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Texans Biggest Blunder?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
And no team that paid their RB over 13 mil has ever won a championship. We were screwed already anyways.
Good thing is after this season they can clear DJ's salary from the books very easily. If they sign DW4 to a contract like you're talking about they're going to be stuck with that contract for 3-5 yrs.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
It's not really throwing somebody under the bus when that persons incompetence caused the issues. Some of those issues still haven't been cleaned up today.
Smith was not incompetent like that. You don’t make it that for in the game being incompetent Steel. This organization been in limbo way before Rick Smith. So let’s not paint that type of picture like it was his fault.

I’ve worked with people who throw you under the bus just to save their jobs. And imo he threw him and several other people under the bus aka scapegoat.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Smith was not incompetent like that. You don’t make it that for in the game being incompetent Steel. This organization been in limbo way before Rick Smith. So let’s not paint that type of picture like it was his fault.

I’ve worked with people who throw you under the bus just to save their jobs. And imo he threw him and several other people under the bus aka scapegoat.
Over a decade of failure but he wasn't incompetent? What would it take for you to consider a person incompetent? 2 different regimes too, I really blame Kubiak for the RS debacle. He brought RS on board. Kubiak ultimately paid the price when RS through Kubiak under the bus. Although I disagree with you about BOB throwing RS under the bus, if I'm wrong then this was nothing more than what goes around comes around. RS got the karma that was coming to him.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Smith was not incompetent like that. You don’t make it that for in the game being incompetent Steel. This organization been in limbo way before Rick Smith. So let’s not paint that type of picture like it was his fault.

I’ve worked with people who throw you under the bus just to save their jobs. And imo he threw him and several other people under the bus aka scapegoat.

In general , I think Smith was pretty good as a GM / talent evaluator and he kept competent scouts and contract people around him , he hit a good many picks and even those he whiffed on , there was usually reason to think otherwise.

But I can tell you without a doubt that his philosophy on the QB position was the reason both he and Kubiak are no longer here - It took a demand from the owner to get him to draft Watson , otherwise we'd still be riding the QB carousel - unless he lucked into one of those late round picks.
By the time he had drafted Watson , the damage was already done , his fate was sealed.

He was a hell of a lot better than what we have at GM now .... despite his QB philosophy he kept the team competitive and out of cap hell.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In general , I think Smith was pretty good as a GM / talent evaluator and he kept competent scouts and contract people around him , he hit a good many picks and even those he whiffed on , there was usually reason to think otherwise.

But I can tell you without a doubt that his philosophy on the QB position was the reason both he and Kubiak are no longer here - It took a demand from the owner to get him to draft Watson , otherwise we'd still be riding the QB carousel - unless he lucked into one of those late round picks.
By the time he had drafted Watson , the damage was already done , his fate was sealed.

He was a hell of a lot better than what we have at GM now .... despite his QB philosophy he kept the team competitive and out of cap hell.
It's pretty easy to stay out of cap hell when you dont have to pay the QB position. The Texans have plenty of cap space available and will have even more available in 2021. So BOB's done a good job maintaining cap flexibility. As far as the other part of being a GM, the roster is more talented and deeper than it ever was under RS. Did you like this yrs Texans draft? I did
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
In general , I think Smith was pretty good as a GM / talent evaluator and he kept competent scouts and contract people around him , he hit a good many picks and even those he whiffed on , there was usually reason to think otherwise.

But I can tell you without a doubt that his philosophy on the QB position was the reason both he and Kubiak are no longer here - It took a demand from the owner to get him to draft Watson , otherwise we'd still be riding the QB carousel - unless he lucked into one of those late round picks.
By the time he had drafted Watson , the damage was already done , his fate was sealed.

He was a hell of a lot better than what we have at GM now .... despite his QB philosophy he kept the team competitive and out of cap hell.
Kubiak, Smith and their time with the Broncos proved one thing.....that organization never wanted to pay OL and they felt any late RD draft choice could get the job done....they could when the chop block was a big part of the ZBS. They never got away from that mindset, even after the chop block was removed from the game.

In regards to the QB position, Kubiak felt like he could make any reasonable QB functional to very good in his WCO system. AJ and AF made the offense tick here in Houston. Schaub was good but his arm strength surely robbed AJ of 10+ additional TD's a season. I can say that Schaub had one of if not the finest play-fake in the game....AF played a big part in that effectiveness.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
In general , I think Smith was pretty good as a GM / talent evaluator and he kept competent scouts and contract people around him , he hit a good many picks and even those he whiffed on , there was usually reason to think otherwise.

