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Texans Defense is terrible. Absolutely terrible!

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
As always you jump to extreme rather than evaluating Watson. I did not say Dashaun was trash and his Oline wasn't great but there were more than just a few plays Watson deserves critique. Priority example would be the INT. He was pressured and threw deep rather than out of bounds. Now if you want to include OC Tim Kelly as part of problem based on info we know, I am right there. I also said enough blame to go around but you focused on Watson like a lizard on a fly.

Your criticism or critique is unwarranted just like a few others on here. Yes just like every other player can be criticized and critiqued. That joker that everyone is slobbering on should've thrown two picks. One was dropped while the other one was wiped away with a terrible PI call. Why didn't he throw those away ? But hey let's just skit on Watson as usual. Did he play a perfect game heck no. But he could've played much better if his offensive line would played improved. He could've played a lot better if the scheme was better or his receivers would've gotten opened. Or his defense wouldn't have gotten mugged.

Lol at extreme
 

Earl34

All Pro
I love how O'Brien comes out the gate blaming the defense. It's the defense you put together, BoB! And your offense still looks lost! This guy is amazing.

What's funny is Mahomes and Reid said last year the Texans' defense played heavy man coverage. This game they were surprised by the various coverages and then they adjusted. No one on the Chief's defense said the Texans' offense did anything to surprise them or was different from last year.
 

whodknee

Working Class Hero
I agree. The team looked bad last night. BUT, there was no pre season so lets give it a week or two. If they continue in this fashion Bob will be gone by week 6. If they are 4-2 everyone will be all giddy again
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
That's fair. Okay, Watson wasn't good either. But, my criticism starts with the OL and then we can get to Watson, the WRs, OB and Kelly. I have to ask the question. What QB is going to be good when:

"Houston's offensive line ranked 23rd in pressure rate allowed in 2019, but perhaps a bigger issue was Watson's tendency to invite pressure on himself. The Texans quarterback was responsible for 42 pressures last year, which tied for the second-most among quarterbacks.

This wasn't the issue last night, as Watson himself was charged with just one pressure. The issue was the sheer amount of quick pressure allowed by the offensive line. In total, Houston allowed six pressures in under 2 seconds and stumbled to just a 59.9 team pass-blocking grade for the game"

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-1-5-takeaways-kansas-city-chiefs-34-20-houston-texas

I just have one question -

When the results remain the same at what point do you start to believe that maybe he is part of the problem ?

This guy is being paid as a player who can elevate those around him - He isn't doing that.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Lol and smh. These players were brought here because they suppose to help elevate the offense. And you can’t do your job when the blocking up front is getting manhandled like they did last night.
 

Mangler

All Pro
I agree. The team looked bad last night. BUT, there was no pre season so lets give it a week or two. If they continue in this fashion Bob will be gone by week 6. If they are 4-2 everyone will be all giddy again
I can see Bob getting desperate and installing a “simplified” offensive game plan that actually works, instead of his usual super complex Chinese backwards bullsh1t. As for him being gone if this pathetic excuse of a football team continues to lose, I just don’t see it. The McNairs wouldn’t have allowed him to gut out the team and trade valuable draft picks if they were actually going to hold him accountable for putting out such a lousy product.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Chiefs are playing the Chargers, the Ravens, then the Patriots.


How many points do you think they'll score in each of these games?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The Chiefs are playing the Chargers, the Ravens, then the Patriots.


How many points do you think they'll score in each of these games?
38 against the Chargers , 50burger against the Patriots .... Ravens at their place 31.


Better question might be how many points do you think the Texans score against -

Ravens <16
Steelers <24
Vikings <24
Jax >27


And if any of those are enough considering this defense.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Overall a loss against the Chiefs in their home opener after they won a Super Bowl was expected. But we need to fix the run D and get the new receivers involved if we want to make some noise this year.
They were favored to win by 7, so yeah... expected.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Better question might be how many points do you think the Texans score against -
Yeah, I thought this thread was about the defense. I posted that before reading this thread. I just read through it.

