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Texans Offensive Line

NitroGSXR said:
He was thrown ASIDE LIKE A RAGDOLL by the DT and fell down onto the ground. He stopped himself from falling with his arms but he went -down-. Tunsil had to wrap his arms around the DT to hold him so Patterson could get himself back up and ultimately into #45 who kneed him into a concussion. If that’s the block… then gosh I don’t know what to say. Look at the all-22. While we were fortunate, the play looked terrible.

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Look, yeah it looked awful live on the replay, but In fairness to him tho, it was the guys 1st bit of action all season.

I’d still look to slot him in somewhere at guard or center once he’s healthy enough and out of the protocol. Anyone but Green at this point imo.
 
Mr teX said:
Look, yeah it looked awful live on the replay, but In fairness to him tho, it was the guys 1st bit of action all season.

I’d still look to slot him in somewhere at guard or center once he’s healthy enough and out of the protocol. Anyone but Green at this point imo.
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Bottom line is it may not have been pretty, but he got the job done.
 
Anybody else wonder, if the Texans don’t get this OL thing right in the next couple of seasons….maybe CJ begins to wonder about playing for another organization instead of re-signing?

What is it with the Texans ability to put their puzzle together all at the right time? Always seems to be something missing from season to season. Great OL for a short period and a QB who could hit the fetal position if a fly raced past his ear hole too fast. Highly invested in QB’s with obvious potential, dealing with piss-poor to under achieving OL’s while trying to develop.

This has to stop if the Texans want to get the best out of CJ.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Anybody else wonder, if the Texans don’t get this OL thing right in the next couple of seasons….maybe CJ begins to wonder about playing for another organization instead of re-signing?

What is it with the Texans ability to put their puzzle together all at the right time? Always seems to be something missing from season to season. Great OL for a short period and a QB who could hit the fetal position if a fly raced past his ear hole too fast. Highly invested in QB’s with obvious potential, dealing with piss-poor to under achieving OL’s while trying to develop.

This has to stop if the Texans want to get the best out of CJ.
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Opto, you about ready to draft some studs ?
 
FuzzyLogic said:
By falling down - it was an accidental block at best not skill.
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He got the job done because he actually crawled into the guy. You can try to discredit what he did all you want too. But the Texans scored 2 TD's and Patterson got the job done that directly contributed to one of those TD's. I realy dont care how the job got done, only that it got done.
 
Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but I am really confused about what has happened to the O Line between last season and this current one. Stroud consistently had time to throw last season, but now he's under constant pressure. It's more or less the same personnel and coaching right?
 
FireBOB said:
Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but I am really confused about what has happened to the O Line between last season and this current one. Stroud consistently had time to throw last season, but now he's under constant pressure. It's more or less the same personnel and coaching right?
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That is an excellent question. I guess, to get the definitive, no wait, the official answer, we'd have to ask Demeco .... I'm pretty sure he'd respond "nothing serious .... we just need to get some things fixed." I'd say it's a combination a lack of talent and a lack of want to. "
'
 
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FireBOB said:
Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but I am really confused about what has happened to the O Line between last season and this current one. Stroud consistently had time to throw last season, but now he's under constant pressure. It's more or less the same personnel and coaching right?
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What happened? Kenyon Green came back & was inserted into the starting lineup is what happened. Last year he was out for the year with a torn pec & missed the entire season.
 
I know that Kenyon Green catches a lot of flak and deservedly so, but Juice Scruggs is a huge question mark at this point as well. He is responsible for calling protections, and we've all seen how that has not been working. I beleive he was also responsible for many of the penalties early in the year. Why it was said that they all 'need to get on the same page' was thrown about often
 
JB said:
I know that Kenyon Green catches a lot of flak and deservedly so, but Juice Scruggs is a huge question mark at this point as well. He is responsible for calling protections, and we've all seen how that has not been working. I beleive he was also responsible for many of the penalties early in the year. Why it was said that they all 'need to get on the same page' was thrown about often
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I forget how many games Patterson played at center before Dieter took over. Patterson did Ok in what I recall.

I am surprised that they haven’t tried Patterson at center and move Scruggs to Green’s spot.
 
TexansBull said:
I forget how many games Patterson played at center before Dieter took over. Patterson did Ok in what I recall.

I am surprised that they haven’t tried Patterson at center and move Scruggs to Green’s spot.
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Scruggs athleticism should’ve seen him return to LG this season so his development stayed consistent. Same should’ve happened to Patterson at Center the moment he was healthy enough to return.

