That wasn't the rumor at the time.
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Texans Biggest Blunder?
- Thread starter cuppacoffee
- Start date
That wasn't the rumor at the time.
Texansballer74
The Marine
All rumors are not true. The media was doing what they always do, and that’s speculate.
What gives you your opinion?
Who did they draft and where during Smith's entire tenure as GM?
Why would Garopollo's development have exceeded Savage's here? Garopollo came out of a FCS school. He didn't get meaningful snaps until his 3rd season. He was traded in his 4th year, 2017. And Watson was thoroughly outplaying Garopollo at that point. Garopollo turning the Texans into "true contenders" is a pie in the sky narrative without merit.
banned1976
sleeper mode
It’s interesting to think about a “what if” scenario had the Texans drafted a quarterback earlier in the 2014 draft.
My top 3 were Bridgewater (by a mile), Carr, JG. Additionally, I felt Savage should have been an UFA and I was furious when they picked him in the 4th.
I wasn’t opposed at all with the Texans using 1.1 on a defensive player. I felt, and still do that they should have moved back up in the first round and picked Teddy. It would have changed the fortunes of both Bridgewater and the Texans. He could have sat for a year while the Texans bolstered their line.
We all remember the desperate need at quarterback. It was the missing piece to the puzzle.
I’m not trying to convince anyone any of the quarterbacks in the 2014 draft are better than, or more talented than Watson. Just pointing out again that the Texans FO seems to want to fool the rest of the NFL by going against conventional wisdom and their own needs because, after all, they are the smartest men in the room. And it bites them in the ass every time.
The 2014, 15, and 16 Texans would have been better with an upgrade at the QB position. It would have been more enjoyable as a fan to watch a quarterback and not a giraffe behind center in 2016.
My top 3 were Bridgewater (by a mile), Carr, JG. Additionally, I felt Savage should have been an UFA and I was furious when they picked him in the 4th.
I wasn’t opposed at all with the Texans using 1.1 on a defensive player. I felt, and still do that they should have moved back up in the first round and picked Teddy. It would have changed the fortunes of both Bridgewater and the Texans. He could have sat for a year while the Texans bolstered their line.
We all remember the desperate need at quarterback. It was the missing piece to the puzzle.
I’m not trying to convince anyone any of the quarterbacks in the 2014 draft are better than, or more talented than Watson. Just pointing out again that the Texans FO seems to want to fool the rest of the NFL by going against conventional wisdom and their own needs because, after all, they are the smartest men in the room. And it bites them in the ass every time.
The 2014, 15, and 16 Texans would have been better with an upgrade at the QB position. It would have been more enjoyable as a fan to watch a quarterback and not a giraffe behind center in 2016.
If you watched Jimmy G in college, you would've seen how he was successful making good decisions quickly and he had very good accuracy with a very quick release. (Savage never had these qualities) This translated very well in the EP system BB ran and should've translated into the similar system BOB runs. Jimmy G has also been very successful in the WCO Lil Shanny runs.
If you're a numbers guy then you probably wouldn't rated Jimmy G as more than the middle of the pack. If you look at winning he has to be ranked much higher with plenty of room to improve because of the things I listed above and the fact that last yr was his 1st yr as a full time starter.
In fact DW4 has started more games than Jimmy G has and as TB has said many times before, DW4 is a youngster that's still learning. Do you not think Jimmy G can improve as a 1 yr starter in the WCO? I mean if DW4 can improve why cant Jimmy G? Jimmy G would've already made improvements if he had been starting since his rookie yr.
Agreed, but I had Jimmy G as my #1 QB.
Hopefully what you're talking about has changed since RS walked out the door down on Kirby. After this last draft this looks to be the case. I know that you disagree with how they changed how they do business, but in BOB's 1st yr as GM/HC the team made it as far as they ever have in the playoffs.
I can't fault the Texans for not drafting Garoppolo. It's one of those great hindsight exercises. If he was there at #65 and RS passed him out, it would have been another story. The teams picking ahead of the Texans from #55 through #64 did not have a need at QB. No one expected the Patriots to draft Garoppolo.
Kudos to you for having JimmyG as your #1 QB. However, most draft experts did not have him that high. Below are some of the negatives people had about JimmyG. Ironically, they sound very similar to your criticism of the current QB on Kirby. Rick Smith made many draft mistakes, I just don't think not drafting Garoppolo is one of them.
