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The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread

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Naiirb said:
Just to think about it. If Russel Wilson or Colin Kaepernick were sitting behind Schaub at this point, Schaub would still remain the starter.
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the other day I raised the point about how Harbaugh had the nuts to draft Kapernick and then play him when Alex Smith was productive and efficient. If Kubiak were the 9ers coach I'm not sure Kubiak even drafts a guy like Kapernick because he would have been OK with Smith's play.
 
eriadoc said:
There have been HOF QBs that have been benched for poor play. There have been Super Bowl winning QBs that have been benched for poor play. Schaub doesn't have anything close to that pedigree, and he's not going to bench himself.
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You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).

I think the case for keeping Kubiak beyond Schaub is a strong one when you consider that despite the obvious limitations at the QB position , this team has been at the top of the league in total yards , scoring and time of possession over the last three seasons ....


Schaub's two picks today account for a 13 point swing. Anything was better than throwing that pass ... throw it away or just fall down , take a sack and punt.
 
Corrosion said:
You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).

I think the case for keeping Kubiak beyond Schaub is a strong one when you consider that despite the obvious limitations at the QB position , this team has been at the top of the league in total yards , scoring and time of possession over the last three seasons ....


Schaub's two picks today account for a 13 point swing. Anything was better than throwing that pass ... throw it away or just fall down , take a sack and punt.
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I think that if Yates or Keemun start today we have just as good a chance of winning this game as we did with Schaub, I think of Yates or Keenum start for the rest of the season we see what we have in them, if we reach the playoffs with them then great, if they stink it up then we have ourselves a draft spot to go get a decent QB to place into an excellent position to succeed and have a better chance to win the Super Bowl next season, and the season after that.

I don't see the point on sticking with a guy who has clearly lost his way. I think you put pre-injury Schaub into this team we are a contender. But that isn't an option. Cheers for dragging us to respectability Matt, sorry your body gave up on you before you got to reap the rewards, lets move on though.

Schaubs rare meltdowns used to be the final straw once in a while when the team wasn't as good, between the way the meltdowns happen most weeks now, his good play not having the same ceiling it once did, and the fact that the team is good enough apart from him now (not the final straw in an all around bad performance) we just cannot waste any more time.

If Kubiak is taking the blame in the presses though, I just don't see what's needed happenning unfortunately. And you know what? If someone needs firing, and the HC wants to take the blame, then ill struggle to get too upset. I believe in Kubiak to be successful if he makes the bold decision and fixes the QB position. If he's not willing, see ya.
 
Corrosion said:
You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).
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As I answered in your poll thread, if we're going to continue to see rookie mistakes from our QB, then I want to see the rookie upside. Schaub is very good as long as those mean old pass rushers leave him alone. If defenses insist upon rushing Schaub, then we're screwed.
 
htownfan32 said:
Kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at QB, though, and that QB is regressing.

2010 Matt Schaub with our current defense could have won a Super Bowl. 2013 Matt Schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.
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I'm sorry but imho anyone who thinks that Kubs offensive philosophy and play calling ok is diluding themselves. Every Texans fan knew what was going to happen in the second half, the same thing that always happens when we go into the half with a lead. Try not to lose. You know what philosophy and play calling works? John Fox in Denver, Bill Belliceck in New England why because they dont give other teams the opportunity to come back. Every drive they want to and are trying to score a TD. We do not.

Now for Schaub. I personally have been a proponent of his even comming into this year. Even after I watch Case and TJ light up preseason ( i give the edge to Case imo) Schaub lost me this game though. And it was comming before hand. I don't think I have ever seen so many pick6s ever. And the one today is the reason we lost. For anyone saying the defense gave up points they gave up a total of 13 points which combined with our 20 equals a Texans win agains the "best" team in the NFL. Too many times does Schaub go fetal when on of our other QBs would have escaped the situation. Now im just venting but you get the idea. They both need to go. They have had their chance it's someone elses turn. With the next person be better who knows.
 
welsh texan said:
I can't help but feel like we should start case/tj, if either of them fails we have a nice draft pick to plug the hole at QB with and the money we save on having a rookie contract QB can be used to resign the quality young team we have to put around them.

