Unless OB was over ruled and this was a tie break situation that McNair cast the deciding vote
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Tell Me Why Patrick Mahomes is not the Solution!
- Thread starter thetexanator
- Start date
Unless OB was over ruled and this was a tie break situation that McNair cast the deciding vote
Hope they find the right guy soon... not sure it will be this year tho
Same here.
Sometimes people just aren't ready to hear the truth. It takes a steady diet of Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Hoyer, Brock to get them to face reality.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Hell most of the hard work was done by the WR and the RB, when they take a 10 yard pass make 5 people miss and go 70 yards.....He does have a good arm though. I will say that.
That's scheme of the offense, but the kid makes some absolutely money throws with that good arm. Throws that are into windows and at odd angles against the coverage and hard to reach. I'm not trying to absolve all of his negatives either, because they're clearly there, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone not wanting to take him based off of those negatives. Hard not to at least think hard on them.
This kid is like the ultimate puzzle box at QB going into a draft. For every negative - his footwork, the offensive scheme, his throwing mechanics - you can check an opposite and arguably more positive box for - his arm talent, athleticism, competitiveness, and whether anyone else cared or not, I quite liked how he handled himself speaking at the combine.
Be thrilled to get someone I feel is more of a lock to make an impact in the first (Ramczyk, Bolles, Peppers, Robinson, Cunningham, Lamp) and then have the good fortune to still land this talent enigma in the second. But I also wouldn't groan if we just said to hell with it and planted our flag with him at 25.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I feel like the real issue with Mahomes is you have to let him sit so he can learn how to drop back properly because that throwing off your back foot when there isn't pressure is going to end poorly in the NFL. I'm not sure the current staff is going to want to invest in a guy who is almost for sure not going to start this year unless they are already up **** creek.
Flyingfish
Waterboy
I would first like to point out that I am not saying Mahomes is modern-day equivalent to the players I am about to compare him to. However, many of the same things said on this site about Mahomes and his footwork, moving around and often unorthodox passing was also said about Roger "The Dodger" Staubach and "Frantic" Fran Tarkenton. Staubach would hop in the air and throw across his body at times - drove Landry nuts...but it worked. Neither Roger or Tarkenton had the luxury of standing around in the pocket most of their careers, and if they hadn't been able to move, throw on the run, or throw off the wrong foot, they probably would only be remembered for their football IQ and leadership.
Point is, an unorthodox motion, ability to move and see the field works for some QB's. The question is, does the QB have the leadership, athleticism, football IQ and drive to make it work.
Point is, an unorthodox motion, ability to move and see the field works for some QB's. The question is, does the QB have the leadership, athleticism, football IQ and drive to make it work.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I still hope we don't go QB in the first or maybe even second with or without Romo. Frankly to me picking any QB this draft would be like Mike Tyson asking you where you'd like to be punched, no matter what you say it's still going to hurt.
IF one of them is still around in third then maybe it would be worth taking on a project. Other then that I say go to war with the army you have, least on QB side, and look to next year where all signs point to a deep class.
IF one of them is still around in third then maybe it would be worth taking on a project. Other then that I say go to war with the army you have, least on QB side, and look to next year where all signs point to a deep class.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Is there a rule against taking a QB two years in a row?????
Sigma
Veteran
I cant remember the ever seeing a QB that was rated as high as Mahomes with as bad footwork. Hes horrible! He makes more questionable throws than manziel did. No way i draft him in the first round.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
History says you've got nothing to worry about.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
No rule no but why waste our first round or second this year on a project when have other needs that could be filled. A rookie is not going to help us win a SB next year so in the long run waiting one more year won't make us any worse than we are now.
Number19
Hall of Fame
T
The QB quandary is a little more complicated if you look toward next year. Savage's, and Weeden's, contracts will be up at the conclusion of this season. Will either be back for 2018? If we sign Romo, likely both will be gone to a team where they can compete for playing time. So looking toward 2018, we need to keep the services of one veteran from this year, a QB we draft this year and another QB we likely draft next year. Or some other combination.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Great recipe for never having a QB. There are ALWAYS other needs and a rookie doesn't have to start as a rookie to be valuable to a team.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yes but most times there are at least a few good QBs that you can work with and might've worth the gamble of a second or even first. This year the class is so weak almost no mock draft has a QB being taken in top 10 and only a few in top 15.
I'm not saying don't take one I'm saying don't blow a first or second round on guys who any other draft wouldn't be even talked about to at least early third.