Still, if we're expecting the Chiefs to score 30+ against the Chargers, Ravens, Patriots... we may be jumping the gun on how bad this defense is.

7 points scored through three qtrs... against KC's defense, yeah... wasn't expecting that.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Yea he had a whopping 3 tackles. Hardly knew he was there. I like Whitney but since the extension he's JAG now.
Oh, he’s been a JAG long since before the extension. That’s why the extension was such a WTF moment.

Dude had zero pressures last night.

I just have one question -

When the results remain the same at what point do you start to believe that maybe he is part of the problem ?

This guy is being paid as a player who can elevate those around him - He isn't doing that.
I agree that no one, including Watson, and except for Dv Johnson, played well, and you can go around pointing to Watson, the receivers, the line, looking to place blame, and yes, all are guilty, but it boils down to the design and the designer of this offense. Other than a couple of screens that actually worked, I saw nothing different from this “revamped” offense.

Deshaun Watson is NOT going to have the career we all are hoping for because Bill O’Brein and his offensive design and scheme isn’t going to allow him to reach his full potential. Just that simple.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I just have one question -

When the results remain the same at what point do you start to believe that maybe he is part of the problem ?

This guy is being paid as a player who can elevate those around him - He isn't doing that.
Now that he has that contract, if that is the new standard, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. A month before he signed his new contract, that OL needed to improve and play better. A week after he signs his new contract, he is expected to elevate the same OL that needed improvement a month ago?

We will have to agree to disagree on this. There is enough blame to go around and Watson deserves his fair share, but Brady or Mahomes could come in here and the McNairs could give them a piece of the franchise and $100 million a year and they are not elevating Zack Fulton to be a better blocker. Tough crowd.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Elevate receivers who clearly don’t know the system huh. Did JJ elevate those players on the defensive end?

Earl I know what it is, man they didn’t listen to Corrosion’s when he was going on and on about teams not winning a super bowl. Especially when the quarterback eats up a certain percentage of the cap. So now every mistake made by Watson will be highlighted.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I just have one question -

When the results remain the same at what point do you start to believe that maybe he is part of the problem ?

This guy is being paid as a player who can elevate those around him - He isn't doing that.
I disagree with a lot of things you say in this thread.
If Watson was to trade place with Mahomes last night, he would have at least near as much the results.

O'Brien play design is simpleton as always, it helps nobody. And the blocking was terrible.

And yes, I have witnessed great QBs unable to perform under similar situations.
Even Brady had failed a number of times with Belichik calling play and Brady trying to execute it.

You put Brady or Mahomes on the Texans yesterday and they would have failed too.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Now that he has that contract, if that is the new standard, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. A month before he signed his new contract, that OL needed to improve and play better. A week after he signs his new contract, he is expected to elevate the same OL that needed improvement a month ago?

We will have to agree to disagree on this. There is enough blame to go around and Watson deserves his fair share, but Brady or Mahomes could come in here and the McNairs could give them a piece of the franchise and $100 million a year and they are not elevating Zack Fulton to be a better blocker. Tough crowd.

So what you are telling me is "he needs everything just right to be just right".

In that case , they just paid Brad Johnson $160m.

But ... you didn't answer the question - At what point does he start to appear as part of the problem ? After we get the same results with another coaching staff ?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lets start with the very first pass play that WFV gets blamed for dropping.

That was a ball that never should have been thrown despite the fact that it was thrown in the only place possible - It was a poor decision.

That CB had perfect coverage and inside leverage , Fuller running the route for an inside throw the whole way and Watson throws it to the outside shoulder forcing Fuller to make a near impossible adjustment at full speed - probably should have been offensive pass interference as he pushed off to make the adjustment to the outside. Credit to Fuller for damn near coming up with it.

Terrible decision to throw that ball.
I disagree on this.
The Chiefs were in Cover 2, until the SS stepped up.
Fuller was in one on one with a rookie CB.
Regardless whether it was single safety or cover 2, that ball has got to be on the outside.
It's not an easy catch, but it was in Fuller's bread basket.
A veteran no. 1 had to make that catch.
He got paid handsomely, too. (And if he can shake the injury bug, he might get paid among top dollar next year as well).

