McNair said get a QB. Not go out and get the worst QB you can find and pay him $16 million/year. He let the football guys choose.
Football guys make mistakes, too.
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Texans Offensive Line
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Football guys make mistakes, too.
What if the owner tells you to find a QB and there's not one you like?
You get the one you like the best and hope this doesn't ruin your career.
That's when you fire the football guys and get ones that can do the job.
You fire the GM because the yr the owner mandates a QB is a bad QB class? Cant make chicken salad out of chicken bleep.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
You do if said GM has been with the team for years and failed to deliver a QB.
No, you fire the GM for going 10 years + without drafting a QB of note
No, no, no. The story is Hannah and Janice said pick C.J., not just anybody. And the football guys didn't want him.
What is the truth? All I see are the goal posts moving.
'This is an either/or. The football guys didn't know what they were doing and were forced to take C.J.
Or
Drafting Stroud was the football guys plan all along.
You really think Hannah scouted Stroud and said Stroud's my guy?No, no, no. The story is Hannah and Janice said pick C.J., not anybody.
What is the truth? All I see are the goal posts moving.
If so she needs to start scouting DT's and Edges.
jradMIT
Veteran
No, I don't. I think that the Hannah, Janice, fan council conspiracy theory is full of baloney. I'm just trying to keep your story straight.
Believe what you want, I've been consistent from the beginning.
Except previously you were insisting that Hannah and the fan council drafted Stroud. Insisted that Stroud be the QB
Consistent with how the way the pick was made
Sorry, I really didn't want to pile on, but you walked into that one.
Also consistent in I'm pleasantly surprised by how well Stroud has performed through 5 games. Also consistent in the facts that I don't like the person or the people who represent him or the people he looks up too.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
The man who had the inside information (who it was is anybody’s guess) on selecting Stroud #2 Anderson #3 but everybody, including DJ underestimated just how good CJ Stroud could be expect Bobby Slowick the QB guru and his future OC.
No doubt, he was the single most important influencer in this selection. When they met & interviewed CJ that pretty much cemented his selection. One thing that really sells me, is how genuine a prospect is and when tape matches up everything aligns.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You know….Hannah could’ve been on the Will Levis bandwagon and demanded they draft Cal’s bedroom substitute instead of Stroud.
Instead, she apparently utilized her football eyes and rationale in “demanding” the team select Stroud instead.
An even bigger mistake….having the #1 pick and being coerced by media pressure to select Young. Big bullet avoided on that one.
Bottom-line, it didn’t take a brain surgeon to make the correct selection at #2. It was an organizational pick followed up by an organizational trade that landed Will Anderson, Jr.
Anyone who thinks any one person in the Texans hierarchy made the sole selection, with no consultation of the rest of the round table, might be dreaming as to how they’d justify their agenda.
Instead, she apparently utilized her football eyes and rationale in “demanding” the team select Stroud instead.
An even bigger mistake….having the #1 pick and being coerced by media pressure to select Young. Big bullet avoided on that one.
Bottom-line, it didn’t take a brain surgeon to make the correct selection at #2. It was an organizational pick followed up by an organizational trade that landed Will Anderson, Jr.
Anyone who thinks any one person in the Texans hierarchy made the sole selection, with no consultation of the rest of the round table, might be dreaming as to how they’d justify their agenda.
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Just an observation.
As I had suspected, the opponent's DC may throw some 3-man rush and pulling back 8 guys to defend the pass.
The Falcons did it about 8 times, according to my count.
Stroud had no problem with it, but he wasn't highly successful either.
Part of the problem was the line, who still got beat a bit too quickly a couple of times.
I would need to go back and look at the situations more closely, but in short, Stroud did not have a problem with that scheme.
Whether he can do better will require some closer looks.
As I had suspected, the opponent's DC may throw some 3-man rush and pulling back 8 guys to defend the pass.
The Falcons did it about 8 times, according to my count.
Stroud had no problem with it, but he wasn't highly successful either.
Part of the problem was the line, who still got beat a bit too quickly a couple of times.
I would need to go back and look at the situations more closely, but in short, Stroud did not have a problem with that scheme.
Whether he can do better will require some closer looks.
We all know the biggest factor in the Texans decision to take CJ was the Panthers decision to take Bryce Young leaving CJ the most appealing remaining prospect on our Board,assuming OpTex was mistaken about Hanah's sentiments for Will Levis: right up to the Draft the Texans wanted BY as I recall but then they got lucky.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Sure looks like Jones has a club on his right hand to me
I dont know which mod deleted the back and forth idiocy. But thanks.
