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Texans to trade and cut players for a better GM option (see article)

maverick512000 said:
Did he though? There is an old saying in football of playing the money. Savage was a hot mess to say the least and I think if OB had not played Watson over Savage he would have been told by McNair to play him or he’d hire a HC who would.

As far as not extending him again you say you don’t take speculation as proof yet you are speculating that the order didn’t come from Cal to sign him no matter the price.

Fact is all we can do on here is speculate 99% of the time so if you are looking for rock solid proof then you won’t find it. Even reports and insider information require us to trust the source or the one reporting it.
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I'm fine with speculation. Was just checking if there's any meat to this, since the "BOB didn't want Watson" mantra is repeated often around here.

BOB at some point has benched every QB that played on the Texans. He even benched the high priced FA in Brock. So yah, BOB could have sat Watson his rookie year if he truly didn't want him.
 
dream_team said:
I'm fine with speculation. Was just checking if there's any meat to this, since the "BOB didn't want Watson" mantra is repeated often around here.

BOB at some point has benched every QB that played on the Texans. He even benched the high priced FA in Brock. So yah, BOB could have sat Watson his rookie year if he truly didn't want him.
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He did sit Watson, his plan was to play Savage and then Savage was so bad there were about to be riots. He played Watson and Aston was on fire that year until he got hurt so who’s to say how the season would have gone.

You can’t compare benching Brock because Brock was playing terrible and was benched for performance reasons. Issues Watson didn’t have before we got hurt and then in all the years after even at his worst Watson was still miles ahead of his number 2.

Let’s be clear when I say OB didn’t want Watson I don’t think it was a case of he didn’t like him or even think he wasn’t good. I think he thought Mahomes was better and would better fit the system. Lots of coaches have ended up with players they “didn’t want” and have even won with them.

Old NFL rumor is that BB didn’t “want” Brady and drafted him to shut up one of his scouts that wouldn’t stop talking about him. BB figured a 6th was a throw away pick anyway so no reason not to draft him and then keep him around to get coffee or something.

Last part was a joke by the way.
 
maverick512000 said:
He did sit Watson, his plan was to play Savage and then Savage was so bad there were about to be riots. He played Watson and Aston was on fire that year until he got hurt so who’s to say how the season would have gone.

You can’t compare benching Brock because Brock was playing terrible and was benched for performance reasons. Issues Watson didn’t have before we got hurt and then in all the years after even at his worst Watson was still miles ahead of his number 2.

Let’s be clear when I say OB didn’t want Watson I don’t think it was a case of he didn’t like him or even think he wasn’t good. I think he thought Mahomes was better and would better fit the system. Lots of coaches have ended up with players they “didn’t want” and have even won with them.

Old NFL rumor is that BB didn’t “want” Brady and drafted him to shut up one of his scouts that wouldn’t stop talking about him. BB figured a 6th was a throw away pick anyway so no reason not to draft him and then keep him around to get coffee or something.

Last part was a joke by the way.
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How does Mahomes fit BOB's system better?
(If he has a system, that is.)

They don't even have a playbook at Tech.
And the EP is difficult to learn at the beginning.
 
En1gma57 said:
Watson was not too high on most boards. Afterall, this is word for word the scouting report on Watson from the Bull Pen, I have it in my phone still. Directly from Athlon draft guide. And to be honest...I see the same thing now as was written then.

Pros:
Decent but not amazing arm strength
Ability to scramble and buy time
Hits targets on intermediate routes in stride
Throws well on the run
Average height
Team Player

Cons:
Injury history
Needs to add size
Rolling left he is not accurate
Questionable ability to read a D fooled by S's
A turn over machine when under pressure
Recivers bailed him out of INTs
Poor descion making
Deep ball floats due to lack of arm strength

Summary
Watson needs a team that can develop him. He has won at every level, yet never been the reason. Team player. Might be unable to get use to NFL speeds and D's. Watson is similar to a Michael Vick or Randal Cunningham with less arm strength and football IQ. Should be an early 2nd round pick for a team that needs a good QB 2 and time to see if he can develop or if he has reached his potential.
He can also be an over-agressive passer. The best example of that is Clemson's drive to end the half against Oklahoma in the playoffs. The Tigers won the game, so everyone forgot about the sequence, but Watson threw an interception in the end zone, in scoring territory, when the team was down one point with a timeout and 21 seconds on the clock at the time of the ball being snapped.
The last note that Watson left off on was the national championship game against the Alabama Crimson Tide, possibly his best game to date at Clemson. When digging deeper into his film and injury history, though, there are blemishes that most seem to gloss over.

