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Texans Defense is terrible. Absolutely terrible!

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
No doubt about it they did .... but ask yourself how much of that was off schedule magic and is that sustainable ?
No it isn’t sustainable and it’s why they are so inconsistent. If Watson were in a real offense, he’d be up there with Mahomes.

You want to know why Watson holds onto the ball. Watch the all22. Numerous occasions the Texans had 4 receivers in the pattern and they were all at the same exact depth downfield, almost in a straight line, and they were all covered. How do you design plays where everyone runs 10 yard routes??

Watson holds onto the ball because there’s nowhere to go with it. These routes are garbage, the design of the plays are garbage. Play calling don’t make a bit of difference if the plays you have to choose from are flawed.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
No it isn’t sustainable and it’s why they are so inconsistent. If Watson were in a real offense, he’d be up there with Mahomes.

You want to know why Watson holds onto the ball. Watch the all22. Numerous occasions the Texans had 4 receivers in the pattern and they were all at the same exact depth downfield, almost in a straight line, and they were all covered. How do you design plays where everyone runs 10 yard routes??

Watson holds onto the ball because there’s nowhere to go with it. These routes are garbage, the design of the plays are garbage. Play calling don’t make a bit of difference if the plays you have to choose from are flawed.

I have broken down every play of Watson's career on All-22 ... with the exception of last weeks game as I haven't gotten around to it yet.
 
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Earl34

All Pro
No it isn’t sustainable and it’s why they are so inconsistent. If Watson were in a real offense, he’d be up there with Mahomes.

You want to know why Watson holds onto the ball. Watch the all22. Numerous occasions the Texans had 4 receivers in the pattern and they were all at the same exact depth downfield, almost in a straight line, and they were all covered. How do you design plays where everyone runs 10 yard routes??

Watson holds onto the ball because there’s nowhere to go with it. These routes are garbage, the design of the plays are garbage. Play calling don’t make a bit of difference if the plays you have to choose from are flawed.
This is a great post and here is a visual. Looking at Watson's head, his progressions start from the right side. No one is open. If he looks to left, the DB has the inside position on the WR at the 50. Will the WR seeing the DB has inside position, will he adjust and run an out or flag patter? Will he continue with a slant or post? Look at the spacing of the WRs. Why does this offense have so many WRs running at the same depth? Look at Watson's back foot. He is ready to throw, but throw where?

Don't get me wrong. At times, Watson does hold the ball too long and he does miss reads while waiting on other options. But I cannot place all the blame on him when I can clearly see that the WR routes and offensive scheme also contributes to him holding the ball?
 
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Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Don't get me wrong. At times, Watson does hold the ball too long and he does miss reads while waiting on other options.
Oh absolutely. I think it was Cooks 1st reception, he was wide open over the middle and Watson was looking right at him and didn’t pull the trigger. When he finally did it turned into a contested catch with 2 defenders in on it. Gotta get the ball out there.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Prove it.
Open your freaking eyes and you can see. 200 yds rushing. #77 was kicking his a** in the qtr I watched. That's a fact and there's nothing to prove. Now you might want to watch that game and give me your opinion as to why he played a great game instead of spouting off a bunch of useless stats.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You obviously don't follow the chips.....OB hasn't to date and will not at any time run an offensive scheme conducive for an NFL QB's success. Is that critical enough?

As for Osweiler, based on what the team paid for both his arrival and departure.....someone ducked up royally. The McNairs and RS should've pulled OB aside and told him that you either coach this guy up and help him learn your offense or you'll be packing your bags as well when we have to cut him. OB didn't like Osweiler so he might've done some things that none of us are fully aware of to have such an acidic relationship. OB is the HC so I have to hold him responsible for the mess and the losses the team had to incure to get rid of him.

