I hate it. You're banking Stroud's future on an unknown draft pick. Tunsil ain't great this year but is still considered one of the best LT's in the game. Read this earlier:
link
Plus you're giving up way too much for way too little
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Texans Offensive Line
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Plus you're giving up way too much for way too little
Number19
Hall of Fame
Heard Ryans repeat today (interview yesterday I believe) that they're going to play the 5 best OLmen.
Bull crap. Based on what?
Howard may fit this description at RT, but at LG he's the worst player on our OL, based on his PFF grades. This last game he graded 44.8 on pass blocking and 45.3 on run blocking.
Broeker did not go through TC. Until they give him snaps in a game, they can't possibly know how he will perform under game conditions. It would be difficult to perform worst than Howard.
They're playing Howard not because he's the best but because they're paying him as a starter.
Bull crap. Based on what?
Howard may fit this description at RT, but at LG he's the worst player on our OL, based on his PFF grades. This last game he graded 44.8 on pass blocking and 45.3 on run blocking.
Broeker did not go through TC. Until they give him snaps in a game, they can't possibly know how he will perform under game conditions. It would be difficult to perform worst than Howard.
They're playing Howard not because he's the best but because they're paying him as a starter.
I don't think they go by PFF grades
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I’ll be clear….Tunsil hasn’t lived up to his billing nor cost since his arrival. Tunsil’s not a mauler, he’s a hugger and a pusher. Not to mention, he has a penchant for debilitating hangnails and ill-timed false starts. If somehow the Patriots could be as blind as the Texans and were willing to include their RD1 pick in a package for Tunsil…..I couldn’t get the deal done fast enough. I’d be okay with Tunsil becoming the Patriots All Pro LT.
As for Alt…..he’s going to make some NFL team very happy. This guy has that trench mental attitude to be a tough as nails run blocker and an even better blind-side protector. Yeah, I’d roll the dice on some new LT blood before giving Tunsil another over inflated paycheck.
I sure am happy you're not in the Texans front office
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You'd have Stroud out od the league or Carr'ed inside of his rookie contract
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The Patriots would not make this trade. Nor any team with a high pick. A Tunsil trading partner would be a playoff team with cap space looking for a LT as their last piece to get to the top.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Patriots would be without a LT at seasons end since Trent Brown becomes a FA. Belichick was prepared to draft Davis Mills had the Texans not pulled the trigger. I’m guessing they’re not sold on Billy Zappe. Adding WR, Metchie could give them another weapon for whoever is under center. If the Texans were to draft another WR, they’d need to make room on the roster and unfortunately that would probably push Metchie out. My guess, Noah Brown would have a big desire to stay with the Texans and Stroud.
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Which is why they may look at a LT in the draft.
I'm sure they do.
Still I'm not sure PFF is painting a complete picture. At least not clear enough to be making decisions about who should/shouldn't start.
What was Broeker's PFF grade?
The coaches "know" more, have more information than the PFF guys.
Number19
Hall of Fame
You and JB are off track. I never said the Texans should, or do, use PFF. PFF is a grading tool that I use. I'm not set up to break down film, nor do I have experience to do so. PFF is the grading system I use.
If you subtract the 10 yds Stroud had and the 12 yds Hutch had on his sweep, the Texans had 31 yards rushing against the Bucs.
If PFF is not your choice for assessing and grading this pathetic showing, how do you grade the performance of our five OL starters? Who do you think is our worst performer among these five?
That is up to the coaching staff to determine. It's difficult for them as the options are limited due to injuries and there's not a lot of time midseason to make big changes. Pathetic is a strong word, but accurate in this case. All we can hope for is some consistency in the lineup and improvement from working together.
Texansballer74
The Marine
To me it seems like there’s a lot of miscommunication going on in the running game. The offensive line is missing a lot of their blocking responsibilities. They’re also getting worked, meaning they’re just not winning their share in the trenches in run pro. I’m not even seeing them get to the next level.
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Number19
Hall of Fame
I agree there's not a lot of options mid-season. But there is one, and that is a change at LG. The question up for discussion among us fans is whether Tytus is our best choice or should Broeker be given an opportunity.
So far the Texans have shown they are going to live or die with Tytus.
When Scruggs is finally cleared to play, this will all change again. I wonder how long the Texans will stick with Howard.
They seem to be coming off the ball like their doing pass pro and not firing off the line and winning the LOS. It's like they are all much weaker than the DL they are facing
I agree Tytus is playing poorly in the run game at LG. But he plays poorly in the run game at RT also. And Fant and Mason are also playing poorly in the run game. So where can a RB pick up yards? Outside zone on a pitch? Anything else?
Technically I didn't say you did... but, semantics right?
I'm with you, they can't possibly know. But I'm sure there are indicators they are seeing in practice. At least I hope there are.
Like you I'm not skilled in OL performance. I don't have the time to watch & rewatch our running plays (there was a time when I did try... many moons ago). But I watch in game & try to find something obvious.