True, the INT was probably ill-advised, but Mahomes threw one right to Murray without pressure in his face.
And he got paid more than Watson did.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Howard got mobstered but my question was after #4 took off to left sidelines why did he not throw it away at the 40? All three of us watching were yelling get rid of it.

Edit: Tunsil and Scharping were horrible that play.
Why didn't one of the veteran WR's or TE break routes and move towards Watson's side of the field to give him a couple of options? Might be that none of them could get open throughout the game and stayed on routes come hail or high water.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lets start with the very first pass play that WFV gets blamed for dropping.

That was a ball that never should have been thrown despite the fact that it was thrown in the only place possible - It was a poor decision.

That CB had perfect coverage and inside leverage , Fuller running the route for an inside throw the whole way and Watson throws it to the outside shoulder forcing Fuller to make a near impossible adjustment at full speed - probably should have been offensive pass interference as he pushed off to make the adjustment to the outside. Credit to Fuller for damn near coming up with it.

Terrible decision to throw that ball.

Then how about the 3-4 times he threw erratically on very short throws ...

This guy is being paid like he's an elite QB and has yet to show us anything elite as a passer , only as an athlete.
And don't forget about the INT that was called back due to a questionable PI call on Robey.
Even if it was a correct call, it was still a bad throw by Mahomes?!?
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
What's funny is Mahomes and Reid said last year the Texans' defense played heavy man coverage. This game they were surprised by the various coverages and then they adjusted. No one on the Chief's defense said the Texans' offense did anything to surprise them or was different from last year.
Except that #31 looking like somewhat his pro bowl self must have been a surprise to them (and many on this forum).
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I just have one question -

When the results remain the same at what point do you start to believe that maybe he is part of the problem ?

This guy is being paid as a player who can elevate those around him - He isn't doing that.
Dammmmmm, I thought you were fitting that shite-shoe to OB's dumbarse but you insist on trying to put this on the foot of Watson. In your mind, the failure of this offense is completely on Watson....right?

Everything "WE" saw offensively last night was the same thing we saw in 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014......yet, you're saying Watson is the one who has failed the Texans. The only time this offense looked high octane, Watson's first 6 games b/c OB had to modify his gameplan for the inexperienced Watson. OB has ducked everything up from then.
 

Earl34

All Pro
So what you are telling me is "he needs everything just right to be just right".

In that case , they just paid Brad Johnson $160m.

But ... you didn't answer the question - At what point does he start to appear as part of the problem ? After we get the same results with another coaching staff ?
He doesn’t need everything just right to perform. That’s extreme. However, he needs the OL to perform better than they did last night.

When he holds the ball too long, he is part of the problem. When he has adequate OL protection and making bone headed mistakes he is part of the problem. When he is turning the ball over because of not reading the defense he is part of the problem. I can keep going.

However, dropping back and within 2 seconds you are under pressure and you’re suppose to elevate your teammates is a bit much. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on this one.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Why didn't one of the veteran WR's or TE break routes and move towards Watson's side of the field to give him a couple of options? Might be that none of them could get open throughout the game and stayed on routes come hail or high water.
Ok..but it didn't happen and Watson could have thrown ball away. Simple as that. Again I'm not saying others didn't makes mistakes or played well. Yet some here are making him the new Teflon man. No matter what critique is made it's someone else's fault.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It wasn't something that most would have noticed watching TV, but it was raining or misting throughout the game. WRs on both sides were compromised. Even Hill was not his dynamic self. Mahomes only tolled 210 total passing yds. Watson tolled 252 yds and most of those in essentially garbage time. On two late scoring drives, the Texans earned 140 of their 360 yards and nine of their 21 first downs.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Yea he had a whopping 3 tackles. Hardly knew he was there. I like Whitney but since the extension he's JAG now.
Just rewatched the defense eyeballing Mercilus specifically. A complete and total non-factor. I mean, he didn’t make an impact on a single play. And 2 of the 3 tackles he did make were after runs of 18 and 7 yards.

