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Texans Offensive Line

Texansballer74 said:
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They had Irving on the team through camp and pre season and he didn’t make the cut. The line looked awful in pre-season when he was in, but that went for all of the backups.

He can play every position on the line so good cover there. I was surprised they cut him for that reason alone.

I also guess this spells bad news for last weeks’ batch of practice squad signees, which included La’el Collins who was an interesting reclaimation project. They’ve had them in the building for a week and are churning that end of the roster again.
 
IDEXAN said:
I'm really ignorant when it comes to Oline play, but I do appreciate just how important it is to the success of an NFL team, as I know Demeco Ryans also does who began his pro career here in Houston the same year that the Texans first QB David Carr was leaving Houston.
So Ryans knows about Carr, actually he surely must know all about Carr including the Houston franchises failure to gather, develope, and secure a competent offensive line unit to support
Carr.
Demeco has gotta be having some deja vu with his young QB right now ,especially as we get
ready to play the team tonight that severely abused his Oline a year ago and knocked his young franchise QB out of the game and into concussion protocol.
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Exactly why I want to go heavy on OL in the draft and free agency. Get some dawgs before anything else.
 
JRingo said:
Exactly why I want to go heavy on OL in the draft and free agency. Get some dawgs before anything else.
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We have to have at least an above average to good OL if we want this team to win a superb owl. CJ can escape a little bit but he can't be expected to take all the punishment he has been taking and expect good results. I'm aware that we have to fix the line, so I think your diagnosis is correct.

I don't think there is any question that the Texans organization or NC hasn't invested heavily in the OL (Tunsil-Trade/Extended, Mason-Trade/Extended, Howard-1 Round Pick -Extended, Juice-2nd Round Pick, Kenyon - 1st Round Pick, Fisher - 2nd Round Pick, etc. This just off the top of my head).

But this begs the question...Can the Texans fix this problem? Everything I've seen says they are significantly below the league average when it comes to OL evaluation. What makes you think this will change?

Before you answer, remember that Ryans was the HC and I'm sure in on those discussions for the 3 extensions, Juice and Fisher. Hypothetically, they could pick an OL at every spot in the draft and still not get it right or God forbid sign a bunch of pricey OL guys in the offseason because of their poor evaluations.

I would love for them to fix it. I just don't know if they can. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope I'm VERY WRONG.
 
Good post HOP!

I mentioned this somewhere, but the Texans have the 2nd highest amount of 2024 guaranteed money tied up to the o-line in the NFL. The Ravens have a pretty solid line right? 2nd to last in guaranteed money.

Then, I compared draft positions between the teams. This is going strictly by memory, but IIRC, the Ravens' average draft position for their starters was a late third, while the Texans' was a low first.

The point is that it's not where they are drafted; it's system/scheme fit, coaching, and finding the dawgs among the cuddly puppies in the litter.

I'd posit that scheme-wise, I'm not certain that any of the 5 we have are ideal. The coaching is clearly an issue regardless. And we have a litter of cuddly puppies but no junkyard dawgs, exacerbated by the fact that the lead guy is just a faster, bigger cuddly puppy. He's got no dawg in him at all. If the leader is a cuddly puppy, you won't find a dawg in that dawg house anywhere.

All of these issues can be rectified over the next 2-3 years, but—and this is important—can the Texans even identify the dawgs that fit the scheme and find the coaching to maximize their talent?

I have an open question. Just churning out guys who are the same as the guys you replace them with is a net zero.
 
I agree with Porky that there has to be an Alpha to set the chemistry then agility for pulling guards that love to wreck anybody in front of them. Opening holes up front while being able to pass block is a special kind and can be found in the 1-3 rounds. They can be trained to pull if thay can do those two things. When looking through our Practice team there are some interesting players that might be ready next year with the proper coaching. If they are on our develoment team then thay showed promise.
 
thunderkyss said:
Makes you wonder what them professional NFL coaches are seeing in practice that we don't see on game day.
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Just a couple of things on this…..

