoyel said:
I know that change took place but I just can't agree that 30TD's and 4000 yards is not impressive. I'm impressed with that. Ideally it would come along with a 1200-1500 yard RB and a few more wins than the Jags have to be truly "WE GOT A BADASS HERE!" but it's still pretty good stuff regardless.
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It's becomes impressive when you're taking care of the ball & not turning it over with regularity & in crucial situations..Your team winning games kinda helps with making it appear more impressive too....But as it stands now, the stats are hollow b/c none of the aforementioned is happening with Bortles. Stafford & Bortles' numbers are damn near identical. noone's thinking that anything he's done this season is impressive though. I liken it to a volume shooter in basketball. Yeah you're averaging 30 pts a game..but if you're shooting it 28 times in the game & your team is getting blown out every night, it's just not really all that.
 
A total and complete disaster from day one. EVERYONE in Houston knew we needed a quarterback and Obrien and Smith pick this guy. Someone we didn't even need and still don't!!!. A complete bust after 2 years. By now it should be perfectly clear to everyone that we need someone other than Obrien and Smith running the draft.
 
Texans' Jadeveon Clowney healthy as bid to turn potential into production begins
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One day after the Texans' 30-0 playoff loss to Kansas City, outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney cleaned out his locker in a tomb-like dressing room at NRG Stadium.

Before heading for the door, Clowney vowed to return in 2016 and "dominate the league."
et with the media after Monday's first organized team activity, Clowney wouldn't make any promises but did pronounce himself fit and ready to make up for time lost to injuries in his first two NFL seasons.


"I feel great," he said. "After two seasons, I think I just got healthy enough to be where I need to be."

Clowney said he's 100 percent recovered from the foot injury he suffered in the 15th game in 2015. No surgery was required. Earlier last season, he was hampered by an ankle injury.

Clowney admitted to suffering bouts of frustration when he was sidelined because of injuries.
Of course, it's frustrating," he said. "It feels like you're letting the team down when you're not out there. Injuries happen, (but) you've just got to be mentally tough to come back and show the guys you're ready to play."
The good news was that he never felt any pain from the microfracture knee surgery he underwent in 2014, his rookie year.

Until Clowney is able to play a full season, injuries will be an issue.

"He's out there with his teammates working hard, taking good reps, being able to carry the information from the meeting to the walkthrough to the field," coach Bill O'Brien said Monday.
***
"For him to add to the mix, it would be great and allow us to have a chance to win more games."

No one would like that more than Clowney, who had 40 tackles and 4½ sacks in 13 games last season. He showed he can play the run, but that he needed to improve as a pass rusher.

Improvement comes with being on the field. If he stays healthy, there's no telling what Clowney is capable of doing - including dominating.

"Just come back and work hard, learn the playbook and show the guys I'm ready to go," he said.

This is Clowney's third season working with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and linebackers coach Mike Vrabel. With experience has come a comfort level but a continued determination to prove what he's capable of doing on a consistent basis.

"I'm very comfortable," Clowney said. "I think I just got the defense down, and now I'm figuring out what everybody else does around me so I can know where the weakness is on our defense and where to help."

Clowney knows there's pressure on him to produce. He wants to add to the Watt-Mercilus mix that harassed so many quarterbacks last season.

"I think it'd be great," he said. "We work on this every day at practice, and we know what we've got up front. We just have to get after it."
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...on-Clowney-healthy-as-bid-to-turn-7941136.php
 
infantrycak said:
There is a thread for BBQ discussion in the No Football Talk forum - the posts are now there. Thx.
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Sounds good. Besides, doesn't a BBQ thread require Vince Wilfork to have done something BBQ related for it to stay in the Texans Talk forum for any length of time?
 
Well Clowney says he healthy. The Lisfranc is apparently no big deal since it was a sprain. Going into year 2, year 3 technically...hopefully the lights are all on and he's out there making an impact on every snap. His run defense has already been very good so here's a productive and healthy season.
 