Where Jimmy Garoppolo To Improve
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/1/29/5354688/jimmy-garoppolo-nfl-draft-profile-2014
While there is a lot to like with Garoppolo, there are also some flaws that will need to be fleshed out at the next level in order for him to become an NFL starter. The biggest issue is the fact that Garoppolo has a tendency to drift in the pocket rather than stepping up vertically when under pressure. This can lead to not keeping his eyes downfield and looking at the rush at times.
Playing in the offense he does, Garoppolo wasn't asked to make many anticipation throws though he displayed the ability to throw some during the post-season all-star circuit. His ability to do this on a consistently level is still a big question, however.
Garoppolo is also jittery in some of his movements, almost frenetic with his footwork. It may not mean anything, but it seems to lean to his sometimes feeling pressure and leaving the pocket unnecessarily. It hasn't been a problem to the point of it being a red flag, but it is an issue he's going to have to flesh out.
Weaknesses:
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014bbortles.php
- Above-average, but not great, arm strength
- Level of competition
- Played poorly against some opponents he should have dominated
- His ball flutters some
- Prone to throwing passes late
- Needs to improve anticipation
- Can stare down receivers
- Should continue to improve footwork, mechanics
- Didn't throw every route in college
- Had a limited offensive scheme
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Similar to Carr, there were questions about Garoppolo feeling the rush and getting flustered. With the Texans' OL and coaching staff, I don't know how anyone could be certain he would be able to perform like he did for the Pats or 49ers.
Like I mentioned before. It's all hindsight and at this point, we should just take Elsa's advice and "Let It Go".
This is 1 guys opinion.
I saw him throw with great anticipation and accuracy along with having a very quick release. How can you drift in the pocket when you're getting rid of the ball quickly?
Go back and check out my evals at that time.
Agreed, this is water under the bridge. But I think you would agree RS didn't value the QB position properly.
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Interesting to read this thread. Makes me want to get a drink, and I haven't touched booze in years. 
After reading through it (and there are a LOT of great points by everyone), I think the biggest overall and fundamental blunder is by the owner. Getting scared by the Casserly experience (i.e. traditional strong GM position hierarchy), he changed the front office to the boardroom style inherent with large corporations. It is where McNair felt most comfortable with getting a 'consensus' built among his front office staff.
You can see the inherent dysfunction from that point onward. Casserly, the neutered and on-his-way-out GM, was hiring a head coach and helping make yet another decision with a first overall pick (the second in his short tenure).
Then brand new head coach, plate full with all the new responsibilities, gets to be a part of hiring his own GM.
There were no visionary leaders in the boardroom by that point.
McNair, ever the negotiator, expected these two positions to be seen as equal, so one is responsible for the 90 man roster and the other for actually using those players and cutting them down to 53.
And ultimately what this flawed system did was create a situation where a power vacuum could exist when yet other head coach is hired, this one by the owner himself and without the full support of his GM.
Now that head coach has been able to eradicate his competition and consolidate all of the power. Maybe it works out. We all hope so. But I doubt it. . .
HERE, HAVE ANOTHER. . .
After reading through it (and there are a LOT of great points by everyone), I think the biggest overall and fundamental blunder is by the owner. Getting scared by the Casserly experience (i.e. traditional strong GM position hierarchy), he changed the front office to the boardroom style inherent with large corporations. It is where McNair felt most comfortable with getting a 'consensus' built among his front office staff.
You can see the inherent dysfunction from that point onward. Casserly, the neutered and on-his-way-out GM, was hiring a head coach and helping make yet another decision with a first overall pick (the second in his short tenure).
Then brand new head coach, plate full with all the new responsibilities, gets to be a part of hiring his own GM.
There were no visionary leaders in the boardroom by that point.
McNair, ever the negotiator, expected these two positions to be seen as equal, so one is responsible for the 90 man roster and the other for actually using those players and cutting them down to 53.
And ultimately what this flawed system did was create a situation where a power vacuum could exist when yet other head coach is hired, this one by the owner himself and without the full support of his GM.
Now that head coach has been able to eradicate his competition and consolidate all of the power. Maybe it works out. We all hope so. But I doubt it. . .
HERE, HAVE ANOTHER. . .
Texansballer74
The Marine
It wasn’t just RS, this is where you continuously get it wrong. The McNairs and coaching didn’t value that position to standard. RS was just a pond who did exactly what Kubiak wanted. Then when O’Brien got here, RS went after the quarterbacks OB wanted. Most GM’s go after players who these coaches thinks will fit into their systems.