If we don't get Romo or another third QB then yeah ok maybe you take someone in case Savage and Wheedon go down but if you have a solid vet QB then give him some more weapons or protection and take a real shot at a SB run.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How convenient we pick at #25 then and aren't faced with trying to trade into the top 10.
Nice hyperbole.
If we do get Romo we won't have a "solid" vet. And Romo is best case scenario a couple year patch, i.e. perfect to not force a rookie to start. Every season the QB reviews are 'needs time to develop and adapt to pro game.' That only happens if you don't wait to the last minute to draft one.
Flyingfish
Waterboy
Looked some old college footage of Staubach and Tarkenton's footwork. From under center, when protected, as expected it's quite good. When not just handing off and they are pressured and on the run, Mahomes is comparable. Point being, Mahomes is not ready yet, but the footwork he showed at Tech while constantly under pressure may be a non-issue or fixable. You cannot fix field vision, game knowledge, decision making, arm strength, leaderership or heart. Roger and Fran had it all, the evaluation that the Texans have to make is can they fix the footwork and how many of the intangibles does Mahomes have. As a Texan fan, Mahomes is worth a first round pick to me.
I would rather draft him rather than get someone else's cast-off. And if he isn't worth it, there is always next year.
I would rather draft him rather than get someone else's cast-off. And if he isn't worth it, there is always next year.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Trubisky 6.54
Kizer 5.85
Mahomes 5.87
Watson 6.27
Lynch 1st 6.17
Manziel 1st 6.12
Bridgewater 1st 6.15
Garoppolo 2nd 5.82
Hackenberg 2nd 5.59
Carr 2nd 6.14
Brissett 3rd 5.50
Kessler 3rd 5.41
Grayson 3rd 5.38
Mansion 3rd 5.24
Looks like they grade mid 1st to mid 2nd. (Grades from NFL.com).
Kizer 5.85
Mahomes 5.87
Watson 6.27
Lynch 1st 6.17
Manziel 1st 6.12
Bridgewater 1st 6.15
Garoppolo 2nd 5.82
Hackenberg 2nd 5.59
Carr 2nd 6.14
Brissett 3rd 5.50
Kessler 3rd 5.41
Grayson 3rd 5.38
Mansion 3rd 5.24
Looks like they grade mid 1st to mid 2nd. (Grades from NFL.com).
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
It just seems like we as fans are so desperate for a QB that we would happily take about anyone in the draft and sing their praises all day long. Look at how rabid people are about Savage when truth be told he hasn't stayed healthy enough for us to have any idea what he's like.
If we take a QB then so be it as long as we take one because we think he might be the guy to lead us to the football promised land and not just so we can say "there we drafted a QB now shut up already."
If we take a QB then so be it as long as we take one because we think he might be the guy to lead us to the football promised land and not just so we can say "there we drafted a QB now shut up already."
'We' don't speak as a collective. There are many differing opinions on ideas/plans for the QB position this offseason.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Like your comparing this guy who played in 2016 with footage from guys who played half a century ago and calling it all good?
Flyingfish
Waterboy
Not calling "it all good." I am saying that "bad footwork" has been exhibited by successful QB's and I used two prominent examples - I did not say he was their equivalent (read post #109). It is something that may be corrected, or, in some situations, over come with other positive traits that have been exhibited by successful QB's. I have also said that Mahomes is not ready yet (post #120).
However, I do believe that a successful QB of any era needs a successful combination of intangibles, such as field vision, game knowledge, decision making, arm strength, leadership and heart. I have observed that some combination of intangibles contribute to the QB's success, and that combination is difficult to predict or evaluate for each player. Evaluating the intangibles has been proven to be quite difficult for fans, scouts, coaches and general managers in all eras. Consider how many "can't miss" QB's have failed - from all eras.
Therefore, based on nothing more that this fan's observations, what I have heard on sports programs and what I have read about the QB's in this draft and the free agents, I lean toward drafting Mahomes to develop as a QB and I would also do that rather than sign a QB that someone else has discarded.
However, I do believe that a successful QB of any era needs a successful combination of intangibles, such as field vision, game knowledge, decision making, arm strength, leadership and heart. I have observed that some combination of intangibles contribute to the QB's success, and that combination is difficult to predict or evaluate for each player. Evaluating the intangibles has been proven to be quite difficult for fans, scouts, coaches and general managers in all eras. Consider how many "can't miss" QB's have failed - from all eras.
