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Takeaways from the Ravens game.

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don't think it was about taking the lick, Watson has shown he can and will do that. He didn't even appear to look at Coutee. What was the progression of his reads? Because to me, Coutee was not his read at all. He looked up top, then immediately looked away without looking at Coutee. Is this a play design? Did he simply miss his read? We will never know for sure. Either way, to me, it comes down to coaching. Either the design sucked or Watson isn't learning how to progress through his reads correctly.
I'm going with B.

The reason BOB/Watson aren't a good match. After hiring Carl Smith to try to help get this through to Watson and him not making progress, I think a new HC will have the same results.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Except I already drove home the fallacy in that claim.
No you haven't.

Look at the defenses they played this yr and his performance. You brought up last yr and we were having these same discussions last yr when he was playing tougher defenses. Guess what, you can fire BOB after this yr and hire a new HC and we will still be having this same discussion. Of course the Watson only fans (Not you) will be making the excuse of well, he's learning a new offense under a new staff. Of course 2 yrs from now we will be having the same discussion and there will be even more excuses from the Watson only fans.

After this season this will come down to whether the Teans org thinks Watson can win a championship or not. Or whether they will be happy with making billions with Watson as their franchise QB. Rock/meets hard place and I think we know which direction Cal will go. Anyways we have atleast 5 more yrs of this regardless of who the HC is. I'm just glad I'm not the one that has to make the 35-40 mil per yr decision on the direction of the franchise. I hope I'm wrong BTW.
 
@DanielTx would you test drive the ignore function and confirm it works since the upgrade?
It’s jokes to me. A long with the moderation on the site. I see certain rules apply to certain users. Though, deshaun will put up some good games and carry O’Brien to the playoffs. I’m done with going back and forth. You have raven fans coming here and don’t know what there talking about than you have guys who’ve been wrong in the Watson draft day thread and every time he loses, decides to talk sh**.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't think it was about taking the lick, Watson has shown he can and will do that. He didn't even appear to look at Coutee. What was the progression of his reads? Because to me, Coutee was not his read at all. He looked up top, then immediately looked away without looking at Coutee. Is this a play design? Did he simply miss his read? We will never know for sure. Either way, to me, it comes down to coaching. Either the design sucked or Watson isn't learning how to progress through his reads correctly.
i don't think its either...Its communication. & lets give the Ravens credit here too. They play an aggressive style of defense & in some ways its unconventional. Normally when you run as much nickel & dime as they do, Teams are able to pound the rock on you with so many dbs on the field..& that is the case with them too. But they were able to stop us from doing that. our run game was non existent and they shut it down.

The reason I say you can't blame the design is b/c 1: there were short options open with Coutee & Akins crossing each other in the middle of the field. 2, DW4 does appear to expect he has a reasonable amount of time to scan the field based on his reaction of looking up top at Stills 1st & then coming back to his right. IOW's, whatever he thought was going on upfront, he thought they had it blocked up & he had more time to scan the field than he actually got.

The other thing is, Lots of times, the 1st read depends on what you expect/suspect the defense is doing....An unblocked blitzer? you as the qb should be looking for your hot immediately post snap regardless of what your 1st read would've been if there was no blitz. Alot of times, it just comes down to communicating what you see to everyone else...mostly the o-line. In the particular clip, you could make a case for 2 things, the o-line got confused b/c the Ravens disguised the blitz well................or that they didn't hear the o-line protections/calls DW4 told them to. Probably some combo of both B/c what Scharping & Tunsil did on that play.......they were clearly confused. 1 guy went 1 way, the other went another.

DW4's reaction is also telling.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It’s jokes to me. A long with the moderation on the site. I see certain rules apply to certain users. Though, deshaun will put up some good games and carry O’Brien to the playoffs. I’m done with going back and forth. You have raven fans coming here and don’t know what there talking about than you have guys who’ve been wrong in the Watson draft day thread and every time he loses, decides to talk sh**.
Is thinking Watson isn't the man to lead the Texans to a SB talking crap? Or is it just disagreeing with you?

I've been consistent and have always said I hope I'n wrong since most likely Watson will be here for another 5 yrs.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
i don't think its either...Its communication. & lets give the Ravens credit here too. They play an aggressive style of defense & in some ways its unconventional. Normally when you run as much nickel & dime as they do, Teams are able to pound the rock on you with so many dbs on the field..& that is the case with them too. But they were able to stop us from doing that. our run game was non existent and they shut it down.