Today is the first time I've come to the conclusion that Schaub can't get it done anymore. He's knackered and it upsets me to see it because I give him a lot of credit for pulling our team to respectability.

Kubiak gets the opportunity to sort this out for me if, and only if, he's willing to face up to the fact that he no longer has a QB.

The rest of this team is good, some issues on the back end of D that I believe will even themselves out, plenty of potential on the oline and I do trust the coaching staff to make the most of that talent, eventually. I see a lot of positives apart from the most important position on the team.
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This is where I'm at, too. That 1 on 4 sack sealed it for me :facepalm:
 
I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built
 
eriadoc said:
As I answered in your poll thread, if we're going to continue to see rookie mistakes from our QB, then I want to see the rookie upside. Schaub is very good as long as those mean old pass rushers leave him alone. If defenses insist upon rushing Schaub, then we're screwed.
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We're on the same page ... I'd rather see Keenum making rookie mistakes with some hope of upside than Schaub who's a known product.


Norg said:
I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built
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That's a really good question .... Other than rookies available in the draft ... who's out there to be had via FA / trade ?!
 
The Texans will still win the division, get in the playoffs and we'll see what happens. The defense is playing at a high level. If the Texans just stop gifting pick sixes to the other team, they will win 10 games. I am not giving up on the season at 2-2.
 
The Third Man said:
The Texans will still win the division, get in the playoffs and we'll see what happens. The defense is playing at a high level. If the Texans just stop gifting pick sixes to the other team, they will win 10 games. I am not giving up on the season at 2-2.
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This team isn't winning the division. They likely go 0-2 against the colts, and drop their next game against the titans. Also likely lose to the Broncos and the niners. That right there is 7 losses, assuming Schaub doesn't Schaub it up in any other game this year, which is so unlikely that it's just absurd to even consider.
 
mridge01 said:
Yeah, but he called the horrible play yesterday. Driving for the 2 possession lead when Foster is running strong, and you call that play into the huddle. Bad, bad Kubiak.
:kubepalm:
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An NFL coach should be able to trust his NFL QB to do the right thing no matter what play is called. He shouldn't have to dumb down the offense for a 7 year starter in his system.
 
mridge01 said:
Yeah, but he called the horrible play yesterday. Driving for the 2 possession lead when Foster is running strong, and you call that play into the huddle. Bad, bad Kubiak.
:kubepalm:
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Don't necessarily have a problem with passing in that situation, would've preferred to run it. the choice of pass play however....big problem. The play action wasn't working at all yesterday...just about every single time they called it, Schaub had someone in his face....Even with that, Schaub has to be cognizant of the situation there & not throw that ball....
 
Mr teX said:
Don't necessarily have a problem with passing in that situation, would've preferred to run it. the choice of pass play however....big problem. The play action wasn't working at all yesterday...just about every single time they called it, Schaub had someone in his face....Even with that, Schaub has to be cognizant of the situation there & not throw that ball....
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I'm sorry but Kubiak has to go now, his post game interview just sealed the deal for me. We all wondered if Kubiak trusted Matt, we know the answer now, he definitely doesn't trust his starting QB. Kubiak went Consveriak to start the 3rd quarter instead of just putting his foot on their throat, he tried to run the ball, then went all air Kubiak at the worst spot. Sherman was playing the right side of the field the entire game, way to go Kubiak attack their best CB, and one of the best in the NFL right now. Oh yah isolate Daniels on him, great idea.. not..

He's put Matt in that position, Matt made a HORRIBLE play, but if you have to tell a 8 year starter to throw the ball in the dirt on that play in that situation then you need a new starter.
 
