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Tell Me Why Patrick Mahomes is not the Solution!

thetexanator said:
sounds like a mobile brett favre. id pick the next brett favre at 25, wouldnt you?
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Interestingly enough, I thought I was watching Brett Favre at Southern Mississippi when I watched this kid's highlights. A lot of strong throws off the back foot. A lot of awkward movement in the pocket, but the ball went from point A to point B on a zip line. He made all the throws.

Teams are going to pass on this kid because he doesn't do things "the right way" but he could be something special in the NFL with quality coaching. He's one of those unimpressive collegiate quarterbacks that get the job done. Brett Favre was that way at Southern Mississippi and Tom Brady was that way at Michigan. I'm sure he won't look all that good at the combine and was very average in his underwear without a T-shirt earlier today (as bad as Tom Brady looked at the 2000 NFL combine).

I'm sure the Texans scouts are "too cool for school" and will probably not draft him. Some other team doing their homework will draft him and reap the rewards.
 
I liked Kizer most early in this process but the more I study Mahomes on film , he just makes the game look easy and his accuracy is uncanny and he also uses touch when its required , again with accuracy.

I'd be thrilled if the Texans could get this kid at #25 ..... but with so many teams needing quarterbacks , he might be gone by #12.


1 Cleveland - Garrett
2 San Fran - Trubisky
3 Chicago - J.Allen
4 Jax - S Thomas
5 Tenn - R Foster
6 NYJ - Kizer
7 SD - R Ramcyzc
8 Carolina - M Lattimore
9 Cincy - M Hooker
10 Buffalo - Watson
11 NO - Fournette
12 Clevelannd - Mahomes


It could easily play out this way ... I'm ILL just thinking about it.
 
Watched the video. Almost never a defender within 3-5 yards of receiver. Also, what's with the left leg? Fast release, though.
 
TripleTap said:
Watched the video. Almost never a defender within 3-5 yards of receiver. Also, what's with the left leg? Fast release, though.
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Mahomes is not wiithout an injury history. He has actually battled through multiple injuries the past two seasons. He suffered a sprained the MCL in his left knee in Sept. 2015 that has required a brace/sleeve and has definitely significantly limited his mobility in 2015 and 2016. He has suffered multiple injuries to both of his shoulders, including an AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder in Sept. 2016. He also injured his left wrist which required surgery this past Dec. So far, his arm strength and accuracy does not seem to have been affected. But if he keeps on suffering right shoulder injuries in his new-world-to-be consisting of monster men, this could change quickly.
 
Thanks, this decides it for me. I definitely don't want to use a high draft pick on a prospect with a history of injury problems. Especially QB. Too risky.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Mahomes is not wiithout an injury history. He has actually battled through multiple injuries the past two seasons. He suffered a sprained the MCL in his left knee in Sept. 2015 that has required a brace/sleeve and has definitely significantly limited his mobility in 2015 and 2016. He has suffered multiple injuries to both of his shoulders, including an AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder in Sept. 2016. He also injured his left wrist which required surgery this past Dec. So far, his arm strength and accuracy does not seem to have been affected. But if he keeps on suffering right shoulder injuries in his new-world-to-be consisting of monster men, this could change quickly.
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This is what happens when you play behind a crappy OL.

I'm not worried about the AC joint sprain. Most QB's suffer these multiple times at some point in their careers and adjust their games.
 
I saw some tape on Mahomes last week for the first time and he does possess an incredible arm, the guy is a true talent when it comes to slinging the football.
But he is all over the place with terrible mechanics. No matter how talented he might be, drafting an unorthodox, undisciplined QB like this kid is probably one of the last things in world Billy O'Brien would ever do.
He really does remind you of Brett Farve, a real gunslinger. It's gonna be fun to see who drafts him, where he's picked (which round), and see how he developes and how his career unfolds in the NFL.
 