At the same time, I knew the team was hell-bent on finding out what Kenyon Green could do at LG…..for me, the writing was on the wall far sooner than WK8. They should’ve moved Scruggs back to LG when Patterson was good to go b/c it was obvious he wasn’t doing a good job of calling out protections. It wasn’t like Patterson was a master at calling protections, but he didn’t completely sink the ship during his first 6 games. My guess, he was watching a lot of film and preparing for the idea that he’d return to Center when he was ready to return. IMHO, he’d be ready to take the reins at Center once again id the team asked him to make the move.
 
What I want to know is when is the Texans Offensive Line Coach going to answer a few questions!!

Because I have a few questions for him. So far it seems to me that Chris Stausser has been able to slide under the radar, but I would like to hear from him as to what the hell he is coaching these guys to do. Because it sure seems that the whole Offensive Line has their collective heads up their asses!

This kind of performance has got to start and stop with the O Line coach. But some how this guy has not been call to task by anyone.

​

 
JB said:
...Juice Scruggs is a huge question mark at this point as well. He is responsible for calling protections, and we've all seen how that has not been working...
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How do you know Scruggs is calling protections? Link please. Or is this just speculation?
 
JB said:
I know that Kenyon Green catches a lot of flak and deservedly so, but Juice Scruggs is a huge question mark at this point as well. He is responsible for calling protections, and we've all seen how that has not been working. I beleive he was also responsible for many of the penalties early in the year. Why it was said that they all 'need to get on the same page' was thrown about often
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A lot of the penalties weren’t really related to the getting on the same page thing..plus as I recall Tunsil was the only 1 really saying that which could mean a lot things.

But if u go back and look at those games we were heavily penalized in, they were mostly unrelated to protection calls; just guys doing stupid **** all on their own. False starts, illegal man downfield…illegal formation & holding were the bulk of them penalties.

Definitely keeping an eye on Scruggs, but I think If Green was even halfway competent, he wouldn’t look as bad. Teams are running stunts in that A gap between he and Green b/c they know Green is gonna flub up the hand off in some way or another. Just turning his shoulders too much outside trying to help opens up that gap between he and Scruggs a little too much and gives Scruggs man more room to work & get around him. I’ve seen that a ton from Green.
 
Mr teX said:
A lot of the penalties weren’t really related to the getting on the same page thing..plus as I recall Tunsil was the only 1 really saying that which could mean a lot things
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Tunsil's remarks about getting on the same page was about the count. The Center's count has to be the same as the Tackles.

Calling protection is about those stupid things you're talking about. The line going right & a free rusher coming from the left.
 
L
Mr teX said:
A lot of the penalties weren’t really related to the getting on the same page thing..plus as I recall Tunsil was the only 1 really saying that which could mean a lot things.

But if u go back and look at those games we were heavily penalized in, they were mostly unrelated to protection calls; just guys doing stupid **** all on their own. False starts, illegal man downfield…illegal formation & holding were the bulk of them penalties.

Definitely keeping an eye on Scruggs, but I think If Green was even halfway competent, he wouldn’t look as bad. Teams are running stunts in that A gap between he and Green b/c they know Green is gonna flub up the hand off in some way or another. Just turning his shoulders too much outside trying to help opens up that gap between he and Scruggs a little too much and gives Scruggs man more room to work & get around him. I’ve seen that a ton from Green.
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Good post. But shouldn’t a guy in his 3rd season have that down pat. Yes, he didn’t play last year. If anything, watching a teammate doing it correctly should make it easier. And where is the coaching? Green playing tomorrow is a disaster in the making.
 
thunderkyss said:
Tunsil's remarks about getting on the same page was about the count. The Center's count has to be the same as the Tackles.

Calling protection is about those stupid things you're talking about. The line going right & a free rusher coming from the left.
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This is true, but the actual protection calls weren’t really the issue imo . Aside from that it’s on the others to get timed up on Scruggs’ count, not the other way around. If u recall during that 3 game stretch where we were getting a gazillion penalties a game, The guys on the right side rarely had penalties called on them. I can recall Mason had a couple of holding calls in 1 game but I don’t recall Howard drawing any really. The bulk of those o-line penalties during that time were happening on that left side with Tunsil and his illegal formations, false starts and holdings…. And Green with his holding and illegal man downfield.

So why did the right side not really have any issues getting timed up with Scruggs but the left side had all kinds of issues? It sounded like excuses from Tunsil then and when u realize that the lion share of the penalties came from that left side, you can conclude it was actual bunk. So I don’t think the actual protection calls from Scruggs were the issue. The “getting on the same page” **** was Tunsil’s ass just not being able to hear the calls well enough nor the snap count timing when they were called & it was causing him to get out of his stance too late. He just threw that out there b/c he knew that Minny game where he had like 6 penalties by himself was unacceptable so he invoked the “we”. There was no WE.. it was HE…had to get his **** together. & to his credit he has. Only 1 penalty since that horrible game in Minnesota I believe.
 