Therefore, based on nothing more that this fan's observations, what I have heard on sports programs and what I have read about the QB's in this draft and the free agents, I lean toward drafting Mahomes to develop as a QB and I would also do that rather than sign a QB that someone else has discarded.
I see all those warts .... but like Mollywhpper said
You add to that his vision , use of touch (not everything has to be a fastball) , placing the ball between the levels of the defense the accuracy on the deep ball and ball placement in general which is what allows those guys to rack up all that yac ....
Yeah , his footwork is flawed and his throwing mechanics need tweaking .... but he has so damn many positives.
Most likely he won't be anywhere near 25. & since we don't have next year's second to move up, & we're trying to give away this year's second for a player we don't "need." We'll be lucky to get Kaaya in the third.
I'm still hoping for Peterman in the second.
He just scares the hell out of me. I'm not sure a large majority of those throws are not intercepted much less completed in the NFL. I truly believe there will be an impact player available at 25. This is a deep draft. I personally am struggling with whether or not it's worth the gamble especially if we end up with Romo.
He just scares the hell out of me. I'm not sure a large majority of those throws are not intercepted much less completed in the NFL. I truly believe there will be an impact player available at 25. This is a deep draft. I personally am struggling with whether or not it's worth the gamble especially if we end up with Romo.
If he's as good as the reports we're getting in here, he ought to be shooting up the draft boards.
Sigma
Veteran
honestly from the last few drafts I started to get the impressions that QBs are usually drafted lower than what they are projected.
it's a general feeling I have, it could be totally wrong.
but I can think of some examples of QBs that were drafted way lower than all the mock had projected them (see Geno Smith)
I've seen him mocked everywhere from us in the second on up to the Jets @ 6 overall. His mixed bag of pros/cons has him just as scattered trying to guess his landing spot.
I don't think anyone had a solid grip on where he'll end up.
bah007
Hall of Fame
For my money, he's a 3rd round player but he'll get drafted in the 2nd. Don't see him going in the 1st.
He does have a crazy arm and he's accurate too. Wouldn't cry if we took him but I don't think this regime has the tools to adapt him to the NFL. He'd be a bust under this coaching staff.
He does have a crazy arm and he's accurate too. Wouldn't cry if we took him but I don't think this regime has the tools to adapt him to the NFL. He'd be a bust under this coaching staff.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
All the QB's have been scattershot all over mock drafts because they all have flaws and there is no consensus on who is the best one. There is no standout 'franchise guy' in this draft so it's all a matter of preference.
It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out in the actual draft.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I agree and prefer rolling with Savage & Weeden. We must find out what we have in Savage; he does not have to be a fantastic passer, just solid reads and decisions and high accuracy when he does throw. I could see a 70-30 run to pass games. If Savage or Weeden not the guy, dump then draft in 2018 as that draft is surely no worse than 2017. If Romo comes that pushes Savage out imo after season.
I agree. The more I watch his games the more I like him.
jradMIT
Veteran
Question on him is arm strength, he's the most pro ready of the bunch.
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jradMIT
Veteran
I agree Peterman or try going developmental with a dobbs or Evans or a bad boy reclamation project with Kelly, Kaaya has the most starting experience and hasn't shown much with it.
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I really like his mechanics, and he is very comfortable and accurate on the move. In watching him, he seems like an ideal fit for Kubiak or a WCO type offense. Good fakes. I wonder how close Shanny Jr is watching.
Peterman would be my backup plan should Mahomes be gone by the time our pick comes around .... They are kinda polar opposites in terms of prospects , one is a very safe bet with a high floor , the other has potential thru the roof but a much lower floor.
Watching them , they both remind me of pretty good quarterbacks .... Mahomes of Favre , Peterman of Schaub.
Are you counting Romo into the equation?
If we got them both I wouldn't. Peterman will be ready to start sooner, Mahomes will probably need a year or two. Savage can start until Peterman takes over. Of course if you could get Romo, I'd cut Weeden now and still roll with 4 this year, and then cut/trade Romo
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Zero chance the Texans draft both those guys even without Romo.
If they do get Romo, don't be surprised when they don't take a QB until round 4 or later. If they get Romo, they're going to go all in on trying to win it with him, and picking a QB high when they've left these other needs unaddressed isn't going to help that cause.
If they do get Romo, don't be surprised when they don't take a QB until round 4 or later. If they get Romo, they're going to go all in on trying to win it with him, and picking a QB high when they've left these other needs unaddressed isn't going to help that cause.