IDEXAN said:
I saw some tape on Mahomes last week for the first time and he does possess an incredible arm, the guy is a true talent when it comes to slinging the football.
But he is all over the place with terrible mechanics. No matter how talented he might be, drafting an unorthodox, undisciplined QB like this kid is probably one of the last things in world Billy O'Brien would ever do.
He really does remind you of Brett Farve, a real gunslinger. It's gonna be fun to see who drafts him, where he's picked (which round), and see how he developes and how his career unfolds in the NFL.
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For his mobility to have been so obviously negatively affected for the past 2 seasons, I am suspecting that his knee issue is not simply secondary to an isolated MCL injury that occurred 2 years ago. Further ongoing left knee damage could easily explain his poor mechanics.
 
Every year about this time there are great expectations for 4-5 QBs to get drafted in the first rd. The average is closer to 2 maybe 3 on a good year. And this year is a really weak year for QBs. My guess is 1 maybe 2 QB gets drafted in the normal roll call of the first rd and 1 team will trade up back in to the first rd for the 2nd or 3rd QB drafted in RD 1.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Mahomes is not wiithout an injury history. He has actually battled through multiple injuries the past two seasons. He suffered a sprained the MCL in his left knee in Sept. 2015 that has required a brace/sleeve and has definitely significantly limited his mobility in 2015 and 2016. He has suffered multiple injuries to both of his shoulders, including an AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder in Sept. 2016. He also injured his left wrist which required surgery this past Dec. So far, his arm strength and accuracy does not seem to have been affected. But if he keeps on suffering right shoulder injuries in his new-world-to-be consisting of monster men, this could change quickly.
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Ok so you have moved me on from Mahomes, can you provide me some hope on Brad Kaaya's health?
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Scooter, I'm worried about him being a system quarterback. But if he's a smart kid that works hard why couldn't he succeed from Bill O'Brien's playcalling and coaching?

Can the kid stay healthy is the question? I want a guy that's always on the field... Tom Savage won't be here much longer (contract year). And Brock Osweiler will likely be bought out next year at this time ($6 million dead money cap hit).

Drafting a kid like this makes sense...
We can still try to sign a veteran to bridge the gap.
Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, even Kaepernick. A lot of names available.
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First off, you lost me at "Bill O'Brien's playcalling and coaching". I'm not sure how I could further emphasize how horrible O'Brien is as a coach, a teacher and a playcaller. That mess is only doubled by his entire lack of offensive coaching staff.

Your following section about the health of Savage and the craptitude of Brock I agree with. See my previous statement.

Drafting a kid like that makes no sense, and a few posts above yours is one from Texian that I agree with completely. I think you got lost seeing the results of that video instead of studying the quarterback you're trying to support. Suggesting Romo, Cutler and Kaepernick goes a long way to undermine any credibility you wish to insert into a conversation about potential quarterbacks.
 
mussop said:
Yep someone like Peterman.
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I could accept Peterman as their choice .... His mechanics and footwork might be better than Trubisky's , almost reminds me of #18. I think at worst Peterman is a serviceable backup.

But while Mahomes has his warts , he is very intriguing. His throwing motion is almost effortless and his accuracy is really good , he often threw guys open .... allowing them lots of Yac.



I think Mahomes may be gone before the Texans pick .... I could see him gone by the 13th pick with so many teams hungry for quality signal callers.
 
badboy said:
Ok so you have moved me on from Mahomes, can you provide me some hope on Brad Kaaya's health?
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Besides a minor knee sprain in Sept 2016 (which was not lingering), he suffered what appears to have been a Grade I A-C shoulder sprain when he was driven to the turf on his throwing arm in Oct of last season. Although not having any apparent significant lasting effect on his throwing, any shoulder injury on a QB whose greatest criticism is his arm strength could be a concern, especially if he doesn't play behind a strong OL.
 
Corrosion said:
I could accept Peterman as their choice .... His mechanics and footwork might be better than Trubisky's , almost reminds me of #18. I think at worst Peterman is a serviceable backup.

