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Takeaways from the Ravens game.

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Well nobody plays well against a top tier defense. That is why they are top tier.

I am all for recognizing the faults. That said, before this game the talk on this board was that Watson had some imaginary "championship" trait that Lamar didn't , and that he was so much better than Lamar at throwing.

Now that talk has completely swung in the other direction. He is not some destroyer of worlds. He is what he is. A young, talented guy who is still growing. He is also not irredeemable trash either, he is 24.
True, this is what I've been trying to tell poster but they won't listen

Never said he was trash, although I expected hm to play better. I think the Ravens have a good not great defense. I mean after seeing his play would you be willing to invest 35-40 mil per yr over 5yrs on this guy? I sure wouldn't.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Here's how that "trend" played out against Top-10 defenses in 2018...using NFL standard Yds/Gm allowed. (Colts were 11th)

22/32 310 Yds 2 TD 1 INT

33/44 375 Yds 1 TD 1 INT

15/25 177 Yds 1 TD 2 INT

12/24 139 Yds 1 TD 0 INT

19/24 210 Yds 2 TD 0 INT

25/35 234 Yds 0 TD 0 INT

Not exactly horrid, right?

Let's try 2019. (Ravens are 14th)

20/38 268 Yds 3 TD 1 INT

25/34 351 Yds 3 TD 0 INT

We can cherry-pick stats all day, but the Ravens "Passing" Defense is currently 18th, Carolina is 14th, the Jags are 8th, the Chargers are 4th...and he tore the Chargers apart.
Yet posters were complaining last yr

The fact that they hired the best QB coach in the business should be concerning.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LMAO "bigger fraud ENRON or the Texans as legit contenders" "the roof will probably be closed because the Texans are the Texans, 18 years and counting" ... "trading away Jadeveon Clowney for one fringe NFL player and one SCRUB was a horseBLEEP move at the time, looks WORSE now"

Palillo is scorching the earth!! LOL .. ya'll think the HACKS at 610 dare give this kind of assessment? Nah me either.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
Charlie is correct on everything he said. The Texans are frauds. Always have been, and always will be until we can get a quality management team in place. BOB is not the answer ladies and gents. You know, I know it. The american people know it.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I can no longer get worked up by what 53 guys do on a football field every Sunday. Its just irrational & I can't honestly believe how I used to get all worked up like that before. Ditto for the Astros and it certainly applies to me for the Rockets whom as far as I'm concerned are in the same boat with the Texans.
 
True, this is what I've been trying to tell poster but they won't listen

Never said he was trash, although I expected hm to play better. I think the Ravens have a good not great defense. I mean after seeing his play would you be willing to invest 35-40 mil per yr over 5yrs on this guy? I sure wouldn't.
Most people would take Watson top 5 if the nfl did a redraft. Without him, this team is 2-8. Not sure why you hate him so much you blame him for every Texan lost when clearly O’Brien didn’t have a game plan most recently. The team looks like it’s quitting on him and you put some blame toward the guy whose trying to win lol

 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Most people would take Watson top 5 if the nfl did a redraft. Without him, this team is 2-8. Not sure why you hate him so much you blame him for every Texan lost when clearly O’Brien didn’t have a game plan most recently. The team looks like it’s quitting on him and you put some blame toward the guy whose trying to win lol

You have no clue what this team would be without Watson, because you have no idea who the QB would be if he wasn't. Everything you write about Watson is pure conjecture with almost zero facts included to make your case.
 

Earl34

Rookie
The piss poor scheme for this game didn't allow them to get open. No freaking creativity at all.
Watson did not have a good game. However, when you look at the videos, any knowledgeable observer can clearly see the Ravens did a great job against the Texans offense and no one including the QB, OL, HC or OC had any answers. Not one play in the previous posts countered what the Ravens were doing.
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
It's hard for the QB to do anything when the coach is calling a high school level game plan

Zero of this is on Watson
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Watson has his problems. OB cant coach him up

People on Kirby can fix this. But they wont
I'm not trying to put blame on Watson or absolve O'Brien. For all intents & purposes they are the same on Gameday. One is an extension of the other.