As for Watson...I personally feel like OB absolutely wanted nothing to do with him initially. Watson's rookie campaign made OB a believer b/c even though Watson only played 6 games, it was enough for OB to hang his hat on while enduring a 4-12 season. Watson and Hopkins essentially saved OB's job the past 3 seasons. Could you apply your critical thinking to this and find 2 better players?
BOB wanted nothing to do with Os or DW4. Those were RS guys. BOB did as good a job as anybody could coaching up Os. Dont believe me? Look at teams that tried to coach up Os in Cleveland and Miami, they weren't able to get as much out of Os as BOB did and now Os is out of the league. Truth is Os was a marginal talent at best with accuracy issues.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
No doubt about it they did .... but ask yourself how much of that was off schedule magic and is that sustainable ?
Great OL and missing wide open receivers while enjoying his time in the pocket or running for his life while extending the plays?
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
BOB wanted nothing to do with Os or DW4. Those were RS guys. BOB did as good a job as anybody could coaching up Os. Dont believe me? Look at teams that tried to coach up Os in Cleveland and Miami, they weren't able to get as much out of Os as BOB did and now Os is out of the league. Truth is Os was a marginal talent at best with accuracy issues.
OB could’ve traded Watson and then put a full court press on signing Tom Brady. He’s about the only QB who has any idea as to what OB is trying to do offensively. The only problem....I don’t think Tom would’ve ever played for OB, regardless of the money that could’ve been offered.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
OB could’ve traded Watson and then put a full court press on signing Tom Brady. He’s about the only QB who has any idea as to what OB is trying to do offensively. The only problem....I don’t think Tom would’ve ever played for OB, regardless of the money that could’ve been offered.
DW4 wasn't/isn't going anywhere for the next 4 yrs.

It fits into the theme of the Texans are a marketing org with a football division.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
DW4 wasn't/isn't going anywhere for the next 4 yrs.

It fits into the theme of the Texans are a marketing org with a football division.
I know you place a higher blame on dw4 then most but imo he's still the only saving grace for the franchise. OB had his shot and he sh*t the bed. My only concern now is did he "Carr" dw?

I cant see myself being passionate about the Texans again until Cal's nuts finally drop and he fires ob.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I know you place a higher blame on dw4 then most but imo he's still the only saving grace for the franchise. OB had his shot and he sh*t the bed. My only concern now is did he "Carr" dw?

I cant see myself being passionate about the Texans again until Cal's nuts finally drop and he fires ob.
Like I've said, I would've fired BOB after 51-7. But what's wrong with DW4 cant be fixed and wont be fixed by the next HC either. Tell me, how many QB's that have run the Clemson offense in college have been successful in the NFL? That's why I have doubts about whether Lawrence is a true cant miss QB. He's ultra talented but I've got my doubts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Great. More fearmongering. In the wrong thread, no less.
Fearmongering?

I just answered a question that was asked of me. Where would you have liked me to answer the question? If you would like please move the question and my answer to whatever thread you feel would be most appropriate.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Like I've said, I would've fired BOB after 51-7. But what's wrong with DW4 cant be fixed and wont be fixed by the next HC either. Tell me, how many QB's that have run the Clemson offense in college have been successful in the NFL? That's why I have doubts about whether Lawrence is a true cant miss QB. He's ultra talented but I've got my doubts.

That's a very solid platform to me and I'm not sure why you catch all the hell here you do.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
That's a very solid platform to me and I'm not sure why you catch all the hell here you do.
Is it really though?

How big of a sample size is the 'clemson offense'? All of about ten or so years of Dabo's time there?

And what was the success rate of qbs from an air raid offense before Mahomes? Or 6 feet and under qbs before Brees or Wilson? Or run heavy qbs before Jackson?
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Is it really though?

How big of a sample size is the 'clemson offense'? All of about ten or so years of Dabo's time there?

And what was the success rate of qbs from an air raid offense before Mahomes? Or 6 feet and under qbs before Brees or Wilson? Or run heavy qbs before Jackson?

