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Texans to trade and cut players for a better GM option (see article)

maverick512000 said:
If you mean in the draft there are always good players every year that might be available. Texans are going to have to make some hard choices in this rebuild and one of those is skipping the next draft basically or just being bit players.

I agreed with the Tunsil deal then and I still do but I also said it was a “win now” move and we would pay for it later. Well we didn’t win and now the bill is due which means a couple of years of eating baked beans instead of steak.

I know the idea of basically sitting out a draft sucks especially when you know the season isn’t going to be worth watching but that the situation we find ourselves in. Let’s just hope whoever the new GM is can wheel and deal in F/A.
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I've given scenarios where the Texans can improve their draft capital. Do you really expect Cal to be a player in FA? The Texans never have been before and I dont expect this to change. I do expect Murray type FA signings though. Do Texans org. LMAO Keep on cashing those checks Cal and letting Pancakes be your schill. All is well in McNair world.
 
maverick512000 said:
If you are a coach with a proven winning record and trust of the fan base you MIGHT can get away with benching your franchise QB. If you are a new coach, particularly if you are a first time HC, then you play the money as the saying goes. Even BB got overruled when the face of the franchise went to the owner and said I’m unhappy, make this problem go away. Hell we just saw that with the Texans. Any GM and HC brought in will come in knowing that the rest of the team maybe up to them but Watson is the QB.
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I dunno .... I think its all about results and this could be another situation where the HC comes in and has a year with the current QB and if the results don't change , they could go in another direction - much like HWSNBM and Kubiak. One year with that guy was all it took to know he wasn't going to get you to the promised land.

A lot of this depends upon the team around that QB too .... but still , if we are seeing the same slow starts and sporadic scoring , big play or bust type of offense , I could see a the team drafting an eventual replacement.
You can blame those things on the HC / system / playcaller once .... but if the same things continue under a second .... the constant has to be considered as the issue.
 
Corrosion said:
I dunno .... I think its all about results and this could be another situation where the HC comes in and has a year with the current QB and if the results don't change , they could go in another direction - much like HWSNBM and Kubiak. One year with that guy was all it took to know he wasn't going to get you to the promised land.

A lot of this depends upon the team around that QB too .... but still , if we are seeing the same slow starts and sporadic scoring , big play or bust type of offense , I could see a the team drafting an eventual replacement.
You can blame those things on the HC / system / playcaller once .... but if the same things continue under a second .... the constant has to be considered as the issue.
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Not gonna happen.
 
badboy said:
I just disagree, we have the QB and LT. This roster with some tweeks will be interesting. No not even Division Champ for at least two years but can be some good football. The frustration for most of us comes from the decisions of Bill O'Brien Now he is gone.

There are good candidates for both GM and head coach and frustration also comes from no evidence we will land one of each. I'm going to wait and see as it gets old biotching just to do so.

We can get a WR, CB, safety and RB this off season. 2022 is when we move for significant starters. No I'm not sitting out this draft. I will even watch the remaining nine games.
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The defense is beyond just a few tweaks. Now it maybe that a solid defense coach can do something with it but the talent just doesn’t look to be there. You can’t bkame the defense on OB as he was always very hands off on that side of the ball.

Again though it’s a moot point because we HAVE to make major changes because right now we are way over budget. We either trade them now and get what we can or we cut them later and get pretty much nothing. We aren’t winning either way so, painful as it is, Texans need to stop delaying the inevitable. I say trade them for 2022 picks because where you MIGHT get a 3rd for Fuller in 21 you should definitely be able to get a 3rd and maybe a second in 22. We are missing major draft capital in 21 anyway and the new HC and GM will need time to get their staff rolling so why try and rush it?

It’s a measure twice, cut once thing.
 
Corrosion said:
I dunno .... I think its all about results and this could be another situation where the HC comes in and has a year with the current QB and if the results don't change , they could go in another direction - much like HWSNBM and Kubiak. One year with that guy was all it took to know he wasn't going to get you to the promised land.

A lot of this depends upon the team around that QB too .... but still , if we are seeing the same slow starts and sporadic scoring , big play or bust type of offense , I could see a the team drafting an eventual replacement.
You can blame those things on the HC / system / playcaller once .... but if the same things continue under a second .... the constant has to be considered as the issue.
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Good grief! Now we're comparing Watson to David freaking Carr??