When Watson gets to the LOS that's him. When he starts pointing at different people on the defense & starts shouting code to his teammates, that's him.

If BO'b put him in a bad situation then that's something he needs to work out with BO'b between games. In those meeting rooms & on the practice field.

Just like I expect BO'b to find a way to get GMs to work with him, I expect Watson to find a way to get BO'b to work with him.

There's a disconnect with the whole offense. Even that OL looked confused. BO'b & Watson need to figure out how to speak the same language the whole offense can understand.
 
It's hard for the QB to do anything when the coach is calling a high school level game plan

Zero of this is on Watson
See it’s statements like that why it’s hard to take your posts seriously. Fumbling the ball on the first drive, that’s on Watson. Holding the ball to long that’s on Watson. Not seeing the blitz and calling changes at the line or misreading the defense and calling the wrong changes that’s on Watson.

There are plenty of things that on BoB but saying none of it is on Watson is as stupid as saying none of it is on BoB.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I'm not trying to put blame on Watson or absolve O'Brien. For all intents & purposes they are the same on Gameday. One is an extension of the other.

When Watson gets to the LOS that's him. When he starts pointing at different people on the defense & starts shouting code to his teammates, that's him.

If BO'b put him in a bad situation then that's something he needs to work out with BO'b between games. In those meeting rooms & on the practice field.

Just like I expect BO'b to find a way to get GMs to work with him, I expect Watson to find a way to get BO'b to work with him.

There's a disconnect with the whole offense. Even that OL looked confused. BO'b & Watson need to figure out how to speak the same language the whole offense can understand.
That's not Watson's job. That's OBriens.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@Earl34 check out what a REAL "EP" passing game looks like:


as you can see on this concept Brady has FIVE short/intermediate passing routes. FIVE!! tell me have you ever seen O'Brien roll out ANYTHING that has looked remotely similar to this play right here? The only vertical route on that progression is actually an option route! I selected this one in particular because O'Brien and Watson could have FEASTED on the BAL defense with these exact types of plays and formations. Quick 3 step stuff from under center. Guys have cornered Watson into a "shotgun" QB, but in reality if you look up his stats he's just as good from under center. He's 64% passing, 7 TDs/3INTS with a 103.8 QB rating (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00/splits/). Tell me how thats a "spread QB not being able to grasp the pro system". NOT UNTIL THIS YEAR has an OBrien offense been statistically ranked among the top 10 in total offense.

Its time.
 

Texan Asylum

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm not trying to put blame on Watson or absolve O'Brien. For all intents & purposes they are the same on Gameday. One is an extension of the other.

When Watson gets to the LOS that's him. When he starts pointing at different people on the defense & starts shouting code to his teammates, that's him.

If BO'b put him in a bad situation then that's something he needs to work out with BO'b between games. In those meeting rooms & on the practice field.

Just like I expect BO'b to find a way to get GMs to work with him, I expect Watson to find a way to get BO'b to work with him.

There's a disconnect with the whole offense. Even that OL looked confused. BO'b & Watson need to figure out how to speak the same language the whole offense can understand.
This...
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Most people would take Watson top 5 if the nfl did a redraft. Without him, this team is 2-8. Not sure why you hate him so much you blame him for every Texan lost when clearly O’Brien didn’t have a game plan most recently. The team looks like it’s quitting on him and you put some blame toward the guy whose trying to win lol

I'm not most people.

You may be correct about the re-draft and they would be subjected to the tortious Moon yrs.

Some of us older guys have seen this show before.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I guess you guys have never heard of the phrase throwing the ball away and playing to live another day. Not all plays work and what you do when nothing is there is what matters. In this case like what I was screaming at the TV is throw the damn ball away.

