Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Texans Biggest Blunder?

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
To me, I don't care how we acquire players... draft, trade, free agency. What I do care about is getting good value. Unfortunately, there's this salary cap thing we have to worry about.

The great thing about acquiring a good player via draft, is you have GREAT value on that player for 5 years.

Tunsil is a good player, and I highly doubt we could have gotten a better player via draft. But if I ask whether we got Tunsil at good value, he's nowhere close. We gave up two 1sts, and now the most expensive OLineman in the league.

@Mr teX mentioned the JJo/Manning acquisitions. Those were great acquisitions because it was such great value. Instead of overpaying for Asomugha, we got the better value with JJo/Manning.
The bolded is only for a 1st round draft pick. In other rounds, you have great value for 3 seasons, then you need to be looking to extend a player who played well over his 1st 3 seasons. Unless I'm wrong about that. In that case, please ignore and carry on.
 
The bottom line is that IF Watson is not happy or has shown his best...we are 8-8/10-6. I understand that DHop was his friend and he is upset he was traded. However, in the NFL stuff like this happens all the time. We have no idea what Johnson will do it could be great but could be injury (which can be said for any player). But, Watson must be an adult and get on the same page as everyone else. Like it or not. Until he is doing that, the biggest mistake in recent years is a QB who has talent but acts like a 5yr old at Christmas who didn't get that one toy they really want.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans!!!
The bottom line is that IF Watson is not happy or has shown his best...we are 8-8/10-6. I understand that DHop was his friend and he is upset he was traded. However, in the NFL stuff like this happens all the time. We have no idea what Johnson will do it could be great but could be injury (which can be said for any player). But, Watson must be an adult and get on the same page as everyone else. Like it or not. Until he is doing that, the biggest mistake in recent years is a QB who has talent but acts like a 5yr old at Christmas who didn't get that one toy they really want.
.....are you holding OB to the same criteria? He’s the one who’s changed QB’s like underwear with mediocre results......skid stains still visiable.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The bottom line is that IF Watson is not happy or has shown his best...we are 8-8/10-6. I understand that DHop was his friend and he is upset he was traded. However, in the NFL stuff like this happens all the time. We have no idea what Johnson will do it could be great but could be injury (which can be said for any player). But, Watson must be an adult and get on the same page as everyone else. Like it or not. Until he is doing that, the biggest mistake in recent years is a QB who has talent but acts like a 5yr old at Christmas who didn't get that one toy they really want.
If this happens it's time to trade him and move on.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The bottom line is that IF Watson is not happy or has shown his best...we are 8-8/10-6. I understand that DHop was his friend and he is upset he was traded. However, in the NFL stuff like this happens all the time. We have no idea what Johnson will do it could be great but could be injury (which can be said for any player). But, Watson must be an adult and get on the same page as everyone else. Like it or not. Until he is doing that, the biggest mistake in recent years is a QB who has talent but acts like a 5yr old at Christmas who didn't get that one toy they really want.
What warrants this comment? Are there any signs of Watson being unhappy? Watson has had workouts this offseason with Cooks, so he's shown signs of moving on from Nuk.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
I don't see elite talent on this OL at any position. I see average at best.


If he was worth that $22m per , you would expect to be able to run behind him and get a yard when you need it against anyone at all. They Cant.
Kinda funny that they ran right behind Howard / Clark / Johnson than behind Tunsil .... They were also more productive in running right.
I cant disagree with your sentiment because I dont remember getting those desperate hard rushing yards behind tunsil.

That said, I wonder if the nfl as a whole rushes more often and has more success running right because thats where the te is normally lined up?

Either way, stay healthy and cut the false starts in half. That'd be a plus.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Value is a sliding scale and is relative. J-Jo and Manning were great value acquisitions in your eyes b/c they performed and the defense improved dramatically. Tell me, would you still think they were good “value” acquisitions if the Other members of the secondary still kept the defense from ascending and we were largely still terrible on that side of the ball? Probably not.
I would think they were good value if they played well, regardless of the overall performance of the defense. I actually don't quite understand this question. You mean like how we added Tunsil to improve the offense, but they actually scored less per game in 2019? Did adding Tunsil really improve the overall performance of the offense?

You guys are comparing the Tunsil acquisition to the undisputed best case scenario of drafting or acquiring a pro bowl caliber LT who can start for u right out of the gate...& getting all that for pennies on the dollar...Sure it is possible and we would’ve all preferred that, but we all know those caliber of guys don’t come available...especially LT’s and 2, the draft itself is a crapshoot. What good does it do to have a player under control for 5 years if said player sucks? How much value does a player have if he’s just been mediocore to bad for all those 5 years?

Dream, your doing the same thing Corrosion is doing, overvaluing draft picks and undervaluing what it means to the team, offensive line as a whole and DW4 to have a guy like Tunsil protecting his blindside.
Once again, re-read my post. I said I don't care how we acquire players, whether it's via draft, trade, free agency. All I care about is getting good value. Sure, I agree, acquiring Tunsil is a much safer play than drafting a rookie... but my problem is we overpaid for that assurance. Once again, it's all about value for me.

more often than not, with star players you’re going to overpay, that’s just how it goes. so this notion that Tunsil had us “over the barrel” b/c we paid what we did to acquire him is nonsense. Any player who plays well and/or adds significant value to his team has his team over the Proverbial barrel...that is in theory and if the team wants him to come back.