During his senior year in high school, Watson sprained his MCL, which meant he had to skip the Under Armour All-American week. As a true freshman, Watson had surgery on his hand due to an injury against South Carolina, sustained an LCL injury and bone bruise against Georgia Tech and tore his ACL in practice. That all happened after he broke his collarbone leading up to his freshman year, which kept him out of Clemson's spring game.In 2015, he played injury-free with a knee brace on his left leg, but after five injuries in about a year, durability concerns should come up more often for a passer who is listed at 6'2" and 210 pounds by NFL Draft Scout. It wouldn't be surprising if he was compared to Griffin, who has had major knee injuries in the past, based on Watson's injury history and dual-threat ability.
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You really ought to stop getting draft reports from those guys you know.

Look at how they rated the QBs in that class.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
 
76Texan said:
Some report has Fuller to the Packers.
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Man, I'd love to throw Duke Johnson into the deal and receive a sick (C-19) AJ Dillon in return. GB could potentially use Duke down the stretch since they'll probably lose Dillon for the next 2 games.

2021 Texans could push to sign Leonard Fournette as an UFA and I think between Fournette and Dillon, Texans backfield issues could be solved for the next few seasons. Fournette contract should be about the same as what he got from TB this season with performance bonuses built in over 2 years. 2 years @ 4M guaranteed + incentives/bonuses.
 
Corrosion said:
Obviously not .... at least this year.

I could see the new GM / HC drafting a QB in year two or three .... but year one they are gonna roll with Watson and see which direction the arrow is pointing.
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Wouldn't it be interesting if Trevor and Justin Fields returned to school and not enter draft until 2022? No matter where Houston were to choose, it would be like the ultimate gotcha to whichever team ends up 1.1.
 
badboy said:
Wouldn't it be interesting if Trevor and Justin Fields returned to school and not enter draft until 2022? No matter where Houston were to choose, it would be like the ultimate gotcha to whichever team ends up 1.1.
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With Trevor getting Covid and thus not able to play and Jets likely getting 1:1 there is a lot of talk that he might not declare next year. Think a lot of it might also depend on if Jets fire their HC, that guy makes OB look like a HoF coach. If I was Trevor unless I had a fear of injury I think I would sit out if it looked like I was New Jersey bound.
 
En1gma57 said:
That is not the only draft report that says that.
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yeah, what are the others?
I've read a lot of scouting reports that year, and I know they were all over the place. Bunch of people liked trubisky and/or kizer.
I don't think anybody had it right.
 
Few more hours. Time ticking away. I'm surprised whomever holding reins hasn't done anything. We may never know if no trade was a good decision. I guess that will gather as many posts as trading Watt would have.
 
Honestly, it makes the Texans front office look like a complete joke to the rest of the country. . .as well to many of us in H-town.

Demanding a 2nd for an injury prone player not signed to a long term deal, but taking peanuts for one of the best WRs in the game because he doesn't fit their moral profile, just friggin' goofy, at best.

And don't blather about money, because fans themselves have already debunked that false narrative.
 
dream_team said:
Probably not the popular decision around here, but I agree. The Patriots gave up a 2nd rounder for Mohammed Sanu! When it comes to trades, BOB can't be the only idiot out there.
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Not disagreeing or anything, but didn't the Pats/Belichik have an abundance of draft picks when that happened? A 2nd is too much for Sanu, but..... just thinking out loud.
 
Double Barrel said:
Honestly, it makes the Texans front office look like a complete joke to the rest of the country. . .as well to many of us in H-town.

Demanding a 2nd for an injury prone player not signed to a long term deal, but taking peanuts for one of the best WRs in the game because he doesn't fit their moral profile, just friggin' goofy, at best.

And don't blather about money, because fans themselves have already debunked that false narrative.
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well if we have F tag Fuller, I think it's 18M+ a year to do so and the texans must not feel confident enough to sign him to a long term deal
 
Double Barrel said:
Honestly, it makes the Texans front office look like a complete joke to the rest of the country. . .as well to many of us in H-town.

Demanding a 2nd for an injury prone player not signed to a long term deal, but taking peanuts for one of the best WRs in the game because he doesn't fit their moral profile, just friggin' goofy, at best.

And don't blather about money, because fans themselves have already debunked that false narrative.
Click to expand...

Debunked? Naw....at most its just an offshoot theory that fit what most people already wanted to believe. Both theories can be true at the same time though. Nuk got tired of BoB's ****.........& he also wanted a new deal before it was his turn.

........& for what its worth DB, these same fans were also blathering 2 years ago that we would rue the day we didn't resign or get a better package back for a certain injury prone "generational" DE/OLB too. They said we should've "demanded" a 2nd...or even a 1st rounder for him too.....A guy who, by the way wasn't signed to a long term deal either..The deal we actually got for him was also said to be a complete joke & while he had been on the field for all 16 his last 2 years, his injury history was much more significant & said to be "career-altering" by the resident MB doc...certainly much more worse than anything that has happened to WFV to this point in his career.