But I can tell you without a doubt that his philosophy on the QB position was the reason both he and Kubiak are no longer here - It took a demand from the owner to get him to draft Watson , otherwise we'd still be riding the QB carousel - unless he lucked into one of those late round picks.
By the time he had drafted Watson , the damage was already done , his fate was sealed.

He was a hell of a lot better than what we have at GM now .... despite his QB philosophy he kept the team competitive and out of cap hell.

That’s all true but when O’Brien got here those quarterbacks in the beginning were his pickings. There wasn’t no big time quarterbacks available in free agency during that time. McNair got ticked off because of the way Obrien was handling those quarterbacks. I never in life seen on the professional level quarterbacks getting benched like that. You see there’s more to the story.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Over a decade of failure but he wasn't incompetent? What would it take for you to consider a person incompetent? 2 different regimes too, I really blame Kubiak for the RS debacle. He brought RS on board. Kubiak ultimately paid the price when RS through Kubiak under the bus. Although I disagree with you about BOB throwing RS under the bus, if I'm wrong then this was nothing more than what goes around comes around. RS got the karma that was coming to him.
All because you don’t think he was good doesn’t mean he was incompetent. Those are some strong hateful words to describe someone you never worked side by side with. Again he wasn’t the best but he’s far from being incompetent . I can guarantee you people in the circuit thinks highly of him.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
Trading away premium talent for pennies on the dollar like Hopkins and Clowney.

Oz signing and trade.

Ignoring the ol and poor talent evaluation there for roughly 4-5 years.

Management and loss of Duane Brown.

Offseason pursuit of the Pat's guy (forget his name) for gm and canning Gaine to do it.

Clock management- since inception.

Challenges- since inception.

Medical team evals and rehab management- since inception.

Promoting Frank Bush to DC and keeping him there far to long.

Vic Fangio. Why was he a bum for us and a stud for san Francisco?

Hiring Chris Palmer because of his offensive scheme and then forcing him to use a different offense.

Spending millions on a retractable stadium roof we dont use.

Ladders. Yup, I said it. Somehow they sold us a story on ladders fixing Carr. I believed it to. That worked out about as well as the x-ray glasses I bought out the back of a catalogue once. I still think of him everytime I see a ladder.

Bennie joppru. Is he still on the Ir? Next year he'll be back better then ever.

Phillip Buchanan? A 2nd round pick? Whatda ya mean you didn't watch film?

Tony Hollings. Arghh.

Tytus Howard. We really need a left tackle so let's draft one. But let's try him at LG. No wait, Rg. Hmmm, maybe Rt? What do ya mean we need a Lt? We just spent 2 months training this guy every where but Lt.

Any affiliation with Spencer Tillman. Like smoke through a keyhole, the sound of his voice makes me wanna jump off a roof top. Now I'm just being spiteful.

I can keep going...
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
All because you don’t think he was good doesn’t mean he was incompetent. Those are some strong hateful words to describe someone you never worked side by side with. Again he wasn’t the best but he’s far from being incompetent . I can guarantee you people in the circuit thinks highly of him.
Incompetent isn't a hateful word. It describes very well somebody that wasn't good at his job and after 12 yrs of evidence that's a very good description of the job he did. I mean we've talked ad nauseum about his bad drafts, poor signings like when Kubiak didn't want to re-sign Schaub but RS did it anyway. The Peyton Manning thingy etc....
 
To do this subject properly, you need a comprehensive list of the "Texans Blunders".

So hold onto your hats these are the many and massive "Texans Blunders" listed chronologically.

(If anyone has any doubt about why this franchise is in the state it is in, here is why.)


Hiring Charley Casserly as GM.

2002)
Drafting Tony Boselli (1st Round) in Expansion Draft (never played a down for the Texans)

Drafting Draft David Carr QB (1st Round) in the 2002 NFL Draft (Draft Bust)





2003)
Drafting Bennie Joppru TE (2nd Round) in the 2003 NFL Draft (never played a down for the Texans)

Drafting Tony Hollings RB (2nd Round) in the 2003 Supplemental NFL Draft ( Huge Draft Bust)

Drafting Dave Ragone QB (3rd Round) in the 2003 NFL Draft (After Drafting Carr the year before,(Draft Bust)


2005)
Giving David Carr a 3 year Contract Extension (then cutting him in 2006)

Getting fleeced by the Raiders in the Trade of the Texans 2005 2nd Round pick for CB Phillip Buchanon (an already established Draft Bust)

Drafting Travis Johnson DT (1st Round) in the 2005 NFL Draft


2009)
Letting Dunta Robinson (Pay me Rick) go FA for nothing.