Tunsil’s value since arriving here is noted in a ton less sacks for DW4, a pro bowl nod and an instant upgrade and solidification at a position that was largely a revolving door before him; and that is value that you got immediately..you didn’t have to wait a year or 2 to see like you most likely would’ve if you took a chance on some rookie.
Despite my stance on overpaying, I'm glad Tunsil is here. I just think the GM did a poor job of making sure we got better value for him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I would think they were good value if they played well, regardless of the overall performance of the defense. I actually don't quite understand this question. You mean like how we added Tunsil to improve the offense, but they actually scored less per game in 2019? Did adding Tunsil really improve the overall performance of the offense?



Once again, re-read my post. I said I don't care how we acquire players, whether it's via draft, trade, free agency. All I care about is getting good value. Sure, I agree, acquiring Tunsil is a much safer play than drafting a rookie... but my problem is we overpaid for that assurance. Once again, it's all about value for me.



Despite my stance on overpaying, I'm glad Tunsil is here. I just think the GM did a poor job of making sure we got better value for him.
I dont care about PPG, I care about DW4 being well protected. Yr before last they scored a few more PPG but DW$ got the crap beat out of him and he's not going to last getting hit like he did.

You have to pay more for assurance. Seeing that the Texans would've had to trade into the top 10 to get an OT that MIGHT be as good as Tunsil the trade value was fair. I guess this depends on if you think a 2nd is worth Stills and a 4th. Also I guess your opinion could be different than mine if you dont think Tunsil can improve and that his best football is ahead of him. I'm just glad the OT posiions are solidified for the foreseeable future. Particularly after having to watch Davenport/Lamm.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I dont care about PPG, I care about DW4 being well protected. Yr before last they scored a few more PPG but DW$ got the crap beat out of him and he's not going to last getting hit like he did.

You have to pay more for assurance. Seeing that the Texans would've had to trade into the top 10 to get an OT that MIGHT be as good as Tunsil the trade value was fair. I guess this depends on if you think a 2nd is worth Stills and a 4th. Also I guess your opinion could be different than mine if you dont think Tunsil can improve and that his best football is ahead of him. I'm just glad the OT posiions are solidified for the foreseeable future. Particularly after having to watch Davenport/Lamm.
NO. A 2nd is NOT worth Stills and a 4th.

We just traded a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th.

Are you suggesting Kenny Stills and Brandin Cooks have the same value?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I would think they were good value if they played well, regardless of the overall performance of the defense. I actually don't quite understand this question. You mean like how we added Tunsil to improve the offense, but they actually scored less per game in 2019? Did adding Tunsil really improve the overall performance of the offense?
Yes he did & the offense did improve in the face of playing a much tougher schedule than they did in 2018. & contrary to what has been said on here, They did run the ball a bit better & were very often running to Tunsil's side to get those tough yards; check that KC game & see where Hyde was cutting back to in the end zone. They also gave up less sacks & The offense overall looked more consistent than they did in 2018. Value isn't just limited to how well they as individuals play, its also what you're bringing to the team. You see it time and time again where a star player is traded to a bad/mediocore team & although the star player produces, the overall team is still bad. The most recent example of this is OBJ. This wasn't the case with Tunsil.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I dont care about PPG, I care about DW4 being well protected. Yr before last they scored a few more PPG but DW$ got the crap beat out of him and he's not going to last getting hit like he did.

You have to pay more for assurance. Seeing that the Texans would've had to trade into the top 10 to get an OT that MIGHT be as good as Tunsil the trade value was fair. I guess this depends on if you think a 2nd is worth Stills and a 4th. Also I guess your opinion could be different than mine if you dont think Tunsil can improve and that his best football is ahead of him. I'm just glad the OT posiions are solidified for the foreseeable future. Particularly after having to watch Davenport/Lamm.
You don't care about PPG? Aren't you the one that keeps bringing up that Kubiak's best PPG season is only marginally higher than BOB's?

I also didn't realize you care about DW4 so much. I thought you want the Texans to move on from him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My question, do you feel they were coached up enough to be the Texans QB1 for the next 3-4 seasons after their first start?
They were never QB1's to begin with. BOB got the best out of what he had to work with. He never had a QB1 until DW4. The question is why and one of our insider MB's has told us why. Some just dont choose to believe him. But the track record is definitely there for all to see.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
NO. A 2nd is NOT worth Stills and a 4th.

We just traded a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th.

Are you suggesting Kenny Stills and Brandin Cooks have the same value?
They trade a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th for DJ and his bloated contract. I dont like the DJ move either, that $$$$ would've been better spent on the defense.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You don't care about PPG? Aren't you the one that keeps bringing up that Kubiak's best PPG season is only marginally higher than BOB's?

I also didn't realize you care about DW4 so much. I thought you want the Texans to move on from him.
I was just pointing that out for all of the stat geeks.

I want DW4 to be protected to give him his best chance to succeed. I thought DW4 getting (Literally) getting the crap beat out of him and it would eventually Carr him. You cant be successful with Davenport/Lamm as your OT's.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
They trade a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th for DJ and his bloated contract. I dont like the DJ move either, that $$$$ would've been better spent on the defense.
Huh? I don't get this response.

Here's a link to refresh your memory. Texans traded a 2nd round pick for Cooks and a 4th round pick.
https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-agree-to-trade-for-rams-wr-brandin-cooks-0ap3000001108919

So I ask you again... are you suggesting Kenny Stills and Brandin Cooks have the same value? Considering you think a 2nd round pick was worth Stills and a 4th, you're saying Stills and Cooks are basically the same.
 


Top