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Takeaways from the Ravens game.

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
To start the season and after the first couple games , I thought nothing much of Lamar Jackson ….Meh , he played a couple crappy teams and did what he was supposed to do … beat them convincingly.

The KC game - He damn near brought them back in from a 30-13 hole and eventually lost 33-28. Watching him in that 4th quarter kinda changed my perception.
Then beating the SeaDucks in their place , beating the Pats convincingly and the beatdown they put on the Texans …. and then manhandling the Rams. They've beaten really talented , well coached teams and Jackson has been the catalyst.

I know Wilson has been the frontrunner for MVP but my vote goes to Jackson.

They built that offense to suit him and he's made the most of it. Can they sustain it ? I think they can as long as he's healthy.

As for other teams watching what the Ravens are doing - I wish our Texans were actually paying attention to that offense cause we have a very similar talent at QB who's quite a bit more polished as a passer. This team should be doing much of what they are with Jackson.
In all honesty......the Texans and Watson have better weapons on offense than the Ravens and Jackson. It's a shame the Texans haven't found a way to exploit what they have more often.
 

Omerta

Waterboy
In all honesty......the Texans and Watson have better weapons on offense than the Ravens and Jackson. It's a shame the Texans haven't found a way to exploit what they have more often.
It depends on what you mean weapons. Our online is faaar better. But you have Nuk. If the Texans had Greg Roman they are doing what the Ravens are right now. Or at least close, I think we have the better defense. Either way Texans own the AFC at the moment.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
In all honesty......the Texans and Watson have better weapons on offense than the Ravens and Jackson. It's a shame the Texans haven't found a way to exploit what they have more often.

The Texans have done all they could to make Watson a prototypical drop back passer rather than taking advantage of his strengths. Its the proverbial square peg in a round hole. Only person to blame is OB.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The Texans have done all they could to make Watson a prototypical drop back passer rather than taking advantage of his strengths. Its the proverbial square peg in a round hole. Only person to blame is OB.
I blame the person who drafted a QB who didn't fit his HC's system. One things for sure, BOB/Watson are a bad match. BOB even changed the offense to try to fit Watson, too no avail.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Its the proverbial square peg in a round hole. Only person to blame is OB.
Far as I can tell O'Brien has never discouraged Watson from doing his thing. Work the play, then if needed, work your magic.

Which is the Aaron Rodgers model.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I blame the person who drafted a QB who didn't fit his HC's system. One things for sure, BOB/Watson are a bad match. BOB even changed the offense to try to fit Watson, too no avail.
Darnold, Allen, whoever, I haven't seen a QB who can come into this league & consistently win from the pocket. They all have to have the ability to tuck it & run to make up for experience vs NFL defenses.

& that's the problem I see here. The O'Brien offense wants him to play from the pocket. The "incorporate his talents" offense is the one that will help him transition to the NFL.

It's stubbornness on the coaches part to expect a young QB to be ready for the full NFL offense he wants to run.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Darnold, Allen, whoever, I haven't seen a QB who can come into this league & consistently win from the pocket. They all have to have the ability to tuck it & run to make up for experience vs NFL defenses.

& that's the problem I see here. The O'Brien offense wants him to play from the pocket. The "incorporate his talents" offense is the one that will help him transition to the NFL.

It's stubbornness on the coaches part to expect a young QB to be ready for the full NFL offense he wants to run.
Of course a QB has to have mobility. But it shouldn't be his 1st weapon that he resorts too. Look at Josh Allen as an example of what I hope Watson can become.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I blame the person who drafted a QB who didn't fit his HC's system. One things for sure, BOB/Watson are a bad match. BOB even changed the offense to try to fit Watson, too no avail.

Look , Watson is a very talented player …. at the most difficult position to fill in the entirety of professional sports - You don't pass up that talent. Cant blame Rick Smith for this one - He gave OB a really good player to work with.

Its up to OB to realize what he has , what that guys strengths and weaknesses are and to adapt his offense to that player.