But it's quick. I can't see everything. I think Mason is the only one who consistently actively look to put a body on someone. The others seem to wait for someone to come to them, or they're content with getting in someone's way. Four out of five of them play that way, more than that really when you consider the turnover we've had.
If I had to guess, it's being coached that way, or at least not coached to put a body on a body. Doesn't make sense. But neither does all the players "doing the same thing" that is not effective in the run game.
I've also noticed in many other areas what PFF says does not jive with what I'm seeing. Sometimes it does. Most of the time, not so much. I don't think they're useless, but they're not a big part of my opinion forming process.
I wonder when Heck becomes an option at RT?
You're right, we've seen network analysts point that out during games. Just speaks to the lack of continuity on the O-Line, be it playing together or playing out of position. It's really incredible that this team is .500 with all that has happened.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I believe the Texans have the makings of a very good zone blocking interior OL once all the pieces are healthy.
My concern is with the Tackles who’ve been heavily invested in. They’re both finesse pass pro guys who just have zero tenacity in the run game. The sad part, even I was thinking the ZBS would somehow hide their weakness in the run game…..I was sorely wrong.
The biggest question….could either guy eventually be solid performers as run game blockers? To date, neither have really shown run blocking as a trait. Maybe more time in the new scheme is needed and stronger run blockers on the inside. Maybe this combo could make a difference:
LT- Tunsil
LG- Scruggs (Once healthy, let him finish the season at LG. His athleticism could be a factor)
OC- Patterson (Played solid through 8….no sacks and 1 penalty for the rookie)
RG- Broeker (Texans need to get this guy on the field…find out what they have)
RT- Howard / Heck
Finesse bookends and strong run blockers on the interior.
Teams really shouldn’t let signed contracts dictate how they set their lineups. If there are players on the roster who want and can do the job, then they need to get the starts. If draft and contract status dictates the primary starters…..then where’s the real incentive for them to exceed expectations? Best player(s) should always be the field.
My concern is with the Tackles who’ve been heavily invested in. They’re both finesse pass pro guys who just have zero tenacity in the run game. The sad part, even I was thinking the ZBS would somehow hide their weakness in the run game…..I was sorely wrong.
The biggest question….could either guy eventually be solid performers as run game blockers? To date, neither have really shown run blocking as a trait. Maybe more time in the new scheme is needed and stronger run blockers on the inside. Maybe this combo could make a difference:
LT- Tunsil
LG- Scruggs (Once healthy, let him finish the season at LG. His athleticism could be a factor)
OC- Patterson (Played solid through 8….no sacks and 1 penalty for the rookie)
RG- Broeker (Texans need to get this guy on the field…find out what they have)
RT- Howard / Heck
Finesse bookends and strong run blockers on the interior.
Teams really shouldn’t let signed contracts dictate how they set their lineups. If there are players on the roster who want and can do the job, then they need to get the starts. If draft and contract status dictates the primary starters…..then where’s the real incentive for them to exceed expectations? Best player(s) should always be the field.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Whoever missed the block that got Stroud laid out should be the lowest rated. Which I think was Tunsil.
I think they got Tunsil & Howard confused.
Bengals must reallysuk, & I can believe it, if our boys graded that poorly & Singletary ran for a buckFiddy.
badboy
Hall of Fame
After watching Arizona game:
Run blocking scheme appears to be "hoping to stay in front of opponent long enough for Stroud to fire. No one seems to plant and protect phone booth let alone inches outside. Whatever 'angle' each ZBS play no Texans manhandles defense even half the time.
Singletary's 122 seemed to be on a limited few good hopes and more on his ability. The Game before 156 was against Bengals horrible run defense not what our oline accomplished. Singletary success might be because Stroud's passing so phenomenal.
Dieter cannot block moving to his right.
Howard is lost at LG as he was last year. He was beaten regularly by smaller opponents and not always by speed. He doesn't block like a 300+ pounder.
Tunsil and Tytus when pulling never seem to hit anyone more than glancing blow going to the designated spot. I understand he is not getting CJ killed, but i want more than that from him.
Run blocking scheme appears to be "hoping to stay in front of opponent long enough for Stroud to fire. No one seems to plant and protect phone booth let alone inches outside. Whatever 'angle' each ZBS play no Texans manhandles defense even half the time.
Singletary's 122 seemed to be on a limited few good hopes and more on his ability. The Game before 156 was against Bengals horrible run defense not what our oline accomplished. Singletary success might be because Stroud's passing so phenomenal.
Dieter cannot block moving to his right.
Howard is lost at LG as he was last year. He was beaten regularly by smaller opponents and not always by speed. He doesn't block like a 300+ pounder.
Tunsil and Tytus when pulling never seem to hit anyone more than glancing blow going to the designated spot. I understand he is not getting CJ killed, but i want more than that from him.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Man, I’d package Tunsil up in a deal to move up and draft LT- Joe Alt (Notre Dame) in a heart beat. Alt is strong in pretty much every facet of being a LT. One thing is for certain, having Alt at LT, Patterson at LG, Scruggs at C, Broeker at RG, and Howard at RT…..the Texans would have a run game, mostly left of the RG.