Most college hc's dont get 10 years. Name another qb.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
No problem being critical, that's completely fair. But critical of a history with a sample size of one? One nfl caliber qb to come through Dabo's clemson. Well it'll be two after this year and we can just see how Lawrence's very promising career unfolds.
Critical off only 1 because that was the talent they had or just a result of the system?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Open your freaking eyes and you can see. 200 yds rushing. #77 was kicking his a** in the qtr I watched. That's a fact and there's nothing to prove. Now you might want to watch that game and give me your opinion as to why he played a great game instead of spouting off a bunch of useless stats.
I did watch the game and re-watched different plays.
But I am on the road right now I can only tell you a few things:
1. The Bengals are really hurting on the Interior with a guy opting out the year and two or three more (since the beginning of TC) on the shelves.
2. So much so that Reader had to play
56 out of 58 defensive snaps (unheard of to me these days); I'm sure neither him or the coaches wanted him to go all out all the time.
3. That article also mentions that Geno was also out. The interior line is simply a weakness on that D right now.
4. I gave you the highligts for Mayfield and Chubb. You can also watch the overall highlights. And I'm saying that you won't find him as a weakness.
5. As to comments like seeing him on the grass, I'd simply respond with "if your uniform isn't dirty", you're not playing hard enough.
6. I can remember right off the bat two plays he was instrumental or a big key in stopping on the goal line, forcing a turnover on down.
You need guys like that. There are not too many drives per game, if each guy can help force a turnover like that, the D would have hold the opponent to zero point.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I don't mean to frighten anyone of the Ravens offense more than they already are. But Cleveland did a pretty good job of containing Baltimore's running game (3.7 ypc). They also pressured Jackson 9 times. And the Ravens still put up 38 points.

Yikes.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
So if he questions the college system dw came from why argue that?

Why is no one here capable of having a diplomatic back and forth? I don't get it.
Went is it off limits to question the validity of someone argument?

I just had a reasonable back and forth, with you, about Dabo qbs..
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Went is it off limits to question the validity of someone argument?

I just had a reasonable back and forth, with you, about Dabo qbs..
I'm questioning your argument. You didn't name another successful QB in dabo's history. Doesn't that illustrate steelb's point?
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I'm questioning your argument. You didn't name another successful QB in dabo's history. Doesn't that illustrate steelb's point?
Should we continue this and start a thread on college coaches that develop the best pro QBs? Let's at least try to get back on topic.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Should we continue this and start a thread on college coaches that develop the best pro QBs? Let's at least try to get back on topic.
That's actually a very good suggestion. Still, this conversation does relate to the current Texans qb.

I made my case and I dont see a worthwhile response imminent. Do as you like.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Another QB that's run the Clemson offense that's been successful in the NFL. Answer, is you cant name one.
Using this logic, name another team trying to run the Patriots' EP offense that have won a Super Bowl in the past 20 years? How about any former Patriots' OCs who have made it to a Super Bowl trying to be faux Belichick? How about any former Patriots' OC leaving the Patriots and having a top 10 offense?
 
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Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I'm questioning your argument. You didn't name another successful QB in dabo's history. Doesn't that illustrate steelb's point?
I didn't name another one, because there's not. But I did bring up that the nfl-caliber qb talent during Dabos time has been, minus DW and Lawrence, marginal at best. And with a sample size that small are you arguing that it's definitive that the offense is the biggest impediment?
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Again to @Speedy's point. Here we are again


Using this logic, name another team trying to run the Patriots' EP offense that have won a Super Bowl in the past 20 years? How about any former Patriots' OCs who have made it to a Super Bowl trying to be faux Belichick? How about any former Patriots' OC leaving the Patriots and having a top 10 offense?
Did someone question any of that or just the success of Dabo quarterbacks?
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
I didn't name another one, because there's not. But I did bring up that the nfl-caliber qb talent during Dabos time has been, minus DW and Lawrence, marginal at best. And with a sample size that small are you arguing that it's definitive that the offense is the biggest impediment?
Are you arguing it isnt? Isnt it reasonable to wonder with the track record in place if that's a contributing issue? That's all that happened.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Dabo has had mucho success since his ascension to HC in 2010. Watson, Boyd, then Lawrence. It took him roughly 3 seasons to build a CFB juggernaut that matched or exceeded Bama’s success. It would be interesting to measure the NFL success, player wise, between the 2 programs since 2013.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I'm arguing it isn't definitively.
Agree. Besides Watson, has Dabo even had another QB drafted in the first round? How about if any of his QBs besides Watson has started an NFL game? If not, how can anyone make a definitive point?