This is where you fail
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
What do you think has been our biggest blunder since day 1.
So many choices. Entire origination is fair game.
I'll start with the DeAndre Hopkins trade.
I’m going with the grass pallet system and retractable roof...The stadium was hailed as Modern marvel of professional sports stadiums and it was anything but considering that the roof is almost never open and was a bad idea period considering the sweltering heat of Houston at that time of the year period. And the grass pallet system was unsightly as hell from day 1 and wound up being replaced anyway. That **** probably costed us a few free agents, and likely Clowney’s career.
I
I don’t think it was low value for the position. More like poor evaluation & development.
Dim Capers was our HC. It made sense to build a really good defense while the offense got figured out. & it looked like that’s what they were going to do until they decided to draft Carr.
Instead the Texans first 5 years were spent trying to fix David Carr. Back then the money investment was significant, so I get it. But dammm
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Moving grass in and out didn't even sound like a good idea at the time.
Should have learned a lesson from the grass problems in the Astrodome.
mancunian
Old Timer
Eli Manning was 2004 along with Rivers and Roethlisberger. We picked Dunta Robinson. Larry Fitzgerald went that year too
mancunian
Old Timer
Oline would have still been full of holes. A veteran would have or at least should have been able to read the defences better.
That was the opinion of two different guys. I can link more, but as we agree, it's water under the bridge.
This isn't what one of our MB guys that was in the room said.
Let's try to remember what I quoted from you. "I think back then if the Texans had gotten Jimmy G they could've been true contenders." Meaning they would've been contenders earlier. Garopollo has been coached by Belichick, McDaniel, and Shanahan. And still wasn't ready to be a full time starter until year 4. But, you're trying to say Bill O'Brien would have gotten Garopollo ready sooner than these coaches? Bill O'Brien. The Texans coach?
Come on, man.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Thorn knows all about those kind of problems.Moving grass in and out didn't even sound like a good idea at the time.
Should have learned a lesson from the grass problems in the Astrodome.
It was a mistake, but a mistake made with the best intentions. Field Turf was still very new and unproven. The Seahawks had played on it for a couple of years at UW Husky Field while waiting on their new stadium. The Seahawks were going with grass but switched to Field Turf for 2002.
The Rodeo had to have the field removed, so a permanent grass field wasn't going to work. So, that's why they went with removable grass pallets. I understand the plan and the goal. It was the execution. Good Intentions and Poor Execution. That could be the title of a book about the Texans first 20 seasons .
I'm saying if BOB had gotten Jimmy G as a rookie he would've had a chance at having a contender, instead of having to deal with the likee of Fitz/Hoyer/Os.
Also it might be an unpopular opinion around these parts but I believe BOB has gotten DW4's best. He certainly hasn't done a bad job with him. I mean just look at all of the stats TB/UR/Earl post that says DW4's on a par with Mahomes. No way he could do this with bad coaching. Or if you believe any success DW4 has had has nothing to do with coaching, come on man.
It's unpopular because it's not based upon facts. Watson's best year was as a rookie. The more he's coached by O'Brien, the less results we see. Time to let Watson work with someone else. Hopefully, the switch to the Kelly having control will see a difference in this trend.
I don't want to contribute to derailing the biggest blunders, but to be fair, I don't think any reasonable person can say coaching has nothing to do with DW4 success so far. It would be unfair to O'Brien. I have no doubt O'Brien and the staff is teaching him about NFL defenses and are calling the plays.
The question is can he reach his ceiling/potential with BOB and this version of the EP offense? You believe he has reached his ceiling and many others believe he hasn't reached his ceiling or potential. Time will tell.
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One other note about your post. We forget that Sean Ryan was the QB coach for Watson's first two seasons. Ryan was one of the more experienced offensive coaches on staff. Many times, you would find Ryan next to Watson after every drive.
I think Ryan wanted to be an OC and figured out he wouldn't get that opportunity with the Texans and made a lateral move to the Lions. That was unfortunate, because I think we underestimate his influence on Watson's rookie season and development.
https://www.foxsports.com/southwest...on-hes-making-the-steps-we-want-him-to-070718
You have to remember yr 2 he was coming off an ACL and a punctured lung. We have differing opinions on why his play was inconsistent last yr.
I also hope the switch to Kelly will help DW4 find himself, but I've got my doubts.
Agreed
DW4 will never reach his full potential in an EP offense. It doesn't fit his skillset well. It's true that I think DW4's reached his potential regardless of HC. We will see.