I'm willing to debate anybody on this MB, but if somebody is going to claim something I said, they need back it up with proof, so fallacy doesn't become fact.
I'm willing to debate anybody on this MB, but if somebody is going to claim something I said, they need back it up with proof, so fallacy doesn't become fact.
Number19
Hall of Fame
In our ZBS, which position is more important to generate a successful run game, the Guards or the Center? Or is there no difference?
The reason I ask, Patterson's play, as measured by his stats, is barely acceptable. So, when Scruggs comes back, where should he be played, assuming Howard goes back to RT.
I'd want the better player at Guard and right now, I'm changing my mind and leaning toward Scruggs at LG, at least to start and until we get an idea how well he does at that position. Based on TC we know he's likely the better player at Center.
The reason I ask, Patterson's play, as measured by his stats, is barely acceptable. So, when Scruggs comes back, where should he be played, assuming Howard goes back to RT.
I'd want the better player at Guard and right now, I'm changing my mind and leaning toward Scruggs at LG, at least to start and until we get an idea how well he does at that position. Based on TC we know he's likely the better player at Center.
badboy
Hall of Fame
if as you say Patterson is barely acceptable at center [I disagree] and most seem to think Scruggs is better center even coming off injury and Patterson did really well at OG in college, I don't get you wanting to place Scruggs at LG?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Patterson hasn’t exactly had any help at LG, yet his play has been good. Between Scruggs and Patterson, Juice is probably the better athlete, so I’d use the bye to prepare Juice for LG and keep Patterson at center. At least it would get two guys on the OL who enjoy the physicality of the run game.
Number19
Hall of Fame
OK, you encourage me to do a little research on their college grades.
Both Patterson and Scruggs had better grades at Center than they did at LG (Patterson) and RG (Scruggs). Patterson graded better than Scruggs.
But Patterson performed significantly better at LG than Scruggs performed at RG.
...........overall.......rb..........pb
Patterson
(LG).....70.5.......73.4........70.3
Scruggs
(RG).......67.5.......66.4........68.2
Patterson (C)......79.7.......85.4........82.7
Scruggs (C)........71.5.......73.6........69.9
To get an idea how they graded against quality opponents, I dug a bit deeper.
Patterson
2022 (LG).........overall......rb.........pb
.....Stanford.......49.6......85.7.......45.0
.....N.Carolina.....69.2......80.1.......67.0
.....USC.............59.8......71.3.......55.9
2021 (C)
.....Stanford.......69.7......79.3.......68.8
.....N.Carolina.....73.6......68.6.......73.9
.....USC.............81.0......77.3.......76.2
Scruggs
2021 (RG)
.....Ohio State.....62.1......57.6.......62.5
.....Auburn.........55.9......86.5.......48.6
.....Michigan.......69.7......80.8.......64.2
2022 (C)
.....Ohio State.....62.4......83.7.......54.7
.....Auburn.........71.3......83.5.......66.2
.....Michigan.......65.7......62.1.......70.9
So bottom line, I'd keep Scruggs at C because thats his stronger position. And move Patterson to Guard because he seems stronger at that position than Scruggs.
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Number19
Hall of Fame
Really, it's pretty much a coin flip.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yep
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
100% agree, except Patterson is the one with (6) pretty solid starts at center this season. Zero sacks given up even dispels his low PB grades. He’s had (6) games as Stroud’s starting center and the continuity would certainly benefit Stroud versus putting Scruggs in there for GM7.
At this juncture…..it would be better to insert Juice at LG so he has the benefits of Tunsil and Patterson on both sides. I’ve got a feeling the run game will be better for it. Take the bye-week and get Juice ready to man the LG spot.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Scruggs can't practice until he's released from IR. Yesterday I kept my eye on Texans news and nothing. Don't know the practice schedule for this off week, but for Scruggs, he needs to be released asap to take advantage. We'll need to watch the news to see if it happens.
They won't be practicing this week so don't expect to see anything too soon
Number19
Hall of Fame
Just a little miscellaneous info going into the bye. I got curious how Patterson was grading compared to the rest of the league. I filtered for a minimum of 222 snaps. Patterson has 410, typical for Centers who have played 6 games.
Patterson ranks 20th with a grade of 60.1. His pass blocking ranking is #17 with a grade of 56.6. Run blocking has a grade of 61.7 to rank #23. Only a few rookie Centers have playing time, but Patterson is the top ranked rookie Center.