I can point out plenty of plays where receivers weren't open and plenty of plays where they were open. Obviously McCown sits on one side of the fence. I wish he would point out the missed open receivers on plays as well as the plays where nothing is there. I won't hold my breath.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Watson did not have a good game. However, when you look at the videos, any knowledgeable observer can clearly see the Ravens did a great job against the Texans offense and no one including the QB, OL, HC or OC had any answers. Not one play in the previous posts countered what the Ravens were doing.
Does this include throwing the ball at open receivers feet? Kids hard to have answers when your QB was playing as bad as Watson was.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm not trying to put blame on Watson or absolve O'Brien. For all intents & purposes they are the same on Gameday. One is an extension of the other.

When Watson gets to the LOS that's him. When he starts pointing at different people on the defense & starts shouting code to his teammates, that's him.

If BO'b put him in a bad situation then that's something he needs to work out with BO'b between games. In those meeting rooms & on the practice field.

Just like I expect BO'b to find a way to get GMs to work with him, I expect Watson to find a way to get BO'b to work with him.

There's a disconnect with the whole offense. Even that OL looked confused. BO'b & Watson need to figure out how to speak the same language the whole offense can understand.
Wish I could like this 1,000 times.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
See it’s statements like that why it’s hard to take your posts seriously. Fumbling the ball on the first drive, that’s on Watson. Holding the ball to long that’s on Watson. Not seeing the blitz and calling changes at the line or misreading the defense and calling the wrong changes that’s on Watson.

There are plenty of things that on BoB but saying none of it is on Watson is as stupid as saying none of it is on BoB.
Exactly, but you aren't going to convince the Watson only fans of this.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I guess you guys have never heard of the phrase throwing the ball away and playing to live another day. Not all plays work and what you do when nothing is there is what matters. In this case like what I was screaming at the TV is throw the damn ball away.

I can point out plenty of plays where receivers weren't open and plenty of plays where they were open. Obviously McCown sits on one side of the fence. I wish he would point out the missed open receivers on plays as well as the plays where nothing is there. I won't hold my breath.
Screaming at the TV for the QB to throw the ball seems to be a Texans tradition. Carr, Schaub, and Watson.

What ever happened to the QB drill where a bull horn goes off after three seconds?
 

Omerta

Waterboy
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.


I don't really think he's divisive. Most people recognize his greatness. Others don't want to criticize obrien
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
I believe the difference is the fact that you have a SB coach. Our coach doesn't seem to understand the concept of timeouts and 2 minute drills, much less develop a qb.
 
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
He's not, pretty much everyone here is fully behind Watson and is very happy we got him. You are coming into a VERY long debate around here that actually pre-dates Watson. It all comes down to how much each side thinks BoB is to blame and how much each side thinks the players are to blame.

To give you the quick and dirty version basically one side thinks that all Watson needs to be the greatest ever is a new HC, other side thinks that Watson is a good QB but isn't developing enough to hang the future on. Most of us are somewhere in the middle and think that both have issues. Just like in politics though its the loud minority that gets more attention than a, mostly, silent majority. Doesn't help that if you don't fall in lock step with either side they say you are a "OB nut hugger" OR "Jesusincleats crowd".
 
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Omerta

Waterboy
I don't really think he's divisive. Most people recognize his greatness. Others don't want to criticize obrien
That's probably fair. Divisive was a poor choice of words.

I guess it is more holistic than that. I guess O'Brien is the divisive one and Watson is a proxy pawn in the argument.

Admittedly, I'm far less knowledgeable than you guys, so I can't really see what you people see.

I think the Texans are still good. I'm not sure much has changed since before the Baltimore game. People were still picking either Lamar or Russ for MVP while recognizing DW4 had an outside shot. A lot of people thought Baltimore was going to win, and was the better team. Which I think we're both accurate. Nobody foresaw what happened, but realistically speaking, not much has changed.

The Texans probably still win the division, DW4 is still outstanding, the three seed can still happen, so it does not seem all gloom and Doom to me. The Texans are still a good football team who if DW4 gets rolling can beat almost anybody.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Rivers Mccown really does a great job breaking down these plays. Count to three and tell me what is Watson suppose to do?

