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Texans to trade and cut players for a better GM option (see article)

Mangler said:
Is he from the Belichick tree?
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I don't know but I don't think so. He has been upper management when good things occurred that are being attributed to him but I never followed Colts except their records compared to Texans.
 
Mr teX said:
still
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Mr teX said:
All NFL franchises have that “Morality horse crap”. Talented guys are passed on, traded and drafted much lower than their talent suggests they should be every year b/c of that same mentality by all franchises. it’s not exclusive to the McNair and the Texans.

2nd, I don’t think you can proclaim that the offense “needed” Nuk. What we’re seeing on offense was likely gonna be the same with or without him and I don’t think his presence changes the results on offense or in the win column for us. We were likely losing those 1st 3 games with or without him b/c of this defense....probably still lose that Minny game as well for the same reason. At the end of the day, he’s just 1 guy ......1 guy that don’t play defense to boot. He’s really really good, but still just 1 guy .....apart from that, he hadn’t seem to make all that big of a difference for us on offense in the prior years he was here under 2 different regimes.

Also let’s not kid ourselves and act like we were leaps and bounds better with him on offense than we are now at this very moment. Fact is, since BoB’s been out of the pic, Watson and by extension the offense have looked at least as good as it did in DW4’s rookie year in those 1st 7 games...and we’re doing it without him now.
Apart from that what we know is Nuk was a team player.... ....as long as he was being paid according to his perceived value...the minute the terms of his deal shifted out of his favor, he started bitching. Does it mean you trade him for veritable peanuts, no. But I don’t think you can assume that he would’ve continued to be a team player if his contract wasn’t renegotiated. As has been said several times, Duane Brown was a great team guy until he wasn’t and started holding out in the regular season for a new deal.

You are correct all pro players want more money. it doesn’t mean that you trade good players away for peanuts, but it doesn’t mean you entertain their requests b/c they’re a great player either. Especially when you’re in the midst of trying to make sure you’ve got enough money to extend 2 of your more important, franchise defining players.

And just quite Frankly, as good as Nuk is, he can be replaced and be replaced rather EASILY.
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Man I was right there with you until your last sentence. We cannot trade for a Hopkins nor get one in draft unless we trade most of our draft into round two and even then I doubt it. That will not be easy even if it is possible. I'm certain you will tell us how?
 
steelbtexan said:
I've been saying for yrs the Texans will never win anything until the McNair's change their philosophy. I was hoping this philosophy would change when Bob McNair died. Obviously the philosophy hasn't changed. In fact it may have gotten worse.

It took Hopkins getting traded for some to realize this has been what I've been talking about since 2010. I'm guessing Hopkins was a Janice call.
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Remember me saying long time ago it was Mrs. McNair? Obrien took the hit for that but setting that aside there was enough to fire him before 2020 I was willing to wait and see but what I saw wasn't worth the wait but he's gone. I'm looking forward to next nine holes..er games plus new HC and GM and then the draft. Lol Watt may be worth a trade next spring.
 
badboy said:
Remember me saying long time ago it was Mrs. McNair? Obrien took the hit for that but setting that aside there was enough to fire him before 2020 I was willing to wait and see but what I saw wasn't worth the wait but he's gone. I'm looking forward to next nine holes..er games plus new HC and GM and then the draft. Lol Watt may be worth a trade next spring.
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The trade ship has already passed.

With no high picks and very few picks to use to trade up in the draft and not getting cap rollover this team is screwed for the foreseeable future.
 
steelbtexan said:
The trade ship has already passed.

With no high picks and very few picks to use to trade up in the draft and not getting cap rollover this team is screwed for the foreseeable future.
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The trade ship passes by again when the trade period opens again in 2021 before the next draft. IIRC Fuller and Stills are only two major players leaving as FA..so possibilities will be there then although rollover cap space opportunities will be gone.
 
steelbtexan said:
The trade ship has already passed.

With no high picks and very few picks to use to trade up in the draft and not getting cap rollover this team is screwed for the foreseeable future.
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The Texans are screwed for 2021. Cap should have a decent return by 2022. Texans wll be dumping contracts this off-season in order to be cap compliant for 2021. There might be a few COMP Picks mixed in there but I'm not counting on them. Watson's big money hits in 2022 but the Texans should look much different from a money standpoint with a chance that 2023 will reduce their roster cap hit again with another influx of a new draft class.