Funny how the perspective tends to switch up depending on how you fall.

Fans be wrong sometimes buddy....
 
zshawn10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1323694568836075521
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We done gave away an elite WR and I wouldn't say Fuller is elite but he is a starter having a decent season. As deadline passed I'm thinking a redo is on the horizon for Fuller and Watson seems to want him. Hard for me to imagine Fuller remaining healthy the rest of 2020 let alone going into the future. However, if he continues this season's productivity with a reasonable extension going forward that seems to be the way to go.
 
thunderkyss said:
A 4th & 5th in the 2021 draft is more value than a 2022 3rd compensatory pick. & he's a UFA at the end of the season.

I'd take a 4th & 5th quick fast & in a hurry. Unless they have a real plan to shed a bunch of contracts & extend him before the end of the league year.
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And you would be an IDIOT. 4th and 5th round picks are not even assured of making teams. You leave it to the new GM/HC to make player decisions.
 
zshawn10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1323722589131460611
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Texans front office is trying to be the cat that covers up O'Brien's poopy mess. :kitten:

Mr teX said:
Debunked? Naw....at most its just an offshoot theory that fit what most people already wanted to believe. Both theories can be true at the same time though. Nuk got tired of BoB's ****.........& he also wanted a new deal before it was his turn.

........& for what its worth DB, these same fans were also blathering 2 years ago that we would rue the day we didn't resign or get a better package back for a certain injury prone "generational" DE/OLB too. They said we should've "demanded" a 2nd...or even a 1st rounder for him too.....A guy who, by the way wasn't signed to a long term deal either..The deal we actually got for him was also said to be a complete joke & while he had been on the field for all 16 his last 2 years, his injury history was much more significant & said to be "career-altering" by the resident MB doc...certainly much more worse than anything that has happened to WFV to this point in his career.

Funny how the perspective tends to switch up depending on how you fall.

Fans be wrong sometimes buddy....
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The ENTIRE organization got tired of O'Brien's BS. Even Captain America JJ got in on it. You can't lay O'Brien's toxic crap at the feet of one player.

As far as the money angle, ALL pro players want more money. I don't see that as a reason to trade him away for little value and some overpaid has-beens. Nuk was under a deal. Cross that bridge when you get to it. Nothing has ever been verified to confirm that he would have held out.

And my comment about debunked pertains to the propaganda that the Texans could not afford him. I've seen the cap & salary guys break it down here and in the media. The actual facts and numbers do not support the Texans spin.

I don't care about Clowney. He and Nuk are not the same and are not equal. Nuk was always a team player and was clearly crucial to Watson and the offense. Clowney, not so much.

For the first time since 2003, the Texans do not have a great no. 1 WR. And it could take years to get another one.

What we pretty much know is that the McNairs traded Nuk away because of their morality horse crap that they use as a biased metric. This stupidity has infected this franchise for years, now to the point of hiring a glorified youth pastor as interim GM and part of the 'ad hoc hiring committee'.

You don't trade core players for garbage and try to justify it through a passive, compliant media as only a business decision, and expect an educated fan base to fall for that nonsensical mentality. That's why fans and national media see thorough this transparent stupidity, and why this owner and front office is and continues to be a laughing stock.

And they think they are fooling anyone with demands of draft capital for Fuller? The league knows better. They know this is a bush league front office.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
And you would be an IDIOT. 4th and 5th round picks are not even assured of making teams. You leave it to the new GM/HC to make player decisions.
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Only an IDIOT would think the new GM can get anything for Will Fuller after the trade deadline. He's an UFA when the season is over.

Had we traded him for a 2021 4th & 5th we could have traded them for a late 3rd/early 4th

But I would expect the new GM to do as he pleases with them. As it stands, the only thing he can do for Will Fuller now, is an exit interview.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
And you would be an IDIOT. 4th and 5th round picks are not even assured of making teams. You leave it to the new GM/HC to make player decisions.
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Uh..Fuller will not be on roster after 2020 season ends for anyone to do anything with. Unless extended or traded by 3p today and as far as I can find out he was not; he is gone as a free agent after season. Just a thought, before calling someone an idiot, you might want to verify you are not talking to the mirror.
 
Double Barrel said:
Texans front office is trying to be the cat that covers up O'Brien's poopy mess. :kitten:



The ENTIRE organization got tired of O'Brien's BS. Even Captain America JJ got in on it. You can't lay O'Brien's toxic crap at the feet of one player.

As far as the money angle, ALL pro players want more money. I don't see that as a reason to trade him away for little value and some overpaid has-beens. Nuk was under a deal. Cross that bridge when you get to it. Nothing has ever been verified to confirm that he would have held out.