OB hasn't done that , he's continued to try to force a square peg into a round hole and damnit , its going to fit says the guy who's only tool is a hammer.

You look at what Harbaugh is doing with Lamar Jackson who is not near as polished passer as Watson and you have to wonder what can be if OB would adapt.

This is on OB
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Look , Watson is a very talented player …. at the most difficult position to fill in the entirety of professional sports - You don't pass up that talent. Cant blame Rick Smith for this one - He gave OB a really good player to work with.

Its up to OB to realize what he has , what that guys strengths and weaknesses are and to adapt his offense to that player.

OB hasn't done that , he's continued to try to force a square peg into a round hole and damnit , its going to fit says the guy who's only tool is a hammer.

You look at what Harbaugh is doing with Lamar Jackson who is not near as polished passer as Watson and you have to wonder what can be if OB would adapt.

This is on OB
Steel B has no arguement. I mean its DW4, not Hoyer or Mallet or fitz

All the meanwhile that Baltimore staff has adapted to a player given

The VHS system is dead when Brady moves on
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Of course a QB has to have mobility. But it shouldn't be his 1st weapon that he resorts too. Look at Josh Allen as an example of what I hope Watson can become.
I hope Watson can become a lot more than Josh Allen.

But I see what you are saying. Allen would be a better fit for O'Brien.

But Watson can be what Allen can never be. IMO he has a higher ceiling.

I'd rather my coach be able to maximize the talent he has, than maximize his system based on the talent he gets.

That's fine, that you prefer the latter. & that we have the latter. & now that OB is 100% in charge I wish we had waited & got Darnold or Allen.

But we didn't & we need OB to be the former, at least for a little while as Watson transitions to the NFL.

Let me ask you this. Will we go further in the playoffs this year with OB calling the game for a pure pocket passer, or a mobile QB?

How far do you want to go in the playoffs?
 
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Omerta

Waterboy
Look , Watson is a very talented player …. at the most difficult position to fill in the entirety of professional sports - You don't pass up that talent. Cant blame Rick Smith for this one - He gave OB a really good player to work with.

Its up to OB to realize what he has , what that guys strengths and weaknesses are and to adapt his offense to that player.

OB hasn't done that , he's continued to try to force a square peg into a round hole and damnit , its going to fit says the guy who's only tool is a hammer.

You look at what Harbaugh is doing with Lamar Jackson who is not near as polished passer as Watson and you have to wonder what can be if OB would adapt.

This is on OB
I won't assign blame but I would like to point out your brilliance here. If you have someone who can be a generational talent, you again to them... ESPECIALLY at QB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
SteelB hopes watson can be josh allen

My soul hurts like I realized santa wasnt real

I don't think that's being fair to Jay …. He's been around here forever , thru the good and bad. He just wants to see this team win … just like the rest of us.

He's looking around to see what's working and what isn't just like the rest of us and who knows , maybe he's right , OB may not be the problem , it might be Watson.

I don't agree with him , OB may not be the problem but he sure hasn't shown to be the solution - but that's beside the point - We all want the same thing.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You look at what Harbaugh is doing with Lamar Jackson who is not near as polished passer as Watson and you have to wonder what can be if OB would adapt.
I look at what Harbaugh is doing & shake my head. Yes, he may win a Super Bowl this way... but, I don't know.

With Andrew Luck I was happy as long as they allowed him to play Rugby. We did not need him advancing his game.

Watson will be better off in the long run if he transitions to an NFL QB than wondering why he's not encouraged to tuck & run.

Short term, I'm with you. Whatever it takes to win a game. But the sooner he transitions to NFL QB, the better for us & Watson.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
He's looking around to see what's working and what isn't just like the rest of us and who knows , maybe he's right , OB may not be the problem , it might be Watson.
His position is O'Brien is not the problem. Watson is.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Look , Watson is a very talented player …. at the most difficult position to fill in the entirety of professional sports - You don't pass up that talent. Cant blame Rick Smith for this one - He gave OB a really good player to work with.

