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Texans Biggest Blunder?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I honestly didnt care at the time. I was thrilled to see GK finally out the door.

OB has made me miss GK, which I hate saying.

Im not a bitter fan because they didnt pick "my guy" I just have zero faith in the ability of OB to "get it done". Rather than see accountability at the position of HC, I have seen more power and authority bestowed upon him.

I could be way off and IF we had taken someone else Id say I wish we had OB, I do not hate OB the HC/GM just to hate him..... I just dont see much in his track record to give me hope for our future under his leadership and BECAUSE I want my team to win, I want him gone.

IF we go 16-0 under OB the next real season... AWESOME, if the Texans get a Lombardi under OB great, I will eat crow with a bottle of Cholula and sign a petition to start Bill Obrien day.

I know the "OB needs to go" record gets old played on repeat all the time....but with no body in mind, Id have rather taken them than OB. At least then... MAYBE we wouldnt have handed over absolute power to someone that up til now has proven undeserving IMO. I WANT to love the guy, he just needs to give me the reasons to do so.

Even just avoiding his recent choices as overseer of all things..... I believe that alone drastically helos the Texans... by simply blocking the GM decision itself would make a huge difference IMO.

I believe it is OBs "pedigree" that has afforded him so much time and power. Without him coming from BB's stable and without us trying to be Patriots 2.0... anyone else dosen't recieve half the time nor power afforded OB. So anyone else would have either been highly successful, or held accountable...... maybe.
Why wouldn't BOB get the power you're talking about immediately if all it took was being from the BB tree to get that power?

You say you want to like BOB, what would it take for you to like him? I kinda feel the same way you do after 51-7, they're spinning their wheels at this point.
 

KA4Texan

I Hide My Own Easter Eggs
Contributor's Club
Why wouldn't BOB get the power you're talking about immediately if all it took was being from the BB tree to get that power?

You say you want to like BOB, what would it take for you to like him? I kinda feel the same way you do after 51-7, they're spinning their wheels at this point.
They had those spaces filled and he had not yet weaseled his way into convincing the McNair's of his brilliance. Possible reason.

What would it take? Competency.

I mean, even when the Texans had their long win streak, how many of us were truly confident going into the next game?

I know it is hard to win in the NFL, I do not fault ONLY the HC/GM for a loss, but when my team looks like they cant find their butt with two hands if you spot them 9 fingers... its not all on the players either.

I see a complete lack of direction I cant say "they need better players" and leave it at that.

They need better leadership first and foremost, whether it is at ownership, GM or HC ... we cant do much about the ownership, but the HC/GM CAN be replaced.

IF I were to see better leadership decisions, it would go a long way.

Win or lose, I want a team I can feel confident is legitimate, not one that will bumble and trip into a win.

For it to be entertaining in the sense that, more often than not it will be close because two teams played one heck of a game....or if the other team looked foolish, the game was dull because they played disciplined ball and took advantage of the other team.

I know every team has their odd ball days where nothing goes right.... that should be a fluke in a team with competent leadership, not the norm.

If that improves, so too will my opinion of OB. At this point, it will take more than a few games of highly disciplined and well coached games to convince me it is more than a fluke. But put 1 game in front of another that way and eventually I am an OB lover.

Til then its feels like putting 100 bill in the ground, pouring water on it, hoping for a money tree.... false hopes and wasted time.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I blame the entire org. It was a missed opportunity. Bunch of conservative BS. I don't care what year he had, Shaub was half the QB Manning was. All time great mind of the game, records, endless accolades, and oh yea, Texan WORTHY! LOL

I wish McNair would've stepped up and said "I want him here, make it happen". They bring Oz here sight unseen and throw away millions but can't roll the dice on Manning?? Kubiak wouldve been the perfect judge to watch him throw and know he was ready to go. All time blunder.
I think Osweiler scared McNair from Manning. If we got him and he couldn't make it, fans rightfully would have been screaming Ed Reed. It was a conservative move or rather no move.
 

Earl34

All Pro
What coach, NFL or college would you like to have seen hired instead of OBrien?

I can't remember who the other candidates were.

When did little Shanny leave Houston? Was he considered HC material then?

:coffee:
During his time with the Texans, he was known as good offensive coach and on the fast track to becoming a HC. He did a great job with the Texans. However, after leaving the Texans, there was whispers about him being self-entitled, arrogant and immature as his dad's OC in Washington. Maybe he needed a couple of years without Kubiak or his father to mature.

It would have been an interesting scenario if he was on the Texans' staff when they fired Kubiak.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They had those spaces filled and he had not yet weaseled his way into convincing the McNair's of his brilliance. Possible reason.