Honestly, I'd like Kubes as an offensive coordinator. He just lacks the charisma and situational awareness of a head coach. Can't complain with his offense over the last few years (considering the QB)
 
We did move the ball well against arguably the leagues best Defense without our best offensive lineman...like I say, Kubiak is a good Offensive coordinator but not a good head coach (A head coach would have told Gary what to run on that critical play)
 
silvrhand said:
I'm sorry but Kubiak has to go now, his post game interview just sealed the deal for me. We all wondered if Kubiak trusted Matt, we know the answer now, he definitely doesn't trust his starting QB. Kubiak went Consveriak to start the 3rd quarter instead of just putting his foot on their throat, he tried to run the ball, then went all air Kubiak at the worst spot. Sherman was playing the right side of the field the entire game, way to go Kubiak attack their best CB, and one of the best in the NFL right now. Oh yah isolate Daniels on him, great idea.. not..

He's put Matt in that position, Matt made a HORRIBLE play, but if you have to tell a 8 year starter to throw the ball in the dirt on that play in that situation then you need a new starter.
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right, but see this is where i disagree with you. Josh Innes (as horrible as he is) was saying all last week that he doesn't think Kubiak trusts schaub...I find that hard to believe honestly. i think he trust Schaub just fine...maybe more than he should to be honest.

I mean we came out slinging it all over the place on the best secondary in the league....a number of those passes went towards the best cb in the league....the play call on the pick 6 also doesn't strike me as him not trusting his qb...b/c if that was the case he would've just ran it there. You don't do those things if you don't trust your qb to make plays for you.

Kubiak needs to go imo largely b/c of his misplaced loyalties with Marciano & Schaub and other coaches (Smith & Bush as DC's anyone?). but also b/c this team has continued to not play a full 60 minutes over the years. We're simply Jeckyl & Hyde with him. That's all on the HC & is inexcusable. How can we look like the best team in the league for a half & then completely wet the bed the next? Reminds me of the Norv Turner led Chargers.
 
I liken Kubiak to a basketball coach that hasn't adapted to the fact that the 3 point shot has changed the game and made quick comebacks easier. You can't just run a 4 corners offense once you have a lead and expect to win every game.

I looked back over last season's games and saw that only 3 times in games that we won did we put up over 20 points in a 2nd half. 2 of those were the OT games where we had to come from behind to win and the 3rd was against the Titans and 14 of those points were because of INT returns for TDs. In the majority of the other games we had a good halftime lead and then went conservative to hold on to the win. In some (Miami, Jags, Balt, 2nd Ten game) that worked well and we won comfortably. Most of the rest were close games that we held on to win.

The NFL is a passing league now. Leads are as comfortable as they used to be. Atlanta was down 17 halfway through the 4th against NE and made it close and had a chance to tie. The hurry-up passing offense can be brutal on defenses. In theory the run the ball and use up valuable clock approach is great. When the offense executes correctly or the defense isn't geared up to stop it. It's a bigger strain on your own D if you can't keep a drive sustained and you force them to keep going out there against a hurry up.

Kubiak goes conservative at the wrong times. Usually too early. Yeah, we got a field goal at the end the 1st half, but it was because Carroll called the TOs and we had more time. If Carroll hadn't called the timeouts Kubiak would have let the half run out as is. It didn't matter that we had 3 of our own. At the end of the game when we should have been running the ball he calls for a play that everyone in the league knows to watch for. I realize Tate fumbled, but if you let him run the ball in that situation I think he gets a first down and we win the game.

We will win more games than we lose because we play some bad teams and we will win those. We also will beat a good team because everything goes our way. It should have happened yesterday, but we Kubiaked ourselves. In the long run, this team led by Gary Kubiak isn't a Super Bowl caliber team. We have the horses to get it done, but not the right guy leading the charge.
 
Kubiak's leash should have ran out the year the Texans went 6-10 after a 9-7 season.

yet 2nd year coaches are going to the Super Bowl and our 8 year coach is still "learning" how to be a HC....
 