Patterson ranks 20th with a grade of 60.1. His pass blocking ranking is #17 with a grade of 56.6. Run blocking has a grade of 61.7 to rank #23. Only a few rookie Centers have playing time, but Patterson is the top ranked rookie Center.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Out of curiosity why would the Texans state a preference for Bryce, or any QB if they were not picking at 1? Why drive the price up for a trade up? NC is known to not say anything before a draft. If they really wanted him they certainly showed no unwillingness otherwise to trade up into the first round to get another player they really wanted.
I was thinking that most of the talk round the Texans in wake of the Bears-Panthers trade was that they were hopeful that Carolina would take CJ leaving BY available, but I dunno maybe I'm mistaken ?
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
i could be also. It just seems to me that if they felt strongly that Bryce was their guy they would have made it happen before the Panthers did. They had the ammo and the need for an “NFL ready Qb” with the right image following the DW thing. Maybe they were just saving ammo for the plan to trade up for WA and touting Bryce was a rouse because CJ has already said he had a great interview with the Texans. I’ll wait for the book.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Hannah is writing a book? Why not, I guess.
"How I got rid of Jack Easterby and became the new Sherriff in H'town".
A lot of Twitter and sports radio folk seem really eager to get Howard back to RT. Don’t get me wrong I’d like to get him there too but I think people are missing the forest for the trees.
First off Fant has been good at RT and hasn’t given up a sack since week 2. He’s not been perfect don’t get me wrong, there have been mistakes in the run game but it’s not like Howard is some elite level run blocker. I just don’t see Howard as some massive upgrade from Fant just based on how Fant has played this year.
Then you go over to the guard spot and Howard has been fine these last 2 games. Given up 2 pressures and no sacks. His run blocking hasn’t been great but again his run blocking isn’t great at RT either! If you look at his backup which right now would be Josh Jones he played guard against the Ravens and gave up 5 pressures and was not good at run blocking.
Moving Tytus to right tackle right now without getting Scruggs back gives you a mild boost at RT and a significant downgrade at LG. It just seems like a net negative to me and I think people are being a bit narrow minded with this “get Tytus back to tackle at all costs” mindset
First off Fant has been good at RT and hasn’t given up a sack since week 2. He’s not been perfect don’t get me wrong, there have been mistakes in the run game but it’s not like Howard is some elite level run blocker. I just don’t see Howard as some massive upgrade from Fant just based on how Fant has played this year.
Then you go over to the guard spot and Howard has been fine these last 2 games. Given up 2 pressures and no sacks. His run blocking hasn’t been great but again his run blocking isn’t great at RT either! If you look at his backup which right now would be Josh Jones he played guard against the Ravens and gave up 5 pressures and was not good at run blocking.
Moving Tytus to right tackle right now without getting Scruggs back gives you a mild boost at RT and a significant downgrade at LG. It just seems like a net negative to me and I think people are being a bit narrow minded with this “get Tytus back to tackle at all costs” mindset
I also think this is tied back to us overrating Howard a bit as a collective fanbase. He's a good player but I think we overpaid for him. He's above average but closer to average than elite.
I actually don't mind so much that we overpaid for him given that for the length of his new contract most of this teams talent will be on rookie deals. But outside of salary cap discussions I think the contract has inflated some of this fanbases opinions on him.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Tytus should, and I think will, stay at LG until Scruggs' return. Ryans said earlier this week that Scruggs' return will be evaluated next week. If this goes well, the soonest he would return to play would likely be Cincinnati, and more likely Arizonia or Jacksonville.
I'm just projecting, but he'll likely slide back into the Center position, if, a big if, he shows the potential to be an upgrade over Patterson. Patterson would move to LG, allowing Tytus to move back to RT. We essentially would be back tracking to pre-season, to determine the best fit for these three and Fant.
But everything is on hold until Scruggs is back and in playing shape.
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TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
The best asset he has is true versatility. He can be a solid starter at four positions on the OL. Which is extremely rare in the league. For that, he is paid just fine depending on which leak he’s plugging (underpaid for starting LT, overpaid for starting LG).
Number19
Hall of Fame
With Patterson out for the season, he needs to go on IR.
Jimmy Morrissey needs to be signed to the 53 to replace Patterson.
Hopefully we'll have a positive report when they evaluate Scruggs this week and he'll be released from IR. With Scruggs return, when it happens and he's fit to start, he should slide into starting C.
Listening to 610 this morning, they didn't have a good opinion on Howard's play at LG. My opinion is that LG needs addressing. So what are our options?
Josh Jones and Howard have shown they aren't cutting it. With the ineffectiveness of our ol play, we have little to lose by trying something else.
Who I'd try is Deiter at LG. Coming out of Wisconsin, his primary starting position was LG. But he had the versatility to play C and T, and was moved to start at these positions on occasion when injuries required it.