What would it take? Competency.

I mean, even when the Texans had their long win streak, how many of us were truly confident going into the next game?

I know it is hard to win in the NFL, I do not fault ONLY the HC/GM for a loss, but when my team looks like they cant find their butt with two hands if you spot them 9 fingers... its not all on the players either.

I see a complete lack of direction I cant say "they need better players" and leave it at that.

They need better leadership first and foremost, whether it is at ownership, GM or HC ... we cant do much about the ownership, but the HC/GM CAN be replaced.

IF I were to see better leadership decisions, it would go a long way.

Win or lose, I want a team I can feel confident is legitimate, not one that will bumble and trip into a win.

For it to be entertaining in the sense that, more often than not it will be close because two teams played one heck of a game....or if the other team looked foolish, the game was dull because they played disciplined ball and took advantage of the other team.

I know every team has their odd ball days where nothing goes right.... that should be a fluke in a team with competent leadership, not the norm.

If that improves, so too will my opinion of OB. At this point, it will take more than a few games of highly disciplined and well coached games to convince me it is more than a fluke. But put 1 game in front of another that way and eventually I am an OB lover.

Til then its feels like putting 100 bill in the ground, pouring water on it, hoping for a money tree.... false hopes and wasted time.
If the McNair's initially felt that way about BB prodigy BOB they would've fired RS when they fired Kubiak.

It amazed me that they won 9 games in a row with the crap OL that got DW4's lung collapsed, especially after an 0-3 start. Fact is that yr the team overachieved and BOB did a great job coaching them.

The reason you feel the way you do is because BOB coaches the team very conservatively especially on offense. He does this to somewhat cover for a poor defense. You also probably feel or atleast I don't feel confident when they face a more talented team like the Chiefs in Kansas City in the playoffs. The more talented team won and eventually won the SB.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I don't necessarily disagree with your player assessments (although Omenihu for Watt looks like a stretch) but what you're describing basically keeps us standing still. Guess it comes down to expectations, and in my very humble opinion, we need a leap forward in talent (thru draft or FA) if we're to do anything other than limp into the playoffs and then get embarrassed by the first decent team we face.
Just to clarify, I did not say Omenihu would be another JJ but who is? He doesn't have to be; just as #4 doesn't have to be Brady or Manning to get to Super Bowl. None of those I mentioned have to start this season. Blacklock and Greenard could be studs. I'm not ruling out getting a quality free agent or two but 2021 cap needs resolving.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
They also could use a 3rd/4th to move up to the late 2nd early 3rd if a guy they like falls.
I long for the draft when we don't have to use every 1-4th round for players but can trade up to get a stud. Guess that will be 2022 at best. That's why coaching needs to bring some of these guys to first team. I will also trade future first rounds for a probowler today.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I long for the draft when we don't have to use every 1-4th round for players but can trade up to get a stud. Guess that will be 2022 at best. That's why coaching needs to bring some of these guys to first team. I will also trade future first rounds for a probowler today.
I think if healthy Blacklock is going to be a stud by yr 2.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I'm going to one up my initial response and replace it with.......McNair b/c he felt he could run the Texans instead of just being the proud owner of the Texans. Papa McNair missed badly on his GM selections and Cal didn't do much better. Bad GM's equaled bad coaching staffs, bad drafts, bad trades and FA moves. So the common denominator....the McNair's.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I know this won't be a popular opinion around here but I really liked Gary Kubiak and felt like him and Wade Phillips deserved another year here after 2013, I felt like they could have turned things around drastically in 2014. I feel like firing both of them is the biggest mistake we've ever made, a few years later we were watching them both hoist the Lombardi for another team. If anything they should have fired Rick Smith after 2013. Then consider the domino effect, we got O'Brien, then Osweiler, which led to that one Sunday Night game on NBC where Denver embarrassed us and they kept putting the camera on Rick Smith and Bob Mcnair while bringing up Brock's contract.

I feel like that was the all time low point for the franchise, they really made the whole org look like clowns, erased any and all winning culture we had built in 2011-2012 and established this team as a loser in the NFL fans' eye. Now with O'Brien in what?, his 6th year? And I know what a 2-14 team looks like and I think we're looking at one with this 2020 Texans team. Some key guys are going to get hurt and we're going to lose a lot of games, it's going to be bad. Book mark this post and come back to it in January when some other team gets our 1st overall pick, THEN tell me firing Kubes and Wade was the right move.

I've always felt the same way - They fired the wrong guy(s).

