badboy
Hall of Fame
Gloom, despair and agony on me..
I'm so frustrated my wife must buy tickets for me!
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Texans random thought of the day
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
I'm so frustrated my wife must buy tickets for me!
dude... you gotta post the pict that goes with that line.
two of these guys are Texian and SteelB...
Are the other two JB and Thorn?
badboy
Hall of Fame
I actually started to but thought few would even remember Hee Haw with Roy Clark and Buck Owens.
dude... you gotta post the pict that goes with that line.
edit his song "yesterday when I was young" is so powerful for me.
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sandman
Brexit Advisor
Aaaaand, signing a budget contract with the TE who is on the roster for his receiving ability has nothing to do with addressing or not addressing the need for maximum protection. That was not what the Texans are asking him to do the majority of the plays he is on the field.
The Bucaneers & the Colts weren't expecting to win in Winston or Peyton's first year & they didn't.
I don't think the Falcons did either but the had a sweet surprise of a run game.
I think we've won this division twice with mutt & jeff under center. If O'b can get Watson ready for the RyanFitzpatrick offense our chance of winning this division isn't much worse than our chances with the guy they've passed over for three years.
I wouldn't have a problem with Watson throwing 41 TDs & 17 ints. I wouldn't have a problem with 31 TDs & 17 ints.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
They aren't the only ones....
Apparently this 'event' started back in the mid-90s. Here's a picture with some guys you might recognize from a little while backLINK
Yeah, that's RGIII, Russell Wilson, and Teddy Bridgewater on the front row. Not sure who that Texan is sitting behind RGIII....
Looks like Posey
Is that Cal on the right?dude... you gotta post the pict that goes with that line.
two of these guys are Texian and SteelB...
Are the other two JB and Thorn?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Matt Ryan and Winston both threw 19 interceptions their last year in college. The teams that drafted them had no problems throwing them to the Wolves. Peyton Manning had 13 and the Colts had no issue starting him day one. Manning rookie year he had 28 interceptions. And look at how his career turn out to be.
Now why don't yall never bring up success stories like that. Its like you're only focus on the negative aspect.
Negative Nancy mutha jokers.[/QUOTE]
Big difference...those teams were horrible and rebuilding. The Texans are expected to win AFC South again and possibly go deeper into the playoffs, maybe not by the media types but certainly by this FO and its fan base...this isn't supposed to be a re-building year.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
What's your take on a 15 TD - 17 INT line?
didn't we ship that guy off to Cleveland?
....and they PAID to take him..?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Big difference...those teams were horrible and rebuilding. The Texans are expected to win AFC South again and possibly go deeper into the playoffs, maybe not by the media types but certainly by this FO and its fan base...this isn't supposed to be a re-building year.[/QUOTE]
Many have the Texans dropping to last in the Division. They have the Titans and Jaguars fighting for that #1 spot in the Division.
You don't have to be rebuilding to start your could be Franchise Quarterback. Dude you do know we don't have a QB huh? Savage is not that guy. And why wait until he gets hurt or stink up joint. Every team in our Division have their franchise QB but us.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Many have the Texans dropping to last in the Division. They have the Titans and Jaguars fighting for that #1 spot in the Division.
You don't have to be rebuilding to start your could be Franchise Quarterback. Dude you do know we don't have a QB huh? Savage is not that guy. And why wait until he gets hurt or stink up joint. Every team in our Division have their franchise QB but us.[/QUOTE]
We have our franchise QB.
Also have the 2018 NFL rookie DPOY.
Many have the Texans dropping to last in the Division. They have the Titans and Jaguars fighting for that #1 spot in the Division.
You don't have to be rebuilding to start your could be Franchise Quarterback. Dude you do know we don't have a QB huh? Savage is not that guy. And why wait until he gets hurt or stink up joint. Every team in our Division have their franchise QB but us.[/QUOTE]
Do we know we have a franchise QB now?
Texansballer74
The Marine
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Go look back at every 1st round QB drafted since Luck in 2012. Lots of teams thought they had their franchise QB, otherwise they would not have spent a 1st round pick on them.
The question you ask semantically is YES, the Texans have a franchise QB based on the draft placement, capital required to acquire said pick and the strategy of the team to make him the long-term starter.
The question you ask realistically can't be answered for a few more years. See: Blake Bortles
Ask me when Koolaid season starts again.
About as much as the other teams in our division do.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Let's see,
Bortles sucks and is the furthest thing away from being a "Franchise QB". Ask Jag fans if they still feel like Bortles is their guy?
