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Takeaways from the Ravens game.

markn

All Pro
I got something positive that I think we can all agree on. If OB never challenges another PI call, I won’t fault him. I know I would have been outraged if he hadn’t challenged that call. That changed today.
No doubt it changes the beginning of the game, but even the homerest among us has to admit the most talented team won that game. We were outmatched in every phase.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Umm the Ravens aren't that much talented than us. They were better coached and well prepared.

That same talent got the brakes beat off them by the Chiefs.

We handle the Chiefs pretty darn easy.

That's the way it is in Football.

Just like the Browns dominating this same Ravens team.

Does that mean the Browns had the better talent?
 

H_Town_Gaucho

Waterboy
My take away is that the Texans are right on schedule this season, I think I said they would win 8-10 games and fizzle again this year. Texans are just an average team. If they lose to the Colts on Thursday it won't surprise me at all.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
We lost because we suck with OB as HC. That's my takeaway until the day he leaves.

I cant really blame this one on OB …. Its on the players who just didn't do anything right all day.

OB's gameplan wasn't the problem this time. It was Watson , it was the OL , it was the defense …. they all got their asses handed to them.


The other takeaway from this game - Baltimore is the best team in the AFC.
They sank their teeth into a top 2 seed with that mudhole stomping.

So odds are if the Texans do make the playoffs their road to the superbowl will be thru at least two of the three - Jackson , Brady , Mahomes and could potentially play all three of them if they are the wildcard.


Next week's game against the Dolts is for the Texans playoff lives. Lose that game , not only do you all but lose the division but you fell behind at least 1 team and potentially behind 4 teams for the final wildcard spot.

Thursday is win or go home for the Texans.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
My takeaway is that O'Brien did not plan according to the same strengths and weaknesses of either team that regular fans are aware of.

I've said it before: O'Brien is calling plays for the team he wishes he had, not the team he actually has.

Even Kubiak -- despite his reputation for being stubborn -- put away his Shanahan offense for Payton Manning. He got a ring out of that decision.

O'Brien won't even call short passes against a dominant pass rush.

This game wasn't Watson vs Jackson. It was O'Brien vs Harbaugh, and that duel turned out exactly as we should have expected.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
What I saw was a young QB who Harbaugh's DC forced Waston to stay in the pocket and Watson was terrible from the pocket. Those Fumble and Int were ridiculious and you're never going to beat a team like the Ravens with those kinds of mistakes. He ran into 3 sacks in the 1st half alone including the fumble. Watson has below avg accuracy from the pocket.

I've said this before and so far nothing has happened to change my mind. BOB needed to shorten the game by sticking with the run game and take a few shots down the field today like he did last yr with Watson if other teams are going to make Watson stay in the pocket.
Tbh, I think if Watson was a clear OB choice you probably wouldn’t try so hard to deflect the blame away from OB and put it on the QB.

Watson clearly has talent. Whatever anyone thinks of his deficiencies he’s clearly one of the better qbs in the league. And he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

So let’s say you’re right. Watson doesn’t throw well from the pocket. (I disagree but in this argument let’s say you’re 100% correct). You can clearly see this right?

Well then why do we have a coach that has worked with him more closely than anyone on the planet for the past few years who cannot?

Why not....I don’t know....use his mobility and move the pocket? Why not call plays to quickly get the ball out of his hands by using screens?
If he’s indeed struggling with something why on earth would you keep calling the same crap plays he’s struggling with over and over again?

Again, I don’t agree with any of the stuff about Watson not being able to throw from the pocket. Early in the game Hopkins was feasting with Deshaun in the pocket throwing quick passes to him.

You cannot convince me that the difference between the Ravens demolishing the Texans is because Jackson is THAT much better of a QB.

Looks like one team utilized the talent they have better than the other.

But...again, let’s say this is on Watson. And according to some they’re not sure he ever gets it....

Now what? Do we trade him? Not extend him? Tank for this amazing awesome QB that doesn’t miss reads, and is mobile enough to keep plays alive? If DW isn’t good enough exactly how long is it going to take us to find this super QB that can come in and do all the things he can’t?

If OB cannot win with Watson because of his supposed shortcomings then the easier and more logical fix is to find someone who can because even if we could find better, how much better are we talking? And is this guy not going to have flaws that need to be worked around?

Whatever deficiencies this team has from a personnel standpoint, they shouldn’t be getting beat down after a bye week against a team with comparable talent.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Tbh, I think if Watson was a clear OB choice you probably wouldn’t try so hard to deflect the blame away from OB and put it on the QB.

Watson clearly has talent. Whatever anyone thinks of his deficiencies he’s clearly one of the better qbs in the league. And he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

So let’s say you’re right. Watson doesn’t throw well from the pocket. (I disagree but in this argument let’s say you’re 100% correct). You can clearly see this right?

Well then why do we have a coach that has worked with him more closely than anyone on the planet for the past few years who cannot?