That team went from being a 12-4 Superbowl contender to a 2-14 team that lost 14 straight with the same squad , same system with only one change - Matt Schaub's health.
They didn't have anything at all behind Schaub and that is the fault of one Tricky Rick. You simply need to look at their draft history over the course of his tenure for proof.
Being in the room and hearing the many heated arguments those two had over the position and hearing Rick tell us that it was the system that made the QB and JAG will do .... Gary had Peyton Manning In The Building , this is where he wanted to be - to play in that system and Rick refused to make it happen.
The trend continued when OB took over as coach and it took a direct mandate from Bob McNair "Draft a top tier QB" to get him to draft Watson. Its a fact that OB wanted Mahomes and its a fact that Rick refused to move up for him saying he'd take whichever was left.
That's not to say that Mahomes would be where he is today had he landed here with OB .... Just that Rick wouldn't go get the guy his coach wanted.

Those years on the QB carousel were a direct responsibility of Tricky Rick.

Gig'em

LMAO

:foottap:
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
What coach, NFL or college would you like to have seen hired instead of OBrien?

I can't remember who the other candidates were.

When did little Shanny leave Houston? Was he considered HC material then?

:coffee:

Kyle left in 2010 to join daddy Shanahan in Washington for that season.

He wasn't the hot prospect until after the 2016 season when the Falcons made it to the superbowl - OB was hired here two years prior.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
How about the Dunta Robinson debacle?
They angered a quality vet at a time when the roster was about to make that next step, led on to the kiddie corners season, which was kind of the beginning of the end of Kubiak in my opinion.
Purely because this has been on my mind, I wanted to add that the ‘kiddie corners’ in question were Kareem Jackson and Glover Quin. So the real issue caused by losing Dunta wasn’t an issue with talent, it was that the arrogant handling of a skilled vet left no succession plan.

Had they shown him some respect and convinced him to sign the tag, we’d have been able to manage the growing pains of Jackson more effectively, and probably realised the talent we had in Quin before losing him to FA.

And that’s before you consider that we ended up spending our FA money for most of the last decade on Joseph and Manning to cover up the DB issues created.

Im sure that didn’t need explaining to anybody, but I actually think that may have been the main trigger where Kubiak's slow and steady progress towards becoming a contender became derailed (we weren’t still ‘on the right track’ after all).

Perhaps if not for the really bad 2010 season, Kubiak later has the power to see through the rebuild required once Schaub’s injury happened.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
I don't think drafting Carr was that big of a blunder. When I look closer at that expansion draft in 2002 and the absolute scrap heap that we were given to work with to build a team I really don't think there was anything this franchise could have done to be any better. It didn't really matter if they had drafted Julious Peppers over Carr, this team was set up to fail by the NFL. What good players we did get to build the core of this team all had a 2-3 year window, any way you slice it or rebuild it this team was destined to have the bottom fall out by 2005. Even if you could take a time machine back and make changes I feel like the best you could do would be to have a better 2004 season, maybe get a wild card game where we get blown out on the road. The NFL made sure in the very beginning this team was going to spend the whole 2000's decade as cannon fodder for Peyton Manning and Bud Adams.
 
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welsh texan

All Pro
I don't think drafting Carr was that big of a blunder. When I look closer at that expansion draft in 2002 and the absolute scrap heap that we were given to work with to build a team I really don't think there was anything this franchise could have done to be any better. It didn't really matter if they had drafted Julious Peppers over Carr, this team was set up to fail by the NFL. What good players we did get to build the core of this team all had a 2-3 year window, any way you slice it or rebuild it this team was destined to have the bottom fall out by 2005. Even if you could take a time machine back and make changes I feel like the best you could do would be to have a better 2004 season, maybe get a wild card game where we get blown out on the road. The NFL made sure in the very beginning this team was going to spend the whole 2000's decade as cannon fodder for Peyton Manning and Bud Adams.
I actually just had a look at the expansion draft rules, as I was just beginning to watch NFL games around 2002-2003 and missed the actual start of the franchise.

Seems like a really shitty set up, giving teams the opportunity to offer up the bottom of their roster, the only players with any value made available had toxic contracts on teams in salary cap hell.

It seems we gave the Jags a huge leg up by taking some big contracts off their hands.

As for Carr as the first pick, I’d tend to agree it wasn’t a bad selection. Even toward the end of Capers, he’d still flash that talent from time to time. He got dropped into a bad situation behind a terrible OL, he may not have put in the work to succeed but I’m not convinced he could have, anyway.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is why RS was not brought back and how BOB gained power.

BOB told RS twice the QB he wanted and RS didn't make it happen.

