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Texans Defense is terrible. Absolutely terrible!

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
& Mercilus
@Lucky called that one ...

Problem is he has so much dead money that it's near impossible to cut or trade him this season or next. Another of those disastrous contracts handed out by King OB & Co.

$27.2m this year and $15.15m next year in dead money and better than $3m in 2022.

Would any team cut that guy and eat that loss / cap hit ? I just can't see that happening unless they are 1-5 or something along those lines and he's totally ineffective.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
@Lucky called that one ...

Problem is he has so much dead money that it's near impossible to cut or trade him this season or next. Another of those disastrous contracts handed out by King OB & Co.

$27.2m this year and $15.15m next year in dead money and better than $3m in 2022.

Would any team cut that guy and eat that loss / cap hit ? I just can't see that happening unless they are 1-5 or something along those lines and he's totally ineffective.
I'd venture to say that, based on 20 years of history, Bill Belichick would find a way to trade Merci and his contract. As with most things Bill Belichick, he's proven to be the exception rather than the rule. OB would probably end up extending Merci, then trading him and eating the contract.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Players consistently out-negotiate O'Brien the GM. Whitney has been good for us, but he definitely did not deserve a massive new contract. He's above average at best. Not even sure he's better than Martin at this point.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I'd venture to say that, based on 20 years of history, Bill Belichick would find a way to trade Merci and his contract. As with most things Bill Belichick, he's proven to be the exception rather than the rule. OB would probably end up extending Merci, then trading him and eating the contract.
I'm not sure Belichick could pull this one off - all prorated money , signing bonus / roster bonus hits your cap instantly.

Belichick woulda traded him before the extension ....
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Turns out having a legit nose tackle in a 3-4 defense might be important.

Reader will be missed this year.
Yeah, but JJ Watt is going to make this a top ranked defense all by himself. :sarcasm:

The truth is keeping ol' JJ around is as dumb of a GM move as letting Reader go in his prime. Belichick would have traded JJ years ago, before he became a shell of his former self.

Teams are going to ground this defense up the middle all season long. The Texans have nothing short of stuffing the box to stop it, which will then just open up the massive passing lanes that makes it become a Texans vs. Globetrotters exhibition.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This! If Dashaun had not thrown and on the INT thrown ball out of bounds it would have been better decision.
The man he was going to was open. If Fells does his job that would’ve been a big play for a first down. The one to Fuller was a good decision too. The ball hit Will in both hands. As the number one now you have to catch that period. But hey y’all guys are always right. Watson should’ve did what y’all want him to do.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but JJ Watt is going to make this a top ranked defense all by himself. :sarcasm:

The truth is keeping ol' JJ around is as dumb of a GM move as letting Reader go in his prime. Belichick would have traded JJ years ago, before he became a shell of his former self.

Teams are going to ground this defense up the middle all season long. The Texans have nothing short of stuffing the box to stop it, which will then just open up the massive passing lanes that makes it become a Texans vs. Globetrotters exhibition.
Just a hint...............

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1600112464167.png
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I like Watt and what he brings to the Texans and the City of Houston. I'm not happy with the leaving of the field.....that's going to be a tough pill for fans. The only thing that makes that pill easier to swallow is winning and that could be extremely tough this season.

I think the biggest blunders for the past couple of seasons, letting certain defensive personnel leave and signing the ones that should've been dealt before their contracts were up. I'm also saying the defense would've been far more effective in a true 4-3. So, if I had my rathers the 2020 defense might look like this instead:

DE- Watt / DT- Blacklock (R) / DT- Reader (FA-20) / DE- Clowney (FA-19)
OLB- Brennan - Greenard (R) / ILB- Mosley (FA-20) / OLB- Martin (FA-20)
RCB- Robey / SS- Murray / FS- Reid / LCB- Hargreaves (FA-20) - Reid (R)

I think Watt survives much better in the latter part of his career with a DL that gives him more one on one opportunities.

Clowney, Reader, and Mosley would cost the Texans roughly 45M annually based on current numbers.

Mercilus, McKinney, Cunningham, and Cole will cost the Texans 40,1M annually based on current numbers.

The numbers aren't exact but if the urge hits anyone to get super accurate.....knock it out.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I like JJ, as well, but objectively speaking, he's over the hill. Time to move on.