Why not....I don’t know....use his mobility and move the pocket? Why not call plays to quickly get the ball out of his hands by using screens?
If he’s indeed struggling with something why on earth would you keep calling the same crap plays he’s struggling with over and over again?

Again, I don’t agree with any of the stuff about Watson not being able to throw from the pocket. Early in the game Hopkins was feasting with Deshaun in the pocket throwing quick passes to him.

You cannot convince me that the difference between the Ravens demolishing the Texans is because Jackson is THAT much better of a QB.

Looks like one team utilized the talent they have better than the other.

But...again, let’s say this is on Watson. And according to some they’re not sure he ever gets it....

Now what? Do we trade him? Not extend him? Tank for this amazing awesome QB that doesn’t miss reads, and is mobile enough to keep plays alive? If DW isn’t good enough exactly how long is it going to take us to find this super QB that can come in and do all the things he can’t?

If OB cannot win with Watson because of his supposed shortcomings then the easier and more logical fix is to find someone who can because even if we could find better, how much better are we talking? And is this guy not going to have flaws that need to be worked around?

Whatever deficiencies this team has from a personnel standpoint, they shouldn’t be getting beat down after a bye week against a team with comparable talent.
Great post!
 

Texansphan

All Pro
No, but a pattern of a poorly prepared team... does expose bad coaching....

I agree, one bad game against a good team isnt a big deal... when its the constant theme... the excuses need to stop.
Precisely - it does come down to coaching, not necessarily the team.
I think we have enough good pieces in place, but I see inconsistency in the coaching.
And while Belichek and Brady are a combination, all AFC teams will find it difficult to get to the SB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Tbh, I think if Watson was a clear OB choice you probably wouldn’t try so hard to deflect the blame away from OB and put it on the QB.

Watson clearly has talent. Whatever anyone thinks of his deficiencies he’s clearly one of the better qbs in the league. And he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

So let’s say you’re right. Watson doesn’t throw well from the pocket. (I disagree but in this argument let’s say you’re 100% correct). You can clearly see this right?

Well then why do we have a coach that has worked with him more closely than anyone on the planet for the past few years who cannot?

Why not....I don’t know....use his mobility and move the pocket? Why not call plays to quickly get the ball out of his hands by using screens?
If he’s indeed struggling with something why on earth would you keep calling the same crap plays he’s struggling with over and over again?

Again, I don’t agree with any of the stuff about Watson not being able to throw from the pocket. Early in the game Hopkins was feasting with Deshaun in the pocket throwing quick passes to him.

You cannot convince me that the difference between the Ravens demolishing the Texans is because Jackson is THAT much better of a QB.

Looks like one team utilized the talent they have better than the other.

But...again, let’s say this is on Watson. And according to some they’re not sure he ever gets it....

Now what? Do we trade him? Not extend him? Tank for this amazing awesome QB that doesn’t miss reads, and is mobile enough to keep plays alive? If DW isn’t good enough exactly how long is it going to take us to find this super QB that can come in and do all the things he can’t?

If OB cannot win with Watson because of his supposed shortcomings then the easier and more logical fix is to find someone who can because even if we could find better, how much better are we talking? And is this guy not going to have flaws that need to be worked around?

Whatever deficiencies this team has from a personnel standpoint, they shouldn’t be getting beat down after a bye week against a team with comparable talent.

In general we're in agreement about OB.


But this one …. aint really on OB.

Like you said , DHop was feasting early on so what OB was calling was working.

The defense holds on short fields after a turnover and a turnover on downs.


Then they go 4 plays and punt twice and Baltimore puts 14 points on the board.

Now they know you are passing and they put the heat on early and often and that was the ballgame. Texans OL had no answer for the pressure & Watson looked more like HWWNBM with happy feet than DW4.

I really cant blame OB for this loss …. and you know I'd like nothing better than piling on as much blame as possible to get him gone …. bit not this one.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
How is this not on OB when we all know his teams have a strong tendency of coming out lethargic and not prepared to play football.

How is not on Obrien when they had more than enough time to prepare for a defense that isn't that good.

How is this not on Obrien when the offense we seen for four straight weeks wasn't utilized on yesterday.

How is this not on Obrien, when there was no adjustment made at halftime. You seen your young QB struggling and the offensive line getting abused. So why not adjust accordingly.

Why on God's green earth would you continue to trout a reciever out there who kept running the wrong routes.


Man this is on the entire team. From the HC to the freaking water boy.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
"Aint really on OB" is somehow admonishing him of his part, and he shared a sizeable load in this debacle as the Head Coach. Its one thing to have the refs and the away crowd take you out of the game, but it was something entirely different to watch a team have 2 weeks to prepare and not even employ some of the tactics that had been successful vs this team and defense in particular. I was trying to pump myself up that RACs defense on sheer schematic assignment alone might be enough to hold them to a few stops since everyone felt like this game was going to be a "shootout" and they seemed up to the task early, but the offense lost confidence after the blown PI call and didnt seem to regain their composure, and it was just a matter of time before Jackson picked you apart.