He should be good to go for a killer week of practice though.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Dammmmmm, I thought you were fitting that shite-shoe to OB's dumbarse but you insist on trying to put this on the foot of Watson. In your mind, the failure of this offense is completely on Watson....right?

Everything "WE" saw offensively last night was the same thing we saw in 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014......yet, you're saying Watson is the one who has failed the Texans. The only time this offense looked high octane, Watson's first 6 games b/c OB had to modify his gameplan for the inexperienced Watson. OB has ducked everything up from then.

Nope , I don't blame it all on Watson , just part of it.

Part goes to OB , some to the OL , some to those route runners , some on the play caller .... and the dude who got rid of Hopkins.

Its not a popular opinion around here but I'm kinda beginning to believe that @steelbtexan may just be right - Watson might not be a superbowl caliber signal caller. He's good for a few highlights but not consistent enough to win at a high level ..

One thing has remained consistent since Watson took over and that's the offense being inconsistent - Its been a big play or give the ball back to the opposition one way or another.
Last night wasn't much different against a mediocre at best defense.

First drive 3 and out
9 plays TD
4 plays punt
11 plays missed FG from 50+
8 plays punt
4 plays INT


By which time they are down 3 scores , 24-7.


To this point they have 210 total yards of offense 68 of that on the ground , 11 total first downs and 7 points on the board thru 3 quarters and into the 4th.

After KC's next drive they are down 31-7 and at which point KC is content to let the Texans burn time off the clock while keeping everything in front of them.

I cringe at the thought of what that Ravens defense will do to this offense ....
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
And don't forget about the INT that was called back due to a questionable PI call on Robey.
Even if it was a correct call, it was still a bad throw by Mahomes?!?
Sure it was a bad throw ... and he made at least one other (possible miscommunication with the WR).
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I disagree on this.
The Chiefs were in Cover 2, until the SS stepped up.
Fuller was in one on one with a rookie CB.
Regardless whether it was single safety or cover 2, that ball has got to be on the outside.
It's not an easy catch, but it was in Fuller's bread basket.
A veteran no. 1 had to make that catch.
He got paid handsomely, too. (And if he can shake the injury bug, he might get paid among top dollar next year as well).

True, the INT was probably ill-advised, but Mahomes threw one right to Murray without pressure in his face.
And he got paid more than Watson did.

The reason it had to be thrown to the outside was because the inside was taken away but Fuller clearly expected the ball either in front of him or on the inside as he was looking that way the whole route and at the last second pushed off with both hands and spun outside. It could easily have been called OPI.

That pass was in the only place that gave Fuller a chance to make a play on it but it was a very low percentage decision. Maybe the most accurate throw Watson made all night but still not a good decision.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The reason it had to be thrown to the outside was because the inside was taken away but Fuller clearly expected the ball either in front of him or on the inside as he was looking that way the whole route and at the last second pushed off with both hands and spun outside. It could easily have been called OPI.

That pass was in the only place that gave Fuller a chance to make a play on it but it was a very low percentage decision. Maybe the most accurate throw Watson made all night but still not a good decision.
Fuller was on an outside release.
The CB had inside leverage.
On to of that, there was also a safety inside.
That ball has got to be thrown outside.

Unless you know for sure that the play was called for a throw inside no matter what. In that case, it would be a dumb call.
Secondly, Mahomes was allowed a miscommunication with his receiver, but Watson has to be on the same page with his, always?

OK, I see how it works now. :brando:
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Nope , I don't blame it all on Watson , just part of it.

Part goes to OB , some to the OL , some to those route runners , some on the play caller .... and the dude who got rid of Hopkins.

Its not a popular opinion around here but I'm kinda beginning to believe that @steelbtexan may just be right - Watson might not be a superbowl caliber signal caller. He's good for a few highlights but not consistent enough to win at a high level ..

One thing has remained consistent since Watson took over and that's the offense being inconsistent -
One thing that remains consistent since OB came to the Texans, and that's the offense always sputter because his play design is simply elementary.