Luck looked like a "Franchise QB" up until the Colts didn't think an OL was a high priority. Luck could become damaged goods before he gets out of Indy.
Mariota should come into his own this season. It appears the Titans really went our and addressed their needs, which in turn, will help Mariota really arrive in his 3rd season.
If memory serves me, they will be starting years 3, 4 and 6 respectively but none of these QB's have exactly established themselves as a true "Franchise QB" with their organizations.
If the Jags make a move...it'll be b/c of their focus and efforts put towards the defense. Fournette will be a solid addition but their fate could lie right at Bortles feet.
Titans should make a move in 2017. This organization has built a solid team in 3 years. Curious to see how this plays out on the field.
Colts should put some serious consideration to trading Luck while they're in a position to land enough picks to really amp up their required re-building process over the next two seasons.
So, do I believe what media types are saying about the Texans....hell no! Texans will still field the best defense in the AFC South. They got 9 wins with a very poor offense, so I can't help but think with Savage under center, he's more than capable of managing this offense, can cut down on the TO's and help keep the defense fresher based on the fact that he can open the playbook for O'Brien allowing him to be much more creative when calling plays. I firmly believe that O'Brien will have Watson spend a season learning his offense while Savage gets the sink or swim opportunity.
Bortles sucks and is the furthest thing away from being a "Franchise QB". Ask Jag fans if they still feel like Bortles is their guy?
Luck looked like a "Franchise QB" up until the Colts didn't think an OL was a high priority. Luck could become damaged goods before he gets out of Indy.
Mariota should come into his own this season. It appears the Titans really went our and addressed their needs, which in turn, will help Mariota really arrive in his 3rd season.
If memory serves me, they will be starting years 3, 4 and 6 respectively but none of these QB's have exactly established themselves as a true "Franchise QB" with their organizations.
If the Jags make a move...it'll be b/c of their focus and efforts put towards the defense. Fournette will be a solid addition but their fate could lie right at Bortles feet.
Titans should make a move in 2017. This organization has built a solid team in 3 years. Curious to see how this plays out on the field.
Colts should put some serious consideration to trading Luck while they're in a position to land enough picks to really amp up their required re-building process over the next two seasons.
So, do I believe what media types are saying about the Texans....hell no! Texans will still field the best defense in the AFC South. They got 9 wins with a very poor offense, so I can't help but think with Savage under center, he's more than capable of managing this offense, can cut down on the TO's and help keep the defense fresher based on the fact that he can open the playbook for O'Brien allowing him to be much more creative when calling plays. I firmly believe that O'Brien will have Watson spend a season learning his offense while Savage gets the sink or swim opportunity.
I'm calling my shot now,
Watson will be a middling 15ish type QB.
Perfect for the 9-7/7-9 franchise the Texans org is.
Really?
You think the Colts would trade Luck or the Tacks would trade Mariota for Watson?
Sometimes I think you just throw crap against the wall to get a response.
Texansballer74
The Marine
7-9 . Man when was the last time we went 7-9. ?
We went 9-7 with horrendous quarterback play. So why can't a 15ish type QB improve that record to 10 or better?
I didn't know that's how we defined franchise QB.
Would the Colts trade Luck for Phillip Rivers...
Would the Tacks trade Mariota for Matt Stafford...
Other than start a few games... what's Mariotta done that Watson hasn't?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
IIRC we had a thread on the definition of few years back was a QB teams would look to build their franchise around for the majority of his career/without looking to constantly upgrade. About 9-12 at any given time with 3-5 of that elite.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I certainly hope the Jags are convinced that Bortles is their guy
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
You mean this guy?
In the world of NFL Qbing that means he will be 8-10 year starter with the idea that he would get better with just a better surrounding cast. The Texans would waiting for Watson to go all Joe flacco onepost season (seems capable). it would be a "win" but sort the frustrating type that would keep the Texans from ever really sucking, but needing to for too much to go right. Honestly, i agree this is the most probably outcome as i don't see Watson ending up awful, but would be surprised if he among the true very to elite starter.
A couple of clarification questions if you don't mind:
How many years will this take?
How are you defining "15ish type QB"?
Are you saying that's his ceiling or his early career with a chance to grow?
Back at the end of the season, Pro Football Focus ranked NFL QBs like this....