Here we go again
badboy
Hall of Fame
1. Tunsil is on Texans for his pass blocking wins.. tied at 4th in NFL.
NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings for 2023
Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.
2. Dead $ from trade 22.5 million. No way!
3. LT multi-year probowler. Alt great looking COLLEGE guy.
I still don't see what you do with Broeker. He isn't beating out Shaq Mason but I do enjoy these type discussion.
badboy
Hall of Fame
No all you have to do is go on to another thread.
So I know we spent some draft capital on the offensive line again last draft but had some unfortunate injuries. When they are all healthy are we done with high picks on the line? Is everyone going to recover 100% ? What’s the weakest spot?
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Number19
Hall of Fame
Interesting comparing ESPN analytics with PFF.1. Tunsil is on Texans for his pass blocking wins.. tied at 4th in NFL.
NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings for 2023
Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.www.espn.com
2. Dead $ from trade 22.5 million. No way!
3. LT multi-year probowler. Alt great looking COLLEGE guy.
I still don't see what you do with Broeker. He isn't beating out Shaq Mason but I do enjoy these type discussion.
ESPN 's PBWR (pass blocking win rate) has the Texans ranked #8. PFF's PB (pass blocking) has the Texans ranked #15.
ESPN 's RBWR (run blocking win rate) has the Texans ranked #23. PFF's RB (run blocking) has the Texans at #15.
At least the two are fairly close in ranking our run blocking middle of the pack. But I don't know if I can agree that our pass blocking is top 10.
So, those of you who harangue at PFF, what do you think of ESPN ranking our pass blocking as a top 10 OL? (Or am I misreading ESPN analytics' numbers)
I haven't seen the ESPN rankings before that post nor have I read anyone using their numbers to justify their opinion of a player or play
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
If....and that's a big if, Tunsil was the COMPLETE LT he's being paid (#1) to be, there would be no discussion. He's a soft one-trick pony who's the highest paid LT in the NFL.
When the team can't get many rushing yards over the left side, it's going to allow defenses to stack the box and blitz the QB. Over the last three games, Slowick has adjusted his scheme to be more run oriented in the second half....defenses know this is coming and straight-up adjust to stacking the box and for some odd-ball reason, the run game goes to shite and momentum seems to swing the other way.
For the money being paid to the LT position.....is it that far out of line to expect a dual threat LT?
There’s something you’re forgetting. Tunsil is nursing a bad knee. He hurt it earlier in the season and had to sit out a couple games. He most likely has something torn (cartilage probably) and will have to get it repaired at the end of the season. I have no doubt it’s hindering his effectiveness, but he can still play on it, and he want to play.
And whatever y’all think of the run blocking right now, if Singletary can run for over a hundred yards the last two games, then Pierce oughta be able to. If he can’t then what’s his problem? Scheme? Either adjust…… or not.
His peers have voted him as one of the top OT's in football and that means a lot more to me than what some mb poster or PFF flunky might think. CBS and PFF have him as the #3 OT in the NFL right now with only Trent Williams and Lane Johnson better.
In fact PFF says:
3. LAREMY TUNSIL, HOUSTON TEXANS
The best pass-protecting tackle in football a year ago, Tunsil had an incredible 2022 season. On the field for 676 pass-blocking snaps over the course of the regular season, he allowed just one sack, three hits and 13 hurries.
From CBS:
PFF link
CBS link
Texansballer74
The Marine
Now y’all should know Opt loves trading away our best players. Lol
In year three of CJ and Tanks rookie contracts he’s going draw up trade proposals for them as well.
Next year Both Pitre and Stingley will be on his chopping block.
Lol that’s what he do ladies and gentlemen.
In year three of CJ and Tanks rookie contracts he’s going draw up trade proposals for them as well.
Next year Both Pitre and Stingley will be on his chopping block.
Lol that’s what he do ladies and gentlemen.
He do love him some draft picks
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
In all fairness to Tunsil....he's not a mover in the ground game, and really hasn't been any better when healthy. Tunsil, when healthy is better in the pass game. Should Tunsil be the best paid LT in the NFL.....no.
Most of the running yards gained over the past 3 games have come courtesy of a strong first half.....second half when Slowick wants to lean on the run to burn the clock, the run game is burying the offense into predictable 3rd down situations.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
LOL … Wait til ya see some of his baseball trades in the Astros forum.
....is it safe to assume you would stand pat with the current Astros roster for the 2024 season? Are you expecting the Rangers to stand pat with their team in 2024 after they've tasted World Series champagne?
Teams don't pay LT's based on their run blocking skill
Don’t forget Badboy.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Williams is currently 35 and 2024 thru 2026 he will have a substantially higher cap hit than Tunsil who is only 29
How about I don’t and you just deal with it
Number19
Hall of Fame
Williams signed his contract in 2021; Tunsil signed his extension this year.
2024....Tunsil.........$25.9M
2024....Williams.....$31.6M
Does this make you happier?
And the disparity gets more pronounced thru 2026