I don't know if incompetence happened before dysfunction, but they were a part of the Texans org for far too long. How is a HC supposed to function when the GM won't get him the players he wants at the most important position in all of sports?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This is why RS was not brought back and how BOB gained power.

BOB told RS twice the QB he wanted and RS didn't make it happen.

I don't know if incompetence happened before dysfunction, but they were a part of the Texans org for far too long. How is a HC supposed to function when the GM won't get him the players he wants at the most important position in all of sports?
That is not the reason why.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
This is why RS was not brought back and how BOB gained power.

BOB told RS twice the QB he wanted and RS didn't make it happen.

I don't know if incompetence happened before dysfunction, but they were a part of the Texans org for far too long. How is a HC supposed to function when the GM won't get him the players he wants at the most important position in all of sports?
They both should have been gone on the same day after the 4-12 season.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't think drafting Carr was that big of a blunder. When I look closer at that expansion draft in 2002 and the absolute scrap heap that we were given to work with to build a team I really don't think there was anything this franchise could have done to be any better. It didn't really matter if they had drafted Julious Peppers over Carr, this team was set up to fail by the NFL. What good players we did get to build the core of this team all had a 2-3 year window, any way you slice it or rebuild it this team was destined to have the bottom fall out by 2005. Even if you could take a time machine back and make changes I feel like the best you could do would be to have a better 2004 season, maybe get a wild card game where we get blown out on the road. The NFL made sure in the very beginning this team was going to spend the whole 2000's decade as cannon fodder for Peyton Manning and Bud Adams.
I brought up Carr as an example of a cycle of blunders in early Texans history. Perhaps Casserly should have been my suggestion. His hiring is certainly another great example of stupid mistakes.

Carr was never a leader of men. He was never a player that strove to be the best. He was notorious for last in and first to leave. He had terrible film study habits. He was not a student of the game. He resisted efforts to improve his game. This is clear of his career with every team he joined.

And clearly, he was a terrible pick to be a starting QB in the NFL without earning it.

He was picked because he had a square jawline and was good looking on 3D souvenir cups and other merchandise. He was given the starting job simply as a marketing decision.

It's not necessarily his fault. It's the Texans fault for putting all their eggs in one basket, and then not giving him the coaching support to teach him up. They didn't do their homework. They were given sound advice to go in other directions (which they obviously ignored). They were heavily marketing a new billion dollar entertainment company. Creating a public image and game day experience was far more important to the owner than the actual product on the field.

And it clearly revealed the priorities of the Texans front office and owner.

Charlie Casserly was a terrible pick for GM. He was the proverbial "kick me" sign on McNair's back, something I'm sure the other owners chuckled at because he was duped. There is a reason Casserly never worked as a GM in the NFL again, in spite of his three Super Bowl rings from the Redskins.

So maybe picking Carr was just a symptom of inherent dysfunction in the Texans overall M.O.

That said, he (and his "Fresno Mafia") were arrogant (we've got their nasty attitudes recorded in their own words on this forum's history), so he will continue to be the prime example of early Texans blunders in my book.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
I actually just had a look at the expansion draft rules, as I was just beginning to watch NFL games around 2002-2003 and missed the actual start of the franchise.

Seems like a really shitty set up, giving teams the opportunity to offer up the bottom of their roster, the only players with any value made available had toxic contracts on teams in salary cap hell.

It seems we gave the Jags a huge leg up by taking some big contracts off their hands.

As for Carr as the first pick, I’d tend to agree it wasn’t a bad selection. Even toward the end of Capers, he’d still flash that talent from time to time. He got dropped into a bad situation behind a terrible OL, he may not have put in the work to succeed but I’m not convinced he could have, anyway.
Yeah I just recently went down that rabbit hole since we didn’t have cable or internet back when it happened, that draft was bad, look how many guys were in it that never played due to retirement/injury. The few good picks we had access to were either playing in the final 2/3 years of their prime or had contracts that set them free after 2004. Any way you shuffle the deck this team was destined to start over in 2005.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
To be fair, you can play this game w/ just about any team in the NFL. Every team makes alot of stupid mistakes. Even franchises that have been around much longer.
Absolutely. But a lot of teams balance that out with good decisions as well. Compare the Texans good list to their blunder list and let's see how that turns out.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Absolutely. But a lot of teams balance that out with good decisions as well. Compare the Texans good list to their blunder list and let's see how that turns out.
Definitely. Just making a point that alot of teams make alot of blunders.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I know they needed a DT. But drafting Amobi Okoye over Marshawn Lynch, Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis has to be considered a blunder.

Maybe a case of looking at the past and the world changing the rules since ...