But while Mahomes has his warts , he is very intriguing. His throwing motion is almost effortless and his accuracy is really good , he often threw guys open .... allowing them lots of Yac.



I think Mahomes may be gone before the Texans pick .... I could see him gone by the 13th pick with so many teams hungry for quality signal callers.
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You know as bad as I want a good QB I wouldn't be upset at all if we signed Romo, drafted Mahomes in the first and drafted Peterman in the second or third. I know it's crazy but as hard as it is to find a quality QB in today's NFL I could understand flooding the position with as much talent as we can. I would also keep savage or (sigh!!!) Osweiler and go into the season with 4 QBs.
 
mussop said:
You know as bad as I want a good QB I wouldn't be upset at all if we signed Romo, drafted Mahomes in the first and drafted Peterman in the second or third. I know it's crazy but as hard as it is to find a quality QB in today's NFL I could understand flooding the position with as much talent as we can. I would also keep savage or (sigh!!!) Osweiler and go into the season with 4 QBs.
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That's FIVE QBs???
 
To me there are 3 QB's in this draft that might fit what I think BOB is looking for.

1) Trubisky, who will be gone by the time the Texans pick.
2) Peterman, who may be the most Pro-ready QB in this draft and, to me anyway, is somewhat similar to Schaub (Not a strong arm.).
3) Kaaya, tall at 6-4 and played in a pro-style system with an OK arm. Compared to Goff and Kessler.

Personally, I'm not sold on Kaaya and don't really want the Texans to draft him. I could live with Peterman I guess but would prefer someone else. Trubisky would be good but I have no illusions he will be there at #25. As for Mahomes, I'd rather they take a chance on him than draft Kaaya or Peterman. His ceiling is way higher than either of them. The guy I really like is Evans. I think he could develop into a Dak type QB but he is raw and it will take some time.
 
Houston should draft Mahomes if he's there and then another QB with another pick in the draft. We've been horrible about taking a chance on QB's.

6 in 14 years? That's a huge issue when QB has seemingly been this team's Achille's Heel since the Texans have been a franchise.

New England has drafted 8 since 2002 and they've had a great QB the entire time. If you don't take a swing for some potential talent, you're going to be stuck with journeymen at the most important position.
 
mussop said:
You know as bad as I want a good QB I wouldn't be upset at all if we signed Romo, drafted Mahomes in the first and drafted Peterman in the second or third. I know it's crazy but as hard as it is to find a quality QB in today's NFL I could understand flooding the position with as much talent as we can. I would also keep savage or (sigh!!!) Osweiler and go into the season with 4 QBs.
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Where do you get a starting RT?
 
Texian said:
Every year about this time there are great expectations for 4-5 QBs to get drafted in the first rd. The average is closer to 2 maybe 3 on a good year. And this year is a really weak year for QBs. My guess is 1 maybe 2 QB gets drafted in the normal roll call of the first rd and 1 team will trade up back in to the first rd for the 2nd or 3rd QB drafted in RD 1.
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Every. Single. Year.

I've got Watson as the only first round QB in this draft, and even he comes with significant concerns about decision making (INTs).

I think Peterman is the #2 QB but I expect someone to move up for Trubisky late in the first so they can get him on the more flexible contract.
 
bah007 said:
Every. Single. Year.

I've got Watson as the only first round QB in this draft, and even he comes with significant concerns about decision making (INTs).

I think Peterman is the #2 QB but I expect someone to move up for Trubisky late in the first so they can get him on the more flexible contract.
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Draft guru Mike Mayoc says he's not got a first round grade on a single QB in this years Draft but he still expects several will probably be drafted in the first round because folks are just willing to take big risks because the position is so important.
 
IDEXAN said:
Draft guru Mike Mayoc says he's not got a first round grade on a single QB in this years Draft but he still expects several will probably be drafted in the first round because folks are just willing to take big risks because the position is so important.
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I pretty much agree with him .... None of them check all or even most of the boxes as signal callers.