1. Tom Brady
2. Matt Ryan
3. Andrew Luck (not sure if he stays this high)
4. Aaron Rodgers (no way I put Luck above Rodgers)
5. Drew Brees
6. Russell Wilson
7. Derek Carr
8. Ben Roethlisberger
9. Cam Newton
10. Matthew Stafford
11. Phillip Rivers
12. Dak Prescott
13. Kirk Cousins
14. Carson Palmer
15. Sam Bradford
16. Jameis Winston
17. Andy Dalton
18. Ryan Tannehill
19. Marcus Mariota
20. Tyrod Taylor
21. Alex Smith
22. Carson Wentz
23. Joe Flacco
24. Eli Manning
25. Blake Bortles
26. Matt Barkley
27. Trevor Siemian
28. Cody Kessler
29. Colin Kaepernick
30. Jared Goff
31. Ryan Fitzpatrick
32. Brock Osweiler
So if we get Carson Palmer/Sam Bradford/Jameis Winston level play from Watson - with a chance that he'll continue to grow - I'll take that over the Osweiler/Fitzpatrick/Hoyer level play we've had to endure over the past three years. I'd say this draft was a success. I mean, that's better than Eli, Flacco, Alex Smith, and Andy Dalton, all of whom are 'franchise QBs'.
Not "elite". There are only 3 or 4 of those.
Very Texan like
I see Watson in 3-4 yrs being very much like Tannehill/Dalton/Bradford. I would love for Watson to be as clutch on the big stage as Flacco.
Watson will never have the chance to improve as much as Winston. The talent level isn't there. IMHO I would be happy if Watson in 3-4 yrs turns out to be as good as Winston was last yr.
Still not good enough to win a SB. Unless he's as clutch as Flacco.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I didn't know that's how we defined franchise QB.
Would the Colts trade Luck for Phillip Rivers...
Would the Tacks trade Mariota for Matt Stafford...
Other than start a few games... what's Mariotta done that Watson hasn't?
By the same token...we can say the same exact thing for Savage. So the anti-Savage guys need to sit back, take a breath and enjoy the Savage show to start the season. It's his job to lose.
ESPN NFL did a 2017 Starting Lineup Projection for all 32 teams....I almost gagged a little bit when these bafoons projected what our starting OL would be:
LT- Brown (Check)
LG- Su'a-Filo (Check)
OC- Martin (OK, I'd prefer Mancz stay put)
RG- Allen (He must 100% earn his right to be starter, I'd park Martin here and make Allen beat him. Marring starts.)
RT- Clark (Another snafu...or another ESPN brainchild for getting the Texans QB's killed and eliminating runs to the right side.)
Based on what the right side of this unit produced last season, what on earth would make any halfway intelligent media type suggest that Allen and Clark would be the best options for the Texans to start at RT and RG for 2017?
I think the better unit (forecasting only) for the Texans would look something like this:
LT- Brown (Check)
LG- Su'a-Filo (Check)
OC- Mancz (Was Texans best OL over the course of 16 games in 2017. I'd like to see him continue to grow at this position. It only stands to reason that he would be better after a full season and with better RG play Mancz could be a permanent fixture at C.)
RG- Martin (He has experience at OG and he didn't get a lot of time at the C position last before his injury. Mancz got his opportunity and basically made the most of it. If Martin was going to handle a transition...this would be the time to execute the move. Give him the entire off-season to focus on becoming the Texans starting RG. If Allen was truly not himself last season due to playing with an injury, then let him prove it, or basically let him mentor Martin. Actually, since both guys are coming off injuries, they'd make a solid rotation while hopefully keeping each other fresh for a full season.)
RT- Giacomini (If he's healthy and has the willingness to prove folks wrong for trying to write him off then put the veteran in and let him and Davenport be tied at the hip. Gio and Brown's veteran leadership could really help solidify this OL. Let Davenport and him rotate and hopefully by the bye week Davenport would be ready to assume the lions share of the snaps or Gio has decided he likes the idea of remaining the starting RT.)
Competing Depth Chart:
OT: Davenport, Clark, Lamm, Gibson, Simonich
OG: Allen, Slade, Walker, Quessenberry
OC: Fuller
Texansballer74
The Marine
Anti Savage guys hahahaha what have this dude done besides gets hurt. How many TD'S has he thrown when he did get a chance to play? Did he put up mind boggling numbers during that time? What big time game has he won?
And some people on here type just to be typing. I mean Tannehill Dalton and a highly injured prone Bradford is his benchmark. Hahahaha off the darn chainzzz. Wow. This dude and his freaking crystal ball.
I surely hope my Texans take care of their business and Watson shine so some people could shut up with all the negative talk.
Oh we do have some really good talent on the offensive side.