You realize this is a team sport, right? And this team needs o-line, a coach who can coach them, RBs, WRs, an offensive design that isn't ****, a defense at damn near all 11 positions, and a defensive design that isn't ****. Oh, but if all of that isn't taken care of in 1 season and Watson still can't win then that's the guy who has to go? SMDH
 
I
Speedy said:
Good grief! Now we're comparing Watson to David freaking Carr??

You realize this is a team sport, right? And this team needs o-line, a coach who can coach them, RBs, WRs, an offensive design that isn't ****, a defense at damn near all 11 positions, and a defensive design that isn't ****. Oh, but if all of that isn't taken care of in 1 season and Watson still can't win then that's the guy who has to go? SMDH
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You know I agree with you, but there's more than one way to build a team if you start from scratch.

If you can trade Watson for a bunch of picks and cap space, it's just another way to rebuild the team.
It might be faster that way, getting solid in the trenches first, and then go over the top with an old hand (like Peyton Manning, Favre, Brady, or even Rivers, Tannehill). Who knows, maybe you can get lucky finding a Wilson or Prescott in the draft somewhere along the way.
 
Speedy said:
Good grief! Now we're comparing Watson to David freaking Carr??

You realize this is a team sport, right? And this team needs o-line, a coach who can coach them, RBs, WRs, an offensive design that isn't ****, a defense at damn near all 11 positions, and a defensive design that isn't ****. Oh, but if all of that isn't taken care of in 1 season and Watson still can't win then that's the guy who has to go? SMDH
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No sh*t. There's only one thing working in this franchise right now. There's only one incentive for any prospective hc, dw. Does anyone really think after just signing him to the contract we did we'll jettison him? No chance in hell.

I dont believe he walks on water and I do see him regressing. But i think he's the least of our problems. I just hope the new staff fixes his carr'ruption before he's broke.
 
Corrosion said:
but still , if we are seeing the same slow starts and sporadic scoring , big play or bust type of offense , I could see a the team drafting an eventual replacement.
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What if that's the way they designed it? I understand that's not your brand of football, but it's a legitimate approach to the game.

I thought more teams were going that direction with the rules favouring the passing game.
 
thunderkyss said:
You know this team is jacked. Why do you hate DW4 so much that you would doom him to another year here?

You know he ain't the problem. Three head coaches & two interim HCs into this, you know the problem is higher up.

Let him go. Let him be happy. Let him be free. If he loves you, he'll come back to you.
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The Free Bird be Free Falling!
 
Texansballer74 said:
Lol at DW4 feelings be damned. F setting this kid and team up for success.

I tell you some fans literally take things too personal when it comes to Watson.
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I can't take some of these guys serious as all. First off, the Texans have Watson who many in the NFL feel is a star QB. Second, if OB hadn't screwed this whole organization up so royally and they still possessed a full compliment of picks heading into the 2021 NFL Draft......the Texans would be entertaining unsolicited resumes from potential GM's and coaches. The future GM and HC will have to understand 2021 is a throw away season. They'll assess the talent to determine who will be worth keeping and who needs to go. Cal has to ensure them that 2021 is not a counting season but a season to unduck what they inherited.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
I can't take some of these guys serious as all. First off, the Texans have Watson who many in the NFL feel is a star QB. Second, if OB hadn't screwed this whole organization up so royally and they still possessed a full compliment of picks heading into the 2021 NFL Draft......the Texans would be entertaining unsolicited resumes from potential GM's and coaches. The future GM and HC will have to understand 2021 is a throw away season. They'll assess the talent to determine who can beket and who needs to go. Cal has to ensure them that 2021 is not a counting season but a season to unduck what they inherited.
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That’s what puzzle me the most. They are aware of those known facts. And yet they’re still dumping a pile of crap on this young man.

But when it was O’Brien, they gave him a pass by saying they’re giving him more time because Rick Smith supposedly screwed him over. You remember the rebuild comment. Lol
 
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thunderkyss said:
What if that's the way they designed it? I understand that's not your brand of football, but it's a legitimate approach to the game.