The quick slant rub route came open. Sometimes you just gotta sit in there, make that throw and take that lick. In that particular clip Coutee, is coming across his face & is open very early. DW4 has to throw him open as well...meaning be accurate & put the ball out in front of Coutee so that the db has no shot to knock it down. It appears the Ravens just disguised the blitz extremely well on this play b/c Scharping & Tunsil essentially passed their guys off to the guy on their right only to realize that the guy on the right wasn't there or was already locked up with someone. Tunsil in particular took a step out to the left expecting a blitz from the db on Coutee.

For DW4's part, it doesn't appear he even considered that the blitz was coming from that side. He looked left, but it appears he never looked at Coutee in the slot there, he was looking outside as Stills who ran a deep out.

But I Don't blame DW4 at all for how he reacted...its just instinct, but sometimes that's what you gotta do.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
You can’t speak out against Watson. If he has a bad game, or a fumble when he should have thrown it away, you can’t bring it up. Even if you want a new HC. Somewhere this turned into an OB vs DW, and it never should have been.

99% want a new HC. 99% believe in Watson.

However - there is this fringe group that thinks Watson does nothing wrong and doesn’t accept saying anything negative.

Then there is this smaller fringe group that just likes to point out his errors to get the other fringe group riled up. (It is the Internet.)

I may or may not be part of the latter fringe group...
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
The quick slant rub route came open. Sometimes you just gotta sit in there, make that throw and take that lick. In that particular clip Coutee, is coming across his face & is open very early. DW4 has to throw him open as well...meaning be accurate & put the ball out in front of Coutee so that the db has no shot to knock it down. It appears the Ravens just disguised the blitz extremely well on this play b/c Scharping & Tunsil essentially passed their guys off to the guy on their right only to realize that the guy on the right wasn't there or was already locked up with someone. Tunsil in particular took a step out to the left expecting a blitz from the db on Coutee.

For DW4's part, it doesn't appear he even considered that the blitz was coming from that side. He looked left, but it appears he never looked at Coutee in the slot there, he was looking outside as Stills who ran a deep out.

But I Don't blame DW4 at all for how he reacted...its just instinct, but sometimes that's what you gotta do.
I don't think it was about taking the lick, Watson has shown he can and will do that. He didn't even appear to look at Coutee. What was the progression of his reads? Because to me, Coutee was not his read at all. He looked up top, then immediately looked away without looking at Coutee. Is this a play design? Did he simply miss his read? We will never know for sure. Either way, to me, it comes down to coaching. Either the design sucked or Watson isn't learning how to progress through his reads correctly.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
That's probably fair. Divisive was a poor choice of words.

I guess it is more holistic than that. I guess O'Brien is the divisive one and Watson is a proxy pawn in the argument.

Admittedly, I'm far less knowledgeable than you guys, so I can't really see what you people see.

I think the Texans are still good. I'm not sure much has changed since before the Baltimore game. People were still picking either Lamar or Russ for MVP while recognizing DW4 had an outside shot. A lot of people thought Baltimore was going to win, and was the better team. Which I think we're both accurate. Nobody foresaw what happened, but realistically speaking, not much has changed.

The Texans probably still win the division, DW4 is still outstanding, the three seed can still happen, so it does not seem all gloom and Doom to me. The Texans are still a good football team who if DW4 gets rolling can beat almost anybody.
To be a champion in football it takes more than just a franchise QB. It takes more than just all pro players. It takes more than X's and O's. In football the head coach is directly responsible to the winning and losing of a team. In no other sport is communication and understanding more vital. Even lady luck will pop in to see how everyone is doing- she's part of the game too!, your last championship run was filled with those type of moments yeah? You guys have a phenomenal coach, who isn't afraid to shake things up and do what is best FOR THE TEAM, and that included scrapping the old offensive system and players, with a new approach that is more suited to the modern game and which will continue to make that team relevant for the foreseeable future. We have a coach who will get mad and emotional and send away one of the best defensive players on the team because they couldn't agree on figures FOR NEXT YEAR!!! How bad does that look now? Just dumped Clowney because he was mad. He'll waste the next 2 drafts building up his current offense, then he'll throw Romeo Crennel a bone with reclamation projects and players with "untapped potential" but in reality they are just JAGS and everyone wonders why the defense is so bad.