Looks like Cal is ok with letting the new GM sort out this OB mess.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The Texans are screwed for 2021. Cap should have a decent return by 2022. Texans wll be dumping contracts this off-season in order to be cap compliant for 2021. There might be a few COMP Picks mixed in there but I'm not counting on them. Watson's big money hits in 2022 but the Texans should look much different from a money standpoint with a chance that 2023 will reduce their roster cap hit again with another influx of a new draft class.

Looks like Cal is ok with letting the new GM sort out this OB mess.
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They wont be getting any cap rollover or a few extra picks to help with draft day trades. Dumbazzez
 
steelbtexan said:
They wont be getting any cap rollover or a few extra picks to help with draft day trades. Dumbazzez
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Simple....did you really want Cal and Easterby making the trade deadline deals? The new GM may be able to renegotiate some of the desireable players contracts, cut some and let others walk. Cal should've had a real football mind in the building as a consultant to navigate the team through player evaluation and the trade deadline.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Simple....did you really want Cal and Easterby making the trade deadline deals? The new GM may be able to renegotiate some of the desireable players contracts, cut some and let others walk. Cal should've had a real football mind in the building as a consultant to navigate the team through player evaluation and the trade deadline.
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O’Brien made sure there was no competent football guy left to question his moves. So after he was axed, no competent football guy left in the organization.

There was no move the Texans could have made that would have really moved the needle on a rebuild. No real reasons for hand wringing about a draft choice lost.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Simple....did you really want Cal and Easterby making the trade deadline deals? The new GM may be able to renegotiate some of the desireable players contracts, cut some and let others walk. Cal should've had a real football mind in the building as a consultant to navigate the team through player evaluation and the trade deadline.
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Yes because now they aren't going to get the cap savings they could've gotten. The cap rollover is more important than value you get in trade. Anything you get of value in trade is a bonus. I really dont care who makes the trades and if the would've gotten a 4th or better I would've been happy. Instead they got nothing. Rumor has it they were offered a 4th and a 5th. That's fair value. IMHO those could've turned the 3rd into a 2nd. Again now they get absolutely nothing. Why, because DW4/JJ didn't want anybody to be traded. What kind of winning org makes decisions like this?
 
steelbtexan said:
Rumor has it they were offered a 4th and a 5th. That's fair value.
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Was that rumored for Fuller alone? I wonder if Watt's name was thrown out there as well? Watt and Fuller to the Pack for a what, a 2nd and 4th, 3rd and 4th? Maybe Watt doesn't want to be traded, who knows. Just hard to believe these guys thought they would get a 2nd for Fuller.
 
austins23 said:
Was that rumored for Fuller alone? I wonder if Watt's name was thrown out there as well? Watt and Fuller to the Pack for a what, a 2nd and 4th, 3rd and 4th? Maybe Watt doesn't want to be traded, who knows. Just hard to believe these guys thought they would get a 2nd for Fuller.
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If was rumored a 4th and a 5th for WFV.
 
badboy said:
The trade ship passes by again when the trade period opens again in 2021 before the next draft. IIRC Fuller and Stills are only two major players leaving as FA..so possibilities will be there then although rollover cap space opportunities will be gone.
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Exactly

This was why trades were necessary even if you had to take a little less in trade than you wanted too.
 
steelbtexan said:
The trade ship has already passed.

With no high picks and very few picks to use to trade up in the draft and not getting cap rollover this team is screwed for the foreseeable future.
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You were optimistic about our draft & cap situation just before the season started. What happened? I remember you saying there were players we could cut to create cap space (ie. David Johnson, Brandin Cooks). You mentioned we had the draft capital to move up to round 2 if needed.

But now, the team is screwed? Why the change in tone?
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes because now they aren't going to get the cap savings they could've gotten. The cap rollover is more important than value you get in trade. Anything you get of value in trade is a bonus. I really dont care who makes the trades and if the would've gotten a 4th or better I would've been happy. Instead they got nothing. Rumor has it they were offered a 4th and a 5th. That's fair value. IMHO those could've turned the 3rd into a 2nd. Again now they get absolutely nothing. Why, because DW4/JJ didn't want anybody to be traded. What kind of winning org makes decisions like this?
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With ya until that last sentence. We have absolutely zero proof that Watson and Watt made the call for the organization regarding their current personnel.