I thought more teams were going that direction with the rules favouring the passing game.
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If that's the case then there's little question as to why this offense is so inconsistent and that's a failure from the get go - Big plays are a rarity. They are unsustainable.

That stuff might work in college where teams can recruit better than others and have a talent gap but not in the NFL.
 
Double Barrel said:
Easterby is one of four on the search team. This we know through trusted sources. The others are Cal, Watson, and pancakes.

That is not an all-star search committee.

That Easterby is neither a football mind nor is he trusted by anyone in the NFL should be a little alarming to Texans fans seeing that he's now the owner's new BFF. Easterby has been described by many in the national media as a smile with a lust for power. Nothing he's done so far as undermined that narrative.

Obviously, everyone has a right to their opinion, and I don't blame those that are not alarmed. It's business as usual on Kirby, so expect status quo. I'm not here to argue about it.

But, I will continue to openly express my thoughts since I know the traffic to this site is a lot larger than the membership. Maybe, just maybe, the fan collective distrust seeps into the jet-stream of someone that can tell the front office that they look like a bunch of unqualified amateurs. The franchise is currently a laughing stock, both locally and nationally.

I study history and historical cycles, and everything about their current set up points to fundamental dysfunction. Again, just my perspective, but I adjust my expectations accordingly. . .meaning I have low to no expectations for this owner to do anything bold or significant.

Yeah, Cal will eventually hire a HC, and I assume a GM, and we will wave our pom poms and hope will spring eternal.

But, the boardroom consensus mentality is still there, and Jack Easterby will have a seat at it. Pancakes even admitted this much. I just don't trust any of it.
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This makes me feel gross. I mean we’re going to have to be astronomically lucky for that group to make the right franchise altering decisions.

A Fkn reporter(pancakes), a spoiled millionaire by inheritance, a former priest turned power hungry cut throat business man and a 4th year QB that’s never won anything walk into a bar.

we’re a joke!
 
En1gma57 said:
They said it would not happen with Montana either...
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This is the real reason the Niners decided to move on from Montana:

It was not a new regime that came in and want to make changes
Steve Young had to sit on that bench for 5 years, not counting the time he spent in TB.

With Montana's age and injury, it was a decision the Niners had to make.
They had plenty of time to train Young and to see how he play in relief of Montana.
 
powda said:
No sh*t. There's only one thing working in this franchise right now. There's only one incentive for any prospective hc, dw. Does anyone really think after just signing him to the contract we did we'll jettison him? No chance in hell.

I dont believe he walks on water and I do see him regressing. But i think he's the least of our problems. I just hope the new staff fixes his carr'ruption before he's broke.
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If he doesn't succeed it won't be because he's broke like Carr was. It will be because he's an avg QB who didn't improve.
 
thunderkyss said:
What if that's the way they designed it? I understand that's not your brand of football, but it's a legitimate approach to the game.

I thought more teams were going that direction with the rules favouring the passing game.
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It's not sustainable or championship winning brand of football.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Not when he got to Kansas City and he still took the Chiefs to the AFCCG. Beating a more talented Moon lead Oiler team along the way.
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Montana was in a similar boat as Manning.
Nobody can be sure whether they can come back successfully from an injury.
The Niners had Young sitting back there for years (like Rodgers behind Favre). At a certain point in time, you have to make a decision, also because those experienced backup QBs can be costly to keep.
It could have been the case of an Andrew Luck, where your whole season goes kaput when he decides he can no longer deal with the pain.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That’s what puzzle me the most. They are aware of those known facts. And yet they’re still dumping a pile of crap on this young man.

But when it was O’Brien, they gave him a pass by saying they’re giving him more time because Rick Smith supposedly screwed him over. You remember the rebuild comment. Lol
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For me I’m not dumping anything on him. He hasn’t improved as much as I would like but I want to see what a new HC can do with him. If it’s the same problems with a new HC then facts are facts the one thing in common would be Watson. I’ll admit I’m it encouraged by what I have been seeing lately because with OB gone it was suppose to be time to see the real Watson. I don’t expect to be winning, we lack the team for that, but I also don’t expect to be seeing the same issues we have seen for 3 years now. That worries me.