PapaL said:
Well Clowney says he healthy. The Lisfranc is apparently no big deal since it was a sprain. Going into year 2, year 3 technically...hopefully the lights are all on and he's out there making an impact on every snap. His run defense has already been very good so here's a productive and healthy season.
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I certainly find the news about the Lisfranc injury worrisome because I fear it's just wishful thinking to shrug it off as a "nonserious" injury because my impression is that any kind of Lifranc injury is a threat to cause more problems later, i.e., there's no such thing as a minor or nonserious Lisfranc injury.
 
IDEXAN said:
I certainly find the news about the Lisfranc injury worrisome because I fear it's just wishful thinking to shrug it off as a "nonserious" injury because my impression is that any kind of Lifranc injury is a threat to cause more problems later, i.e., there's no such thing as a minor or nonserious Lisfranc injury.
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Cloak wrote up something in the offseason injury thread. From my understanding there are different levels; sprains and fractures being the examples we've seen as Texans fans. Clowney's was not a fracture like Schaub's. So that's a plus in my book.
 
IDEXAN said:
I certainly find the news about the Lisfranc injury worrisome because I fear it's just wishful thinking to shrug it off as a "nonserious" injury because my impression is that any kind of Lifranc injury is a threat to cause more problems later, i.e., there's no such thing as a minor or nonserious Lisfranc injury.
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We all know Lisfranc injuries ruin quarterbacks, that's indisputable.
 
PapaL said:
Cloak wrote up something in the offseason injury thread. From my understanding there are different levels; sprains and fractures being the examples we've seen as Texans fans. Clowney's was not a fracture like Schaub's. So that's a plus in my book.
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OK that's encouraging and hopefully it's just me overreacting here. Thanks PapaL.
 
So, he was unproductive in his last college season due to a hip injury... His rookie season was inconsequential due to microfracture surgery, and his sophomore season ended prematurely due to a Lisfranc injury. Predicting a productive career is purely wishful thinking, at this point.
 
It sucks that this thread was started by Marshall and I have to see his face every time this thread is bumped to the top.
 
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If Clowney could come alive this season for a full season, then that would be really big for this team. Their offense is going to get rolling at some point, and Clowney could be such a difference maker that would help the players around him since Watt will be running around like a mad dog. The Texans didn't get better on defense in the off season, but the emergence of Clowney would be an impact that would be a big one for the unit as a whole. It would be like having a brand new explosive player.
 
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PapaL said:
Cloak wrote up something in the offseason injury thread. From my understanding there are different levels; sprains and fractures being the examples we've seen as Texans fans. Clowney's was not a fracture like Schaub's. So that's a plus in my book.
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Clowney's Lisfranc was evidently a moderate (Grade II, as opposed to minimal Grade I) partial tear. Just to clarify something, Schaub's Lisfranc actually carried a better prognosis for a severe Lisfranc injury BECAUSE it involved a fracture (the ligament still attached to the fracture bone fragment, which could be more securely reattached to the bone from which it was fractured). Had the Lisfranc ligament torn completely (Grade III) and dislocated without a fracture, the prognosis would have been worse (since ligament to ligament or ligament to bone repair is less secure/predictable).
 
As I've said even before he was drafted and was unproductive as a a jr, clowney was never a good pass rusher. As credited, he was a better guy vs the run than most thought. Clowney healthy, 100% is not going to be a good pass rusher. He can't bend or change directions. His 1st step get off is really good, but in the nfl, o-linemen recover and qbs step in the pocket. Until he learns to turn his hips into his speed rush, he will continue to get pushed by the qb.
 
leebigeztx said:
As I've said even before he was drafted and was unproductive as a a jr, clowney was never a good pass rusher. As credited, he was a better guy vs the run than most thought. Clowney healthy, 100% is not going to be a good pass rusher. He can't bend or change directions. His 1st step get off is really good, but in the nfl, o-linemen recover and qbs step in the pocket. Until he learns to turn his hips into his speed rush, he will continue to get pushed by the qb.
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That's a problem, since it's difficult to quickly turn your hips when you have ongoing core and lower extremity issues.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That's a problem, since it's difficult to quickly turn your hips when you have ongoing core and lower extremity issues.
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This is true, but alot of it is flexibility. That's why flexible, bendable guys can naturally get to the point of the qb. They can turn speed to power and power to speed. Its one thing to be be an oversized guy like Mario Williams, JJ Watt, Kevin Carter, or even a younger Strahan. Those guys were 300 lbs and could bull rush to 10 sacks.
 