If I recall Patterson won the job last year and wasn’t horrible for a 6th rounder…but he wasn’t so good either that it was a no-brainer he be inserted back in as the starter over juice as soon as he was healthy. Dude broke his leg halfway thru the season…so the coaches did think somewhat highly enough of him to give him a shot as the starter straight outta camp. The problem however is the tape/results when he was the starter for those 7 games.

Perhaps the reasoning the coaches took so long to insert him back in as the starter is b/c we couldn’t run the ball for **** in the 7 games he did start..culminating in that travesty of a loss in Carolina when he went out. it wasn’t until after that & juice sliding over to center/guard & ……….Singletary becoming our de-facto starting RB that we started to get settled in the run game; all of the games Singletary rushed for over 100 & the running game looking solid came later on in the season..2 of which came pretty much immediately after Patterson went out in the Cincy and TB games.

And unlike this year, last year the coaches were also able to kick the Kenyon Green developmental conundrum down the road b/c he got hurt in PS. And so After 2 years in the league, they still didn’t know what they had in him. You add in Dieter also getting snaps at Center…..So coming into this year they had a bit of a log jam. You have Juice who has performed admirably & been reasonably solid moving between guard and center the last 2 years, this top 10 pick in which we think can be great for us in the run game..but he hasn’t been able to stay healthy…oh, and this 6th round guy we think highly of but hasn’t really shown a whole lot either. Of that group, who do u think was gonna get the benefit of the doubt and get most of the snaps in practice?
 
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Mr teX said:
Just a couple of things on this…..

If I recall Patterson won the job last year and wasn’t horrible for a 6th rounder…but he wasn’t so good either that it was a no-brainer he be inserted back in as the starter over juice as soon as he was healthy. Dude broke his leg halfway thru the season…so the coaches did think somewhat highly enough of him to give him a shot as the starter straight outta camp. The problem however is the tape/results when he was the starter for those 7 games.

Perhaps the reasoning the coaches took so long to insert him back in as the starter is b/c we couldn’t run the ball for **** in the 7 games he did start..culminating in that travesty of a loss in Carolina when he went out. it wasn’t until after that & juice sliding over to center/guard & ……….Singletary becoming our de-facto starting RB that we started to get settled in the run game; all of the games Singletary rushed for over 100 & the running game looking solid came later on in the season..2 of which came pretty much immediately after Patterson went out in the Cincy and TB games.

And unlike this year, last year the coaches were also able to kick the Kenyon Green developmental conundrum down the road b/c he got hurt in PS. And so After 2 years in the league, they still didn’t know what they had in him. You add in Dieter also getting snaps at Center…..So coming into this year they had a bit of a log jam. You have Juice who has performed admirably & been reasonably solid moving between guard and center the last 2 years, this top 10 pick in which we think can be great for us in the run game..but he hasn’t been able to stay healthy…oh, and this 6th round guy we think highly of but hasn’t really shown a whole lot either. Of that group, who do u think was gonna get the benefit of the doubt and get most of the snaps in practice?
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You think Scruggs has performed admirably and has solidly moved between Center and O guard the last two years?
Scruggs was drafted round two in trade up with Eagles to be the future and has failed. Patterson was selected round 6. Scruggs injured immediately and the round six guy started 7 IIRC until tibia drawing raves at how well he stepped up. Juice; Howard and Kenyon have been flunks. Mason not earning his check and Kendrick can't seem to get on field. Fisher has looked "okay" for rookie that hasn't been given many games snaps to adjust .
 
badboy said:
You think Scruggs has performed admirably and has solidly moved between Center and O guard the last two years?
Scruggs was drafted round two in trade up with Eagles to be the future and has failed. Patterson was selected round 6. Scruggs injured immediately and the round six guy started 7 IIRC until tibia drawing raves at how well he stepped up. Juice; Howard and Kenyon have been flunks. Mason not earning his check and Kendrick can't seem to get on field. Fisher has looked "okay" for rookie that hasn't been given many games snaps to adjust .
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Matter of opinion. To me He’s been solid more often than not. You’re just not gonna win every battle which is apparently what some of you guys seem to expect..; unrealistic. you guys also keep drawing in info that's pretty much irrelevant as it pertains to how they’ve performed on the field…fact is how they’re paid and where they were drafted doesn’t have anything to do with anything except for in the most specific of talks; this is not 1 of those talks. The goal is to get the best 5 on the field and Scruggs has definitely been 1 of their best 5 over these last 2 years if for no other reason, his versatility.