They might've stated that the team has a history of rebounding in the second half of the season and they have a favorable second half schedule and hey we're in the AFCS. Personally, I would have no idea how Watt could say that and keep a straight face at the same time and I'd be pretty sure Watson would have to excuse himself to avoid pissing his pants in front of everyone.
 
badboy said:
Man I was right there with you until your last sentence. We cannot trade for a Hopkins nor get one in draft unless we trade most of our draft into round two and even then I doubt it. That will not be easy even if it is possible. I'm certain you will tell us how?
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It doesn’t have to happen next year and that’s not what I was getting at when I made the statement. Aside from that, The mistake you make is assuming that the replacement has to be as good as Nuk and/or that the replacement production wise has to be just 1 guy. There are more ways to skin a cat.

We’ve seen lots of explosive offenses over the years that have had WR groups with various combinations of skill levels to get the job done. Minny with Thielen and Diggs....The Rams with Woods and Kupp...Now...Seattle with Metcalf and Lockett. Not a single 1st rounder in those pairings ..2 late 2nd rounders..the rest were late round draft picks; only 1 all pro...and he was all pro as returner not as a WR.

Furthermore WR’s are a little easier to lure away in FA than most skill position groups b/c good #2’s are much more plentiful.

you just don’t necessarily need an all pro at the position to be a good passing offense.
 
Mr teX said:
It doesn’t have to happen next year and that’s not what I was getting at when I made the statement. Aside from that, The mistake you make is assuming that the replacement has to be as good as Nuk and/or that the replacement production wise has to be just 1 guy. There are more ways to skin a cat.

We’ve seen lots of explosive offenses over the years that have had WR groups with various combinations of skill levels to get the job done. Minny with Thielen and Diggs....The Rams with Woods and Kupp...Now...Seattle with Metcalf and Lockett. Not a single 1st rounder in those pairings ..2 late 2nd rounders..the rest were late round draft picks; only 1 all pro...and he was all pro as returner not as a WR.

Furthermore WR’s are a little easier to lure away in FA than most skill position groups b/c good #2’s are much more plentiful.

you just don’t necessarily need an all pro at the position to be a good passing offense.
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You don't need an all-pro at any position to be a successful team. I have no problems with trading Nuk, it's just what we got back in return was dumb. I'm ok with trading anyone on the team, as long as the deal makes sense. The Nuk deal did not make sense.
 
Lucky said:
O’Brien made sure there was no competent football guy left to question his moves. So after he was axed, no competent football guy left in the organization.

There was no move the Texans could have made that would have really moved the needle on a rebuild. No real reasons for hand wringing about a draft choice lost.
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Texans delimma coming up to the trade deadline. Trade players for something....it may not be much but it would beat a sharp stick to the eye. Now we know no trades were made so I'd like to know what the teams forecast is for the second half of the season that justified holding onto players they cannot afford.

The 2021 off-season will dictate some reality as in trimming the fat....only now teams will just wait for the Texans to cut players out of necessity versus even giving up a late round pick for them to avoid ny type of bidding war.

Why is it that this team always finds themselves over the proverbial barrel, their pants down, and Dueling Banjo's blaring in the background?

The team would need quite a few players to willfully step forward and restructure their contracts to even make the teams cap situation in 2021 viable. I think the Texans are going to have to land an amazing GM and HC package that blows the players minds to get them on board with reducing their individual impacts on the cap. How many do we honestly see doing that?
 
dream_team said:
You were optimistic about our draft & cap situation just before the season started. What happened? I remember you saying there were players we could cut to create cap space (ie. David Johnson, Brandin Cooks). You mentioned we had the draft capital to move up to round 2 if needed.

But now, the team is screwed? Why the change in tone?
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Exactly and they can still do this.

