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Texans Offensive Line

OptimisticTexan said:
When me and my son were watching the game…I believe there are opportunities for CJ to show NFL defenses he has the legs to make them pay, but in the same vein I’m happy he’s keeping his eyes downfield…..but, I’d like to see him tuck the ball and take off. It could help him much in the same way it has helped Jackson. I know CJ isn’t the same running threat, but if he were to be considered a sneaky good runner that has the legs to move the sticks…..that could be just as impactful.
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Yeh, on the Texans first series, after the int, GB lined up with 8 players on the LOS. Only 3 rushed with 8 players dropping into coverage. Tunsil and Howard gave up pressure and Stroud stepped up to avoid, then threw an incompletion. He could have run for positive yards and maybe scored.
 
. I agree with Schultz not helping matters much. Starting Stover or at least giving him more snaps is another piece of the puzzle. Schultz is another guy that got paid and then rested on his laurels like Tunsil. At least Stover blocks like he gives a damn.

Mixon and Nico are the only two guys on offense that seem to give max effort, and are exceeding expectations. CJ is a given but I can’t say he’s exceeded expectations. However, that’s not all on him to say the least so he gets a pass.

This offense is atrocious in the second half of games. Six TD’s in seven games stinks.

Where to start with the o-line? I agree with Meco that everything is up for debate or change. But I’d start with the obvious - Strausser should have been fired yesterday. Why does he still have a job? I hope DeMeco isn’t falling into the Kubiak trap of hanging onto failing coaches because he likes them and is buddies with them. Friends are friends, and business is business. Hell you can even fire the guy and still be friends. It’s not personal - but you aren’t getting the job done, go see HR and empty out your desk.

I’d also look at LG, C, and possibly RT, but especially C. He makes the calls and assignments. Juice has a future but is it now? I’d insert Patterson. Not as physically gifted, but with him in there, I didn’t see as many mental errors.

We could also possibly look to swap out Green’s and see what effect that has.

Tunsil - we’re stuck with this stoner’s lazy ass. Paying him was a HUGE mistake by our vaunted GM. Probably wont happen, but I’d look to deal him this offseason and take whatever you can get. Addition by subtraction for me.
 
Number19 said:
I admittedly don't watch as much football as many of you do. But GB was occasionally lining up in a defensive formation I can't recall ever seeing before. They had 7 players on the LOS and 3 DBs lined up more as LBs only 4 yds off the LOS. 10 players lined up in a position to blitz or stunt.

Now, the coaches should have been aware of this possibility, but still, how often do the players come up against this and how much practice time/coaching do they have against it?

GBs defensive scheming was brilliantly executed.
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They quickly realized that our offensive line could not stop them so they did as they should have. It was a risk that Stroud could score deep but that didn't happen.
 
badboy said:
They quickly realized that our offensive line could not stop them so they did as they should have. It was a risk that Stroud could score deep but that didn't happen.
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Hey Badboy, I know you've begun to think about what needs to be done about our offensive line ... care to share any of your ideas? Do you see anyone on the line that DOESN"T need to be replaced ?
 
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I would experiment with Scruggs at left guard and Patterson at center.

Or Kendrick Green at left guard and keep Scruggs at center if they don’t want to make two moves.

Kenyon Green needs to take a seat on the bench and we need to see if that helps matters. You can’t trot out the same starting five with their performance. And he is the “weakest” link.
 
TheRealJoker V2 said:
I would experiment with Scruggs at left guard and Patterson at center.

Or Kendrick Green at left guard and keep Scruggs at center if they don’t want to make two moves.

Kenyon Green needs to take a seat on the bench and we need to see if that helps matters. You can’t trot out the same starting five with their performance. And he is the “weakest” link.
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He was also the weakest link last year by far. In fact… rated the -worst- guard in the NFL last year per his wiki page.
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Number19 said:
Won't do. I reviewed every passing play and I'll stand by my assessment unless you can be more specific.
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Don’t know what you’re watching, but I personally saw Green getting beat so quick on multiple plays run and pass, he may as well not have even been there. He’s ok in run blocking..a lot of Mixon’s yardage came on that right side right through his gap….but He just doesn’t move his feet in pass protection and or he’s just not fast enough period in his back pedaling and on recovering from help. The whiff block posted on the play above in the twitter link is a prime example.