HOU defense is so bereft of talent its a shame. How a GM can go so gung ho on the offensive side, intentionally hurt the defense and then have a game like this where he completely was outclassed and his players embarrassed - he should not get a pass. That spin is absurd, and does not grasp the entirety of the situation. Watson also shares the blame. He was bad too. I wont bash him too hard though because the offensive line chose the most important game of the year to act like some bitches. They were punked and bullied all day and they never fought back, they just slumped over meekly as their QB was hit time and time again. So yea, Watson held the ball too long on O'Brien's favorite "everyone go vertical" pass plays since nobody was open and led to some coverage sacks, he should have thrown the ball away more, but I cant blame him for trying to make plays. His fumbling is inexcusable and he MUST get that aspect of his game cleaned up. It still boils down to a systemic breakdown and why the team can actually look like two different teams depending on the skill of the opposing coach. Good coaches know what O'Brien "is good at" and they know how to take it away, and O'Brien is still too egomaniacal to adapt and try something different. Square peg. Round hole. Beat it till it molds to the new shape.

What you saw on offense was a team who lost confidence quickly, and a coach who didn't know what to do to help them. Its a sad case of an egotistical coach force feeding his "system" on the players instead of just allowing them to do what they are good at. Look at how Harbaugh has completely gutted and reinvented his entire offense from a pocket passing philosophy to introducing something new and completely different to take advantage of what he has. Its what good coaches do, he has given his OC Greg Roman full freedom to tinker, and figure out what works best, and they are just out there having fun and learning together at the same time.

This offense is like sitting in a Dentists office waiting for your root canal. O'Brien is a good enough coach to get you beat in the playoffs, and that is the extent of his ability.

If I was Cal McNair and getting rid of this tyrant is not in the books, then I would make it a prerequisite that if he wants to continue to be the HC of the team then he needs to find a competent OC that is approved by the owners, if not FORCED upon him by the owners. Hopefully the emotional grit of this man takes over (which Im pretty sure it would, look how often he loses his cool) he would probably QUIT and the team would be all the better for it. Sure there would be a transition year where you might suck balls, BUT if you find the right coach, you have enough offensive talent that you might find yourself in the Super Bowl before everybody figured out what you were doing (McVay, Pederson).
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
In general we're in agreement about OB.


But this one …. aint really on OB.

Like you said , DHop was feasting early on so what OB was calling was working.

The defense holds on short fields after a turnover and a turnover on downs.


Then they go 4 plays and punt twice and Baltimore puts 14 points on the board.

Now they know you are passing and they put the heat on early and often and that was the ballgame. Texans OL had no answer for the pressure & Watson looked more like HWWNBM with happy feet than DW4.

I really cant blame OB for this loss …. and you know I'd like nothing better than piling on as much blame as possible to get him gone …. bit not this one.
I dont think Watson had a good game.

I dont think he played so poorly that they should have gotten their ass kicked like that.

Watson has made tons of off schedule plays to make things happen when the initial play call didn't work. Time for the coach to return the favor when his qb is struggling.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I dont think Watson had a good game.

I dont think he played so poorly that they should have gotten their ass kicked like that.

Watson has made tons of off schedule plays to make things happen when the initial play call didn't work. Time for the coach to return the favor when his qb is struggling.

Not only that but his offensive line was struggling. Having the entire starting line back actually made us worse.

We didn't have a running game either.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
I was building furniture in my living room with the game on...and STILL managed to cuss more at the screen than the instructions I was using.

Watson was his own worst enemy. His issue with holding the ball away from his body was the proximate cause of the fumble on the opening drive. He had tons of time on multiple sacks, but either didn't switch to "run mode" or simply refused to get rid of it. Once it started going south, he started throwing it into the dirt at the feet of receivers. He looked so shell-shocked out there, it reminded me of Carr.

OB's choice of calls were suspect at best. I remember vividly an early 3rd and short where we ran a slow-developing up the gut run...against the Ravens? WTF? We either weren't getting designed quick routes, or we have the worst WRs at gaining separation in the league. Sure, the Ravens had some clever schemes at times, but we couldn't handle a garden-variety rush all day either.

Our no-name defense held up as long as they could, but was never going to keep the Ravens out of the endzone for very long. No regular push and only Jackson's penchant for overthrows was keeping us afloat early. There were a few bright spots from players I wasn't expecting (Cole coverage play as an example), but no Watt and no Clowney makes for a very long day of getting cut to pieces. I expect to be sliced and diced again in two weeks. If Brady doesn't throw for 350+ I'll be shocked.

Did Hopkins get screwed on the PI call? Sure, 100%. It just felt like the Texans were never the same after that.
Good teams find a way to re-group and get back on track the next week. Great teams find a way to do it in the same game.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Tbh, I think if Watson was a clear OB choice you probably wouldn’t try so hard to deflect the blame away from OB and put it on the QB.

Watson clearly has talent. Whatever anyone thinks of his deficiencies he’s clearly one of the better qbs in the league. And he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

So let’s say you’re right. Watson doesn’t throw well from the pocket. (I disagree but in this argument let’s say you’re 100% correct). You can clearly see this right?