The reason I say you can't blame the design is b/c 1: there were short options open with Coutee & Akins crossing each other in the middle of the field. 2, DW4 does appear to expect he has a reasonable amount of time to scan the field based on his reaction of looking up top at Stills 1st & then coming back to his right. IOW's, whatever he thought was going on upfront, he thought they had it blocked up & he had more time to scan the field than he actually got.

The other thing is, Lots of times, the 1st read depends on what you expect/suspect the defense is doing....An unblocked blitzer? you as the qb should be looking for your hot immediately post snap regardless of what your 1st read would've been if there was no blitz. Alot of times, it just comes down to communicating what you see to everyone else...mostly the o-line. In the particular clip, you could make a case for 2 things, the o-line got confused b/c the Ravens disguised the blitz well................or that they didn't hear the o-line protections/calls DW4 told them to. Probably some combo of both B/c what Scharping & Tunsil did on that play.......they were clearly confused. 1 guy went 1 way, the other went another.

DW4's reaction is also telling.
You just described a confused QB.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I'll criticize Watson for legitimate reasons

But poor scheme and playcalling was the problem on Sunday and there isn't much he can do in that case
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
No you haven't.

Look at the defenses they played this yr and his performance. You brought up last yr and we were having these same discussions last yr when he was playing tougher defenses.
I covered both last year and this year vs. top-10 Defenses. Feel free to scroll back up.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
Aside from the responses you've already received, there is also a fair bit of Carr trauma. When David Carr started his career with the Texans, he did some exciting things. He showed flashes. Through some combination of not putting in the work, not getting the best coaching, getting sacked a trillion times, and being coddled by his family, the flashes stopped around the middle of the '04 season. So the entire '04 offseason was spent debating whether or not he was the future of the team. Then in '05, he was just about the worst QB you can imagine. So you had the debates going on about how much was him and how much was the coaching and how much was the terrible team around him. Then the offseason following '05 happened, where he was extended by the team and Capers was fired. After '06 they finally ditched him for good.

So I think a lot of fans have some trauma from that era and (foolishly) question whether Watson will be the future or whether the team will do to him what it did to Carr, ignoring the failures of Carr. It's a mess, honestly.

But yeah, Watson shows all the signs of being a truly transcendent QB. He has some developing to do, and I fear that O'Brien is not putting him in the best position to succeed (see the game against the Ravens). But I don't worry about Watson's work ethic, intangibles, or capability on the field.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Watson did not have a good game. However, when you look at the videos, any knowledgeable observer can clearly see the Ravens did a great job against the Texans offense and no one including the QB, OL, HC or OC had any answers. Not one play in the previous posts countered what the Ravens were doing.

Oh most definitely, he was hot garbage. My thing is, you see your young QB struggling. So how about running some plays that can help him and that offense get going. How about some of those misdirection plays you ran two weeks ago. Especially since you see your receivers were having a very difficult time getting separation.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.

He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.

It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.

Your coach is showing he knows how to adapt to the talent he has. He’s not allowing pride to get in his way.

Over here in Houston our coach has a serious problem with that type of concept.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Oh most definitely, he was hot garbage. My thing is, you see your young QB struggling. So how about running some plays that can help him and that offense get going. How about some of those misdirection plays you ran two weeks ago. Especially since you see your receivers were having a very difficult time getting separation.
I remember when OB was hired he spoke alongside Bob McNair, Cal, and Rick Smith that he had game plans to adapt. McClain has said that was a slight dig at Kubiak who created a reputation of not making adjustments in the game...

Well talk about a snake oil salesman selling ice to an Eskimo.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Your coach is showing he knows how to adapt to the talent he has. He’s not allowing pride to get in his way.

Over here in Houston our coach has a serious problem with that type of concept.
I don’t think OB knows how to make adjustments at this level. I don’t think he has a full grasp of his system.

He beats bad coaches. Loses to good ones.
 

banned1976

American
You can’t speak out against Watson. If he has a bad game, or a fumble when he should have thrown it away, you can’t bring it up. Even if you want a new HC. Somewhere this turned into an OB vs DW, and it never should have been.

99% want a new HC. 99% believe in Watson.

However - there is this fringe group that thinks Watson does nothing wrong and doesn’t accept saying anything negative.