After hearing Kubiak's comments today I know he needs to fired. He's not changing anything at all just practice and do the same crap hoping the mistakes aren't made. Schaub will choke and we will continue to lose and it doesn't matter if we had 20 more pro bowlers on this team.
 
So Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub to make decisions like that and/or he is arrogant enough to believe his system can overcome anything.

Think we need to dredge up the Fire Kubiak thread. Jeez.
 
Regardless of whether or not Kubiak's system allows Matt to audible out of the play, Matt made the worst decision possible. Take the Sack or throw the ball away. What is the point of having a "Game manager QB" if the QB doesn't know how to manage correctly?
 
utahmark said:
One guy doesn't make one mistake and cost us 6 points with three minutes left and we probably win the game against what most consider the best team in the league. Everyone would be talking about Superbowl. Now we are no better than 8 and 8. Gotta Love it:wadepalm:
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You "HAVE" been watching Houston Texans football, haven't you? How about you take the blinders off and try to look past a single game history. Go backwards 10 games. what do you see? 4 and 6 still feel like dancing? :bender:

You have to go back to the Thanksgiving Day game when the TExans were "Gifted" a win to be able to claim .500

Talking about Superbowl? I think some are well justified to talk Toiletbowl. The season has to play out, but recent history would indicate Superbowl is a laughable expectation.
 
Yesterday said:
Honestly, I'd like Kubes as an offensive coordinator. He just lacks the charisma and situational awareness of a head coach. Can't complain with his offense over the last few years (considering the QB)
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The last few years have somewhat of a consistent picture. Great opening drives, making opposing teams look almost outclassed, only to then struggle for a large chunk of the rest of the game and have to figure out how to make a game of it in the final minutes. Plenty of exceptions to this picture over a long stretch of games, but in general terms, the body of work rules in support of this observation. Now, is this a product of ineffective in-game adjustments? Poor conditioning? Playing not to lose play calling?

Mostly though, Kubiak FAILS to acknowledge the need for improvement at the most critical position on the team. It's been SO long since I've compared the statistics between Sage Rosenfels as a Texan and Matt Schaub, I forget the numbers, but they were WAY TOO SIMILAR.

If we were so quick to run Sage out of town over 1 play, I'm astounded by how many plays Schaub gets to stockpile.

Get rid of the gimp GARY!
 
Trail.Blazr said:
Great opening drives, making opposing teams look almost outclassed, only to then struggle for a large chunk of the rest of the game and have to figure out how to make a game of it in the final minutes. Plenty of exceptions to this picture over a long stretch of games, but in general terms, the body of work rules in support of this observation. Now, is this a product of ineffective in-game adjustments? Poor conditioning? Playing not to lose play calling?
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& that's what we're waiting for. Them to put it all together at the right time for an extended period of time.
 
Norg said:
I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built
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A new QB and HC would not mean that Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, or any of the real "stars" on our offense would have to go. That's just crazy talk right there. The WR's are fine and AJ and Nuk start in just about any system you care to implement. Foster is a franchise back and will produce in just about any system you care to implement. Duane Brown, arguably the sole "gem" on our OL is a franchise LT and he's going to play in whatever we do. Our OL is young but we've got some talent in there. OD, Graham, and Griffin are not tied to this system either. If it's just a new HC then Schaub will suck just as much in any other coaches system so no need to go looking for a QB to suck in the new offense. Matt got that covered.
 
Marciano is a problem & needs to go.

I do not think Kubiak is the problem. He makes mistakes, but they all do.

Schaub I'm on the fence about, although there's no doubt he's been boneheaded lately, & I think it's time to start looking elsewhere: Keenum (next year....or MAYBE sooner...), draft, FA, whatever.

Kubiak might not want to let Schaub go or bench him (understatement of the week), & some may think that's reason to let HIM go, but he didn't want to let DC Richard Smith go either, & that worked out fine. McNair just has to put his foot down at some point.