Its up to OB to realize what he has , what that guys strengths and weaknesses are and to adapt his offense to that player.

OB hasn't done that , he's continued to try to force a square peg into a round hole and damnit , its going to fit says the guy who's only tool is a hammer.

You look at what Harbaugh is doing with Lamar Jackson who is not near as polished passer as Watson and you have to wonder what can be if OB would adapt.

This is on OB
You really want your 2 time ACL QB playing like LJ? OK
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Do I think they can with Jesusincleats at QB regardless of the HC? Nope
If they play the JIC offense we can win the Super Bowl. This year. I honestly believe that.

Play to Watson's strengths, perfect the RPO game, work on running from the gun every day, help Watson get the ball to the play makers on more than the bubble screen.

Use misderections & fakes like it's going out of style. Win an AFCCG & earn at least a morsel of credibility to justify the power you currently have in this organization.

Just win baby.

You've gone all in. Now is not the time to wish your starting QB is not the guy who is your starting QB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
You really want your 2 time ACL QB playing like LJ? OK

I think there's a lot less chance of him getting hurt outside the pocket than in that cluster of bodies.

But I don't think you run that exact offense either … I'm just saying you don't expect Watson to be Brady or Brees in the pocket. Those dudes are just different types of QB's with nearly two decades of experience.
Really , I think the WCO is the way to go with Watson … with plenty of plays that get him outside the pocket where the defense has to honor his open field ability.
When they have to account for that , they have to give up something else.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If they play the JIC offense we can win the Super Bowl. This year. I honestly believe that.

Play to Watson's strengths, perfect the RPO game, work on running from the gun every day, help Watson get the ball to the play makers on more than the bubble screen.

Use misderections & fakes like it's going out of style. Win an AFCCG & earn at least a morsel of credibility to justify the power you currently have in this organization.

Just win baby.

You've gone all in. Now is not the time to wish your starting QB is not the guy who is your starting QB.
I dont wish anything but wish the Texans could win a SB. But this isn't the yr.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If they play the JIC offense we can win the Super Bowl. This year. I honestly believe that.

Play to Watson's strengths, perfect the RPO game, work on running from the gun every day, help Watson get the ball to the play makers on more than the bubble screen.

Use misderections & fakes like it's going out of style. Win an AFCCG & earn at least a morsel of credibility to justify the power you currently have in this organization.

Just win baby.

You've gone all in. Now is not the time to wish your starting QB is not the guy who is your starting QB.
I dont wish anything but wish the Texans could win a SB. But this isn't the yr.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I know you're a WCO guy and maybe because it limits the QB's decision making at the LOS that would make Jesusincleats more effective. With this said, I dont think it would make that big of a difference.I find the WCO to be very predictable and I still think Jesusincleats would still make the 2 or 3 mistakes he makes every game. Plus in the WCO short/intermediate accuracy is paramount and that's not a strength of his.

You have heard too much BS around here about Kubiak's offense and not being able to audible - That's just incorrect. There's a lot more to it than that.

8 in the box and a run play is called - you have the freedom to audible.

See something in the secondary to exploit - you have the ability to change routes.

And its completely unpredictable because everything looks the same from the snap to the handoff / play fake. The only indicator you have is down and distance. And there is so much variance in the passing plays you can run out of multiple sets.
It makes defenses react to it in real time , that puts pressure on 11 defenders every snap to make the right decision instantly …. or give up a big play.

That offense is a QB's best friend …. it doesn't take an all world talent to make it go. Just look at what Kubiak got out of second rate talent at QB.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You have heard too much BS around here about Kubiak's offense and not being able to audible - That's just incorrect. There's a lot more to it than that.

8 in the box and a run play is called - you have the freedom to audible.

See something in the secondary to exploit - you have the ability to change routes.

And its completely unpredictable because everything looks the same from the snap to the handoff / play fake. The only indicator you have is down and distance. And there is so much variance in the passing plays you can run out of multiple sets.
It makes defenses react to it in real time , that puts pressure on 11 defenders every snap to make the right decision instantly …. or give up a big play.