And some people on here type just to be typing. I mean Tannehill Dalton and a highly injured prone Bradford is his benchmark. Hahahaha off the darn chainzzz. Wow. This dude and his freaking crystal ball.
I surely hope my Texans take care of their business and Watson shine so some people could shut up with all the negative talk.
Oh we do have some really good talent on the offensive side.
Texansballer74
The Marine
If our Oline can stay healthy they should be much improved from last season.
I believe Davenport will win the RT position. He's going to be really good. Once Brown is done I can see him moved to LT.
Mancz will start at OG if Martin is healthy.
Allen was dealing with a really nagging injury all of last year. He's a better OG than what we seen last season. So I can see him play much better this season.
Quessenberry is going to be a success story for the ages. He would've been a starter if not for the cancer.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
#15 in yards: Winston with 4000
#15 in %: Carr with 63.8
#15 in TD's: Bortles with 23
#15 in YPA: Winston with 7.21
#15 in Rating: Dalton with 91.8
I'm good with that.
First, I'm not an anti-Savage guy. I just don't think the Texans believe Savage to be anything more than a back-up. I've pointed to the fact that they've gone way the f'k out of their way to keep him from starting. You do not sign a FA to a $37M contract if you think you have a potential franchise guy sitting on the bench. You do not trade away a future first round pick to take a QB if you think you have a potential franchise guy sitting on the bench.
Second, the post you quoted is not a "Watson is our franchise guy because...." statement. It's more of a "That's a screwed up way to determine if a guy is a franchise QB."
My simple definition... if you're not worried about having to play them, they're not a franchise QB.
Drew Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers... I'm always worried about them dissecting our defense. Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, I worry if we'll be able to contain them & stop them from doing what they do to every other team.
Ain't nobody worried about playing against DeShaun Watson, Tom Savage, Blake Bortles, or Marcus Mariota (not yet). & right now, I'm not too worried about Luck either (until he proves to be healthy & effective).
There was a time when we knew Derek Newton was going to be our starting RT & it didn't make sense. The line was better his second years as our starter. Better again in his third year... I understand there's a difference between a young guy improving year over year & an old guy. But there was still the issues with both Allen & Clark being new to the system, playing together, & the QB (probably a lot of confusion going on there).
I'm not saying I want Clark & Allen to start, only that there are reasons to believe they can get better. Even as poorly as they played last season, they played better than a lot of OLs in the league. I want to get better. I want improvement there, but to think just any body would be better is off the mark. They weren't that bad.
As far as Mancz... There was a lot of double teaming involving the center. I don't know if that's because that's what we want to do, or what we had to do (lots of teams combo block off the center a lot). But if the team wants to get away from that I can see them going with Martin at Center.
Going with Martin at Center, expecting him to play more one on one would allow the RG (Allen or Mancz) to help or cheat more on the right side. Say if you want to start Davenport.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
No way man.
Mancz was ranked 9th in the league in his first year!
Remember how concerned everyone was when we lost Myers? We have found the answer and so quickly!
I would be more inclined to leave Mancz right where he is and try everyone else out at RT - if they can't find the answer with what is on the roster now, then it will be what it will be.
QB play can help the line if he can get rid of the ball quickly and a two headed monster at RB will also help. Opposing D's will wear down under constant pressure.
Ok.
If you were running the team, we'd know what your plans are for the center position for 2017. However...
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
You could
The C is like the QB of the line and Mancz did rather nicely.
The line will also improve with more time together as a unit - they have been chopped and changed around a lot in recent years and there is just no other answer right now.
There could be a surprise turn up after the June 1st cuts but I doubt you will get a pro-bowler anyway.
I would love to see a line like Dallas or Oakland has here but it ain't gonna happen this year.
You could try Mancz at RT and see how Martin goes at C but ....you are disrupting the cohesion of the line.
The C is like the QB of the line and Mancz did rather nicely.
The line will also improve with more time together as a unit - they have been chopped and changed around a lot in recent years and there is just no other answer right now.
There could be a surprise turn up after the June 1st cuts but I doubt you will get a pro-bowler anyway.
I would love to see a line like Dallas or Oakland has here but it ain't gonna happen this year.
Texansballer74
The Marine
With good health I believe our line will be much improved. Probably not like the Cowboys or Raiders. But around 10-15 which will be suffice/adequate.
Number19
Hall of Fame
You know, the situation we have with Mancz and Martin mirrors our potential situation at QB. We had a highly regarded OC prospect in Mancz, who had spent the previous season on IR. We spend a second round draft pick on Martin to be our long term OC. He gets hurt and goes on IR. Mancz comes off of IR and plays at a superior level, rated 9th best at his position. Martin comes off of IR, creating the question of who best to play OC.