JB said:
If they play him on the strong side in place of Simon and he can set the edge and lessen the double teams on Watt he don't need to rack up a lot of sacks
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Well then he'd end up being used in pass coverage to go against TE in passing downs which is not what you want Clowny doing on passing downs.
 
IDEXAN said:
Well then he'd end up being used in pass coverage to go against TE in passing downs which is not what you want Clowny doing on passing downs.
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That's conventional but not the only way it's done. Assign a S TE duty.

This kind of thing gets done all the time. Like Gronk is only beating SLBs or something.
 
IDEXAN said:
Well then he'd end up being used in pass coverage to go against TE in passing downs which is not what you want Clowny doing on passing downs.
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infantrycak said:
That's conventional but not the only way it's done. Assign a S TE duty.

This kind of thing gets done all the time. Like Gronk is only beating SLBs or something.
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As Cak said the Texans have options... I'm sure they will mix it up a lot, and Clowney and Mercilus both will move around. Having Watt, Mercilus and Clowney all attacking the QB with the TE not helping with the blocking seems like a good thing...
 
JB said:
As Cak said the Texans have options... I'm sure they will mix it up a lot, and Clowney and Mercilus both will move around. Having Watt, Mercilus and Clowney all attacking the QB with the TE not helping with the blocking seems like a good thing...
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Do they have a safety who can consistently do an effective job of covering the TE ? But the point is Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers running pass patters.
 
Quick II Draw said:
ERMAHGERD

JERDERVEYERN CLERNEY!!!

clowney2-1-1-13.gif
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The one tackle that made Jadeveon a multi millionaire and brought instant fame. A case of being in the right place at the right time. A 6'6" 270 lb monster meets a 5'6" 176 lb scat back. Being more lucky than good. This one play fooled, snookered and buffaloed a lot of people, including Bob McNair.
 
Texian said:
The one tackle that made Jadeveon a multi millionaire and brought instant fame. A case of being in the right place at the right time. A 6'6" 270 lb monster meets a 5'6" 176 lb scat back. Being more lucky than good. This one play fooled, snookered and buffaloed a lot of people, including Bob McNair.
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You say that like no one knew who he was before that play, and as though that was the only play he'd ever made.
 
IDEXAN said:
Do they have a safety who can consistently do an effective job of covering the TE ? But the point is Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers running pass patters.
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I will settle for what Demps gave the team. Allen was really good before he tore his achillies and I'm on record as saying Dillon was one of my favorite safeties in the draft. Hopefully one of the 3 will be able to cover the TE. Odds are that covering the TE wont be as big of an issue as it has been since this franchise's inception. Hopefully one of these guys will be as good as D.Manning was.
 
JB said:
He was drafted to help the team. However he can best do that is the point
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Sorry but gonna disagree with you & the four who liked it. Clowney was signed to disrupt the QB and get sacks; anything else he happened to accomplish would be gravy. This was how he was expected to "help the team". Now that he has been injured; if he can occasionally do what he was drafted..great. If not, coaches will need to find other ways to keep him on field.
 
badboy said:
so we swap Simon's 5 sacks for Clowney's..what?
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no one not named Watt is going to play 100% of defensive snaps... I didn't say do away with Simon completely. I just think Clowney is better on strong side with Mercilus opposite. And I think that Clowney will surpass 5 sacks by quite a bit
 
badboy said:
Sorry but gonna disagree with you & the four who liked it. Clowney was signed to disrupt the QB and get sacks; anything else he happened to accomplish would be gravy. This was how he was expected to "help the team". Now that he has been injured; if he can occasionally do what he was drafted..great. If not, coaches will need to find other ways to keep him on field.
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So they pull him off the field on run downs? You're nitpicking. He was drafted to help the team. Most thought he would be a sack specialist. No telling what OB and McNair thought. And he may yet surprise you. Disagree all you want
 