Well then why do we have a coach that has worked with him more closely than anyone on the planet for the past few years who cannot?

Why not....I don’t know....use his mobility and move the pocket? Why not call plays to quickly get the ball out of his hands by using screens?
If he’s indeed struggling with something why on earth would you keep calling the same crap plays he’s struggling with over and over again?

Again, I don’t agree with any of the stuff about Watson not being able to throw from the pocket. Early in the game Hopkins was feasting with Deshaun in the pocket throwing quick passes to him.

You cannot convince me that the difference between the Ravens demolishing the Texans is because Jackson is THAT much better of a QB.

Looks like one team utilized the talent they have better than the other.

But...again, let’s say this is on Watson. And according to some they’re not sure he ever gets it....

Now what? Do we trade him? Not extend him? Tank for this amazing awesome QB that doesn’t miss reads, and is mobile enough to keep plays alive? If DW isn’t good enough exactly how long is it going to take us to find this super QB that can come in and do all the things he can’t?

If OB cannot win with Watson because of his supposed shortcomings then the easier and more logical fix is to find someone who can because even if we could find better, how much better are we talking? And is this guy not going to have flaws that need to be worked around?

Whatever deficiencies this team has from a personnel standpoint, they shouldn’t be getting beat down after a bye week against a team with comparable talent.
The deflection would go to ownership. I know steels view on the subject.
 

jshabang

Quality Backup!
the Ravens are the better team top to bottom...... there defense is light years better ........ we had a chance to once again prove ourselves to be a real contender coming off a bye week with 2 weeks to prepare and we once again failed MISERABLY in front of everybody as we always seem to do........ I can take a loss...... the Ravens are good...... but to get blown off the field and not compete AT ALL FROM THE FIRST SNAP OF THE BALL IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNACCEPTABLE AND JUST A BIT RIDICULOUS AT THIS POINT..... WTF WAS THIS COACHING STAFF DOING OVER THE BYE TO HAVE THIS TEAM THIS UNPREPARED......... this coaching staff needs to get there head out there ass or be banished from Kirby immediately!!!!!!!

Not even close on that side of the ball and we are probably more talented them them on offense yet we still look like crap on the offensive side........ that’s the side we should be able to hang our hat on...... but no we can’t..... Deshaun ain’t picked up a Hot read and burned a defense blitzing him YET???!!! Why is this!!???? And what do you think other defensive coordinators are gonna do to Deshaun until he actually shows he can beat it!!????? All this leads me Back to O Brien ........ he has a Ferrari and he’s burning up the clutch cuz he has no clue how to drive it!!!! He’s the biggest idiot in the league and each coach proves it to us weekly .........

And I’m not gonna even begin to talk about Deshaun and this hero mentality......... he keeps this up and he won’t last long enough for us to get the greatness out of him because he will have to retire or get injured in the process...... DESHAUN FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD MAN TAKE WHAT THE DEFENSE GIVES YOU!!!!! You don’t have to make a Superman play every single down boss!!!!!! Deshaun is starting to look like feast of famine........ either a super play or nothing with him..... he gotta stop this man
 
My takeaway is that O'Brien did not plan according to the same strengths and weaknesses of either team that regular fans are aware of.

I've said it before: O'Brien is calling plays for the team he wishes he had, not the team he actually has.

Even Kubiak -- despite his reputation for being stubborn -- put away his Shanahan offense for Payton Manning. He got a ring out of that decision.

O'Brien won't even call short passes against a dominant pass rush.

This game wasn't Watson vs Jackson. It was O'Brien vs Harbaugh, and that duel turned out exactly as we should have expected.
I think the play calling was less a problem and being outplayed and over matched was more the issue. Either way that still falls on the head coach. The team suffered some early adversity due to bad no call penalties and they crashed down like a house of cards.
 

markn

All Pro
I cannot wait until the All 22 film comes out. I am re-watching the game now in the condensed version and to my surprise, we ran stupid plays and gave no help to Watson. I can't wait to screen shot this later. OB has no feel for calling a game. What a joke.
I'll be fascinated to read your thoughts. My memory is hazy and I haven't rewatched anything yet, but I recall the first two drives utilizing Hop on short, quick passing plays as well as requisite running plays and a couple of designed QB runs. i.e. a plan that is designed to beat blitzes and keep Watson upright.

The first drive ended with the horrible sack/fumble after an otherwise promising start. The second drive should have resulted in a TD but for horrible officiating.

After that decent start however, we appeared to resort to slow developing plays exposing Watson to the Ravens' blitz packages. Watson looked like a deer caught in the headlights, our offense was shut-down and the game quickly got out of hand.

Why did we move away from our initial plan, and at who's behest? Did OB change his strategy and call these disastrous plays, or was it down to Watson's choices besed on coverages and how the plays unfolded?
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Btw my evaluation of this team at this point is emotionless. Haven't posted here in a few weeks because I haven't sat and watched any games because I didnt really care to. Only reason i watched this last one was because i was at work and they had it on the screens.