There are so many times he winds up lost in the scheme. Go rewatch that 1st series out of halftime for us. 1st down he’s just flat out beat off the ball and blown up..Led to Mixon losing a 1/2 yard/no gain b/c his man made the play. 2nd down, Mixon plows through his hole for a nice gain…positive play for Green. 3rd and 4, he comes up empty in pass protection while Scruggs is engaged with 1 of the guys working his way towards Green. To Green’s left, Tunsil picks up the outside guy. Green who is between both? He’s blocking NOONE..just out there. And of course, 1 of the guys he could’ve/should’ve been blocking makes the sack on CJ……On a 3rd and 4 man…4 man rush. How do u come up with no one to block when u have the numbers?
 
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justmy2cents said:
I hope they don't let our current studs grow old before they start bringing in athletes !
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NitroGSXR said:
He was also the weakest link last year by far. In fact… rated the -worst- guard in the NFL last year per his wiki page.
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Casserio has made some really good picks, and some of them have also been excellent values led perhaps by drafting WR Nico Collins in the third round.
But using a mid first round pick on Kenyon Green was a major whiff who has been nothing but a big disappointment.
It would be best for the team and our franchise QBs health and safety if both the HC & GM would acknowledge this and just move on.
 
www.espn.com

Texans left looking for answers as hits on C.J. Stroud become a troubling trend

Stroud has been hit 60 times in seven games, which has contributed to the struggles of Houston's passing game.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
"It has to get fixed," Ryans said. "I know how we're coaching it and what we're asking to be done, and it's just not showing up on the tape. It's not just one person, it's the entire thing. So it's just the entire offense from top to the bottom. We have to get it cleaned up."
It's been a season-long theme for the Texans (5-2). Stroud has the third-most pressured dropbacks (102) in the NFL, and he's been sacked 20 times, tied for third most.
Third downs are when the Texans' blocking regresses the most, as Stroud has been sacked 10 times (tied for second most), been pressured 46 times -- 10 more than the next quarterback -- with the time to pressure being 2.39 (third quickest).

Still, Stroud has the most first downs on third downs (31) as the Texans are 14th in third-down conversion (40%).
"We have a lot of things to clean up when it comes to our protection, and it's everyone involved -- O-line, tight ends, backs. It's everybody working together, being on the same page and just getting it done," Ryans said. "We've had multiple weeks where the same things have hurt us multiple times, so we have to get it fixed, starting with the coaches and down to the players on finishing and executing."

The Colts have generated pressure on 28% of drop backs (third fewest) this season, but in Week 1 against the Texans, they sacked Stroud four times.

"We understand we'll see some of those same looks, some of the exotic looks that their front gave us for our offensive line. We just have to communicate better and just anticipate better," Ryans said after the Week 1 win. "We've got to put on film that we can handle that and handle it properly. Although we were really good in the run game, the pass protection has to step up. There's too many times where someone touched the quarterback, our quarterback yesterday, it just can't happen."
 
Mr teX said:
Don’t know what you’re watching, but I personally saw Green getting beat so quick on multiple plays run and pass, he may as well not have even been there. He’s ok in run blocking..a lot of Mixon’s yardage came on that right side right through his gap….but He just doesn’t move his feet in pass protection and or he’s just not fast enough period in his back pedaling and on recovering from help. The whiff block posted on the play above in the twitter link is a prime example.