2011)
Drafting Brandon Harris CB (2nd Round) in the 2011 NFL Draft (Draft Bust)


2012)
Giving Mat Shaub a 4 year Contract Extention (then Cutting him in 2013)

Not Signing Peyton Manning when he wanted to sign with the Texans

Letting Mario Williams go FA for nothing.

2013)
Signing Ed Reed S as a Free Agent (Ridiculous Free Agent Bust)

Letting Glover Quin leave as FA (Because you signed Ed Reed)

Drafting DJ Swearinger S (2nd Round) in the 2013 NFL Draft (Draft Bust)

Drafting Sam Montgomery (3rd Round) in the 2014 NFL Draft ( Monstrous Draft Bust (Cut in the middle of the year))

2014)
Hiring Bill O'Brian as HC

Drafting Xavier Su'a-Filo G (2nd Round) in the 2014 NFL Draft ( Monstrous Draft Bust)

Drafting Louis Nix III NT (3rd Round) in the 2014 NFL Draft ( Huge Draft Bust)


2016}
Signing as a Brock Osweiier Free Agent (Legendary Free Agent Bust)
Signing Jeff Allen G as a Free Agent (Free Agent Bust)

2017}
Giving Cleveland a 2017 2nd Round Draft Pick to take Brock Osweiier QB contract, rather just cutting him, and taking the Dead Money Hit. (Huge Draft Blunder)

Not signing A. J. Bouye with the cap money saved by the Brock trade, and allowing him to leave as a FA

Signing C.J. Fiedorowicz to a new contract and then having him retire in 2018

2018)
Drafting Martinas Rankin OT in the 3rd Round (Draft Bust) when we desperately needed OL


2019)
Hiring Jack Easterby (also known as Rasputin)

Firing GM Brian Gaine, the fiasco with Nick Caserio.

Not hiring a New GM

Trading Jadeveon Clowney for a 3rd Round pick AND paying $7MM of his 2019 cap hit.

Trading 2 1st Round and 1 2nd Round draft picks for Laremy Tunsil OT


2020)
Making Bill O'Brian GM

Firing Chris Olsen

Trading DeAndre Hopkins for a 2nd Round pick AND David Johnson and his Terrible Contract (one of the worst trades in NFL History)


Take a shot at forced ranking this mess.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Incompetent isn't a hateful word. It describes very well somebody that wasn't good at his job and after 12 yrs of evidence that's a very good description of the job he did. I mean we've talked ad nauseum about his bad drafts, poor signings like when Kubiak didn't want to re-sign Schaub but RS did it anyway. The Peyton Manning thingy etc....
That’s only your opinion. Again show me a clip of someone in this field saying he was incompetent. Dude brought good talent here . You never like RS and clearly you never will.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s all true but when O’Brien got here those quarterbacks in the beginning were his pickings. There wasn’t no big time quarterbacks available in free agency during that time. McNair got ticked off because of the way Obrien was handling those quarterbacks. I never in life seen on the professional level quarterbacks getting benched like that. You see there’s more to the story.
There is more to the story indeed. The 1st draft with RS as GM and BOB as HC Jimmy G was there for the taking and BOB wanted Jimmy G but RS decided to wait and try to get Jimmy G at the top of the 3rd. We all know how far that set back the franchise because it lead to the Fitz/Hoyer/Mallet etc... RS negligence of the QB position (the most important in sports) is the main reason I call RS incompetent. I mean what kind of guy avoids the QB position like the plague, much less a NFL GM?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I brought up Carr as an example of a cycle of blunders in early Texans history. Perhaps Casserly should have been my suggestion. His hiring is certainly another great example of stupid mistakes.

Carr was never a leader of men. He was never a player that strove to be the best. He was notorious for last in and first to leave. He had terrible film study habits. He was not a student of the game. He resisted efforts to improve his game. This is clear of his career with every team he joined.

And clearly, he was a terrible pick to be a starting QB in the NFL without earning it.

He was picked because he had a square jawline and was good looking on 3D souvenir cups and other merchandise. He was given the starting job simply as a marketing decision.

It's not necessarily his fault. It's the Texans fault for putting all their eggs in one basket, and then not giving him the coaching support to teach him up. They didn't do their homework. They were given sound advice to go in other directions (which they obviously ignored). They were heavily marketing a new billion dollar entertainment company. Creating a public image and game day experience was far more important to the owner than the actual product on the field.

And it clearly revealed the priorities of the Texans front office and owner.

Charlie Casserly was a terrible pick for GM. He was the proverbial "kick me" sign on McNair's back, something I'm sure the other owners chuckled at because he was duped. There is a reason Casserly never worked as a GM in the NFL again, in spite of his three Super Bowl rings from the Redskins.