I do not feel slightly embarrassed about the loss because my feelings just arent in it.

Still want the hometown to do well, but I honestly believe OB either has to drastically improve as a HC or needs to be fired. At this point I dont care which one happens.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I cannot wait until the All 22 film comes out. I am re-watching the game now in the condensed version and to my surprise, we ran stupid plays and gave no help to Watson. I can't wait to screen shot this later. OB has no feel for calling a game. What a joke.
funny thing is you DONT NEED the coaches film to disprove the short passing controversy with O'Brien. Its really as simple as watching a Josh McDaniels NE offense (which supposedly OBrien is running) and how McDaniels attacks defenses NOT with long winded route combos, but with a horizontal approach, he typically has 3 short/intermediate passing routes with maybe one vertical. O'Brien is the opposite, he MIGHT give his QB one outlet, but usually these guys are asked to beat their man one on one, and 'get open' downfield. The man is so stupid he cant even figure out the bunch/stack formation and how to properly utilize legal rubs to get his guys open JUST COPY WHAT OTHER TEAMS DO - ITS OK, YOU WONT GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT. I could live with a few "offensive PI" calls here and there if he were doing things with intent to get guys open.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
Two weeks of prep, and that's the **** show we got for our trouble? Totally inexcusable.

BOB created an incoherent game plan with two weeks to prep. What the hell were they even trying to get done? And when it wasn't working, it was like beating their head into the same wall.

The whole team looked flat, unmotivated, and unprepared.

Then our vaunted QB looked like a rookie UDFA backup making an emergency start on short notice. He looked completely lost, tried to do way too much, and for the first time in his College or NFL career, the moment seemed to totally overwhelm him.

Completely unforgivable. These are NOT good signs! #4 in his 3rd year, and BOB is 6 years in and still can't get the job done when it counts.

It's absolutely critical that they win and win with a purpose against the Colts AND the Pats. That could potentially get them back on track but if they lose and especially if they look as flat and lost as they did Sunday, it's over.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
The defense is undermanned. I think we all know that. I blame O'Brien for some of that, but injuries are just chance, for the most part. I think RAC is making a somewhat edible chicken salad out of chickensh!t. It is what it is. We all expected Lamar Jackson to get his, and he did.

The offense, however, is adequately manned. To only turn in 7 points is unacceptable. They've somehow turned Deandre Hopkins into a short yardage possession receiver. They seldom use Duke Johnson, who is widely regarded as one of the better receiving backs in football. Coutee has been a non-factor, for the most part. Akins has shown himself to be at least a capable receiver and gets probably one or two looks a game. Stills came over and immediately showed why he has always been such a deep threat, but has been erratically utilized, at best. I'd say under-utilized.

I'm a charter member of the O'Brien Haters Club. You can check the early pages of the Fire His Ass thread. So I have my doubts as to what sort of offense he's running here, but here's the thing - when Watson hits the back foot of his drop, that ball needs to come out. He consistently fails at this one simple aspect of being a QB. A well oiled offense does that. So is Watson faced with no open receivers on the back step of his drop THAT OFTEN? Almost every single play? Or is he trying to play hero ball? I don't have access to the All-22, so I'm all ears to anyone who breaks it down, but I know I saw Watson pass up open checkdowns and short receivers yesterday in the 1st quarter. Never mind later in the game, when circumstances change. Early in the game, before it's time to abandon your shitty game plan, he passed over open receivers and wasted plays. I know the #JesusInCleats crowd doesn't want to talk about that, but the guy who touches the ball every play and decides who else gets to touch the ball has to learn to be a facilitator.

I'm a Watson fan and I've defended his mistakes in other threads on this board. I think he's a young QB that has some development to show, but I also think he will. He shows all the signs of being an absolutely special QB - like, Brady/Manning/Brees special. But he's not there yet, and the biggest reason is his penchant for holding on to the ball too damn long. And honestly, he and every other person on the face of the planet (even soccer fans) knows you can't hold on to the ball that long and expect your blockers to hold up. So he's making a conscious decision to take risks. There are times to take risks, and those times come AFTER you've established your normal.

Now, I ask again, is he facing a situation where no one is open that quickly? Because at this point, I just want to know how much of this is on the offensive "system" and how much is Watson striving for gold on every other play? Sustain drives. That's what I want to see. Sustain drives and then pop Stills or Fuller loose every once in a while.
 

Texan Asylum

Hall of Fame
The defense is undermanned. I think we all know that. I blame O'Brien for some of that, but injuries are just chance, for the most part. I think RAC is making a somewhat edible chicken salad out of chickensh!t. It is what it is. We all expected Lamar Jackson to get his, and he did.

The offense, however, is adequately manned. To only turn in 7 points is unacceptable. They've somehow turned Deandre Hopkins into a short yardage possession receiver. They seldom use Duke Johnson, who is widely regarded as one of the better receiving backs in football. Coutee has been a non-factor, for the most part. Akins has shown himself to be at least a capable receiver and gets probably one or two looks a game. Stills came over and immediately showed why he has always been such a deep threat, but has been erratically utilized, at best. I'd say under-utilized.