Too many of DW4's stats come off broken plays. He is definitely not on the same page as whoever is "coordinating" the offense.
Whether that's BO'bs fault or DW4's fault I can't say. But we've never had a top 15 offense under Bill O'Brien.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The entire team was inconsistent. Coaching was incompetent and inconsistent. That’s a lot for any young quarterback to endure. The play calling was all over the place from game to game.
Kelly is going to run the scheme O’Brien wants. If he doesn’t and we start off 0-4 you can best believe Kelly will get demoted and OB will take back over OC duties.
This will be another Texans blunder.
Agree. Maybe the blunder was hiring O'Brien and his version of the EP offense.
I find it interesting the Titans' HC (Mike Vrabel) and GM (Jon Robinson) both have deeper ties to the Patriots than O'Brien and when they had the opportunity to run a team together, they decided on hiring a WCO offense coach (Matt LaFleur) and even after he left for the Packers, they are still running WCO.
They didn't try to create their version of Patriots' South. Maybe they know trying to duplicate the Patriots Way without Brady and Belichick is a fool's errand.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
The Titans are going to be a big time threat. I think the WCO is more QB friendly than the EP. EP has more thinking involved
Agree and it's not just the QB having to think. It's also the WRs and TEs. Look at the Patriots' last six games. You can see Brady chewing out WRs, motioning them and being visibly frustrated by their route running.
Can you imagine Coutee coming out of that Texas Tech offense and their simple route tree? He gets to the Texans and now he's having to read coverages, be on the same page as his QB and even having to run routes not only based on the coverage, but the technique the DBs are using?
It's probably another reason why O'Brien has never had a productive slot WR in his offense. Hopefully, Cobb will be the solution.
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TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
*reads thread*
*climbs roof*
*climbs roof*
I wouldn't think any team could win 9 games in a row in the NFL with a QB that had a punctured lung with incompetent coaching.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
scheduling and timing of those games enhanced by key opponent injury's. KC game in focus with Gimpy, should not have played, yet almost won despite that, Mahomes.
lets first see if they even play 2020 season. then pray there is a season, tougher schedule, will not net you 9 wins. maybe 6? hey, its alright, if O'Brian doesn't trade another first Texans might actually have a first round pick, wait is that still another year? Pathetic
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I wouldn't write off Gaine just yet. otherwise hell yes
Texansballer74
The Marine
Quite a few of those games we won because of luck and boneheaded mistakes by the opposing coaches. Fools gold is what we call it.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
I don’t care what it’s like to work with Nuke. I knew that on Sunday’s he delivered. from what we’ve read fat Travolta is very difficult to workwith also and that clown isn’t nearly as good at either of his TWO jobs as nuke is at his. But he kept his job and was rewarded with greater responsibility despite his postseason ineptitude.
the WR unit could be productive but that depends too much on a WR thats had multiple concussions and another that is about as reliable as a 2005 Kia.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
.....except for those crazy first 6 games in Watson's career. OB couldn't be OB so he had to do something different to accommodate Watson's skill-set. End result....one of the best NFL offenses, both in production and scoring, during that stretch. OB got back to his offense and the Texans quickly returned to their usual position in the offensive rankings.
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When is the last time a team won 9 games in a row? It doesn't happen very often.
Do other teams occasionally win when their opponents miss he fg's?
And you really believe Watson has turned this team into a true contender ?
I don't .... and that's no knock on Watson but on the organization as a whole and the nature of the sport.
Inept coach.
Cluster <insert 4 letter word here> offense
Pathetic secondary
Weak pass rush
Who's playing the nose ?
Can anyone cover a TE ?
How many 1st round picks invested in an OL that can't seem to do anything right ?!
Best part of this team has been its special teams .... and they really haven't been special.
Nope - Not a contender.
I think it's more accurate to say that DW4 has gotten the best best of OB and it's been a downhill slide the more OB has been able to influence DW4. OB has taken Michael Jordan and turned him into Sam Bowie.
This post reminds of the comment. The only man to ever stop Michael Jordan was Dean Smith.
Can you show me where I said, or even suggested, that?
Texansballer74
The Marine
So with all this stuff you just stated, do you think Jimmy G would’ve made this team a true contender?
The special teams play has been very inconsistent over O’Brien tenure her as well.
Nothing has clicked together at the same time for this team as well as so many other teams.
Will this be the year, I highly doubt it. So you’re right, we are not contenders.