But since they aren't going to be making the playoffs, they needed to maximize their position. To do this they needed to move some players to maximize their cap position for the new regime. It didn't happen.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes because now they aren't going to get the cap savings they could've gotten. The cap rollover is more important than value you get in trade. Anything you get of value in trade is a bonus. I really dont care who makes the trades and if the would've gotten a 4th or better I would've been happy. Instead they got nothing. Rumor has it they were offered a 4th and a 5th. That's fair value. IMHO those could've turned the 3rd into a 2nd. Again now they get absolutely nothing. Why, because DW4/JJ didn't want anybody to be traded. What kind of winning org makes decisions like this?
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If Watt and Watson (sounds like a law firm) has as much clout as you claim, wouldn't Hopkins still be on the team? Why do I get the impression that you seem to want to setup players to take the blame for whatever happens next with this franchise? Easterby might have backstabbed O'Brien. He is the acting GM and is on the hiring committee. Yet, you barely mention Easterby when blaming Watt and/or Watson for the direction of this team.
 
dream_team said:
You don't need an all-pro at any position to be a successful team. I have no problems with trading Nuk, it's just what we got back in return was dumb. I'm ok with trading anyone on the team, as long as the deal makes sense. The Nuk deal did not make sense.
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but the Nuk deal is done...it’s over. Yes it was lopsided, yes you hate to lose a talent like Nuk, but his presence on this current machination of the team wasn’t dramatically changing the outcome of our offense or this season. And it’s just not a necessity to have a player of his caliber at the position. People just need to move on and get over it.
 
Mr teX said:
but the Nuk deal is done...it’s over. Yes it was lopsided, yes you hate to lose a talent like Nuk, but his presence on this current machination of the team wasn’t dramatically changing the outcome of our offense or this season. And it’s just not a necessity to have a player of his caliber at the position. People just need to move on and get over it.
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Isn't bickering about the past all we do on here? lol

Rick Smith is gone, Deshaun Watson is our QB, BOB is gone, no trades were done... move on and get over it.
 
austins23 said:
Was that rumored for Fuller alone? I wonder if Watt's name was thrown out there as well? Watt and Fuller to the Pack for a what, a 2nd and 4th, 3rd and 4th? Maybe Watt doesn't want to be traded, who knows. Just hard to believe these guys thought they would get a 2nd for Fuller.
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Just further proof that no one in that building has the knowledge to assess value. They gave a 2nd for Cooks, so it only makes sense they could easily get a 2nd for Fuller, right? The Texans are like that one guy in your fantasy league just sending out these whack proposals. He just wants one player, my stud RB, but I get THREE mediocre players in return. 3 for 1 baby! Then he gets mad that you don't have the courtesy to at least decline the offer.
 
Earl34 said:
If Watt and Watson (sounds like a law firm) has as much clout as you claim, wouldn't Hopkins still be on the team? Why do I get the impression that you seem to want to setup players to take the blame for whatever happens next with this franchise? Easterby might have backstabbed O'Brien. He is the acting GM and is on the hiring committee. Yet, you barely mention Easterby when blaming Watt and/or Watson for the direction of this team.
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I promised not to talk about why Hopkins isn't on the team. But if DW4/Watt wanted Hopkins on the team and went to ownership and said so he would still be on the team.

Easterby most likely wont be here next yr and I think Cal wanted to give the new regime a chance to change the direction of the team how they see fit and wouldn't let Easterby make trades. Or they didn't make trades because DW4/Watt didn't want the org to make trades.

Frankly I think this is another mistake Cal/Easterby made that will continue to haunt this franchise for the next 4-5 yrs. You dont think DW4 in particular has this kind of pull? After all he's on the search committee that will be hiring the next GM/HC.

What do you want me to say about Easterby, he wasn't the GM/HC?
 
Mr teX said:
It doesn’t have to happen next year and that’s not what I was getting at when I made the statement. Aside from that, The mistake you make is assuming that the replacement has to be as good as Nuk and/or that the replacement production wise has to be just 1 guy. There are more ways to skin a cat.

We’ve seen lots of explosive offenses over the years that have had WR groups with various combinations of skill levels to get the job done. Minny with Thielen and Diggs....The Rams with Woods and Kupp...Now...Seattle with Metcalf and Lockett. Not a single 1st rounder in those pairings ..2 late 2nd rounders..the rest were late round draft picks; only 1 all pro...and he was all pro as returner not as a WR.

Furthermore WR’s are a little easier to lure away in FA than most skill position groups b/c good #2’s are much more plentiful.

you just don’t necessarily need an all pro at the position to be a good passing offense.
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I thought you were saying we could find a Hopkins type WR next draft. So sure in the future we can draft one or 2-3 who might equal DeAndre's production.

{Icon for Texans frantically rubbing a lamp hoping genie pops up. Instead 3 wishes we would probably get 3 low comp picks.}.
 
dream_team said:
Well, you're a bit late to the ballgame. All offseason, people were saying the future of this team was screwed. BOB was using draft picks and over paying people for little gain now. Most saw the writing on the wall then.
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If you're talking about the Tunsil trade I still dont have a problem with it.

