Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Texans Offensive Line
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
The biggest part of that was talking Alex Gibbs out of retirement to teach the zbs
It's not just the difference between guard and tackle. It's also, the difference between playing on the right side versus the left side.
Here is a really good interview with a retired lineman.
"I get asked this question more than any other. The majority of people believe switching positions is easy because they’ve never done it before. Moving from side to side is easy for some, but most often, it takes a while to adjust. In the immortal words of Josh Sitton, switching from one side to the other is “like wiping your a$$ with the other hand.”
Everything is awkward and different. I had to switch from the right side to the left side (LG) a couple times in my career. It always went bad. ALWAYS. I was never comfortable at left guard. I’d always punch like I was at right tackle and when I was being bull-rushed, I’d switch my stagger to anchor the bull like a right guard, thus allowing myself to get beat inside.
According to social media, switching from tackle to guard is the “easy” solution for a tackle who’s struggling. Not so fast my friend. If an offensive tackle has good hands, generally has good movement skills but might lack some foot quickness to play tackle, then moving inside could be productive. If an offensive tackle is struggling with his strike and punch location, plus has bad feet, then moving inside is a no-go. Things happen fast at guard. Your hands must be ready for action now. And if you miss with your hands, your base better be good so you’re able to recover.
So in short, moving a struggling OT to OG isn’t easy, and it’s rarely the solution."
Ask a former NFL player: How hard is it for linemen to switch positions? - SBNation.com
Number19
Hall of Fame
Broeker has 3 years experience at LT and one year experience at LG, at Ole Miss. So of course the Texans have him at RG. His draft profile says he's "at his best mauling in the run game playing with a nasty demeanor". His physique is not suitable, in the pros, for LT. If he's going to make it in the NFL, it'll be at guard. But his past experience at Ole Miss suggests giving him a shot at LG is the correct move.
Good article, especially concerning going from right to left.
However, the way I see it, if you're a Tackle, you're probably not going to be moved to Guard. If you're being moved back & forth, you haven't established yourself as one or the other. Yes, that includes Howard.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
With Quitoriano going out with injury, veteran TE Saubert from Dallas should be a good addition to bolster the line. He is known as a decent blocker so here's hoping he can open some lanes for Pierce and co.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Oddly enough, Howard seems best suited to LT.
How is Tunsil at LG? At this point, I don't care about pay grade - I just want what's best for our offense. Tunsil could be a great help for our Center.
I think we should be able to expect our guards to be an advantage in the run game. I don't think Tunsil fits that bill.
Number19
Hall of Fame
At Alabama State, 2016 & 17 he was at RT. 2018 he did split time between RT & LT.
With the Texans, 2019, 2020 & 2022 he was at RT. 2021he had 11 games at LG and 4 games at LT.
Of course we had Tunsil at LT from 2019.
Tunsil is not a good run blocker. Doubt he would cut it at Guard.
Our best lineup is Tunsil and Howard at Tackle, with Mason at RG. Looking at Scruggs performance grades in his 3 pre-season games, by far he is our best Center.
This leaves LG as our weak spot on the line. Deculus? I doubt it. Who does that leave? Unless we sign someone, there is only Deiter and Broeker.
I've got a suspicion the Texans will play Deiter at Center and move Scruggs to LG.
Scruggs will likely go into next off season as our Center. This is why I'd rather have him at Center for the remainder of this season, to give him the experience at the position.
At LG, we'll have several players coming off IR, for next year. But we'll need to draft or sign a FA.
Edit: Forgot to mention Josh Jones. No, at LG.
Last edited:
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
That’s where the Bills had him placed (LG) when they tried to sneak him onto their PS.
Number19
Hall of Fame
In 2021 when Arizonia "experimented" with Jones at Guard, they had him on the right side. He started 9 games and played in 2 others. His overall offensive grade was 46.8. His pass blocking grade was 48.3 and his run blocking grade was 52.8.
Broeker, in two preseason games with Buffalo at LG, had an overall offensive grade of 68.0. His pass blocking grade was 73.4 and his run blocking grade was 63.7. Only pre-season, but still?
So why is Jones listed on the depth chart as the starter at LG? At the least, Broeker should be given some game snaps at LG, just to see.
Edit: maybe moving to the left side will be more natural for Jones?
Broeker, in two preseason games with Buffalo at LG, had an overall offensive grade of 68.0. His pass blocking grade was 73.4 and his run blocking grade was 63.7. Only pre-season, but still?