The only other thing I’ve commented on is the price tag of his contract which some seem to take personally. I don’t blame him for getting every penny he can nor do I really blame the Texans because if they didn’t sign him some scrub team with to much money would have offered him a stupid high deal. This is an NFL problem and it’s only going o get worse.

That being said it doesn’t change the fact that no team in the history of the NFL has won the SB when the QB was 15% of the cap. That’s just a fact and no calling me a Watson hater or anything else changes that fact. If Corrosion is right and the cap is going DOWN then his contract will be an even bigger problem. Again though this isn’t a Texans problem it’s an NFL problem and unless another QB pulls a Brady I think we are about to see the fall of all the big, franchise QB teams. The new standard will be build the team, tank your azz off one season, then draft your star QB and hope you win in the next 5 years.
 
maverick512000 said:
For me I’m not dumping anything on him. He hasn’t improved as much as I would like but I want to see what a new HC can do with him. If it’s the same problems with a new HC then facts are facts the one thing in common would be Watson. I’ll admit I’m it encouraged by what I have been seeing lately because with OB gone it was suppose to be time to see the real Watson. I don’t expect to be winning, we lack the team for that, but I also don’t expect to be seeing the same issues we have seen for 3 years now. That worries me.

The only other thing I’ve commented on is the price tag of his contract which some seem to take personally. I don’t blame him for getting every penny he can nor do I really blame the Texans because if they didn’t sign him some scrub team with to much money would have offered him a stupid high deal. This is an NFL problem and it’s only going o get worse.

That being said it doesn’t change the fact that no team in the history of the NFL has won the SB when the QB was 15% of the cap. That’s just a fact and no calling me a Watson hater or anything else changes that fact. If Corrosion is right and the cap is going DOWN then his contract will be an even bigger problem. Again though this isn’t a Texans problem it’s an NFL problem and unless another QB pulls a Brady I think we are about to see the fall of all the big, franchise QB teams. The new standard will be build the team, tank your azz off one season, then draft your star QB and hope you win in the next 5 years.
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Just want to say Watson's cap has not impacted our cap so far. I will run screaming off a cliff when closer to said cliff.
 
Corrosion said:
Nope , one of them won Superbowls ..... the other not so much.
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Bingo. And no it was not a new staff...per say. I mean last I looked Walsh in not Sefert (sp) and that was when Young took over. And I don't want to say he is just average. But, he forces throws under pressure instead of throwing it away (or runs), he tosses INTs like that. He is better moving, but only to the right. To the left he is not too good. And the curious part of that is he was the same way when drafted and in school.

Now, you have to wonder if he was our first choice at QB or OB thought he could train him... Just my.02 cents. However, what I said is on film and is fact.
 
Comparing The Montana trade with
a DW4 trade is the most asinine comparison. 1 guy was at the end, 1 guy is entering his prime. 1 guy couldn’t stay healthy & had another stud QB pushing him out. the other hasn’t missed a game in 3 years and has no one worth a damn pushing him. You think a new HC coming in is going to jettison him to roll the dice in the draft? Doesn’t matter if those picks are high...If so, I’ve got lakefront property out in the Sahara I’d like to sell you.
 
En1gma57 said:
Bingo. And no it was not a new staff...per say. I mean last I looked Walsh in not Sefert (sp) and that was when Young took over. And I don't want to say he is just average. But, he forces throws under pressure instead of throwing it away (or runs), he tosses INTs like that. He is better moving, but only to the right. To the left he is not too good. And the curious part of that is he was the same way when drafted and in school.

Now, you have to wonder if he was our first choice at QB or OB thought he could train him... Just my.02 cents. However, what I said is on film and is fact.
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Pretty much my take during the draft evaluation process ...


Funny thing is we have it all on film but some just don't want to see the truth. What they do see is the highlights but ignore everything else.


No , he wasn't OB's first choice , that would be Mahomes and it's been said that OB didn't want Watson at all but the FACT is there was a mandate from McNair "go get a QB". Well , they got one ... For better or worse.
 
Mr teX said:
Comparing The Montana trade with
a DW4 trade is the most asinine comparison. 1 guy was at the end, 1 guy is entering his prime. 1 guy couldn’t stay healthy & had another stud QB pushing him out. the other hasn’t missed a game in 3 years and has no one worth a damn pushing him. You think a new HC coming in is going to jettison him to roll the dice in the draft? Doesn’t matter if those picks are high...If so, I’ve got lakefront property out in the Sahara I’d like to sell you.
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Obviously not .... at least this year.