Then there is this smaller fringe group that just likes to point out his errors to get the other fringe group riled up. (It is the Internet.)

I may or may not be part of the latter fringe group...
The OB versus DW started earlier this season when someone who is a firm supporter of OB wrote Watson is too stupid to learn the EP system installed by OB. That is where it started and knowing who wrote that it won’t end until the sun has burned out.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
The OB versus DW started earlier this season when someone who is a firm supporter of OB wrote Watson is too stupid to learn the EP system installed by OB. That is where it started and knowing who wrote that it won’t end until the sun has burned out.
Yea but he even clarified that and said he misspoke.

I wish people would grow up and move on.

Wait - this is the Internet.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
tell me have you ever seen O'Brien roll out ANYTHING that has looked remotely similar to this play right here?
I don't have access to the All-22 anymore. I also don't have the time to study All-22. But this is the question I'm asking.

How do we know O'Brien isn't calling these plays? What we saw on that video could very well be what BO'b envisions when he calls in a play.

But at 1:55 we here the "if/ands" depending on what Watson reads determines how he works through his progression.

What if Watson identified the Mike as the Mike & the line shifts left (in this situation it would have been better).

If Watson starts his progression on the left then the play is lost by the time he gets to his third step & then he's got to work magic.

I don't know if any of that is the problem, but I'm not ready to rule it out. & that doesn't mean Watson is dumb, or can't run this offense.

He looks fine against more straight forward defenses. But the more advanced defenses seem to present a problem.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don't have access to the All-22 anymore. I also don't have the time to study All-22. But this is the question I'm asking.

How do we know O'Brien isn't calling these plays? What we saw on that video could very well be what BO'b envisions when he calls in a play.

But at 1:55 we here the "if/ands" depending on what Watson reads determines how he works through his progression.

What if Watson identified the Mike as the Mike & the line shifts left (in this situation it would have been better).

If Watson starts his progression on the left then the play is lost by the time he gets to his third step & then he's got to work magic.

I don't know if any of that is the problem, but I'm not ready to rule it out. & that doesn't mean Watson is dumb, or can't run this offense.

He looks fine against more straight forward defenses. But the more advanced defenses seem to present a problem.
The What If game.

You would think if there was never a What if game this would be the game. What if Watson doesn't fumble and on the next series the INT had been called. What if Watson hadn't thrown that dumb INT? (I'm not calling him dumb, but it was a very dumb decision) What if Watson hadn't been throwing at his receivers feet. All kinds of What If's on the defensive side of the ball.
 

Earl34

Rookie
I'm going with B.

The reason BOB/Watson aren't a good match. After hiring Carl Smith to try to help get this through to Watson and him not making progress, I think a new HC will have the same results.
What‘s interesting about your opinions on Watson is you always ignore he has barely played two seasons and you NEVER compare him to other QBs at the same point in their careers.

For example, Carl Smith has worked with Watson for 10 games. After Russell Wilson worked with Smith for 10 games, he was still a game manager relying on the running game and defense. In fact, in his first 10 games with Smith, do you know Wilson threw for less than 200 yards in seven of them? Wilson even won a game where he completed less than 50% of his passes for only 122 yards. How many games do you think the Texans can win with Watson throwing for 122 yards?

If you were a GM, you would have given up on Manning, Brees and even Wilson at the same point in their careers as Watson.
 
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Earl34

Rookie
I remember when OB was hired he spoke alongside Bob McNair, Cal, and Rick Smith that he had game plans to adapt. McClain has said that was a slight dig at Kubiak who created a reputation of not making adjustments in the game...

Well talk about a snake oil salesman selling ice to an Eskimo.
There is always a debate regarding the Shanahan/Kubiak offense and audibles. The coaches believe when they call a play, there are counters within that play for the QB so the system minimizes audibles. Some say it’s too rigid, others say it’s QB friendly.

I was watching the Vikings and immediately recognize that Cousins was running some of the same bootlegs and throws to the TEs that we saw Kubiak running with the Texans.

Besides running in the A gap and deep crossing routes, I have no idea what is the identity of the Texans‘ offense and I doubt the players know.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
There is always a debate regarding the Shanahan/Kubiak offense and audibles. The coaches believe when they call a play, there are counters within that play for the QB so the system minimizes audibles. Some say it’s too rigid, others say it’s QB friendly.