So why is Jones listed on the depth chart as the starter at LG? At the least, Broeker should be given some game snaps at LG, just to see.
Edit: maybe moving to the left side will be more natural for Jones?
Number19
Hall of Fame
Maybe, but more likely I would think, his poor 2021 rookie season. He had 258 snaps while starting 4 games. His offensive grade was 45.0.
But he increased that grade to 54.4, playing 57 snaps in 3 games, in 2022.
He's increased his grade this year to 67.7, in 3 pre-season games with 125 snaps played. Again, only pre-season, but still?
Our OL is not cutting it. It can't be much worse "kicking the tires" on our backups.
Not me,
I thought it was a mistake to extend Howard and said so at the time. He's an avg at best player.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Tunsil and Howard are finesse pass blockers that are very weak run blockers. This somewhat makes them one-trick pony's on the OL. There's just far too much money tied up in these two players to have them be so one-dimensional.
I'd really like to see the Texans find a way to have Patterson, Scruggs, and Broeker on the field at the same time. These three guys have been known throughout their CFB careers as nasty road-graders who play through the whistle in an effort to impose their will on defensive players. If the Texans want to build a reliable run game.....I believe that at some point, they'll have to get these guys on the field at the same time to see if they can deliver results.
Yesterday, I caught the tail end of a discussion on 610. However, I heard an interesting question that made me say hmm.
Question: If Pierce is considered a poor fit for this new scheme. Why isn't Howard and Tunsil also considered poor fits for the scheme? Seems like the OL played better when they were not playing.
Question: If Pierce is considered a poor fit for this new scheme. Why isn't Howard and Tunsil also considered poor fits for the scheme? Seems like the OL played better when they were not playing.
Texansballer74
The Marine
They were playing better at pass pro but not in the running game.
Howard is a poor fit playing LG.
I think this is partly because Howard is doing to much thinking when it comes to run blocking at LG. This isn't an issue at LT.
BullRushTX
To'oTo'o A'go-go
That's fair. Maybe he'll look better in the new scheme too.
BullRushTX
To'oTo'o A'go-go
My best guess from memory (because I don't have time to research it right now):
Juice - 7
K. Green - 7
K. Green 2.0 - 4?
Howard - 4?
Tunsil - 3?
Jones - 2?
So roughly in the neighborhood of 25-30 so far would be my estimate.
Did Fant ever miss a game with the stinger? And Patterson will miss his first this Sunday. It's nuts. Backups to the backups are missing games. This season could have turned into a total disaster, and fans would have shrugged "Offensive line was out. What can you do?"
BullRushTX
To'oTo'o A'go-go
He may have missed one. It's hard to keep track. They've really done a nice job considering all the injuries.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Tunsil is elite is pass blocking, consistently in the top ten. In 2019, his first with the Texans, his pass blocking grade was 88.2. In 2020, 85.8; in 2022, 91.7. In 2021 he was injured and he only started/played in 5 games, with his grade dipping to 75.2. So far, this season, he's grading at 83.7.
Tunsil is being paid to protect our QBs blind side and for this pro bowl quality protection, he gives up a bit in his run blocking. But this being said, Tunsil is not "bad" at run blocking. We'd like it to be better maybe, but he is adequate/average in his blocking. His grade for 2019 was 68.0; 2020, 61.7; 2022, 66.2. His injury season grade dipped to 45.0. This year, so far, his grade is 68.5.
Now Howard is a different story and difficult to evaluate because he's been moved around between RT and LG. His pass blocking has been borderline above average, but well below Tunsil's elite level. His rookie season, 2019, his pass blocking grade, at RT, was 70.4. His pass blocking digressed in his second year, dipping to 65.4, still at RT. In 2021 he was moved to LG and actually pass blocked reasonably well with a grade of 70.1. Then in 2022 he moved back to RT and maintained his pass blocking grade at 70.2. This year, at LG, in 3 games, his grade is 62.1.
Howard's run blocking, at LG, is pathetic. At RT, we need better blocking. 2019, RT, 51.2; 2020, RT, 62.7; 2021, LG, 42.5; 2022, RT, 68.0; and this year at LG again, 56.9.