That offense is a QB's best friend …. it doesn't take an all world talent to make it go. Just look at what Kubiak got out of second rate talent at QB.
I found that I knew what play was going to be called pretty regularly.

Even though Schaub was Kubiak's handpicked QB, I actually agree with the last sentence in your post.

BTW, I can pretty much predict what BOB's going to run too. Kubiak is a much better strategic HC than BOB is. But both are much to conservative for my tastes. Although BOB has changed alot in this regard this yr.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.

With that being said, the big question is, "Is this sustainable?". Come on, we've seen this story time and time again. Vick, RGIII, Kaepernick, Cam. Those guys came out running the read option and were difficult to stop. Eventually, their bodies aren't designed to take on this many hits and will need to develop their passing game in the pocket. We shall wait and see how Lamar progresses.
Now I’m wondering are you one of my buddies on Facebook, because he asked this same question. And my response was 4950 yards passing, 1800+ rushing and 69 touchdowns. Now that’s explosive and I haven’t seen that since the greatest show on turf. Hey I’m not saying the Ravens aren’t doing it big but man the chiefs were on a totally different level imo.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.

With that being said, the big question is, "Is this sustainable?". Come on, we've seen this story time and time again. Vick, RGIII, Kaepernick, Cam. Those guys came out running the read option and were difficult to stop. Eventually, their bodies aren't designed to take on this many hits and will need to develop their passing game in the pocket. We shall wait and see how Lamar progresses.
Now I’m wondering are you one of my buddies on Facebook, because he asked this same question. And my response was 4950 yards passing, 1800+ rushing and 69 touchdowns. Now that’s explosive and I haven’t seen that since the greatest show on turf. Hey I’m not saying the Ravens aren’t doing it big but man the chiefs were on a totally different level imo.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I hope Watson can become a lot more than Josh Allen.

But I see what you are saying. Allen would be a better fit for O'Brien.

But Watson can be what Allen can never be. IMO he has a higher ceiling.

I'd rather my coach be able to maximize the talent he has, than maximize his system based on the talent he gets.

That's fine, that you prefer the latter. & that we have the latter. & now that OB is 100% in charge I wish we had waited & got Darnold or Allen.

But we didn't & we need OB to be the former, at least for a little while as Watson transitions to the NFL.

Let me ask you this. Will we go further in the playoffs this year with OB calling the game for a pure pocket passer, or a mobile QB?

How far do you want to go in the playoffs?
100% agree with the statement I bolded above. This is what makes coaches truly great IMO. Bum Phillips once said Shula was such a great coach he could take his guys and beat your guys and he could take your guys and beat his guys. I would not put OB in that category. I’d really love to see what OB could do if he’d set his ego aside and hire the best possible coaches, especially OC and OL coach. I think if he just focused on being a HC he‘d take a big step forward.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
100% agree with the statement I bolded above. This is what makes coaches truly great IMO. Bum Phillips once said Shula was such a great coach he could take his guys and beat your guys and he could take your guys and beat his guys. I would not put OB in that category. I’d really love to see what OB could do if he’d set his ego aside and hire the best possible coaches, especially OC and OL coach. I think if he just focused on being a HC he‘d take a big step forward.
He has changed his offense to better fit Watson's skillset. What more do you want when it comes to setting his ego aside.

We can only hope Watson can become as good as Allen is today. Much less what Allen will be in the future. A little known fact around here is that Allen is one of the most talented skillset wise QB's in the NFL and he's just starting to scratch the surface of his abilities. Just like Watson he's going to get much better with experience. But I would argue Allen has a higher ceiling. He's got a much better arm, has already figured out how to step up in the pocket and runs (Which he's very good at doing) as a last resort.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
He has changed his offense to better fit Watson's skillset. What more do you want when it comes to setting his ego aside.