But damn , you have a dozen teams that have sub par to bad QB play and a half a dozen more who could use an upgrade or a guy to groom behind an aging QB.


Cleveland , SF , Chicago , NYJ , Buffalo , Denver and the Texans probably have the most glaring holes at the position.


SD , NO , PHX , Pitt. and NE have Old Guys playing QB ....

Jax , Detriot and Miami have JAG's for the most part.

Washington and Tenn have .... who knows what they are.


The list of teams teams with stable quarterback positions is a lot shorter than those that are looking .... Atlanta , Green Bay , Seattle , Cincy , Raiders , Dallas , NE , Indy & Pitt. (maybe you could add KC).
 
mussop said:
Well I was hoping in FA but that thought went out the window yesterday.
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But we freed up money in a "brilliant" trade. Dont we have the money to do it? Somebody fell asleep at the wheel. (Again.)
 
I re-watched a few games of machines last night. Do not want. His footwork is beyond horrible. He throws of his back foot way too much. He doesn't climb the pocket when under pressure, he looks to get outside too much. That won't work in the NFL. He throws way too many soft passes across the field that will be interceptions I the NFL. This guy needs too much work. He's years behind. I know it's sounds crazy but screw it, trade down if possible and draft Peterman with our first pick.
 
powda said:
Yet we made a trade preceding that. Now jones is controlling our offseason. Very smooth kirby.
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Well it's not like there is a lot of options out there. Even if we don't get Romo I'm glad oz is gone. Honestly, if you were a Texans player would you look forward to to chance oz would be back on the field next year???????? The guy was horrible. No one said it publicly but you know NO ONE was looking forward to the prospect that Oz being under center again next year.

The guy was a black cloud. Good riddance. I'm still hoping KC trades for Romo and we somehow end up with Smith.
 
mussop said:
Well it's not like there is a lot of options out there. Even if we don't get Romo I'm glad oz is gone. Honestly, if you were a Texans player would you look forward to to chance oz would be back on the field next year???????? The guy was horrible. No one said it publicly but you know NO ONE was looking forward to the prospect that Oz being under center again next year.

The guy was a black cloud. Good riddance. I'm still hoping KC trades for Romo and we somehow end up with Smith.
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yep, most on here wanted Os gone even if it meant eating $19 mil in cap space. And there was obviously friction in the club house. You could see the team respond when Savage came in like they never did for Os after week 3 of the season. Not only did we get rid of him, we picked up a 4th round pick in a deep draft class. Yeah we gave up a 2nd NEXT YEAR, but at this point that's not even an issue. What we manage to do with the cap space is yet to be seen as is what we do in the draft. Everyone is assuming we sign Romo, but we all know what assume stands for
 
Im glad oz is gone to but not at the expense of a 2nd round pick.

Id be happy with alex smith.
 
powda said:
Im glad oz is gone to but not at the expense of a 2nd round pick.

Id be happy with alex smith.
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So the main cause of your disgruntlement is giving up a 2nd round pick NEXT YEAR?
 
Back on topic but watching the kids high light video honestly looked more at times like his receivers high light video. There were some horrible throws in there that became great plays thanks to the receiver.

The kid throws on his back foot and and his first option when the pocket gets tight seems to be run away instead of find a target. Yes he can throw on the move but as soon as teams figure out they can make him try and run it they will shut him down cold.

He is a gunslinger I'll give him that but I don't want just a gunslinger I want a damn sniper to that can sit there and zero in on his target and put it right in the receivers chest. This kid is going to get his throws intercepted so many times it won't even be funny once he has to throw against pro level defenses.

Honestly as bad as we need one I hope we don't go QB this year and focus on the O line and maybe plug a few holes on D. This QB class is horrible and even the ones that are considered best in class aren't first round worthy in just about any other year.

Add to that 2018 class looks great and let's just ride with the best we can get outside the draft, Romo, Savage or whoever. As much as I hate to sound like the colts with suck for luck the fact is if we do have a bad year this time it will only help us get the best possible in the next draft.
 