You've got to be kidding about the SB-caliber part. Have you checked to see who the SB winning QBs were, and what they did? Heck. Even Tom Brady was pretty average in his first few years in the league.
What Brady really had was a good O-line and a HOF HC. The Pats did invest in the offensive line, always.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Fuller was on an outside release.
The CB had inside leverage.
On to of that, there was also a safety inside.
That ball has got to be thrown outside.
Watch Fuller - Its clear he's looking for the ball inside until the very last second.

The odds of Fuller making the adjustment to make that catch were slim to none.

Great ball placement by Watson but still a pass that shouldn't have been thrown asking the WR to make a very difficult catch.


Secondly, Mahomes was allowed a miscommunication with his receiver, but Watson has to be on the same page with his, always?

OK, I see how it works now. :brando:
Mahomes is irrelevant in this discussion.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Watch Fuller - Its clear he's looking for the ball inside until the very last second.

The odds of Fuller making the adjustment to make that catch were slim to none.

Great ball placement by Watson but still a pass that shouldn't have been thrown.




Mahomes is irrelevant in this discussion.
That ball needed to be thrown outside PERIOD.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
And you know that how?
One minute, you said the ball should have been thrown to the inside, the next minute you said it shouldn't have been thrown at all.
LOL.
I never said the ball should be thrown inside. I said that Fuller was looking for it / playing it to be thrown inside or over the top but because of the coverage it shouldn't have been thrown at all.
There was no chance of him catching the ball inside or over the top.
There was also very little chance that he makes the necessary adjustment to make the catch outside therefor it was a bad decision to throw the ball to him at all.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I never said the ball should be thrown inside. I said that Fuller was looking for it / playing it to be thrown inside or over the top but because of the coverage it shouldn't have been thrown at all.
There was no chance of him catching the ball inside or over the top.
There was also very little chance that he makes the necessary adjustment to make the catch outside therefor it was a bad decision to throw the ball to him at all.
Even if there was little chance (which I disagree), it's still better than none.
I stand on the decision. In fact, it's a no-brainer when I look at the view from behind the QB.
The ball has to go that way, every single time.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
I agree. The team looked bad last night. BUT, there was no pre season so lets give it a week or two. If they continue in this fashion Bob will be gone by week 6. If they are 4-2 everyone will be all giddy again
Just rewatched the defense eyeballing Mercilus specifically. A complete and total non-factor. I mean, he didn’t make an impact on a single play. And 2 of the 3 tackles he did make were after runs of 18 and 7 yards.

He should be good to go for a killer week of practice though.
Mercilus look really slow
 

Decim8

Waterboy
One thing has remained consistent since Watson took over and that's the offense being inconsistent - Its been a big play or give the ball back to the opposition one way or another.
Last night wasn't much different against a mediocre at best defense.

First drive 3 and out
9 plays TD
4 plays punt
11 plays missed FG from 50+
8 plays punt
4 plays INT

I cringe at the thought of what that Ravens defense will do to this offense ....
Better yet, as the offense ever been consistent since the OB (offensive guru) arrived? All I know is I have faith in watson with a new coach than OB with a new QB

The ravens offense against our defense is gonna turn ugly real quick
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I never said the ball should be thrown inside. I said that Fuller was looking for it / playing it to be thrown inside or over the top but because of the coverage it shouldn't have been thrown at all.
There was no chance of him catching the ball inside or over the top.
There was also very little chance that he makes the necessary adjustment to make the catch outside therefor it was a bad decision to throw the ball to him at all.
Wasting your time
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
This is a lot of offensive discussion in a thread titled "Defense is terrible". :wheel:
To that point, improvement needs to be made in play calling and design. The blame doesn't fall in any one direction or on any single set of shoulders, and that includes Watson. Yup, he didn't play a perfect game, made some unwise decisions. So did Mahomes.
Difference in scoring output between the teams is simply this;
1) Our offensive play design vs the Chiefs defense.
2) Chiefs offensive play design vs our defense.

Clearly the Chiefs offensive play design was more than our defensive talent could overcome. This leads to a lopsided score.
 


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