I wonder if Kubiak needs to, ironically, say something to McNair about Marciano???
 
HJam72 said:
Marciano is a problem & needs to go.

I wonder if Kubiak needs to, ironically, say something to McNair about Marciano???
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Personally, I don't believe that firing a person is or should be the only recourse when someone isn't performing to standards. As a head coach my job is to make sure my coordinators are getting the most out of their position coaches who in turn should be getting the most out of their players.

I would think Marciano would be more like a coordinator as he most likely reports directly to the head coach. Like the Tandon doss return. When Kubiak was asked about the breakdown in coverage he replied there was no breakdown in coverage. We had 4 unblocked players there to make the play. They didn't, Tandon Doss did & you know the rest.

Still Marciano's fault, not saying any different, but the problem (in that instance) is different from the perceived problem. Last year, in addition to poor play, there was also a lot of penalties so even if we did cover a kick well, or get a decent return, the penalty negated it. This year I'm seeing a lot less penalties. Different penalties if nothing else.

Having said that, I also think the Texans are slow to remove a person that needs to be removed. This isn't a new problem. Last year wasn't the first year this was a problem.

Just like our defense, Kubiak had his guy & he did not deliver the product we needed. Instead of firing him, he brought in Frank Bush. Performance didn't improve he ended up firing Smith anyway. If he thought replacing Smith was the best thing for the team, he should have done it when he brought Bush in. All he did was prolonged the inevitable.

Joe's assistant is probably Joe's replacement. He probably should have been brought in last year, they're probably prolonging the inevitable.
 
To expand on this, I think there are two very definite time periods that we are talking about here, intertwined so as to look like one long time period.

How long should it take to turn around a losing club? 4 years? 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.. only one losing season.

How long should it take to turn a winning club into a Super Bowl contender? 4 years? 3 years? 2010, 2011 <--contender-->, 2012 <--paper tiger-->, 2013 <--not looking good so far-->

I don't know if you can say we should win a super bowl within a certain time period. It's such a long shot to begin with. At the same time, if we don't get to the AFC Championship game this year, I won't argue that we were never a Super Bowl contender to begin with.
 
I think the only way Kubiak gets yanked is if the team misses the playoffs. McNair said as much 2 seasons ago when we signed Joseph and Manning.

I wonder if that does happen if Rick Smith would be a casualty of that as well. Overall I think he has done a good job of getting players into our system.
 
hradhak said:
I think the only way Kubiak gets yanked is if the team misses the playoffs. McNair said as much 2 seasons ago when we signed Joseph and Manning.

I wonder if that does happen if Rick Smith would be a casualty of that as well. Overall I think he has done a good job of getting players into our system.
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If 6-10 was not enough to get fired, what makes you think missing the playoffs is?
 
Pantherstang84 said:
If 6-10 was not enough to get fired, what makes you think missing the playoffs is?
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Only that McNair said he would fire Kubes if they didn't go "deep in the playoffs". Not sure that he will follow through on that promise, but he has said it on tape now, so we have something to hold him on.
 
No way he goes in the middle of the season, I do think this is looking like his last year.

Texans can come back, it's only three games. Take it one game at a time and maybe they can hit a 6 game win streak or something but they need to finish the seasons strong for him to keep his job.

Otherwise they won't even make it to the playoffs, and I'd be surprised if even Bob keeps Kubiak after that.
 
We go 7-9 this year. McNair stands behind Kubes yet again.

Those 2 division titles that we won by default have given him a ton of equity that he doesn't deserve.
 
fiasco west said:
No way he goes in the middle of the season, I do think this is looking like his last year.

Texans can come back, it's only three games. Take it one game at a time and maybe they can hit a 6 game win streak or something but they need to finish the seasons strong for him to keep his job.

Otherwise they won't even make it to the playoffs, and I'd be surprised if even Bob keeps Kubiak after that.
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yep, only possibly at end of season. and even then its a big if.
 
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