He's missed 32 games in the last four seasons. He needs to be on a team that is already a contender and he is not expected to be a critical component on every down of the defense.

It happens to the best of them.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I like JJ, as well, but objectively speaking, he's over the hill. Time to move on.

He's missed 32 games in the last four seasons. He needs to be on a team that is already a contender and he is not expected to be a critical component on every down of the defense.

It happens to the best of them.
I 100% agree. I would ask Watt if he would like to finish his career in GB or would he like to go to the Bears. My guess, GB would jump at the opportunity depending on what OB would ask for in return. It would be a huge marketing move with the upside of them getting a solid season out of him with the potential for another.

If I were the Packers.....I'd have zero concern since they'd be negotiating with OB.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I like JJ, as well, but objectively speaking, he's over the hill. Time to move on.

He's missed 32 games in the last four seasons. He needs to be on a team that is already a contender and he is not expected to be a critical component on every down of the defense.

It happens to the best of them.
Yes it’s time to move on for both parties. JJ career is not over yet , I believe he will be wearing a different uniform next season no matter the outcome from this season. Unfortunately I don’t see us with another beast like JJ in a Texans uniform for years to come. They pretty much screwed themselves with these outlandish moves over the past few years.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Ravens are only 6 point favorites ..Odd
Last year, the Ravens were favored by 4 to 4.5 at home.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Texans draft picks include

3rd
Two 4ths
5th
Two 6ths
7th

I dont know about compensatory picks.

If they want to move up into the 2nd they have the fire power to do it.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The Texans draft picks include

3rd
Two 4ths
5th
Two 6ths
7th

I dont know about compensatory picks.

If they want to move up into the 2nd they have the fire power to do it.
It would have to be a game changing player for me to give up a lot to move into second round. I don't see anyone now in round two I would trade that far to get with exception of Alabama's Nagee Harris. I think we can get a DE/OLB edge, a RB, WR and a corner with our first four picks. We at least based on today's info cannot trade our third and both fours to move into top 52. We need too many people.
 

GanadoUHCoog

Waterboy
You would've traded him coming off of a season ending injury with an impending $20+M cap hit?

For what?
Would’ve never structured his contract to have a $20M dead cap 3 years in. He hasn’t been “JJ” in almost 5 years now. Writing has been on the wall for years. Again to my earlier point about not one of our top 10 paid players being a “good value” for a highly paid player.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It would have to be a game changing player for me to give up a lot to move into second round. I don't see anyone now in round two I would trade that far to get with exception of Alabama's Nagee Harris. I think we can get a DE/OLB edge, a RB, WR and a corner with our first four picks. We at least based on today's info cannot trade our third and both fours to move into top 52. We need too many people.
If they can get an edge like Browning (Who can also cover) by trading up into the 2nd rd I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm hoping alot of guys come out early in these Covid times we live and Tyreke Johnson who's a great athlete falls to the 3rd rd. If he does I would give up the other 4th and a 5th to get him.

These are 2 very under the radar great athletes from Ohio St. and could be what this defense has been missing. Guys that can cover and rush the passer.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
tbt I dont' know if that was as bad of a move as it looked at the time. It isn't as if the rest of the NFL was in a hurry to sign the guy.
It's not like every team has the need at the position and/or the cap space, the right situation.

Teams in rebuilding mode are out of the question.

What we know is that a number of teams were interested, a couple of them tried the sign and trade thing that was shot down by the league for example.

And then you had this Covid 19 thing.

Clowney was able to get a deal that pays him up to $15M, without the franchise tag next year from a team on a playoff quest.
That tells me enough interest were there.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's not like every team has the need at the position and/or the cap space, the right situation.

Teams in rebuilding mode are out of the question.

What we know is that a number of teams were interested, a couple of them tried the sign and trade thing that was shot down by the league for example.

And then you had this Covid 19 thing.

Clowney was able to get a deal that pays him up to $15M, without the franchise tag next year from a team on a playoff quest.
That tells me enough interest were there.
But he has to do things he's never done before and probably wont be able to do to get his 15 mil. Like double digit sacks. Are you trying to say Clowney got the $$$$ he was looking for?