The original question being addressed is, are Tunsil and Howard a fit for our new offensive scheme? My opinion, for the blindside, Tunsil is a fit. Howard? It's too bad his contract was extended. We could stand an upgrade. Howard, at best, is adequate. BUT, the Texans need to stop moving him/playing him at LG. He needs to settle in at RT and maybe we might see some improvement, since we're locked in on his contract until 2026. Potential out in 2025 would be $35,202,000 + $10,800,000.
Last edited:
Good post. Thanks for taking the time to put together the details and the data to make your point.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Good stuff numbers. Thanks for sharing
Number19
Hall of Fame
Well, I'm just spit balling here. But Green has had problems with his knees, his pec and his labrum. CnnnD posted last Aug 29 that Green was having surgery to repair his labrum tear. His knees dated from 2021, and Doc said would eventually require surgery, which I don't believe he's had. But the year and a half, plus or minus, rest should have his knees in the best shape without the surgery that can be expected. The pec recovery had been aggrevated by the shoulder issues but now should have had time to heal. So back to the labrum. Is 10 months +/- sufficient for recovery? That's a question for CnnnD, but I'm guessing yes.
If Green is motivated to return, my uninformed opinion is that Green has one last opportunity. But I'd say he has to earn his spot on the 53. His first round draft selection no longer works in his favor.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
There have been rumblings about his work ethic. If he gets traded for peanuts this offseason, we’ll know the team gave up on him.
If he stays, he shouldn’t be given a starting job but forced to earn one against Patterson/Scruggs/whoever else is added.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Last week it was reported that the Texans would evaluate Scruggs this week for his return. Still no news from the Texans, but doing a search I read that Aaron Wilson reported Wednesday that Scruggs was still one or two weeks away from returning. Sunday will be week 10 since his injury. Two more weeks will be putting his rehab in grade 3 territory, although his hamstring was reported as a grade 2. Grade 3 is a complete tear, so his grade 2 must be a "serious" grade 2.
Better safe now than sorry later.
Better safe now than sorry later.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Unless Howard at LG is the best option they have with all the injuries they've encountered.
It'll be interesting to see what happens if Scruggs ever gets on the field. Does he step in at C and everything remains the same, or do they put him at LG, leave Dieter at C, move Howard to RT and Fant sits the bench?
Most of us have said Scruggs was doing a good job before he got hurt. Same with Patterson. I may be the only one, but I thought Quessenberry was doing a good job as well before he got hurt.
Why would we be looking for an OC or OG? None of them suffered career ending injuries.
I think we're expecting Mason & all three C/OGs back. Plus Kenyon Green.
Then we've got Broeker & Morrisey (Texans like him).
We really need to get some skill players in here. Schultz has not been the guy I hoped, Quitoriano isn't a baby Gronk. & Nico has been great, but imagine if we had a 1a-1b thing going.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Other than starters, I have zero confidence in those you mention. Nada. NFL injuries almost guarantee a couple linemen will miss substantial amount of games.
I don't want those backups protecting our finally arrived franchise. We might hit on another Patterson in round 6 but I'm not betting CJ.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
A rumor doing the rounds is Texans may be interested in former Texans Center Ben Jones who is currently a FA and has not announced retirement.
I for one would be on board for this move. Ben is getting long in the tooth, but has experience out the wazoo and that would make up for his age considerations.
I would rather BJ than some jag from somebody else's practice squad and I imagine the pickings would be slim to begin with.
Get it done NC.
I for one would be on board for this move. Ben is getting long in the tooth, but has experience out the wazoo and that would make up for his age considerations.
I would rather BJ than some jag from somebody else's practice squad and I imagine the pickings would be slim to begin with.
Get it done NC.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am surprised they have not done that already instead of the last guy or two.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I'm cautiously optimistic about Kendrick Green. He started only 3 games for us at LG before being injured, but against Pittsburg he took 33 pass block snaps and was graded at 80.5, borderline elite. His run blocking still needed work, grading only 59.6, but I'd hope that would improve as he learned his assignments and got more comfortable in his assignments. It's why I'm cautiously optimistic.
Broeker also hasn't gone through a Texans TC.
I still think they may want to draft on day 3 another, specifically,, LG.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I just do not see any left guard potentials on day three.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
And toss in a 1 - 2 punch out of the backfield... Which we already potentially have in Pierce and Singletary, but our line has not been able to run block effectively enough.
Number19
Hall of Fame
We may get our first good look at Boone on Sunday. It's looking like Pierce won't be playing.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I edited my post if you want to take another peek.
Boone is #3 on our depth chart?