And my comment about debunked pertains to the propaganda that the Texans could not afford him. I've seen the cap & salary guys break it down here and in the media. The actual facts and numbers do not support the Texans spin.

I don't care about Clowney. He and Nuk are not the same and are not equal. Nuk was always a team player and was clearly crucial to Watson and the offense. Clowney, not so much.

For the first time since 2003, the Texans do not have a great no. 1 WR. And it could take years to get another one.

What we pretty much know is that the McNairs traded Nuk away because of their morality horse crap that they use as a biased metric. This stupidity has infected this franchise for years, now to the point of hiring a glorified youth pastor as interim GM and part of the 'ad hoc hiring committee'.

You don't trade core players for garbage and try to justify it through a passive, compliant media as only a business decision, and expect an educated fan base to fall for that nonsensical mentality. That's why fans and national media see thorough this transparent stupidity, and why this owner and front office is and continues to be a laughing stock.

And they think they are fooling anyone with demands of draft capital for Fuller? The league knows better. They know this is a bush league front office.
Click to expand...


All NFL franchises have that “Morality horse crap”. Talented guys are passed on, traded and drafted much lower than their talent suggests they should be every year b/c of that same mentality by all franchises. it’s not exclusive to the McNair and the Texans.

2nd, I don’t think you can proclaim that the offense “needed” Nuk. What we’re seeing on offense was likely gonna be the same with or without him and I don’t think his presence changes the results on offense or in the win column for us. We were likely losing those 1st 3 games with or without him b/c of this defense....probably still lose that Minny game as well for the same reason. At the end of the day, he’s just 1 guy ......1 guy that don’t play defense to boot. He’s really really good, but still just 1 guy .....apart from that, he hadn’t seem to make all that big of a difference for us on offense in the prior years he was here under 2 different regimes.

Also let’s not kid ourselves and act like we were leaps and bounds better with him on offense than we are now at this very moment. Fact is, since BoB’s been out of the pic, Watson and by extension the offense have looked at least as good as it did in DW4’s rookie year in those 1st 7 games...and we’re doing it without him now.
Apart from that what we know is Nuk was a team player.... ....as long as he was being paid according to his perceived value...the minute the terms of his deal shifted out of his favor, he started bitching. Does it mean you trade him for veritable peanuts, no. But I don’t think you can assume that he would’ve continued to be a team player if his contract wasn’t renegotiated. As has been said several times, Duane Brown was a great team guy until he wasn’t and started holding out in the regular season for a new deal.

You are correct all pro players want more money. it doesn’t mean that you trade good players away for peanuts, but it doesn’t mean you entertain their requests b/c they’re a good player either. Especially when you’re in the midst of trying to make sure you’ve got enough money to extend 2 of your more important, franchise defining players.

And just quite Frankly, as good as Nuk is, he can be replaced and be replaced rather EASILY.
 
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Double Barrel said:
Texans front office is trying to be the cat that covers up O'Brien's poopy mess. :kitten:



The ENTIRE organization got tired of O'Brien's BS. Even Captain America JJ got in on it. You can't lay O'Brien's toxic crap at the feet of one player.

As far as the money angle, ALL pro players want more money. I don't see that as a reason to trade him away for little value and some overpaid has-beens. Nuk was under a deal. Cross that bridge when you get to it. Nothing has ever been verified to confirm that he would have held out.

And my comment about debunked pertains to the propaganda that the Texans could not afford him. I've seen the cap & salary guys break it down here and in the media. The actual facts and numbers do not support the Texans spin.

I don't care about Clowney. He and Nuk are not the same and are not equal. Nuk was always a team player and was clearly crucial to Watson and the offense. Clowney, not so much.

For the first time since 2003, the Texans do not have a great no. 1 WR. And it could take years to get another one.

What we pretty much know is that the McNairs traded Nuk away because of their morality horse crap that they use as a biased metric. This stupidity has infected this franchise for years, now to the point of hiring a glorified youth pastor as interim GM and part of the 'ad hoc hiring committee'.

You don't trade core players for garbage and try to justify it through a passive, compliant media as only a business decision, and expect an educated fan base to fall for that nonsensical mentality. That's why fans and national media see thorough this transparent stupidity, and why this owner and front office is and continues to be a laughing stock.

And they think they are fooling anyone with demands of draft capital for Fuller? The league knows better. They know this is a bush league front office.
Click to expand...

I've been saying for yrs the Texans will never win anything until the McNair's change their philosophy. I was hoping this philosophy would change when Bob McNair died. Obviously the philosophy hasn't changed. In fact it may have gotten worse.

It took Hopkins getting traded for some to realize this has been what I've been talking about since 2010. I'm guessing Hopkins was a Janice call.
 
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