I was watching the Vikings and immediately recognize that Cousins was running some of the same bootlegs and throws to the TEs that we saw Kubiak running with the Texans.

Besides running in the A gap and deep crossing routes, I have no idea what is the identity of the Texans‘ offense and I doubt the players know.

The Texans identity seems to be slow developing iso routes where WRs run into each other. At least until OBrien is so desperate he calls normal plays and Watson puts up 50 points.

Imagine Watson with Harbaugh or Andy reid. It would be nuts.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
There is always a debate regarding the Shanahan/Kubiak offense and audibles. The coaches believe when they call a play, there are counters within that play for the QB so the system minimizes audibles. Some say it’s too rigid, others say it’s QB friendly.

I was watching the Vikings and immediately recognize that Cousins was running some of the same bootlegs and throws to the TEs that we saw Kubiak running with the Texans.

Besides running in the A gap and deep crossing routes, I have no idea what is the identity of the Texans‘ offense and I doubt the players know.
You can't leave out the bubble screens.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I’m still looking. Where are these open WRs?
He could have taken a couple of steps forward in the pocket to his right, but took one step towards it, hesitated and decided to go backwards instead. Had he continued forward, our Oline split a nice hole for him to run through or buy time to pass to the 2 receivers deep on the left that were hooking back with totally open space in front of them.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
What‘s interesting about your opinions on Watson is you always ignore he has barely played two seasons and you NEVER compare him to other QBs at the same point in their careers.

For example, Carl Smith has worked with Watson for 10 games. After Russell Wilson worked with Smith for 10 games, he was still a game manager relying on the running game and defense. In fact, in his first 10 games with Smith, do you know Wilson threw for less than 200 yards in seven of them? Wilson even won a game where he completEd less than 50% of his passes for only 122 yards. How many games do you think the Texans can win with Watson throwing for 122 yards?

If you were a GM, you would have given up on Manning, Brees and even Wilson at the same point in their careers as Watson.
I would be happy with Watson being a game manager at this point in his career, do you think Watson has made progress under Smith's tutalege this year?
 
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OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I love the mods and all of the changes. I'm not contributing because I dont have a paypal acct. I've met quite a few of the members and regardless of whether we agree or dont their still awesome members and we need to meet up again when Texans are away. Maybe in the playoffs.

I live in Kingwood and my friends are opening up a bar that we can have all to ourselves. A more central place would be down on White Oak. (Christian's tailgate.)
Hey, we just closed on a house in Atascocita. Will be home in May for a month. Then its off to school for my wife and then our last 3 year stint at the US Embassy in Paris. A childhood friend of mine lives 5 homes down and his brother will be my maintenance guy while we're gone. Can't wait to officially move into our new place.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Hey, we just closed on a house in Atascocita. Will be home in May for a month. Then its off to school for my wife and then our last 3 year stint at the US Embassy in Paris. A childhood friend of mine lives 5 homes down and his brother will be my maintenance guy while we're gone. Can't wait to officially move into our new place.
Let me know when you get here and I will buy you a beer.
 
After seeing the defending NFC champ Rams get blown out at home by the Ravens, I don't feel near as negative about the Texans performance against Baltimore. But we have an issue with game planning a game management I don't think will improve under BOB
 

Omerta

Waterboy
After seeing the defending NFC champ Rams get blown out at home by the Ravens, I don't feel near as negative about the Texans performance against Baltimore. But we have an issue with game planning a game management I don't think will improve under BOB
People still haven't figured Jackson out. But even if you do, do you have the personnel ? Many here and for the Rams banked on the" make him stay on the pocket and best is with his arm" gameplay, and it keeps failing.

We will be stopped at one point but it is going to take talent, AND a masterful scheme. They don't get much more talented than the Rams front, maybe the 9ers, but they got embarrassed too. Wade Phillips is damn good on defense as you well know. If we go out and do it to the 9ers I have no idea what can stop him.

People always say hit him and he won't run. Well first you have to catch him, second yes, he will. The 9ers are almost a carbon copy of the Ravens, except their talent is up front, ours is the secondary. They run too, and we have more talented QB. IF we win this game convincingly, I'm not sure what it will take. It probably starts on offense. Just run it and keep Lamar on the field. It seems as though he can score at will. The greatest defensive minds of this century couldn't scheme it up, so it's got to be a scheme and unbelievable talent.

Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could because of Watt and Mercilus, or maybe Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus could have. Not trying to bigheaded or anything, I have just never seen anything like it. And his preparation is becoming legendary around Baltimore.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
People still haven't figured Jackson out. But even if you do, do you have the personnel ? Many here and for the Rams banked on the" make him stay on the pocket and best is with his arm" gameplay, and it keeps failing.

We will be stopped at one point but it is going to take talent, AND a masterful scheme. They don't get much more talented than the Rams front, maybe the 9ers, but they got embarrassed too. Wade Phillips is damn good on defense as you well know. If we go out and do it to the 9ers I have no idea what can stop him.

People always say hit him and he won't run. Well first you have to catch him, second yes, he will. The 9ers are almost a carbon copy of the Ravens, except their talent is up front, ours is the secondary. They run too, and we have more talented QB. IF we win this game convincingly, I'm not sure what it will take. It probably starts on offense. Just run it and keep Lamar on the field. It seems as though he can score at will. The greatest defensive minds of this century couldn't scheme it up, so it's got to be a scheme and unbelievable talent.

Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could because of Watt and Mercilus, or maybe Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus could have. Not trying to bigheaded or anything, I have just never seen anything like it. And his preparation is becoming legendary around Baltimore.
He won't even be starting in a few years. His ability to run and scramble the way he is will only last so long. Cordell Stewart had his moments where he looked great for a while, but it never lasted long.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
He won't even be starting in a few years. His ability to run and scramble the way he is will only last so long. Cordell Stewart had his moments where he looked great for a while, but it never lasted long.
Ya know, he is only in his 2nd year. He just might be able to continue to grow and learn this game and be one of the all time very goods, if not greats. I mean, people already thought he should have changed positions coming into the league.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Ya know, he is only in his 2nd year. He just might be able to continue to grow and learn this game and be one of the all time very goods, if not greats. I mean, people already thought he should have changed positions coming into the league.
I've seen to many guys just like him come around this league. I don't see him any different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer. Taylor wasn't bad overall, but eventually his running wasn't as effective. Wait until Jackson gets injured and starts thinking about his body more or where he isn't as elusive and care free about running. He doesn't have an arm like Russell Wilson or even Watson. I know his TD numbers look good lately, but they are generally short passes where his receivers are pretty wide open. Remember RG3 got ROTY and was awesome up until the injuries came, and mentally he was never the same once his physical attributes became vulnerable.
 

dream_team

All Pro
People still haven't figured Jackson out. But even if you do, do you have the personnel ? Many here and for the Rams banked on the" make him stay on the pocket and best is with his arm" gameplay, and it keeps failing.

We will be stopped at one point but it is going to take talent, AND a masterful scheme. They don't get much more talented than the Rams front, maybe the 9ers, but they got embarrassed too. Wade Phillips is damn good on defense as you well know. If we go out and do it to the 9ers I have no idea what can stop him.

People always say hit him and he won't run. Well first you have to catch him, second yes, he will. The 9ers are almost a carbon copy of the Ravens, except their talent is up front, ours is the secondary. They run too, and we have more talented QB. IF we win this game convincingly, I'm not sure what it will take. It probably starts on offense. Just run it and keep Lamar on the field. It seems as though he can score at will. The greatest defensive minds of this century couldn't scheme it up, so it's got to be a scheme and unbelievable talent.

Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could because of Watt and Mercilus, or maybe Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus could have. Not trying to bigheaded or anything, I have just never seen anything like it. And his preparation is becoming legendary around Baltimore.
I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.

With that being said, the big question is, "Is this sustainable?". Come on, we've seen this story time and time again. Vick, RGIII, Kaepernick, Cam. Those guys came out running the read option and were difficult to stop. Eventually, their bodies aren't designed to take on this many hits and will need to develop their passing game in the pocket. We shall wait and see how Lamar progresses.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could
No. Only thing stopping the Ravens this year is the Ravens. They have a plethora of ways to get the ball carrier free. Whether it's the receiver, the RB, or the QB. 11 guys can't stop everything. So they have to prepare for what is most likely. They win some, lose some, but try to win more than they don't.

With Baltimore, unless you have a crystal ball, you're blind. You're a blind man fighting Ali in his prime. Shut the inside run down, they'll toss it. Contain the strong side & they'll stretch weakside. Contain both sides, then they'll pitch it. You can't contain both sides & the middle, because he'll get you throwing the ball.