Who are we calling starters? Mason, Scruggs, Patterson, Kenyon Green, Kendrick Green (I didn't mention him Number19 reminded me).
I wouldn't include him but he's technically still a Texan- Quessenberry
Only 3 of those will be starters unless another is signed which I think doubtful
I don't see a real market for Green, despite his draft status. I think it's best to just see what they've got, post surgery. Still, the Texans can't count on a contribution from Green. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Tunsil Howard Patterson Mason and if he is here Fant.
Scruggs..if healthy could allow Patterson to re-locate to LG.
You have no confidence in Kenyon Green? Was this before or after his injury, or because of his injury frequency?
You have no confidence in Kendrick Green? What's his issue?
You have no confidence in Broeker. What do you think of Broeker?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Show of votes on those that are satisfied with the Texans OL?
For me, I’m not so certain that if everyone were healthy there’d be a massive improvement in the run game. I’m really dissatisfied with Tunsil b/c he’s such a one dimensional LT who’s being lavished over as a complete LT deserving of the money he’s getting. I could say the same thing about Howard.
In the scenario I’m going to present, I’m willing to give Howard a bit more time, but my patience has really run out on Tunsil.
I’d like to move up in the draft. To do this, Caserio would need to be willing to move a top player to even begin to gauge interest. I’d offer this trade to the Patriots:
Texans Receive:
RD1-05 / RD5-05
Patriots Receive:
LT- Tunsil / QB- Mills / WR- Metchie / 2025 RD3
Texans Draft:
RD1-05 LT- Joe Alt (Notre Dame) A dominating top tier LT who pass and run blocks eight he best of them. He comes from outstanding stock…his father is John Alt, former Chiefs All Pro LT.
RD1-20 WR- Xavier Legette (South Carolina) A big and surprisingly fast WR that would give Stroud two outstanding deep threats. Collins would move back to WR2 where he’d have much better mismatches. Texans revised receiver room: Leggett, Collins, Dell, Woods, Brown, and Hutchinson.
RD2-49 CB- Denzel Burke (Ohio State) Could be great pick up in RD2 if he’s still on the board. Has the size, speed, and athleticism to be a potential shut-down CB.
Anyhow, I know that talk of offering Tunsil in a trade is usually met with, are you crazy? Replace Tunsil with Alt, and the Texans should be running to the left with the same force AF enjoyed during his best years. Maybe a starting OL of:
LT- Alt
LG- Patterson
OC- Scruggs
RG- Mason or Broeker
RT- Howard
I’m almost certain that Alt, Patterson, Scruggs, and Broeker would give the Texans one hell of a nasty line.
For me, I’m not so certain that if everyone were healthy there’d be a massive improvement in the run game. I’m really dissatisfied with Tunsil b/c he’s such a one dimensional LT who’s being lavished over as a complete LT deserving of the money he’s getting. I could say the same thing about Howard.
In the scenario I’m going to present, I’m willing to give Howard a bit more time, but my patience has really run out on Tunsil.
I’d like to move up in the draft. To do this, Caserio would need to be willing to move a top player to even begin to gauge interest. I’d offer this trade to the Patriots:
Texans Receive:
RD1-05 / RD5-05
Patriots Receive:
LT- Tunsil / QB- Mills / WR- Metchie / 2025 RD3
Texans Draft:
RD1-05 LT- Joe Alt (Notre Dame) A dominating top tier LT who pass and run blocks eight he best of them. He comes from outstanding stock…his father is John Alt, former Chiefs All Pro LT.
RD1-20 WR- Xavier Legette (South Carolina) A big and surprisingly fast WR that would give Stroud two outstanding deep threats. Collins would move back to WR2 where he’d have much better mismatches. Texans revised receiver room: Leggett, Collins, Dell, Woods, Brown, and Hutchinson.
RD2-49 CB- Denzel Burke (Ohio State) Could be great pick up in RD2 if he’s still on the board. Has the size, speed, and athleticism to be a potential shut-down CB.
Anyhow, I know that talk of offering Tunsil in a trade is usually met with, are you crazy? Replace Tunsil with Alt, and the Texans should be running to the left with the same force AF enjoyed during his best years. Maybe a starting OL of:
LT- Alt
LG- Patterson
OC- Scruggs
RG- Mason or Broeker
RT- Howard
I’m almost certain that Alt, Patterson, Scruggs, and Broeker would give the Texans one hell of a nasty line.