We can only hope Watson can become as good as Allen is today. Much less what Allen will be in the future. A little known fact around here is that Allen is one of the most talented skillset wise QB's in the NFL and he's just starting to scratch the surface of his abilities. Just like Watson he's going to get much better with experience. But I would argue Allen has a higher ceiling. He's got a much better arm, has already figured out how to step up in the pocket and runs (Which he's very good at doing) as a last resort.
JOsh who was a 2-1 TD/INT ration, 2500 yards and a QBR sub 50, versus DW4 who has 2900 yards, 3-1 ratio and a QBR over 70? Also, the eye test says DW4 all day. Inconsistentcy is a push between them. I think Josh is ok today and gets better but not seeing the better with eyes or stats. Do you just try to poke some of us or really believe this? PS, I am in the Commons so maybe we need a beer one day and hash out the truth versus the hyperbole.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
JOsh who was a 2-1 TD/INT ration, 2500 yards and a QBR sub 50, versus DW4 who has 2900 yards, 3-1 ratio and a QBR over 70? Also, the eye test says DW4 all day. Inconsistentcy is a push between them. I think Josh is ok today and gets better but not seeing the better with eyes or stats. Do you just try to poke some of us or really believe this? PS, I am in the Commons so maybe we need a beer one day and hash out the truth versus the hyperbole.
I would love to have a beer with you. Let me know when and I will come out there to see you. I used to live in Indian Shores and love it out there. We should meet at the Mexican Food place by the Golf Course.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
He has changed his offense to better fit Watson's skillset. What more do you want when it comes to setting his ego aside.

We can only hope Watson can become as good as Allen is today. Much less what Allen will be in the future. A little known fact around here is that Allen is one of the most talented skillset wise QB's in the NFL and he's just starting to scratch the surface of his abilities. Just like Watson he's going to get much better with experience. But I would argue Allen has a higher ceiling. He's got a much better arm, has already figured out how to step up in the pocket and runs (Which he's very good at doing) as a last resort.
I do not like our “system” on offense. Personally, I don’t think OB is a great OC. I think he’s average. I’ve seen great games and I’ve seen absolute crap from our offense, which averages out to mediocrity. I hate the fact that I can sit there and call run or pass with about 90-95% accuracy based on formation alone. As Stoerner has said repeatedly, there is very little that we do pre snap to help the QB. The only Pre snap motion I see consistently is the jet sweep. If OB was a great OC why are we so bad in the first quarter? I acknowledge pre snap penalties have been an issue in some games. However, if his system was so good shouldn’t we have gotten off to a good start in some of the games?

I do think OB has the potential to be a really good HC, he gets guys to play hard and that’s hugely important. I think his ego shows up in that he keeps yes men around too long (Develin), and he’s effectively wearing three hats in the organization: HC, OC and GM. To me that’s a sign that’s he micromanaging because he doesn’t think anyone can do a better job than he can. I heard a great quote at a seminar a while back, “if you’re the smartest guy in the room, you should find another room”. I want my HC to be a really smart guy, and I want him to hire the best possible coaching staff he can get and let them do their jobs. I want them to look at their talent and design a system that will maximize that talent. I want to see clever/creative play design where we scheme guys open vs having to rely on our guys just making great plays

Im not sure why you’re bringing up Allen based on my post. I don’t watch Buffalo so I have no opinion of him. I’m not a DW only fan. I see his talent and I see his warts, just like I do with OB. I want both of them to be successful because I’m a Texans fan first and foremost

By the way, I like you and I respect your opinion however the Jesus in cleats is getting really old. Just my opinion
 

banned1976

American
Whelp, after watching the Ravens after our loss to them, I have decided it was no shame falling victim to them.
We indeed ran into a buzz saw.
Can anyone say they have seen a better running QB in the NFL - ever?
I’ve seen better scramblers at QB but not shear rusher by design.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Whelp, after watching the Ravens after our loss to them, I have decided it was no shame falling victim to them.
We indeed ran into a buzz saw.
Can anyone say they have seen a better running QB in the NFL - ever?
San Francisco making them work.
 


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