So maybe picking Carr was just a symptom of inherent dysfunction in the Texans overall M.O.

That said, he (and his "Fresno Mafia") were arrogant (we've got their nasty attitudes recorded in their own words on this forum's history), so he will continue to be the prime example of early Texans blunders in my book.
The GM blunders were the worst.

The Texans have hired 4 GM's in their history. The 1st three GM hires will never be GM's in the NFL again. That record speaks volumes.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
There is more to the story indeed. The 1st draft with RS as GM and BOB as HC Jimmy G was there for the taking and BOB wanted Jimmy G but RS decided to wait and try to get Jimmy G at the top of the 3rd. We all know how far that set back the franchise because it lead to the Fitz/Hoyer/Mallet etc... RS negligence of the QB position (the most important in sports) is the main reason I call RS incompetent. I mean what kind of guy avoids the QB position like the plague, much less a NFL GM?


The head coach didn't want him either. Plus dude wouldn't last in this system behind that atrocious offensive line.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The head coach didn't want him either. Plus dude wouldn't last in this system behind that atrocious offensive line.
What makes you think this?

We never got the chance.

I'm just glad we no longer have to go through this exercise any more. If the Texans fail we know exactly who caused this failure. BTW, it must really bother you that in BOB's 1st yr as GM/HC he got the Texans as far as they've ever gotten in the playoffs.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
The coaching and players have to get it done. Let's not act like we didn't have the talent to achieve that. 10-6 then 12-4 . Those teams could've should've gotten it done.
I actually liked rs. He was professional in every sense and a great face for the organization. I'm sure he was/is a great business man. He was just lacking in one area. Talent evaluation be it players or coaches.

He had a long tenure. We didn't get it done.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Why do you pick this?
Reflection of mind set from beginning. Only thing and I mean only thing, from drafting process, free agency and player retention that has impacted the majority of mistakes, are self inflicted. Sure Texans have had their share of bad luck too, but so does every team. It’s the mindset of truly taking vested interest in people who work for you even if they’re not in perfect alignment. Building from those differences to be part of a bigger whole and having your players back, even when they make mistakes. We’re all human.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The Texans have plenty of cap space available and will have even more available in 2021. So BOB's done a good job maintaining cap flexibility.
Wait... wuuuuut!? At times you say there's a lot of cap space because the McNairs are cheap. Now you say there's a lot of cap space because our savvy GM is doing a good job maintaining cap flexibility? Which is it?
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
In general , I think Smith was pretty good as a GM / talent evaluator and he kept competent scouts and contract people around him , he hit a good many picks and even those he whiffed on , there was usually reason to think otherwise.

But I can tell you without a doubt that his philosophy on the QB position was the reason both he and Kubiak are no longer here - It took a demand from the owner to get him to draft Watson , otherwise we'd still be riding the QB carousel - unless he lucked into one of those late round picks.
By the time he had drafted Watson , the damage was already done , his fate was sealed.

He was a hell of a lot better than what we have at GM now .... despite his QB philosophy he kept the team competitive and out of cap hell.
I don't understand... what's his QB philosophy? He moved on from David Carr when he arrived and traded for a (would be) pro-bowl level QB. It wasn't until BOB arrived that they went into a QB carousel.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Wait... wuuuuut!? At times you say there's a lot of cap space because the McNairs are cheap. Now you say there's a lot of cap space because our savvy GM is doing a good job maintaining cap flexibility? Which is it?
The McNair's are cheap which is why it doesn't matter who the GM is they wont spend $$$$ in FA and beause of this and the fact they are a marketing team with a football division, putting style over substance they wont be winning championships for the next 5 yrs and probably wont until the McNair's sell the team.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't understand... what's his QB philosophy? He moved on from David Carr when he arrived and traded for a (would be) pro-bowl level QB. It wasn't until BOB arrived that they went into a QB carousel.
They didn't have a QB and RS wouldn't draft a QB so the QB carousel continued on and on.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The McNair's are cheap which is why it doesn't matter who the GM is they wont spend $$$$ in FA and beause of this and the fact they are a marketing team with a football division, putting style over substance they wont be winning championships for the next 5 yrs and probably wont until the McNair's sell the team.
Ok... so the flexible cap space has nothing to do with our GM.
 

NitroGSXR

Super Sic #58
I’m gonna go with selecting a defensive-minded and wildly inexperienced coach while picking a franchise QB in our first draft. It sent a mixed message to me. We
going defense or we going offense?