There are so many times he winds up lost in the scheme. Go rewatch that 1st series out of halftime for us. 1st down he’s just flat out beat off the ball and blown up..Led to Mixon losing a 1/2 yard/no gain b/c his man made the play. 2nd down, Mixon plows through his hole for a nice gain…positive play for Green. 3rd and 4, he comes up empty in pass protection while Scruggs is engaged with 1 of the guys working his way towards Green. To Green’s left, Tunsil picks up the outside guy. Green who is between both? He’s blocking NOONE..just out there. And of course, 1 of the guys he could’ve/should’ve been blocking makes the sack on CJ……On a 3rd and 4 man…4 man rush. How do u come up with no one to block when u have the numbers?
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Makes you wonder what the coaches are looking at during practice. & Caserio too. He's at practice too isn't he? Surely he goes over game tape with DeMeco.
 
thunderkyss said:
Makes you wonder what the coaches are looking at during practice. & Caserio too. He's at practice too isn't he? Surely he goes over game tape with DeMeco.
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I think what it comes down to is he’s a 1st round pick and is being given every chance to succeed. He also missed a bunch of time last year so they’re still holding out hope that he’ll be able to get it together. The way he looks now tho…I have a real hard time seeing it.
 
justmy2cents said:
I just happened to listen to a brief segment of KILT tonight. Seth Payne talks to Clint Stoerner. Said he had an image in his mind. Had to rewatch the game to see if there was any evidence of his theory. He called the show to affirm. Idea hit him sometime today. He said the line had a virus .... and they got it from their leader. I watch the line too much. I've quit watching it - 1) I get angry 2) I miss too much of the game. Payne said they were all taking their cues from Tunsil (he dogs it) - goes through the motions to get in his guy's way a little, but no serious contact .... he's making so much money, he constantly thinking "longevity"! The rest of the linemen follow his lead .... they're doggin' it too ! Payne (Cornell Graduate), says it's like they've all got the flu ! You know how in bowling, the ball hits the pocket perfectly, and all the pins are in the air at the same time .... football lines occasionally resemble that .... or used to. When they do, you usually see a back run for 50 yards. I don't remember the last time I've seen a defensive front - blown back by us ! Demeco said he was going to get it fixed by next week .... he's gonna tell'em "Okay guys .... quit GoldBrickin' .... or that's what they used to tell us !
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I moved this over here because it seemed relevant.

The crazy part of this is we got Tunsil’s best years in years in one of Watson and then a lot of years with Mills. Now with Stroud and a team that has the potential to go to the AFC Championship Game at a minimum this dude wants to half ass it.

Trade him for another LT. If we have to eat the contract than whatever. His attitude is hurting the Oline effort and QB health that results in loses.

The Oline is the only part of the team that doesn't have the SWARM mentality. And that falls on Tunsil, the Oline Coach, and Slowik. And then ultimately - Demeco.
 
Number19 said:
Won't do. I reviewed every passing play and I'll stand by my assessment unless you can be more specific.
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I'd love to see your breakdown because I'm guessing you're not counting for slides and actual protection calls.

I'm baffled how you could come to your overall assessment.
 
cland said:
What baffles me is the comparison to last year. We had 3 2nd stringers and a 3rd stringer starting against the Steelers and they looked much better than the performance against the Packers. The rest of the season we had a mismatch of players due to injury, but CJ was never as hurried/harassed as he was against the Packers/Vikings. Unless the line makes an immediate comeback, I'm firing OL coach Chris Strausser as soon as I can find a replacement.
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It's very much schematic though. Pittsburgh didn't do what we've been struggling against. The o-line doesn't always perform poorly they simply perform poorly against very specific things. Things that the Ravens and Vikings normally do and then Greenbay adapted to take advantage of.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Food for thought….after 7 weeks, every NFL DC has seen the film and concluded, the Texans OL has “zero” ability to diagnose and prevent the success of defensive stunts. What does this mean? Texans OL will see an onslaught of loaded boxes and stunts for the next 10 games. What does this mean? Maybe that’s as far as the season goes.
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It's also massively up throughout the league. Not properly picking up stunts is a seeming epidemic for a lot of teams right now for some reason.
 
Texansballer74 said:
They’re not going all out and most of the veterans are not practicing.
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Yeah veterans not practicing is definitely a factor but I'm not sure going all out is. It's a picking up movement drill not a driving a guy into dirt drill. Going all out shouldn't really affect it.

Also just a reading a d-line drill. If two DTs are knifing or slanting one direction expect the DE from the side they're knifing towards to be looping back around.
 
TexansBull said:
The Oline is the only part of the team that doesn't have the SWARM mentality. And that falls on Tunsil, the Oline Coach, and Slowik. And then ultimately - Demeco.
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Hasn't Caserio been responsible for signing, drafting these players?
 