If Clowney was smart he would've taken the deal Gaine offered him 2 yrs ago. That knee isn't going to get better with age.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If they can get an edge like Browning (Who can also cover) by trading up into the 2nd rd I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm hoping alot of guys come out early in these Covid times we live and Tyreke Johnson who's a great athlete falls to the 3rd rd. If he does I would give up the other 4th and a 5th to get him.

These are 2 very under the radar great athletes from Ohio St. and could be what this defense has been missing. Guys that can cover and rush the passer.
I think Tyreke Johnson is a true sophomore. Browning is interesting but needs to remain in school and show what he is. He has only one defended pass so not sure how good he is in coverage. With no first round we need to get our picks right with no room for 'oops' like Ejiofor and Warring. Please add any players you like this season in my thread.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think Tyreke Johnson is a true sophomore. Browning is interesting but needs to remain in school and show what he is. He has only one defended pass so not sure how good he is in coverage. With no first round we need to get our picks right with no room for 'oops' like Ejiofor and Warring. Please add any players you like this season in my thread.
Tyreke is a 3rd yr Sophomore.

You have a new players thread out for this yr? I really enjoy that thread.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
But he has to do things he's never done before and probably wont be able to do to get his 15 mil. Like double digit sacks. Are you trying to say Clowney got the $$$$ he was looking for?

If Clowney was smart he would've taken the deal Gaine offered him 2 yrs ago. That knee isn't going to get better with age.
What was the offer the Texans gave him ?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Tyreke is a 3rd yr Sophomore.

You have a new players thread out for this yr? I really enjoy that thread.
Thanks for correction of Tyreke Johnson. I will watch him. I am having hard time getting into watching college and many schools I follow have donuts and coffee games early season which I rarely watch like Clemson vs Wake Forest.

My BADBOY's players for 2021 draft is up but dragging this year.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
It's not like every team has the need at the position and/or the cap space, the right situation.

Teams in rebuilding mode are out of the question.

What we know is that a number of teams were interested, a couple of them tried the sign and trade thing that was shot down by the league for example.

And then you had this Covid 19 thing.

Clowney was able to get a deal that pays him up to $15M, without the franchise tag next year from a team on a playoff quest.
That tells me enough interest were there.
Clowney was going to sign with the Texans. The Titans at the last minute made a better guaranteed offer. So instead of meeting up with Bill O’Brien and staff, Clowney took a flight out to Tennessee to sign his new contract. Bill O’Brien was livid
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Eh, defensively better tackling would go a long way to improving this defense for next week. What I’ve seen in rewatching this 1st game several times is the middle linebackers had an especially horrible game. Helaire was juking these dudes out of their shoes a little too much.

As far as the secondary, KC primarily went at Hargreaves and the rookie Reid..that’s why Watkins had such a good 1st half b/c it was either 1 of those 2 on him. At some point, Weaver switched and put Lonnie Johnson on him and u didnt really hear from Watkins for the rest of the game. Gotta believe if Conley was healthy he’s on Watkins, Lonnie’s on Hardman/Kelce & Hargreaves doesn’t play as much, the rooknever sees significant snaps.

Not many teams can go 3 deep at WR like that though and of course we won’t be playing a Mahomes every week.

I suspect that the defense will look much better this week against Baltimore with better tackling. But they’ve got to do better in 3rd and medium/long situations for the improvement to show.
 

Mangler

All Pro
Eh, defensively better tackling would go a long way to improving this defense for next week. What I’ve seen in rewatching this 1st game several times is the middle linebackers had an especially horrible game. Helaire was juking these dudes out of their shoes a little too much.

As far as the secondary, KC primarily went at Hargreaves and the rookie Reid..that’s why Watkins had such a good 1st half b/c it was either 1 of those 2 on him. At some point, Weaver switched and put Lonnie Johnson on him and u didnt really hear from Watkins for the rest of the game. Gotta believe if Conley was healthy he’s on Watkins, Lonnie’s on Hardman/Kelce & Hargreaves doesn’t play as much, the rooknever sees significant snaps.

Not many teams can go 3 deep at WR like that though and of course we won’t be playing a Mahomes every week.