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maverick512000 said:
Back on topic but watching the kids high light video honestly looked more at times like his receivers high light video. There were some horrible throws in there that became great plays thanks to the receiver.

The kid throws on his back foot and and his first option when the pocket gets tight seems to be run away instead of find a target. Yes he can throw on the move but as soon as teams figure out they can make him try and run it they will shut him down cold.

He is a gunslinger I'll give him that but I don't want just a gunslinger I want a damn sniper to that can sit there and zero in on his target and put it right in the receivers chest. This kid is going to get his throws intercepted so many times it won't even be funny once he has to throw against pro level defenses.

Honestly as bad as we need one I hope we don't go QB this year and focus on the O line and maybe plug a few holes on D. This QB class is horrible and even the ones that are considered best in class aren't first round worthy in just about any other year.

Add to that 2018 class looks great and let's just ride with the best we can get outside the draft, Romo, Savage or whoever. As much as I hate to sound like the colts with suck for luck the fact is if we do have a bad year this time it will only help us get the best possible in the next draft.
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I detest a gunslinger mentality at QB in the NFL. I would've cut Brett Favre. Mahommes isn't as bad as Watson (INT machine) or Kizer (folds under pressure and in big games), but I'm not sure quite how to judge him. The transition to the pro's is so great that it's impossible to tell. I rely on believing that one reverts back to their true form under pressure or when desperate.
 
mussop said:
I re-watched a few games of machines last night. Do not want. His footwork is beyond horrible. He throws of his back foot way too much. He doesn't climb the pocket when under pressure, he looks to get outside too much. That won't work in the NFL. He throws way too many soft passes across the field that will be interceptions I the NFL. This guy needs too much work. He's years behind. I know it's sounds crazy but screw it, trade down if possible and draft Peterman with our first pick.
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I feel the same way. I cant recall EVER seeing SO MANY Yards After Catch highlights. And receivers open by 5 yards, no precision passes into space. He was throwing soft, sidearm throws off the back foot while still running. Thats like all the horrible QB mechanics packed together into 1 throw lol.

You look at even Tom Savage's highlights and you see sound mechanics in the pocket, everything tight, going quick through progressions not too much wasted motions. Even Steve McNair college highlights, as sandlot as it was can see him having to MAKE QB plays to receivers not just lob 'em out there 7 yards turns into 50. Mahomes does have an arm, and has a little creativity in putting the ball into decent spots. Seems a good guy too so someone will think he has good measurables to GROOM. I dont see 1st round talent or franchise changing QB from day 1, he's a longer term project
 
Facilitator or enabler has no accountability?

Besides sheer numbers, ground through his tenure of two coaching staffs its incalculable to measure & quantify disappointments this franchise has experienced from sub par to historic atrocities in QB play?
 
IDEXAN said:
I still commend the Texans and their strategy and their convictions to go after a QB in FA last year but of course turns out it was the wrong one for which I put the blame squarely upon O"brien because he was the guy hired and paid to be the offensive/QB expert.
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My position as well. I also commend them for seeing the glaring reality of the mistake made on the QB chosen and did what they needed to do to correct it. It shows me that somebody had a pair and made the right decision instead of trying to find a way to make a very bad move work. I hope that some knee jerk decision doesn't prompt another bad choice that we have to try to figure how to make work again.
 
Mahomes backing up Romo may be a dream scenario. Only thing is youd have to gamble on him being available after round 1 or move up later to get him.

Just no way you don't find the best OT available in round 1. This is the year OL early makes sense.
 
I'm not sold on Mahomes. He does this lean back thing before throwing a deep ball. Don't care where we went to school at. Peterman looks a better prospect to me.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Mahomes backing up Romo may be a dream scenario. Only thing is youd have to gamble on him being available after round 1 or move up later to get him.

Just no way you don't find the best OT available in round 1. This is the year OL early makes sense.
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You don't pass on a QB if you think he is the right guy for the team.
 
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