Everybody loves to hate on Rick Smith but I do think that Capers really had a bigger hand in all of our poor selections those first two years. Seriously, has any team had such horrific results from drafting? It got better after he left. THAT is a fact.

It’s ironic that we selected him for his “experience” in running a new franchise when the truth was... he didn’t have much experience running things at all.

Dom “Doom” Capers.

Ugh.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Besides Jimmy G, who should have he drafted? (BTW) I'm glad he didn't draft Jimmy.
I would have to look back into those drafts, but I'm sure in 12 yrs they could've found a QB. If they couldn't then there were other issues. Mahomes for 1 to answer your question, Wilson etc....

Why dont you like Jimmy G. ? Made the SB in his 1st yr as a full time starter. Look at the guys record and you will see this guys a winner.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I would have to look back into those drafts, but I'm sure in 12 yrs they could've found a QB. If they couldn't then there were other issues. Mahomes for 1 to answer your question, Wilson etc....

Why dont you like Jimmy G. ? Made the SB in his 1st yr as a full time starter. Look at the guys record and you will see this guys a winner.

Great running game and elite defense. And in the playoffs Jimmy didn’t do anything special. A lot of my 49ers buddies want him gone.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I would have to look back into those drafts, but I'm sure in 12 yrs they could've found a QB. If they couldn't then there were other issues. Mahomes for 1 to answer your question, Wilson etc....

Why dont you like Jimmy G. ? Made the SB in his 1st yr as a full time starter. Look at the guys record and you will see this guys a winner.
12 years? So you didn't like Schaub and thought they should have replaced him immediately?

IMO, Jimmy G is a solid QB. I put him at the same level as Schaub, Kirk Cousins, Matt Hasselbeck. Those type of guys. I think we would have been stuck in QB purgatory with Jimmy. Good enough to convince a team they don't have to look for a new QB, but not good enough to carry a team to win a SB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Great running game and elite defense. And in the playoffs Jimmy didn’t do anything special. A lot of my 49ers buddies want him gone.
When he 1st got traded to the 49ers in the middle of the season they were bad. Jimmy G started something like the last 6 games of that season and won them all. Then the next season started a couple of games and blew out his knee and the team went 2-14. Then last season Jimmy G's 1st to start a full season and they make the SB, almost winning it. Also look at how Jimmy G operated the Pats offense when Brady was suspended.

How anybody is happy they didn't draft Jimmy G when the Texans had to suffer through 4 yrs of Fitz/Hoyer/Os etc.... is beyond me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
12 years? So you didn't like Schaub and thought they should have replaced him immediately?

IMO, Jimmy G is a solid QB. I put him at the same level as Schaub, Kirk Cousins, Matt Hasselbeck. Those type of guys. I think we would have been stuck in QB purgatory with Jimmy. Good enough to convince a team they don't have to look for a new QB, but not good enough to carry a team to win a SB.
Nope, but somewhere along the way he should've listened to Kubiak and drafted a QB to develop, they would probably all still be employed by the Texans if he had done this.

Jimmy G did pretty good last yr as his 1st yr as a full time starter.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Nope, but somewhere along the way he should've listened to Kubiak and drafted a QB to develop, they would probably all still be employed by the Texans if he had done this.

Jimmy G did pretty good last yr as his 1st yr as a full time starter.
Jimmy was solid last year, but that team advancing in the playoffs had nothing to do with Jimmy. And when they needed Jimmy to step up, he couldn't. Like I said, solid, but not special.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Jimmy was solid last year, but that team advancing in the playoffs had nothing to do with Jimmy. And when they needed Jimmy to step up, he couldn't. Like I said, solid, but not special.
Not bad for a 1st yr starter.

Dont you wish the Texans would've drafted him and avoided Fitz/Hoyer/Os yrs?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You as usual missed the point. Kubiak had his quarterback. He wanted him that’s why we got him from Atlanta.

O’Brien wanted a veteran and retreads from New England.
I didn't miss the point at all.

The point is RS got Kubiak the QB he wanted. RS didn't do that for BOB (Jimmy G/Mahomes) and it ended up costing RS his job.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No. Because drafting him wouldn't have landed us Watson. I think Watson's ceiling is higher than Jimmy.
So you were willing to go through 4 seasons of terrible QB play just to get DW4?

I disagree with your take on Jimmy G and DW4 though. Please lets not turn this into another DW4 thread.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agreed. So we'll just end it here. Have a good one!
Question would you rather have had Jimmy G on those teams when the Texans had very good defenses and weapons on offense, or DW4 with the weapons he has now and the defense they currently have?

I think back then if the Texans had gotten Jimmy G they could've been true contenders.
 


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