& their defense is good enough to keep you from getting a lead, much less extending a lead.

Only thing stopping the Ravens this year is the Ravens.
 

Omerta

Waterboy
I've seen to many guys just like him come around this league. I don't see him any different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer. Taylor wasn't bad overall, but eventually his running wasn't as effective. Wait until Jackson gets injured and starts thinking about his body more or where he isn't as elusive and care free about running. He doesn't have an arm like Russell Wilson or even Watson. I know his TD numbers look good lately, but they are generally short passes where his receivers are pretty wide open. Remember RG3 got ROTY and was awesome up until the injuries came, and mentally he was never the same once his physical attributes became vulnerable.
No you havent. This league has never seen a Lamar Jackson. That is why he is setting a record week after week after week. I think this was a 3rd week in a row he shattered records. If you see him no different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer you are missing a lot. I think it is still stunning that people will refuse to think that THEIR QB can get better but Lamar is going to only be as good at passing as he is right now. If you look at the improvement from one offseason to the next, it is remarkable the progress he made. People are flabbergasted at how improved he has become. If he improves that much again, which is entirely possible seeing as he is 22, Then what? What will the excuse be? Well he can throw with the best of them, but he sure cant run like Barry Sanders ? The kid is going to get better, unless you think that is outside the realm of possibility.

I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.

With that being said, the big question is, "Is this sustainable?". Come on, we've seen this story time and time again. Vick, RGIII, Kaepernick, Cam. Those guys came out running the read option and were difficult to stop. Eventually, their bodies aren't designed to take on this many hits and will need to develop their passing game in the pocket. We shall wait and see how Lamar progresses.
The thing is Lamar is better at throwing than any of those guys except for Cam. That said I think he is more complete than any of them. He is more accurate than any of them right now, he can read a defense better than any of them ever could and it is his second year. Now does he have the Arm strength as some of them? No, but he can still throw it 70 yards, and when most drives start on the 20 or 25, that is plenty of arm strength. That said, the current offense as it is right now, whether sustainable or not, isnt going to be long for the game. They are just dong this to get Lamar successful reps until his passing game catches up. Everyone in the Ravens building knows that Lamar will stay Lamar, but the real goal is to get 3 offseasons of improvement under his belt to transition him to a great passer, than can take off when the play breaks down.

The biggest difference in him between those guys is between his ears. As I mentioned, his work ethic is becomeing legend in an organization who has a storied history of workout warriors and film geeks. He has improved since he played the Texans to the Rams. The Rams brought a corner blitz, that was in the exact defense the Texans used and forced Lamar to run. This time, he recognized the zero blitz and the corner coming off, audibled to his hot read, and hit Brown for a touchdown. He is already far better at preparing than Vick, he is certainly more humble than all of them, is far and away a better leader than any of them. As an anecdote to that, we lost our starting center VS the Rams to a knee injury. So instead of making him walk all the way back to the back of the Plane, Lamar gave an unheralded Center his seat, and sat in the back with the o line, and no name guys. He is not a crybaby diva like Cam, and is already smarter.

I think this offense is sustainable for as long as we choose it to be, which MAY be for 2 more years. They are already transitioning him to a pocket passer who can run instead someone who is doing designed runs. If he improves as much as he did from year 1 to year 2, in year 3 and 4, he is going to be an elite passer soon. He is already tied with Russel for most TD passes, and only has 2 more interceptions, with playing the hardest schedule in the league.
 

dream_team

All Pro
No you havent. This league has never seen a Lamar Jackson. That is why he is setting a record week after week after week. I think this was a 3rd week in a row he shattered records. If you see him no different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer you are missing a lot. I think it is still stunning that people will refuse to think that THEIR QB can get better but Lamar is going to only be as good at passing as he is right now. If you look at the improvement from one offseason to the next, it is remarkable the progress he made. People are flabbergasted at how improved he has become. If he improves that much again, which is entirely possible seeing as he is 22, Then what? What will the excuse be? Well he can throw with the best of them, but he sure cant run like Barry Sanders ? The kid is going to get better, unless you think that is outside the realm of possibility.