I suspect that the defense will look much better this week against Baltimore with better tackling. But they’ve got to do better in 3rd and medium/long situations for the improvement to show.
Your faith in this defense covers this entire message board. I see another embarrassing loss, not because of Weaver, but because besides Justin Reid and Lonnie, this defense is straight up garbage! Our offense is probably just as bad. We’re in for a long one boys...
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Your faith in this defense covers this entire message board. I see another embarrassing loss, not because of Weaver, but because besides Justin Reid and Lonnie, this defense is straight up garbage! Our offense is probably just as bad. We’re in for a long one boys...
Yeah yeah you and most everybody else do a good job of echoing each others’ sentiments about how horrible they think the team is and that there’s no hope etc. etc. Same **** every year with you guys. No fair or impartiality whatsoever...the gut reaction is what it is.

The worst is how sports radio around here panders to you types.
 

Scooter

Funky
So ummm ... I hate to throw this very weird idea out there, but how would Watson do if he had a plan? You know, things like quick hits and play actions that can turn the worst line into competence by MOVING THE DEFENSE. It appeared that he moved well and was pretty accurate ... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Bill O'Brien calling the plays, and designing the routes, and coordinating the blocking assignments ... and his WR1 is Will Fuller. Maybe if we were up by 40 we could ....
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
JJ is not an every down impact player any more. Should’ve been traded 3 years ago. We literally don’t have one star player on defense. A bunch of “C” type players.
I don't like to be so insensitive or maybe it's brutally candid but the thing is JJ has now become analogous to the astrodome: not very functional anymore but still very costly but difficult to dispose of because of sentimental reasons.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So ummm ... I hate to throw this very weird idea out there, but how would Watson do if he had a plan? You know, things like quick hits and play actions that can turn the worst line into competence by MOVING THE DEFENSE. It appeared that he moved well and was pretty accurate ... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Bill O'Brien calling the plays, and designing the routes, and coordinating the blocking assignments ... and his WR1 is Will Fuller. Maybe if we were up by 40 we could ....
Lol, did you actually watch the game?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't like to be so insensitive or maybe it's brutally candid but the thing is JJ has now become analogous to the astrodome: not very functional anymore but still very costly but difficult to dispose of because of sentimental reasons.
People keep thinking & expecting for him to do the stuff he was doing in his prime like it was normal & it wasn't. 3-4 DE's weren't supposed to be doing what that kid was doing. As his age and injury history has advanced however, he has now settled into what a 3-4 DE would normally be doing. So if you've been expecting 2012 JJ, then yeah sure, you're gonna be disappointed b/c that guy ain't coming back. He's not that edge threat anymore.......but i'm not sure he ever really was TBH. He made alot of plays circling around out there on twists with the OLB's....but aot of those plays were batted balls something he really doesn't do that anymore. If you really go back & watch JJ in his prime, The lionshare of the plays he made came from him playing from the inside or slicing down inside where he had mismatches against slower guards. Then when his body began to breakdown & Clowney was brought in, Crennel began leaving him out on the edge figuring Clowney would pick up the slack....we all know how that went.

What i saw against the Chiefs is Weaver had him playing more than a few snaps inside on the nose again..I think some out of that was out of neccessity b/c Blacklock hardly played and clearly wasn't ready from what i did see of him...& b/c we were down on our edge guys with Okafor being out again & Grennard inactive. Nevertheless he played fine from my estimations aside from his usual freelancing that opened up gaping holes for Helaire. He still made his fair share of plays in the run game though. The others around him need to step up.....looking at you Merci.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yeah yeah you and most everybody else do a good job of echoing each others’ sentiments about how horrible they think the team is and that there’s no hope etc. etc. Same **** every year with you guys. No fair or impartiality whatsoever...the gut reaction is what it is.

The worst is how sports radio around here panders to you types.
meh, your perception of "echoing" is just a consensus reached by a majority of dudes that have watched football for years.

"Same **** every year with you guys" is the direct result of same **** every year with this franchise.

I know that you'd most likely prefer the conformity of everyone being shiny happy fans, but folks have a right to their perspectives regardless of how much it seems to upset you.

Ultimately, almost nobody wants a barely-above mediocre franchise and everyone wants the same thing in the end.

As far as radio, perhaps Marc Vandermeer and his enthusiastic pom pom waving is better suited for your listening pleasure.
 


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