We need to play our five best OL'men. Allen, Martin and Mancz have the flexibility and skills to play multiple positions. If these three prove to be three of the five best, the coaches will have to find the most effective combination.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So there is no resemblance because Mancz played a year at a high level and Savage has done jack.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've brought this up before. In addition to the calf issues that affected Allen most of the season, there is another factor that undoubtedly affected his performance. Until last year, he had never played anything but LG. RG was a foreign position for him. You might say that should make no difference, but it can make all the difference in the world, much like trying to switch sides as an OT. It can also explain why even decent tackles can look mediocre when placed in a position to play both sides. It's great to cheer versatility on the OL, but it is definitely for many reasons not the optimum approach to having a great consistent OL.
**************************************************************************************************************
Switching Sides (PFF)
Have you ever wondered why a guy seemingly so suited to the right side of the line can’t cut it there? Or why a player with all the athletic skills for left tackle makes a better player on the right side?
With the growth of the draft into the media event it is today, and of the NFL in general into a 24/7 world of information, there is a tendency for everybody to speak like scouts from time to time.
We all feel we can evaluate talent, analyze players and project them into various different teams, schemes and positions. However, without the practical experience of implementing the theory are we in danger of over simplifying things or underestimating the challenges involved in some of those transitions?
Tradition, Tradition
For instance, many of us often treat positions on the left and right of the offensive line as interchangeable. The assumption goes that if a guy can play left guard then he can play right guard, and if he can play left tackle he can play right — but is that necessarily the case? When it comes to the draft players can come out deemed ‘right tackle only’ by the talent evaluators, but it’s because they are considered to lack the footwork and quickness to match-up against the league’s best pass-rushers on the quarterback’s blindside, not because of any fundamental dominance in technique to one side. Nobody is worried about the actual mechanics of swapping sides, simply about the chance of that player destroying their quarterback if they can’t cut it as a pass-protector....................................THE REST OF THE STORY
**************************************************************************************************************
Switching Sides (PFF)
Have you ever wondered why a guy seemingly so suited to the right side of the line can’t cut it there? Or why a player with all the athletic skills for left tackle makes a better player on the right side?
With the growth of the draft into the media event it is today, and of the NFL in general into a 24/7 world of information, there is a tendency for everybody to speak like scouts from time to time.
We all feel we can evaluate talent, analyze players and project them into various different teams, schemes and positions. However, without the practical experience of implementing the theory are we in danger of over simplifying things or underestimating the challenges involved in some of those transitions?
Tradition, Tradition
For instance, many of us often treat positions on the left and right of the offensive line as interchangeable. The assumption goes that if a guy can play left guard then he can play right guard, and if he can play left tackle he can play right — but is that necessarily the case? When it comes to the draft players can come out deemed ‘right tackle only’ by the talent evaluators, but it’s because they are considered to lack the footwork and quickness to match-up against the league’s best pass-rushers on the quarterback’s blindside, not because of any fundamental dominance in technique to one side. Nobody is worried about the actual mechanics of swapping sides, simply about the chance of that player destroying their quarterback if they can’t cut it as a pass-protector....................................THE REST OF THE STORY
Number19
Hall of Fame
I do not disagree with the main premise of the post, but I find numerious references that Allen has, at least some, experience at RT.
From SB Nation, March 10, 2016 : "...With experience along the interior and starting at the right tackle spot, Allen has plenty of versatility for his new team. He's still better as a guard...".
So, I don't know.
Wait a minute, when was Savage a highly regarded prospect?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He played left and right tackle in college. 2014-5 he played RT in KC. Nor sure where Doc got never played RT.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I think I finally found my answer. He started at LG, but played RT "in a pinch". How much time he played at RT I still don't know.
a decent read of Allen by a KC fan
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/...-play-retained-free-agency-kansas-city-chiefs
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/...-play-retained-free-agency-kansas-city-chiefs
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Should have stated "in the NFL." I was referring to his KC
I stand corrected about his KC experience. Didn't follow him the year before he came to us. After playing in KC for his first 2 years at LG, the last time I really follow him was in 2014. Really didn't think much of his RT experience then, since the Chiefs put him there because Donaldson had to serve out a 4 game suspension. Week 1, he suffered a biceps rupture at his elbow and didn't play until week 3 of 2015, where they kept him at RT.........which I didn't catch. Thanks for the correction.
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