I'm a charter member of the O'Brien Haters Club. You can check the early pages of the Fire His Ass thread. So I have my doubts as to what sort of offense he's running here, but here's the thing - when Watson hits the back foot of his drop, that ball needs to come out. He consistently fails at this one simple aspect of being a QB. A well oiled offense does that. So is Watson faced with no open receivers on the back step of his drop THAT OFTEN? Almost every single play? Or is he trying to play hero ball? I don't have access to the All-22, so I'm all ears to anyone who breaks it down, but I know I saw Watson pass up open checkdowns and short receivers yesterday in the 1st quarter. Never mind later in the game, when circumstances change. Early in the game, before it's time to abandon your shitty game plan, he passed over open receivers and wasted plays. I know the #JesusInCleats crowd doesn't want to talk about that, but the guy who touches the ball every play and decides who else gets to touch the ball has to learn to be a facilitator.

I'm a Watson fan and I've defended his mistakes in other threads on this board. I think he's a young QB that has some development to show, but I also think he will. He shows all the signs of being an absolutely special QB - like, Brady/Manning/Brees special. But he's not there yet, and the biggest reason is his penchant for holding on to the ball too damn long. And honestly, he and every other person on the face of the planet (even soccer fans) knows you can't hold on to the ball that long and expect your blockers to hold up. So he's making a conscious decision to take risks. There are times to take risks, and those times come AFTER you've established your normal.

Now, I ask again, is he facing a situation where no one is open that quickly? Because at this point, I just want to know how much of this is on the offensive "system" and how much is Watson striving for gold on every other play? Sustain drives. That's what I want to see. Sustain drives and then pop Stills or Fuller loose every once in a while.
Very well said...
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
seems like racks and his defense staff are not the answer ...DUe to not having clowney or watt and the injuries to our dbs ...our defense cant hold nobody and cant carry the team I hope we dont give up 30+ to indy and the pats but its likely

these next to games well tell our story alot ....so
 

markn

All Pro
The defense is undermanned. I think we all know that. I blame O'Brien for some of that, but injuries are just chance, for the most part. I think RAC is making a somewhat edible chicken salad out of chickensh!t. It is what it is. We all expected Lamar Jackson to get his, and he did.

The offense, however, is adequately manned. To only turn in 7 points is unacceptable. They've somehow turned Deandre Hopkins into a short yardage possession receiver. They seldom use Duke Johnson, who is widely regarded as one of the better receiving backs in football. Coutee has been a non-factor, for the most part. Akins has shown himself to be at least a capable receiver and gets probably one or two looks a game. Stills came over and immediately showed why he has always been such a deep threat, but has been erratically utilized, at best. I'd say under-utilized.

I'm a charter member of the O'Brien Haters Club. You can check the early pages of the Fire His Ass thread. So I have my doubts as to what sort of offense he's running here, but here's the thing - when Watson hits the back foot of his drop, that ball needs to come out. He consistently fails at this one simple aspect of being a QB. A well oiled offense does that. So is Watson faced with no open receivers on the back step of his drop THAT OFTEN? Almost every single play? Or is he trying to play hero ball? I don't have access to the All-22, so I'm all ears to anyone who breaks it down, but I know I saw Watson pass up open checkdowns and short receivers yesterday in the 1st quarter. Never mind later in the game, when circumstances change. Early in the game, before it's time to abandon your shitty game plan, he passed over open receivers and wasted plays. I know the #JesusInCleats crowd doesn't want to talk about that, but the guy who touches the ball every play and decides who else gets to touch the ball has to learn to be a facilitator.

I'm a Watson fan and I've defended his mistakes in other threads on this board. I think he's a young QB that has some development to show, but I also think he will. He shows all the signs of being an absolutely special QB - like, Brady/Manning/Brees special. But he's not there yet, and the biggest reason is his penchant for holding on to the ball too damn long. And honestly, he and every other person on the face of the planet (even soccer fans) knows you can't hold on to the ball that long and expect your blockers to hold up. So he's making a conscious decision to take risks. There are times to take risks, and those times come AFTER you've established your normal.

Now, I ask again, is he facing a situation where no one is open that quickly? Because at this point, I just want to know how much of this is on the offensive "system" and how much is Watson striving for gold on every other play? Sustain drives. That's what I want to see. Sustain drives and then pop Stills or Fuller loose every once in a while.
Thanks for eloquently explaining what I was trying to say.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
This defense just isn’t physical enough. At least I don’t see it. Tackling is non existent.

Still don’t know how to cover TEs.

Hey OB, you traded for Duke Johnson because he is a pass catching threat out of the backfield. You think you might want to get him involved in the offense? Just sayin.

OB may have been right on Coutee. He’s not very good.

This offense has too much talent on it to look that bad and that is COACHING. Bad coaching.

Watson was bad. I kept telling myself all week that I hoped he didn’t buy into the hype and try to win this one in his own. He did just that, but he didn’t have much help from the sidelines.