Lucky said:
Hasn't Caserio been responsible for signing, drafting these players?
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Good point.

You can say 3 out of the 5 (Tunsil, Green and Howard) were Caserio w/o Ryan’s and the rest have been signed and drafted with Ryans input. I would assume that Ryans would have some say on the players traded for (Mason) and the players drafted (Scruggs, Patterson, and others.)

I would assume that Ryans is not starting players that don’t fit his system or his coaches just because of where the player was drafted. Or their contract.

And I would assume that player(s) with proven talent like Tunsil could be made to fit the system. Essentially if there is talent Demeco is a good enough coach or has good enough coaches to extrapolate the talent out of the guys.

And if they don’t (Green, Howard and Tunsil) or he can’t then they should be replaced. They being the players or the coaching staff. Not Demeco.

But that’s a lot of assuming.
 
Sweech said:
But I just can't see how so many teams aren't practicing this.

We practiced against it for months in training camp.
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The stunts themselves is one thing but that amoeba front complicates it. Then it was loud as...

Speaking of which I've never seen so much white in the stands at NRG as we saw at soldier field. Their fans really bought in to their liberty white theme.
 
Sweech said:
I'd love to see your breakdown because I'm guessing you're not counting for slides and actual protection calls.

I'm baffled how you could come to your overall assessment.
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I was looking only at the in your face pressure and sacks. Which player(s) allowed the defensive rusher to force the play. The players I flagged were the ones most responsible for Stroud not having that extra bit of time to maybe make a play. I think most are evaluating overall play. I was more narrowly focused. I agree our OL play, overall,, needs to be better, but given that extra split second, Stroud would have been more effective and not had the game he had.
 
Number19 said:
I was looking only at the in your face pressure and sacks. Which player(s) allowed the defensive rusher to force the play. The players I flagged were the ones most responsible for Stroud not having that extra bit of time to maybe make a play. I think most are evaluating overall play. I was more narrowly focused. I agree our OL play, overall,, needs to be better, but given that extra split second, Stroud would have been more effective and not had the game he had.
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But wouldn't this be largely influenced by interpretation of drops? QB takes a 5 or 7 step drop and by your theory the tackles are always at fault because he's theoretically hurried from the edge.
 
Sweech said:
But wouldn't this be largely influenced by interpretation of drops? QB takes a 5 or 7 step drop and by your theory the tackles are always at fault because he's theoretically hurried from the edge.
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Yes, maybe. I looked at the play as executed.

Wholesale changes are unlikely at this stage of the season. Teams are hamstrung by the collective bargaining agreement governing limited practices. The coaches could try to shake things up by starting different players, as has been discussed, but I haven't seen the inclination to take this approach. I believe what we fans will see are changes in Slowick's game planning, if this continues to be a problem.
 
TexansBull said:
I never thought of it that way. So easy. So simplistic.

Nick Caserio drafted Kenyon Green.

Nick Caserio drafted CJ Stroud.

And Stingley.

And Collins.

And WAJr.

And Dell.

And Lassiter.

And Bullock.

And ToTo.

The list goes on and on. The dude has more home runs and hits than misses.
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It's his record.
 
TexansBull said:
I never thought of it that way. So easy. So simplistic.

Nick Caserio drafted Kenyon Green.

Nick Caserio drafted CJ Stroud.

And Stingley.

And Collins.

And WAJr.

And Dell.

And Lassiter.

And Bullock.

And ToTo.

The list goes on and on. The dude has more home runs and hits than misses.
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Obviously correct ! But, if I were he, I would try to move on, as quickly as possible, from my failures. To me, Green is the perfect example. Every year we put it off, the whole team gets a year older ! I see three positions on the oline that desperately need upgrade. And the other 2 are 10 and 9 year veterans.
 
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Porky said:
Here’s another elephant in the room. George Fant was a better RT last year than Howard is this year. Casserole resigned the wrong guy.
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At first, Casserole was a typo, but I liked it so much that I will keep it. It fits the chef's theme as well. Let the Casserole cook! Or maybe the Casserole is baked!
 
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