Porky said:
L


Good post. But shouldn’t a guy in his 3rd season have that down pat. Yes, he didn’t play last year. If anything, watching a teammate doing it correctly should make it easier. And where is the coaching? Green playing tomorrow is a disaster in the making.
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These guys know when they’re playing like ****. I think Green is well aware of his tenuous situation so he’s overcompensating and being a little too aggressive in help/combo blocks b/c he’s just trying to do SOMETHING and that’s causing more issues. Then too I think he’s just overmatched from a strength and quickness standpoint. Have seen him just get blown up several times too.

Per Seth Payne, Apparently his hand placement is trash as well and he lets d-linemen get into his chest too easily.

After he came back from the benching he seemed to stabilize a little bit for the rest of the game, but for me he’s still got a long way to go before I believe he can be salvaged. He just needs to get back to base technique and MAYBE he can come out of this ok. I have my doubts tho.
 
Instead of falling down or to the side, I wished Green could fall down on his hands and knees sideways and at least force his opponents to jump over him. Probably improve his PFF? 🤔😉
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Anybody else wonder, if the Texans don’t get this OL thing right in the next couple of seasons….maybe CJ begins to wonder about playing for another organization instead of re-signing?

What is it with the Texans ability to put their puzzle together all at the right time? Always seems to be something missing from season to season. Great OL for a short period and a QB who could hit the fetal position if a fly raced past his ear hole too fast. Highly invested in QB’s with obvious potential, dealing with piss-poor to under achieving OL’s while trying to develop.

This has to stop if the Texans want to get the best out of CJ.
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To be fair they have invested a lot into that offensive line and its backups. Unfortunately things just isn’t working out.

What they need to do is invest in a top level offensive lines coach.
 
Mr teX said:
So why did the right side not really have any issues getting timed up with Scruggs but the left side had all kinds of issues? It sounded like excuses from Tunsil then and when u realize that the lion share of the penalties came from that left side, you can conclude it was actual bunk. So I don’t think the actual protection calls from Scruggs were the issue. The “getting on the same page” **** was Tunsil’s ass just not being able to hear the calls well enough nor the snap count timing when they were called & it was causing him to get out of his stance too late
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I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what's going on there, I'll just say what Tunsil said is plausible. I understand Tunsil should adapt to Scruggs count, but if Scruggs is not consistent, not saying that is the case but a possibility, then that makes it hard on everyone.

Why isn't the right side getting penalties, maybe they're waiting for the defense to move & not relying on the count. Again I don't know that but it could be a reason Shaq Mason seems to have regressed, because he's getting off too late because Scruggs is inconsistent. Same with Tytus. If they're waiting for the defense to move they'll always be late getting off the ball
 
I'm really ignorant when it comes to Oline play, but I do appreciate just how important it is to the success of an NFL team, as I know Demeco Ryans also does who began his pro career here in Houston the same year that the Texans first QB David Carr was leaving Houston.
So Ryans knows about Carr, actually he surely must know all about Carr including the Houston franchises failure to gather, develope, and secure a competent offensive line unit to support
Carr.
Demeco has gotta be having some deja vu with his young QB right now ,especially as we get
ready to play the team tonight that severely abused his Oline a year ago and knocked his young franchise QB out of the game and into concussion protocol.
 
IDEXAN said:
I'm really ignorant when it comes to Oline play, but I do appreciate just how important it is to the success of an NFL team, as I know Demeco Ryans also does who began his pro career here in Houston the same year that the Texans first QB David Carr was leaving Houston.
So Ryans knows about Carr, actually he surely must know all about Carr including the Houston franchises failure to gather, develope, and secure a competent offensive line unit to support
Carr.
Demeco has gotta be having some deja vu with his young QB right now ,especially as we get
ready to play the team tonight that severely abused his Oline a year ago and knocked his young franchise QB out of the game and into concussion protocol.
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I’m a true believer of building absolute fortified trenches or the Dirty Dozen (LT, LG, OC, RG, RT, DE, DT, DT, DE, OLB, ILB, OLB). The trenches are the backbone of the team. Everything they scheme on both sides of the ball has its success begin and end with the guys in the trenches. Get this right and add a QB1 like CJ Stroud and suddenly a team would become unstoppable. Many of the old NFL’s coolest nicknames were attributed to a teams trench units. Texans and Caserio need to find this path and get there quickly.
 
thunderkyss said:
... understand Tunsil should adapt to Scruggs count, but if Scruggs is not consistent ...
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thunderkyss said:
... Mason seems to have regressed, because he's getting off too late because Scruggs is inconsistent ...
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I'm confused. "Scruggs inconsistant"? Since I played a little QB back in the 60's in high school, it was the QB who called out the snap count. It's Scruggs and CJ who has to be in sync. Of course if noise level does not allow players to hear CJ, they move on the ball, but Scruggs is snapping on CJ's call. What am I missing?