Heavy blitzing from the ravens, and no draws or screens or “hot” routes to beat it.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
"Does it mean something that the Texans weren’t as shocked as the fans that they lost? Multiple players noted they weren’t shocked after the game.

Does it mean anything? I don’t know and I’m not going to tell you I know for sure. But it definitely set off some alarms to hear a player say he wasn’t surprised that they got their asses kicked like this."
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
"Does it mean something that the Texans weren’t as shocked as the fans that they lost? Multiple players noted they weren’t shocked after the game.

Does it mean anything? I don’t know and I’m not going to tell you I know for sure. But it definitely set off some alarms to hear a player say he wasn’t surprised that they got their asses kicked like this."
Only thing I can think of is maybe they didn't buy into the gameplan? At times it did seem like some were confused out there.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
"Does it mean something that the Texans weren’t as shocked as the fans that they lost? Multiple players noted they weren’t shocked after the game.

Does it mean anything? I don’t know and I’m not going to tell you I know for sure. But it definitely set off some alarms to hear a player say he wasn’t surprised that they got their asses kicked like this."

This just shows that we're mentally weak.
 

Malloy

Hall of Fame
Bad.
Looks like OB had too much faith in the OL and opted for slow developing plays with predictable results against a stout pass rush.
The tackling was totally inept - Jackson looked like superman against our inept tackling.
What happened to the nice crisp short passing game we be seeing recently?
Texans looked like they gave up after it went 21-zip.
Can't really blame them with the horrible officiating in this one - I can't recall a more lopsided display by the zebras.
Looked as though they were not prepared for this one - it just got worse as the ga..torture wore on.
Ravens looked like the better team in the first half and proved it in the second.
O'Brien's offense is just too inconsistent and changes from week to week.
I'll open it up.
I've been saying this since Watson got drafted. OB seems to 'overthink' his planning every 3 or 4 games, coming up with complex slow-evolving plays and basing the entire thing on Watson being elusive. We'll get one or two games of 'I know better' from OB, then he'll go back to short passes and letting Watson scramble for yards. This is when he'll post 4-5 TDs a game, win and look like an MVP.

Is Watson at fault? Sure! Is the OL guilty? Definately. is it the coaches responsibility to gameplan around these weaknesses and shortcoming? Yes!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I think it is good that the Texans lost, because it reminds people of how poor of a HC that OB is. SO many in here and everywhere else forget this the minute the Texans are on a two game winning streak, and fool themselves into believing that the big corner is being turned on OB's coaching. I don't see the Texans ever winning a SB with OB. I think the sooner that enough implosion happens that will get him fired the better. Unfortunately, after he gave up the future draft picks I think he'll likely be here at least for two more years. Enjoy!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tbh, I think if Watson was a clear OB choice you probably wouldn’t try so hard to deflect the blame away from OB and put it on the QB.

Watson clearly has talent. Whatever anyone thinks of his deficiencies he’s clearly one of the better qbs in the league. And he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

So let’s say you’re right. Watson doesn’t throw well from the pocket. (I disagree but in this argument let’s say you’re 100% correct). You can clearly see this right?

Well then why do we have a coach that has worked with him more closely than anyone on the planet for the past few years who cannot?

Why not....I don’t know....use his mobility and move the pocket? Why not call plays to quickly get the ball out of his hands by using screens?
If he’s indeed struggling with something why on earth would you keep calling the same crap plays he’s struggling with over and over again?

Again, I don’t agree with any of the stuff about Watson not being able to throw from the pocket. Early in the game Hopkins was feasting with Deshaun in the pocket throwing quick passes to him.

You cannot convince me that the difference between the Ravens demolishing the Texans is because Jackson is THAT much better of a QB.

Looks like one team utilized the talent they have better than the other.

But...again, let’s say this is on Watson. And according to some they’re not sure he ever gets it....

Now what? Do we trade him? Not extend him? Tank for this amazing awesome QB that doesn’t miss reads, and is mobile enough to keep plays alive? If DW isn’t good enough exactly how long is it going to take us to find this super QB that can come in and do all the things he can’t?

If OB cannot win with Watson because of his supposed shortcomings then the easier and more logical fix is to find someone who can because even if we could find better, how much better are we talking? And is this guy not going to have flaws that need to be worked around?

Whatever deficiencies this team has from a personnel standpoint, they shouldn’t be getting beat down after a bye week against a team with comparable talent.
I actually agree with alot of this. Tell me though, why is it Carl Smith was able to work with Wilson and help him turn into a great QB but he can't do it with Watson?

I certainly wouldn't be giving Watson 35-40 mil per yr, because regardless of the HC I don't think he can win a SB with him. Regardless of the HC. I would wait and see how the next couple of years go and try to find his replacement in the meantime. I'm not sure I want BOB making that call.