If Patterson was as great as you say from the get go for “stepping up” I feel fairly confident that the coaches would’ve inserted him back into the line up at center almost immediately once he was back healthy..not only was he not, he was put in at guard 1st before they slid him back over to center..probably b/c they figured he can’t play anywhere else. This is only his 2nd game back starting and the o-line, while improved hasn’t exactly been lights out. The bit of improvement they have made, sure u can give Patterson SOME credit…but you’ve also gotta give Scruggs some too for being versatile enough to be able to slide over and play guard and solidify it…at least solidify it more than Green was able to do.

That’s how I see it. Furthermore, there’s very little anyone can draw from Fisher’s limited snaps. But once again I feel like if he was head and shoulders better than Howard or Tunsil, I have no doubt the coaches would’ve inserted him into the starting lineup. What he is to fans is what the back up qb is; every fans favorite player…until he gets on the field and gets extended snaps and they see why he was on the bench in the 1st place. That’s not to say that I think he sucks or will suck once he does replace Howard…just that I’ll defer to the coaches evaluation of him who see him in practice every week.
 
Mr teX said:
Matter of opinion. To me He’s been solid more often than not. You’re just not gonna win every battle which is apparently what some of you guys seem to expect..; unrealistic. you guys also keep drawing in info that's pretty much irrelevant as it pertains to how they’ve performed on the field…fact is how they’re paid and where they were drafted doesn’t have anything to do with anything except for in the most specific of talks; this is not 1 of those talks. The goal is to get the best 5 on the field and Scruggs has definitely been 1 of their best 5 over these last 2 years if for no other reason, his versatility.

If Patterson was as great as you say from the get go for “stepping up” I feel fairly confident that the coaches would’ve inserted him back into the line up at center almost immediately once he was back healthy..not only was he not, he was put in at guard 1st before they slid him back over to center..probably b/c they figured he can’t play anywhere else. This is only his 2nd game back starting and the o-line, while improved hasn’t exactly been lights out. The bit of improvement they have made, sure u can give Patterson SOME credit…but you’ve also gotta give Scruggs some too for being versatile enough to be able to slide over and play guard and solidify it…at least solidify it more than Green was able to do.

That’s how I see it. Furthermore, there’s very little anyone can draw from Fisher’s limited snaps. But once again I feel like if he was head and shoulders better than Howard or Tunsil, I have no doubt the coaches would’ve inserted him into the starting lineup. What he is to fans is what the back up qb is; every fans favorite player…until he gets on the field and gets extended snaps and they see why he was on the bench in the 1st place. That’s not to say that I think he sucks or will suck once he does replace Howard…just that I’ll defer to the coaches evaluation of him who see him in practice every week.
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Patterson is a better LG than is Scruggs but since the latter was having difficulty setting the oline, Patterson had to move to center. Scruggs is not a guard despite opinions of some here. Putting a decent LG in and Patterson gets even better. Why aren't we seeing Kendrick Green?
 
badboy said:
Patterson is a better LG than is Scruggs but since the latter was having difficulty setting the oline, Patterson had to move to center. Scruggs is not a guard despite opinions of some here. Putting a decent LG in and Patterson gets even better. Why aren't we seeing Kendrick Green?
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How can u say this when Patterson only played 1 damn series at guard before being knocked out with a concussion? He wasn’t killing it either. Both guys literally weigh the same according to what’s on the website.

And you’re not seeing Green for a reason. I’ll just defer to the coaching staff and what they see from these guys.
 
Mr teX said:
How can u say this when Patterson only played 1 damn series at guard before being knocked out with a concussion? He wasn’t killing it either. Both guys literally weigh the same according to what’s on the website.

And you’re not seeing Green for a reason. I’ll just defer to the coaching staff and what they see from these guys.
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Watching Patterson play for 5 years plus his games this season. It really isn't difficult. He started LG his last season at ND. He never gave up a sack. One in NFL . Is Scruggs better than Kenyon? Sure but that's not saying much.
 