Something that is missing in this discussion is that the Texans have a problem getting the play off before the time runs out. You see CJ clapping his hands demanding the ball immediately. I believe DeMeco has said they don't have a problem coming out of the huddle, but they are slow getting into the huddle and calling the play.
 
Number19 said:
I'm confused. "Scruggs inconsistant"? Since I played a little QB back in the 60's in high school, it was the QB who called out the snap count. It's Scruggs and CJ who has to be in sync. Of course if noise level does not allow players to hear CJ, they move on the ball, but Scruggs is snapping on CJ's call. What am I missing?

Something that is missing in this discussion is that the Texans have a problem getting the play off before the time runs out. You see CJ clapping his hands demanding the ball immediately. I believe DeMeco has said they don't have a problem coming out of the huddle, but they are slow getting into the huddle and calling the play.
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One of the easiest ways to solution that…..go to a hurry up offense.
 
Number19 said:
I'm confused. "Scruggs inconsistant"? Since I played a little QB back in the 60's in high school, it was the QB who called out the snap count. It's Scruggs and CJ who has to be in sync. Of course if noise level does not allow players to hear CJ, they move on the ball, but Scruggs is snapping on CJ's call. What am I missing?

Something that is missing in this discussion is that the Texans have a problem getting the play off before the time runs out. You see CJ clapping his hands demanding the ball immediately. I believe DeMeco has said they don't have a problem coming out of the huddle, but they are slow getting into the huddle and calling the play.
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Some teams have QB set the OL. Some including Houston have center set the OL (Stunts; blitz packages; LBs creeping a certain direction) while Stroud calls the plays in huddle. Supposedly, this allows Stroud to focus on defensive backs. Texans offensive scheme is a little bit more complicated than Stroud saying hike and the center snapping.
I think arguments can be made for both processes.
 
Number19 said:
I'm confused. "Scruggs inconsistant"? Since I played a little QB back in the 60's in high school, it was the QB who called out the snap count. It's Scruggs and CJ who has to be in sync. Of course if noise level does not allow players to hear CJ, they move on the ball, but Scruggs is snapping on CJ's call. What am I missing?

Something that is missing in this discussion is that the Texans have a problem getting the play off before the time runs out. You see CJ clapping his hands demanding the ball immediately. I believe DeMeco has said they don't have a problem coming out of the huddle, but they are slow getting into the huddle and calling the play.
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I agree with this, the other advantage of getting to the line early is that it gives the line a chance to set their blocking assignments and potentially reset them as the defense shows a blitz or backs off. My other criticism comes with the play calling. During the Colts game Schultz ran a quick slant for an easy 6 yards with the defense blitzing...and that was it for that type of play call. I'd like to see those easy quick passes/alerts on every play. Until the Texans make other teams pay for stacking up the box the Texans are going to see the same exact issues from opposing defenses.
 
Number19 said:
I'm confused. "Scruggs inconsistant"? Since I played a little QB back in the 60's in high school, it was the QB who called out the snap count. It's Scruggs and CJ who has to be in sync. Of course if noise level does not allow players to hear CJ, they move on the ball, but Scruggs is snapping on CJ's call. What am I missing?
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I can't imagine Tackles move on the ball. Especially the way Tunsil lines up (lol). I'm thinking of the silent count where Tunsil's Mississippi has to be the same as Scrugg's Mississippi.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I’m a true believer of building absolute fortified trenches or the Dirty Dozen (LT, LG, OC, RG, RT, DE, DT, DT, DE, OLB, ILB, OLB). The trenches are the backbone of the team. Everything they scheme on both sides of the ball has its success begin and end with the guys in the trenches. Get this right and add a QB1 like CJ Stroud and suddenly a team would become unstoppable. Many of the old NFL’s coolest nicknames were attributed to a teams trench units. Texans and Caserio need to find this path and get there quickly.
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Absolutely !
 
Number19 said:
How do you know Scruggs is calling protections? Link please. Or is this just speculation?
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I don't know if the Texans have ever said who is calling the protections. I think because it's a WCO, many are assuming it's the center. It can be the center, QB or both.

Fun fact. Brady ran the EP offense and the QB is in charge of calling the protections. However, Manning was one of the smartest QBs in NFL history and Jeff Saturday his center was making the majority of the protection calls. All that Omaha crap was to distract the defense and for audibles. Even when Manning would change the protection it was up to Saturday to communicate to the OL. So, without the HC, OC or OL coach answering that question it's hard to know.
 
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