I've come to the realization that the Texans are going to re-up Watson and they won't win a SB in the next 5 years and after that both Watson/BOB will be moving on. BOB will be fired and never win a championship He will never get the chance to work with a QB of his choice, he wanted Mahomes and of course RS gets him Watson. I expect Watson's career to mirror that of Moon's, great games and no championships. That's if he can stay healthy.

I truly hope I'm wrong but so far it doesn't look promising and I don't think it matters who the HC is. You can't play like Watson did against playoff caliber team and expect to win.

I understand that I'm going to get roasted by the Watson only fans. But I'm really down on h after yesterday, I thought he would come up big on the big stage and he wilted understand the bright lights. This ain't college anymore and what worked in college doesn't work in the pros.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think it is good that the Texans lost, because it reminds people of how poor of a HC that OB is. SO many in here and everywhere else forget this the minute the Texans are on a two game winning streak, and fool themselves into believing that the big corner is being turned on OB's coaching. I don't see the Texans ever winning a SB with OB. I think the sooner that enough implosion happens that will get him fired the better. Unfortunately, after he gave up the future draft picks I think he'll likely be here at least for two more years. Enjoy!
Do you think Watson can stay healthy and win a SB with a new HC? I don't, his issues are much deeper and I don't think a new HC will make a difference. If Carl Smith can't teach Watson nobody can. IMHO
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Do you think Watson can stay healthy and win a SB with a new HC? I don't, his issues are much deeper and I don't think a new HC will make a difference. If Carl Smith can't teach Watson nobody can. IMHO
Yes, I absolutely do.

I don't know how long it would take though for the new HC to come in here and get his personnel in here. Without a lack of draft picks I think its going to take quite a bit longer for whoever the next guy is. I feel that OB is holding Watson's growth back, and tons of other HC's and OC's would do a lot better with him.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
O'Brien is a good enough coach to get you beat in the playoffs, and that is the extent of his ability.
Great overall post, man. I singled this line out because it is the hammer hitting the nail on the head about O'Brien.

I believe O'Brien is the modern Marty Schottenheimer. Marty was an NFL head coach for 21 seasons and only won 5 playoff games and had a .613 regular season win % (and .278 win % post season).

By comparison, O'Brien is his 6th season as HC, has one playoff win, and has a .539 regular season win % (and .250 win % post season).

The thing about both coaches is exactly what you said: could put together teams that make the playoffs, but that's about it. At least Marty made it to some conference championship games.

Always pretenders, never contenders. This is what we have and will most likely always have with O'Brien.

Texans fans can celebrate division "championships", but that's about it. Rah rah rah, the marketing department will certainly spin it.

funny thing is you DONT NEED the coaches film to disprove the short passing controversy with O'Brien. Its really as simple as watching a Josh McDaniels NE offense (which supposedly OBrien is running) and how McDaniels attacks defenses NOT with long winded route combos, but with a horizontal approach, he typically has 3 short/intermediate passing routes with maybe one vertical. O'Brien is the opposite, he MIGHT give his QB one outlet, but usually these guys are asked to beat their man one on one, and 'get open' downfield. The man is so stupid he cant even figure out the bunch/stack formation and how to properly utilize legal rubs to get his guys open JUST COPY WHAT OTHER TEAMS DO - ITS OK, YOU WONT GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT. I could live with a few "offensive PI" calls here and there if he were doing things with intent to get guys open.
Nailed it again. I watch NE operate an offensive scheme that is constantly adapting to opposing teams, constantly evolving based on roster talent. We see none of that with O'Brien's scheme. He has always had a 'smartest man in the room' complex, and I doubt his pride would allow him to learn from other OCs. Otherwise, we would see it.

Yesterday was pathetic. They do not belong in the same conversations as the NFL elite teams. They were outcoached, outplayed, were dominated on both sides of the ball, and the sad part is they looked helpless, like they no longer had any fight in them. Their body language was that of losers, just waiting to just accept their fate. And that is on the coaching staff. I do not think this team believes in their coaches any more, not when they come out so unprepared and get so overwhelmed after a bye week.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
My takeaway?:

Watson ineffective yet again against an upper tier pass defense.

The top pass defenses he's faced this year according to Football Outsiders advanced defensive efficiency ratings are:

Carolina - #3
KC - #5
Indy - #6
Bal - #8

His combined numbers are 92 / 138 917 Yards 2 TDs 5 INTs

Note_ Jax is #10 and falling, but you can throw out that second game because they are a vastly inferior defense now that they got rid of Ramsey. When they had Ramsey, of course, Watson struggled against them: 16/29 155 yards the first game.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My takeaway?:

Watson ineffective yet again against an upper tier pass defense.

The top pass defenses he's faced this year according to Football Outsiders advanced defensive efficiency ratings are:

Carolina - #3
KC - #5
Indy - #6
Bal - #8

His combined numbers are 92 / 138 917 Yards 2 TDs 5 INTs

Note_ Jax is #10 and falling, but you can throw out that second game because they are a vastly inferior defense now that they got rid of Ramsey. When they had Ramsey, of course, Watson struggled against them: 16/29 155 yards the first game.
Quoted for truth
 


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