See you guys also had an outstanding (and IMO probably the best GMs in football while he was on staff) with Ozzie. Harbaugh and Newsome worked great together and built the foundation of the current team and it has continued with DeCosta, and its noticeable with the product they put on the field (only 7 losing seasons in the 22 year team history). The Baltimore Ravens have a culture. Bill O'Brien got his buddy Brian Gaine hired, only to get him fired a few months later and assume the GM role himself. Players bad mouth OBrien on their way out, I don't seem to hear too much about that when it involves Baltimore. They treat their players well, and they put them in situations to be successful so that everybody thrives and flourishes.

O'Brien thinks he has a "system", but I fail to understand what the identity of his team is after 6 years. Proponents will say he was hamstrung with a rogue GM, and that he never had any talent in the first place to be successful and that all the mistakes he makes during a game are commonplace throughout the league and basically Texan fans should be happy with what they have, you know celebrating division titles and moral victories and that our system "is just like the Patriots" but nothing could be further from the truth.

"Hope springs eternal" and I can totally see being a Raven fan, having the pieces in place to make noise and having the requisite managers in place to turn a vision into a reality. Its a constantly morphing ideology that changes and changes until you settle in on what works with the players and coaches you have. OBriens system does not change. It doesn't mold and adapt to constantly changing defensive tendency, it wants the defense to adapt to it! Problem is nobody is really scared of the Houston offense are they? I mean not until Deshaun Watson came along, and most of that stems from the unknown X FACTOR quality he brings, and how many of the highlights he creates come from unscripted and broken plays.

You can shut down a Bill O'Brien offense by running a 4 shell since most of the passing will be attempted downfield, they hardly incorporate the TE's or RBs into the game plan and don't know what to do when a defense blitzes apparently - its just a clunky, artifact of a system. An infusion of talent on the offensive line has created some more opportunity for increased output in the run game, for an increased ability to keep the QB upright and it doesn't take an air raid or EP or WCO or anything to be successful if your QB can analyze the field and deliver appropriately. O'Brien has been tabbed in several categories as having developed a pattern for certain running plays on certain downs, certain passing plays on certain downs, and I'm not sure he's embraced the analytics movement and how it can help you fashion and tailor a better method of execution and information distribution to all the division heads. I know that Harbaugh and the Ravens place a good deal of value and importance to the analytics side of things.

Watson has his warts, he has a hero gene that needs to be stroked a few times a game, sometimes he does things that makes you wonder if he's human, sometimes he does things that make you wonder if he has a brain. I'll take the hope that HE brings when he's on the field.

we MIGHT make the playoffs again, we MIGHT win the first game, but that is the extent of the expectations here, Obriens fans will say its because he doesn't have enough talent, or the injury bug or this or that, but at the end of the game Bill O'Brien just isn't built to be a champion coach. He fades on the sidelines, his authoritative style of coaching isnt for everyone and he mortgaged the future of the team to save his own ass and had the nerve to say it was an "all in year". While you guys nab players like Marcus Peters for 5th round picks, O'Brien thinks he can turn Gareon Conley into a similar player and doesnt mind giving up a 3rd rounder for him. See the disconnect there?

Its time Texan fans. Its time.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
He has a good head on his shoulders but I hope OB can figure out a working system before he gets calloused.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don't really think he's divisive. Most people recognize his greatness. Others don't want to criticize obrien
I think you need to go back and look at how he has performed against top level defenses for your answer.

BTW, Watson was an inept RS last parting gift that pretty much ensures the Texans will make the playoffs for the next 5 yrs and never win a SB. Thanks Ricky
 


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