Morrissey would be the primary backup at C behind Scruggs. He would start until Scruggs is ready.
Howard would move back to RT and would battle George Fant for the starting role.
So my starting lineup going into the second half of the season would be:
Tunsil, Deiter, Scruggs, Mason, Howard
Jimmy Morrissey needs to be signed to the 53 to replace Patterson.
Hopefully we'll have a positive report when they evaluate Scruggs this week and he'll be released from IR. With Scruggs return, when it happens and he's fit to start, he should slide into starting C.
Listening to 610 this morning, they didn't have a good opinion on Howard's play at LG. My opinion is that LG needs addressing. So what are our options?
Josh Jones and Howard have shown they aren't cutting it. With the ineffectiveness of our ol play, we have little to lose by trying something else.
Who I'd try is Deiter at LG. Coming out of Wisconsin, his primary starting position was LG. But he had the versatility to play C and T, and was moved to start at these positions on occasion when injuries required it.
Morrissey would be the primary backup at C behind Scruggs. He would start until Scruggs is ready.
Howard would move back to RT and would battle George Fant for the starting role.
So my starting lineup going into the second half of the season would be:
Tunsil, Deiter, Scruggs, Mason, Howard
Porky
Hall of Fame
I’m definitely onboard with Tytus back at RT. He is barely avg at lg, and that’s a bit kind. At RT he is rock solid and while maybe not elite…quite good. That’s his spot. Put him there. Leave him there. End of story.
as far as LG, I guess I’d have a competition between Jones and Deiter. Neither one is any great shakes, but you can cover up a so-so LG easier than at tackle.
none of these guys are the physical dominant type who is going to impose his will. But I was thinking back to the Kubes era. Those guys were also finesse types in general, yet he often had a good to excellent run game. Part of that was findinga diamond in the rough in Foster.
in summary…they have to design it better, call it better, block it better, and run it better. There is no one single issue plaguing the Texans run game. That said, if I could only change one of these…it would be the RB position. I see too many times where yards are being left on the field.
as far as LG, I guess I’d have a competition between Jones and Deiter. Neither one is any great shakes, but you can cover up a so-so LG easier than at tackle.
none of these guys are the physical dominant type who is going to impose his will. But I was thinking back to the Kubes era. Those guys were also finesse types in general, yet he often had a good to excellent run game. Part of that was findinga diamond in the rough in Foster.
in summary…they have to design it better, call it better, block it better, and run it better. There is no one single issue plaguing the Texans run game. That said, if I could only change one of these…it would be the RB position. I see too many times where yards are being left on the field.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Agree about RB. In another thread I suggested a shakeup at the position with Boone getting more snaps. I'd go farther and say he should be #1, which I think is your opinion as well.
Shake up the OL and the RB positions.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I believe almost everyone is in agreement that Howard should be moved back to RT.
But I just don't understand those who would move Josh Jones to LG.
At Houston, Jones played exclusively at LT. Drafted by Arizonia in 2020, he played 8 games at LT and one game at RT. In 2021, Arizonia "experimented" with Jones at RG for 11 games. It didn't work out, and in 2022 they moved him back to LT for 12 games, and RT for one game, where he had a pretty good season. He commented that it felt more natural back at tackle.
I just don't get playing a player out of position.
I don't know what's up with Deiter. Why he hasn't been playing. But he is a LG who does have the versatility to play Center. He's the player on the roster who should be given the next shot at LG.
The same for Broeker. Don't know why he's not being given any snaps. On the roster be's listed as backup to Mason at RG. I wouldn't mind seeing him given a shot at LG.
Unless we trade for someone in the next 24 hours, we don't have a lot of choices. But I don't like Howard and Jones, both tackles, being moved to LG.
But I just don't understand those who would move Josh Jones to LG.
At Houston, Jones played exclusively at LT. Drafted by Arizonia in 2020, he played 8 games at LT and one game at RT. In 2021, Arizonia "experimented" with Jones at RG for 11 games. It didn't work out, and in 2022 they moved him back to LT for 12 games, and RT for one game, where he had a pretty good season. He commented that it felt more natural back at tackle.
I just don't get playing a player out of position.
I don't know what's up with Deiter. Why he hasn't been playing. But he is a LG who does have the versatility to play Center. He's the player on the roster who should be given the next shot at LG.
The same for Broeker. Don't know why he's not being given any snaps. On the roster be's listed as backup to Mason at RG. I wouldn't mind seeing him given a shot at LG.
Unless we trade for someone in the next 24 hours, we don't have a lot of choices. But I don't like Howard and Jones, both tackles, being moved to LG.
What's the difference between a Guard & a tackle?