Its become such a passing league , mainly because of rules changes when in the past , you won in the trenches. Now , with few exceptions , its DB's and pass rushers who make the headlines and the money on that side of the ball.

Okoye had all world talent .... he just didn't have the love for the game or work ethic to go along with it that those others did too. Football was secondary to him.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I brought up Carr as an example of a cycle of blunders in early Texans history. Perhaps Casserly should have been my suggestion. His hiring is certainly another great example of stupid mistakes.

Carr was never a leader of men. He was never a player that strove to be the best. He was notorious for last in and first to leave. He had terrible film study habits. He was not a student of the game. He resisted efforts to improve his game. This is clear of his career with every team he joined.

And clearly, he was a terrible pick to be a starting QB in the NFL without earning it.

He was picked because he had a square jawline and was good looking on 3D souvenir cups and other merchandise. He was given the starting job simply as a marketing decision.

It's not necessarily his fault. It's the Texans fault for putting all their eggs in one basket, and then not giving him the coaching support to teach him up. They didn't do their homework. They were given sound advice to go in other directions (which they obviously ignored). They were heavily marketing a new billion dollar entertainment company. Creating a public image and game day experience was far more important to the owner than the actual product on the field.

And it clearly revealed the priorities of the Texans front office and owner.

Charlie Casserly was a terrible pick for GM. He was the proverbial "kick me" sign on McNair's back, something I'm sure the other owners chuckled at because he was duped. There is a reason Casserly never worked as a GM in the NFL again, in spite of his three Super Bowl rings from the Redskins.

So maybe picking Carr was just a symptom of inherent dysfunction in the Texans overall M.O.

That said, he (and his "Fresno Mafia") were arrogant (we've got their nasty attitudes recorded in their own words on this forum's history), so he will continue to be the prime example of early Texans blunders in my book.
Before Gary was hired he was asked if he could fix HWWNBM .... make him an NFL QB. That answer was "yes - but ....".
Gary was done with that dude 2-3 weeks into training camp that season .... It was clear to him that he didn't want it and wasn't going to put in the work. He had the tools ....

He then found a guy with less physical gifts but the give a damn to lead the team and they got oh so close ...
 

chicagotexan2

Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Why?

It's not your money.
Is that a serious question? It hurts that we traded a top flight WR for an oft injured highly paid RB who hasn’t been productive in 2 reasons. Oh wait, but we also got a 2nd round pick. I take it all back.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Too much back and forth between him and Obrien.

His wife condition got worse which led to her passing.


But IMO Bill O’Brien throwing him under the bus so he could get full control of this team.
It's not really throwing somebody under the bus when that persons incompetence caused the issues. Some of those issues still haven't been cleaned up today.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Is that a serious question? It hurts that we traded a top flight WR for an oft injured highly paid RB who hasn’t been productive in 2 reasons. Oh wait, but we also got a 2nd round pick. I take it all back.
I can see you're still upset over the Nuk trade.

Truth is we dont have to work with Nuk everyday, but if we did I bet you wouldn't be against the trade. BTW, I expect the WR corps to be better than it was last yr and I think you're going to really like what Blacklock brings to the team.

I wish that DJ's money had been spent on a top notch CB. But atleast after this season the books will finally be clean and there will be plenty of $$$$ to spend.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When Watson extends for $40 mil/year, and you complain... I'm going to give the same response.
I really have gotten to the point where I dont care. If they give DW4 40 mil I will just sit back and laugh at how incompetent the Texans org has been for almost 2 decades and know that there will be no championships. Just remember that no team has won a championship with their QB taking up more than 14.1 % of the cap.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I really have gotten to the point where I dont care. If they give DW4 40 mil I will just sit back and laugh at how incompetent the Texans org has been for almost 2 decades and know that there will be no championships. Just remember that no team has won a championship with their QB taking up more than 14.1 % of the cap.
And no team that paid their RB over 13 mil has ever won a championship. We were screwed already anyways.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Can't see that happening. The owners know the economic apocalypses is upon us and the players don't want to absorb any damage now - they prefer to put it off which will really hurt players coming up for extensions between now and the next 2-3 years.
Yep, I could see the NFL playing 3-4 games and the ratings being so bad that they cancel the season and blame it on Covid-19. What they're really doing is hoping the the BLM/kneeling thing blows over.


What I think is hilarious is the players have every right to kneel, but they wont have a right to b!tch when ratings fall, the cap goes down and it costs them money. When this actually happens maybe then the players will wake up to reality. A guy like Baker Mayfield said he doesn't care if the NFL loses fans because the right thing is being done. I wonder if he's going to feel this way after his next contract isn't what he thinks it's going to be.
 


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