I could see the new GM / HC drafting a QB in year two or three .... but year one they are gonna roll with Watson and see which direction the arrow is pointing.
 
Corrosion said:
Obviously not .... at least this year.

I could see the new GM / HC drafting a QB in year two or three .... but year one they are gonna roll with Watson and see which direction the arrow is pointing.
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Yeah, probably Drafting his back up in round 4 and later. Does the kid have some warts? Absolutely, most qbs do..including the greats. But i don’t think you’re gonna find many guys that are gonna say he’s not a franchise qb. He’s just begun to scratch the ceiling of what he can become. And I feel confident in saying that for guys who are vying for HC gigs, guys who have been HC’s and current HC’s.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, probably Drafting his back up in round 4 and later. Does the kid have some warts? Absolutely, most qbs do..including the greats. But i don’t think you’re gonna find many guys that are gonna say he’s not a franchise qb. He’s just begun to scratch the ceiling of what he can become. And I feel confident in saying that for guys who are vying for HC gigs, guys who have been HC’s and current HC’s.
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Exactly what is a franchise QB in your opinion?

I consider guys like Wilson/Mahomes/Rodgers/Brady etc... to be franchise QB's. DW4's not in that group. Could he become this good? Possibly. But I wouldn't bet on it. Particularly when he's going to be taking up 20% of the cap or more.
 
Speedy said:
What are they not giving up on, a 5 win season??
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He sounds like the conductor of the band that kept playing while the Titanic slowly sank into the Atlantic Ocean.

He "doesn't believe in giving up"?? :lol:

Yeah, firing a HC after four games into a season kind of undermines on-going propaganda he spews.
There must be countless success stories of interim coaches achieving greatness. :sarcasm:
 
I may be in the minority here, but I am happy we aren't dumping guys (although I would be ok dumping Cunningham and Mercilus). We need a leader who can step up and stop the bleeding. Unloading guys for nothing is not helping. We already had one yahoo do that. If we get a great offer for someone, let's consider it, but don't let guys guy on the cheap.
 
Corrosion said:
No , he wasn't OB's first choice , that would be Mahomes and it's been said that OB didn't want Watson at all but the FACT is there was a mandate from McNair "go get a QB". Well , they got one ... For better or worse.
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I know we kind of take this as fact around here, and I'm not claiming it isn't true... but can you point to the source for this? Particularly Watson was "forced" on BOB.

BOB preferring Mahomes sounds very plausible, but him not wanting Watson at all sounds fishy.
 
dream_team said:
I know we kind of take this as fact around here, and I'm not claiming it isn't true... but can you point to the source for this? Particularly Watson was "forced" on BOB.

BOB preferring Mahomes sounds very plausible, but him not wanting Watson at all sounds fishy.
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I don't have those sources, but O'Brien did start Tom Savage instead of Deshaun Watson. That lasted for one half of football.

According to John McClain in 2017, it was Rick Smith's pick:

"While the Texans prepare for the Chiefs, this is a good time to revisit the draft-day trade that brought Watson to Houston.

General manager Rick Smith, who had scouted Watson extensively, deserves credit for trading up from No. 25 to 12 to select Watson - the third quarterback taken behind Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) and Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City).

Smith convinced Cleveland to swap first-round picks by offering the Texans' No. 1 draft choice in 2018.

Smith wanted Watson so badly he tried to trade with the New York Jets up to No. 6 but couldn't work out a deal that was suitable to both teams."

~ John McClain - Source
 
amazing80 said:
I may be in the minority here, but I am happy we aren't dumping guys (although I would be ok dumping Cunningham and Mercilus). We need a leader who can step up and stop the bleeding. Unloading guys for nothing is not helping. We already had one yahoo do that. If we get a great offer for someone, let's consider it, but don't let guys guy on the cheap.
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I’m in the same camp as you. We have seen this team make hasty decision to freaking often. I believe it will be better if they would allow the new regime to come in make these type of decisions. Hopefully they will land a top notch GM and coach who actually knows how to build a competitive team.
 
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