badboy said:
Sorry but gonna disagree with you & the four who liked it. Clowney was signed to disrupt the QB and get sacks; anything else he happened to accomplish would be gravy. This was how he was expected to "help the team". Now that he has been injured; if he can occasionally do what he was drafted..great. If not, coaches will need to find other ways to keep him on field.
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I think you are confusing 'best at' and 'solely drafted for.' Really kind of silly with a 1.1 pick who while anticipated to be a stellar pass rusher was also noted to be good against the run.

And while not a rule, don't think it would be all that surprising for a 1.1 pick to be better at both than a 4.31 pick.

Whatever is best for the team.
 
Thanks I will..all comments when he was drafted negative and positive were about his sack production not about stopping run except he was strong enough to do so. An example would be signing Johnathan Joseph to help the team when he was signed to shut down receiver on his side. Will Fuller was drafted to use his speed to get past defenders and go deep not to block or catch short passes. If he does those successfully, he will still be judged on his deep routes.
 
infantrycak said:
I think you are confusing 'best at' and 'solely drafted for.' Really kind of silly with a 1.1 pick who while anticipated to be a stellar pass rusher was also noted to be good against the run.

And while not a rule, don't think it would be all that surprising for a 1.1 pick to be better at both than a 4.31 pick.

Whatever is best for the team.
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"Do they have a safety who can consistently do an effective job of covering the TE ? But the point is Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers running pass patters." Idexan #1026
"He was drafted to help the team. However he can best do that is the point" JB in response.
I understood JB's comment to mean that Clowney was to do whatever coaches tell him. All players are expected to do that. IDexan was saying Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers and I agreed with his point and still do.
 
You act as if there is one reason a player is drafted. There is a prime reason ...which implies others. Guaranteed when the Texans were evaluating whether to draft Clowney contemplating him moving to OLB there were discussions on his ability to stop the run and drop into coverage. If he was a one trick pony his grade would have been lower.
 
infantrycak said:
... when the Texans were evaluating whether to draft Clowney contemplating him moving to OLB there were discussions on his ability to stop the run and drop into coverage. If he was a one trick pony his grade would have been lower.
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First, I understand what you're saying & agree. Jd Clowney is not a SOLB. He's not an OLB & many were saying he wasn't a fit for our team & should have been graded much lower ad a LB.

Kalil Mack was the best rated OLB/Edge rusher.

Now, on a 4-3 team...
 
thunderkyss said:
First, I understand what you're saying & agree. Jd Clowney is not a SOLB. He's not an OLB & many were saying he wasn't a fit for our team & should have been graded much lower ad a LB.

Kalil Mack was the best rated OLB/Edge rusher.

Now, on a 4-3 team...
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I wanted Mack so we agree there. But a great many evaluators thought Clowney was exactly a 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE tweener. I'm guessing RC was one of them and he's had a bit of experience with the subject.
 
Mack is so overrated. I know the response will be "He has been better than Clowney", but that is setting the bar low for obvious reasons. He built his reputation on a 3-game stretch this last year where he got 9 sacks, 12 QB hits and 12 TFL's. Outside of that he has been positively pedestrian for a 1:5 draft pick rated the best pass rusher in the draft. 10 sacks for the other 29 games in his career. In 75% of his career games, he has either one or no QB hits at all. Mercilus (another DE drafted off of one good college season and moved to OLB) had a 2015 season that compared favorably to Mack, but we discount what Mercilus did because of the "bunches" argument.

The Texans are going to use Clowney where he makes the team better. Hand in the dirt. Standing up. Set an edge. Run. Rush. Coverage. Does he make the defense better? Does he generate positive plays? Does he create havoc? Then what stats he gets or what position he is on the depth chart/lines up on the field doesn't matter to me. Just go make plays. My 1:1 expectations went out the door with the words "microfracture" and "lisfranc".
 
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