The thing is Lamar is better at throwing than any of those guys except for Cam. That said I think he is more complete than any of them. He is more accurate than any of them right now, he can read a defense better than any of them ever could and it is his second year. Now does he have the Arm strength as some of them? No, but he can still throw it 70 yards, and when most drives start on the 20 or 25, that is plenty of arm strength. That said, the current offense as it is right now, whether sustainable or not, isnt going to be long for the game. They are just dong this to get Lamar successful reps until his passing game catches up. Everyone in the Ravens building knows that Lamar will stay Lamar, but the real goal is to get 3 offseasons of improvement under his belt to transition him to a great passer, than can take off when the play breaks down.

The biggest difference in him between those guys is between his ears. As I mentioned, his work ethic is becomeing legend in an organization who has a storied history of workout warriors and film geeks. He has improved since he played the Texans to the Rams. The Rams brought a corner blitz, that was in the exact defense the Texans used and forced Lamar to run. This time, he recognized the zero blitz and the corner coming off, audibled to his hot read, and hit Brown for a touchdown. He is already far better at preparing than Vick, he is certainly more humble than all of them, is far and away a better leader than any of them. As an anecdote to that, we lost our starting center VS the Rams to a knee injury. So instead of making him walk all the way back to the back of the Plane, Lamar gave an unheralded Center his seat, and sat in the back with the o line, and no name guys. He is not a crybaby diva like Cam, and is already smarter.

I think this offense is sustainable for as long as we choose it to be, which MAY be for 2 more years. They are already transitioning him to a pocket passer who can run instead someone who is doing designed runs. If he improves as much as he did from year 1 to year 2, in year 3 and 4, he is going to be an elite passer soon. He is already tied with Russel for most TD passes, and only has 2 more interceptions, with playing the hardest schedule in the league.
Well as a Texans fan... I hope you're wrong. :)
The game against the 9ers will be good, but I'm still predicting the Ravens to win rather easily.
 

Omerta

Waterboy
Well as a Texans fan... I hope you're wrong. :)
The game against the 9ers will be good, but I'm still predicting the Ravens to win rather easily.
You should pray I'm right. The league is enamored with Lamar at the moment, but I have a feeling you could have a QB who could do some great things to as he is further in his development as a passer. You just have to build an offense around the kid. Your offense is uber talented and if you get a guy who will build around what Deshaun is good at, it would be as good as the Ravens offense, because you have more talent on the perimeter. AS to the 9ers game, who knows. They are uber talented too, and could be disruptive with their front 4 so we are going to find out how good both teams are.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
If Lamar wins a ring or two in only 6 yrs of playing time then he will have done than more than many great qbs in 10 or 15 yrs

I'm cheering for the kid

My wife doesnt watch football anymore unless it's the playoffs or superbowl.

Monday night she sat down to watch him for a bit. Shes a fan of his too now
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If you see him no different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer you are missing a lot. I think it is still stunning that people will refuse to think that THEIR QB can get better but Lamar is going to only be as good at passing as he is right now.
Tyrod Taylor never did anything. I don't know why he put his name in there.

But Kapernick... I can see Jackson's career taking a similar path. Without the political bull. Kap was in a similar situation & looked like he was unstoppable & redefining at one time. Then something changed & he never got back on track.

In hindsight we can say he never had it. It was all about scheme & surrounding talent.

Vick was the same way.

You are absolutely right. What the Ravens are doing now hasn't been done before. It's new.

The question is do they even know what they did? Can they keep it going? Is this repeatable? Lamar Jackson is a big part of it. Can he hold it together? Keep outside influences to a minimum?

Your riding a tidal wave right now. The offseason is coming & that is going to slow everything down. That's going to introduce change. Can the Ravens identify what the team needs, what it doesn't & how to adapt.

I guarantee every team in the North will be thinking about the Ravens when they address their roster, their staff, their philosophy... their whole operation. & so will every other top team in the league.
 

Omerta

Waterboy
Tyrod Taylor never did anything. I don't know why he put his name in there.

But Kapernick... I can see Jackson's career taking a similar path. Without the political bull. Kap was in a similar situation & looked like he was unstoppable & redefining at one time. Then something changed & he never got back on track.

In hindsight we can say he never had it. It was all about scheme & surrounding talent.

Vick was the same way.

You are absolutely right. What the Ravens are doing now hasn't been done before. It's new.

The question is do they even know what they did? Can they keep it going? Is this repeatable? Lamar Jackson is a big part of it. Can he hold it together? Keep outside influences to a minimum?