I’ve always liked the zone stuff, but that’s probably because it worked under Kubes and Gibbs. It’s clearly not working here.

They need to go in an entirely new direction next year. And not just the line, but the entire offensive concept and style. It’s completely broken here. Tinkering around with a broken toy won’t fix it.
 
Porky said:
I’ve always liked the zone stuff, but that’s probably because it worked under Kubes and Gibbs. It’s clearly not working here.

They need to go in an entirely new direction next year. And not just the line, but the entire offensive concept and style. It’s completely broken here. Tinkering around with a broken toy won’t fix it.
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Going to non-ZBS means replacing all but Fisher and Patterson. I am not saying it cannot be done but you better get significant picks for Tunsil and be willing to go with basically a rookie offensive line. That puts Stroud in a high risk scenario sort of like where he is already.
 
JRingo said:
Exactly why I want to go heavy on OL in the draft and free agency. Get some dawgs before anything else.
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Who would you like them to draft?

I'm hoping that Caserio adds one of Teller or Bitonio in FA and draft Milum in the 1st rd play him at LG and pick Grey Zabel to play C in the 3rd.
 
ghostlight said:
I would like to see us go with a true guard like Tyler Booker. I watched Tate Ratledge last night and he looked good however he has mostly played RG.
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Booker rotated at both guards his freshman season while starting 12 games at left guard in 2023 as sophomore. My concern is the smaller faster linebackers of NFL defenses will probably eat his lunch and pick school money from his back pocket. He has the skill set and the body type to eventually be a Pro Bowl left guard. The problem as I see it is the Texans don't have eventually. If he surprises me and could start within a couple of games of the season opener he would definitely be worth the pick in round 2. If Nick can see a way to trade up in round two and select him, I would be smiling.
Perfect scenario for me would be Wyatt Milum round one and then Booker round two. The latter can work his way in behind Milum at left guard and then start when Milum eventually replaces Tunsil. Heck, Booker might start day one at Right Guard over Shaq Mason.
 
So the experiment with Howard at LG didn’t look much different than any of the other iterations. If the Texans do anything….get Broeker in at RG the moment his hand is good enough for him to start. I just can’t understand the reluctance to start Broeker with the state of this OL. The writing is on the wall that both Howard and Mason will do the Texans more favors after June 1st when they’re released, so why not see if Broeker can be an OL answer this season and going forward.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
So the experiment with Howard at LG didn’t look much different than any of the other iterations. If the Texans do anything….get Broeker in at RG the moment his hand is good enough for him to start. I just can’t understand the reluctance to start Broeker with the state of this OL. The writing is on the wall that both Howard and Mason will do the Texans more favors after June 1st when they’re released, so why not see if Broeker can be an OL answer this season and going forward.
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The fact Broeker and Kendrick Green cannot get snaps when the offensive line is performing as bad as it has tells me they wont be in the team’s plans next season.

I want Tytus at LG and Fisher at RT rest of season. This will be the best OL configuration going forward. Tytus got beat on his share of plays but I atleast have hope he can clean up the great mystery of the IOL not picking up stunts with more reps at LG since he’s a vet.

Fisher needs the reps at RT now to prepare him to take over the starting job next season. I would plan on cutting Howard next season for cap savings.
 
TheRealJoker V2 said:
The fact Broeker and Kendrick Green cannot get snaps when the offensive line is performing as bad as it has tells me they wont be in the team’s plans next season.

I want Tytus at LG and Fisher at RT rest of season. This will be the best OL configuration going forward. Tytus got beat on his share of plays but I atleast have hope he can clean up the great mystery of the IOL not picking up stunts with more reps at LG since he’s a vet.

Fisher needs the reps at RT now to prepare him to take over the starting job next season. I would plan on cutting Howard next season for cap savings.
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Oh, Fisher locked himself up at RT for the foreseeable future.

I believe the only reason Green and Broeker have been retained but not played is the teams stubborn resistance in admitting they’ve made a mistake with some of the high end investments.
 
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