I could see if we were talking about Jeff Tedford coaching first round QBs like Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, and Aaron Rodgers and all of them except Rodgers did not have great NFL careers. You can draw a conclusion and then Rodgers comes along.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Your faith in this defense covers this entire message board. I see another embarrassing loss, not because of Weaver, but because besides Justin Reid and Lonnie, this defense is straight up garbage! Our offense is probably just as bad. We’re in for a long one boys...
I don't think Weaver has settled on his DBs yet. Off season info said Roby would move inside with Conley and Lonnie on outside.
I don't like to be so insensitive or maybe it's brutally candid but the thing is JJ has now become analogous to the astrodome: not very functional anymore but still very costly but difficult to dispose of because of sentimental reasons.
I think that is a great analogy. I still have fond memories of Astrodome. I'm hoping we can get more out of JJ this season than Houston did out of the 'dome.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Ehh, BS DB don’t try to make this like its about me and my want for “Pom Pom” waving. I’ve got no problems with being critical of the team b/c I’ve been watching football just as long as many folks on this board and present for all the football failure of the the Oilers too. What I’m referring to is the Houston front running fan “perspective” and it’s not limited to BoB’s version of the Texans...or the Texans period. It’s the Astros and Rockets too. Those fans that believe everything about our teams suck and short of us having the best players at every position, they are perpetually waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Those unable to shake the failures of past teams..and come off as if they’re rooting for failure b/c “it’s better radio When they lose”. Those idiots have actually said that and as I said they pander to the fans that espouse that. No back and forth dialogue hardly at all.

I don’t even listen to Vandermeer or any of those players shows except Trap and Wade Smith b/c you don’t get anything from those shows either. What I want...what I’ve ALWAYS wanted was serious sports talk about our teams...not hear or read a bunch of fricking whining about how we’re gonna get our ass kicked by our next opponent. “This is why we suck...” are basically what these shows have turned into.

there are bright spots though. Stoerner does a pretty good job of balancing things out..beyond that...garbage.
I consider myself to be an optimistic fan and have been accused of such. As of today the Texans, Rockets and Astros do suck. The best way in my opinion to keep people from talking about sucking is to stop sucking. The Texans can stop much of the sucky talk Sunday beginning at kick-off. For many fans it doesn't have to be a win, simply play like they are an NFL team not like guys in a uni with NFL patch on it. :tiphat:
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
People keep thinking & expecting for him to do the stuff he was doing in his prime like it was normal & it wasn't. 3-4 DE's weren't supposed to be doing what that kid was doing. As his age and injury history has advanced however, he has now settled into what a 3-4 DE would normally be doing. So if you've been expecting 2012 JJ, then yeah sure, you're gonna be disappointed b/c that guy ain't coming back. He's not that edge threat anymore.......but i'm not sure he ever really was TBH. He made alot of plays circling around out there on twists with the OLB's....but aot of those plays were batted balls something he really doesn't do that anymore. If you really go back & watch JJ in his prime, The lionshare of the plays he made came from him playing from the inside or slicing down inside where he had mismatches against slower guards. Then when his body began to breakdown & Clowney was brought in, Crennel began leaving him out on the edge figuring Clowney would pick up the slack....we all know how that went.

What i saw against the Chiefs is Weaver had him playing more than a few snaps inside on the nose again..I think some out of that was out of neccessity b/c Blacklock hardly played and clearly wasn't ready from what i did see of him...& b/c we were down on our edge guys with Okafor being out again & Grennard inactive. Nevertheless he played fine from my estimations aside from his usual freelancing that opened up gaping holes for Helaire. He still made his fair share of plays in the run game though. The others around him need to step up.....looking at you Merci.
if JJ is no longer an outside threat would you mind asking him to pay back 10 million or so of his cap hit for 2020?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Historically speaking the Texans do have a chance of turning this around. They are 2-5 .285 in the opening game under Billy O so this is pretty much par for the course. Of course the tougher our division gets the harder the turn arounds become.

Regular Season Record
Division: 23-13 .639
AFC not in Division: 19-18 .514
NFC: 10-14 .417
We need improvement tomorrow, then click some Ws over the rest of schedule as it seems we are in preseason mode. No losses to our division yet. Maybe like college it is better to lose early than late.
 


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