Your riding a tidal wave right now. The offseason is coming & that is going to slow everything down. That's going to introduce change. Can the Ravens identify what the team needs, what it doesn't & how to adapt.

I guarantee every team in the North will be thinking about the Ravens when they address their roster, their staff, their philosophy... their whole operation. & so will every other top team in the league.


This is the mindset he had. Nobody Cares, work harder. Predicting the future is a fools errand, but from all the evidence we have now, this kid cares about one thing and one thing only, football. Listen to any 5 of his interviews about people calling him MVP, and his basic response is, "I dont give a ****, I want to win a Superbowl" He is still EXTREMELY pissed 31 teams didnt think he had it. This kid just grinds, and sleeps, and then grinds some more.

I would love to talk about this some more, but this is the last I will comment on it in this thread, because I dont want to hijack a Texans forum and turn it into Lamar Jacksons forum. I feel I have already carried it too far even though I was just replying, so Im not going to push my luck. Now I would carry on this conversation with enthusiasm in the Other teams section.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is the mindset he had. Nobody Cares, work harder. Predicting the future is a fools errand, but from all the evidence we have now, this kid cares about one thing and one thing only, football.
This kid is now a Super Star. Last offseason has nothing to do with this coming off season.

Yes, we all hope our QB improves from year to year. Don't get sideways when a few fans of another team don't share your optimism.

Keep it real.

Lamar is a big part of what's driving that train in Baltimore. But only a part. Jackson can handle the offseason perfectly. But one little change in the organization can derail the offense & it'll affect the perception of Lamar.

Remember the Eagles offense was unstoppable one year, they lose Deshaun Jackson & they can't move the ball next year.

What happens if Greg Roman becomes the Cowboys HC?

& I don't even want to talk about the injury we hope he doesn't sustain with his style of play that may force him to develop on a faster pace.
 

Omerta

Waterboy
This kid is now a Super Star. Last offseason has nothing to do with this coming off season.

Yes, we all hope our QB improves from year to year. Don't get sideways when a few fans of another team don't share your optimism.

Keep it real.

Lamar is a big part of what's driving that train in Baltimore. But only a part. Jackson can handle the offseason perfectly. But one little change in the organization can derail the offense & it'll affect the perception of Lamar.

Remember the Eagles offense was unstoppable one year, they lose Deshaun Jackson & they can't move the ball next year.

What happens if Greg Roman becomes the Cowboys HC?

& I don't even want to talk about the injury we hope he doesn't sustain with his style of play that may force him to develop on a faster pace.
Oh, I'm not sideways. I'm just stating an opinion.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Tyrod Taylor never did anything. I don't know why he put his name in there.

But Kapernick... I can see Jackson's career taking a similar path. Without the political bull. Kap was in a similar situation & looked like he was unstoppable & redefining at one time. Then something changed & he never got back on track.

In hindsight we can say he never had it. It was all about scheme & surrounding talent.

Vick was the same way.

You are absolutely right. What the Ravens are doing now hasn't been done before. It's new.

The question is do they even know what they did? Can they keep it going? Is this repeatable? Lamar Jackson is a big part of it. Can he hold it together? Keep outside influences to a minimum?

Your riding a tidal wave right now. The offseason is coming & that is going to slow everything down. That's going to introduce change. Can the Ravens identify what the team needs, what it doesn't & how to adapt.

I guarantee every team in the North will be thinking about the Ravens when they address their roster, their staff, their philosophy... their whole operation. & so will every other top team in the league.
To start the season and after the first couple games , I thought nothing much of Lamar Jackson ….Meh , he played a couple crappy teams and did what he was supposed to do … beat them convincingly.

The KC game - He damn near brought them back in from a 30-13 hole and eventually lost 33-28. Watching him in that 4th quarter kinda changed my perception.
Then beating the SeaDucks in their place , beating the Pats convincingly and the beatdown they put on the Texans …. and then manhandling the Rams. They've beaten really talented , well coached teams and Jackson has been the catalyst.

I know Wilson has been the frontrunner for MVP but my vote goes to Jackson.

They built that offense to suit him and he's made the most of it. Can they sustain it ? I think they can as long as he's healthy.

As for other teams watching what the Ravens are doing - I wish our Texans were actually paying attention to that offense cause we have a very similar talent at QB who's quite a bit more polished as a passer. This team should be doing much of what they are with Jackson.
 


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