If you're talking about the Hopkins trade I was for keeping him for atleast another yr.

If you're talking about the Cunningham/Mercilus signings then I totally agree. That was idiocracy.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans delimma coming up to the trade deadline. Trade players for something....it may not be much but it would beat a sharp stick to the eye. Now we know no trades were made so I'd like to know what the teams forecast is for the second half of the season that justified holding onto players they cannot afford.

The 2021 off-season will dictate some reality as in trimming the fat....only now teams will just wait for the Texans to cut players out of necessity versus even giving up a late round pick for them to avoid ny type of bidding war.

Why is it that this team always finds themselves over the proverbial barrel, their pants down, and Dueling Banjo's blaring in the background?

The team would need quite a few players to willfully step forward and restructure their contracts to even make the teams cap situation in 2021 viable. I think the Texans are going to have to land an amazing GM and HC package that blows the players minds to get them on board with reducing their individual impacts on the cap. How many do we honestly see doing that?
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Are Other teams also in this conundrum? From other posters it seems there will be a Noah flood of quality players on the market begging to take whatever crumb teams offer. Let the good times roll!
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steelbtexan said:
If you're talking about the Tunsil trade I still dont have a problem with it.

If you're talking about the Hopkins trade I was for keeping him for atleast another yr.

If you're talking about the Cunningham/Mercilus signings then I totally agree. That was idiocracy.
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You're forgetting overpaying for Nick Martin, Brandon Dunn, Eric Murray, Randall Cobb. Trading for high priced players in David Johnson & Brandon Cooks. Using high picks to acquire Duke Johnson & Gareon Conley.

I won't even get to our underachieving draft picks the last two seasons.
 
steelbtexan said:
Exactly

This was why trades were necessary even if you had to take a little less in trade than you wanted too.
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Texans think they still have shot at new playoff with more teams. 4th and 5th for Fuller plus paying part of his salary wasn't on their go list.
 
dream_team said:
You're forgetting overpaying for Nick Martin, Brandon Dunn, Eric Murray, Randall Cobb. Trading for high priced players in David Johnson & Brandon Cooks. Using high picks to acquire Duke Johnson & Gareon Conley.

I won't even get to our underachieving draft picks the last two seasons.
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Cooks wasn't a bad contract, they can renegotiate his contract this off-season and lower his cap hit by giving him more guaranteed money.

I don't consider 3rd Rd picks for guys like Conley to be overpaying. I did think they slightly overpaid for Duke. But I understood the move at the time.

Agreed the other guys were. bad contracts. Good news is they can get out from many of the bad contracts you listed without to bad of a cap hit. I wish they could have traded some of those guys for the cap rollover. Oh well water under the bridge.
 
badboy said:
Texans think they still have shot at new playoff with more teams. 4th and 5th for Fuller plus paying part of his salary wasn't on their go list.
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They are fooling themselves

Every dollar saved counts. a 2.5 mil cap rollover would have been sweet even if the Texans had to pay 5 mil of WFV's salary.
 
Earl34 said:
If Watt and Watson (sounds like a law firm) has as much clout as you claim, wouldn't Hopkins still be on the team? Why do I get the impression that you seem to want to setup players to take the blame for whatever happens next with this franchise? Easterby might have backstabbed O'Brien. He is the acting GM and is on the hiring committee. Yet, you barely mention Easterby when blaming Watt and/or Watson for the direction of this team.
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Or Easterby may not have backstabbed Obrien. Not everything is subterfuge. I don't think Bill needed any help getting removed from the New Camelot.
 
steelbtexan said:
Cooks wasn't a bad contract, they can renegotiate his contract this off-season and lower his cap hit by giving him more guaranteed money.

I don't consider 3rd Rd picks for guys like Conley to be overpaying. I did think they slightly overpaid for Duke. But I understood the move at the time.

Agreed the other guys were. bad contracts. Good news is they can get out from many of the bad contracts you listed without to bad of a cap hit. I wish they could have traded some of those guys for the cap rollover. Oh well water under the bridge.
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I'm looking at JJs deal this year as almost half over and he has new opportunity after the bye to earn the rest of his money. Please JJ please
 
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