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State of the O-line

Another year of not addressing the most obvious problem for the team, which is the O line, is simply going to hurt the team once again. Even if we do somehow make the playoffs again, it's not like we'll be going anywhere in them.

It's kind of getting old and will be glaringly obvious.
 
Let's see. They had a pro bowl LT. They spent a second round pick on LG. They spent a second round pick on OC. They signed a second round FA for RG.

Despite not addressing the RT spot following Newton's injury, and we don't know their reasoning - there's only been one off season to do so, I hardly think an argument can be made that the Texans haven't made an effort to put the players in place.

I this isn't about effort this is about results.

The results have been poor before this offseason. So it appears this offseason that Ricky just flat out gave up trying to fix the OL.

BTW, why do they have the pro bowl OT? HOF'er/GOAT Alex Gibbs.
 
Savage and Weeden could have carried the torch this season and either of them could have been retained at a reasonable price, contract wise, for the 2018 season and beyond.
Or Savage and Weeden could have both failed miserably. We have no idea based upon what they've shown to date. In fact, there's at least a 50/50 chance neither is in the league by 2018 and beyond. Weeden is the textbook definition of a journeyman QB and Savage is a 27 year old project (still). To have ignored the QB position this offseason would have been both idiotic and negligent.
 
Or Savage and Weeden could have both failed miserably. We have no idea based upon what they've shown to date. In fact, there's at least a 50/50 chance neither is in the league by 2018 and beyond. Weeden is the textbook definition of a journeyman QB and Savage is a 27 year old project (still). To have ignored the QB position this offseason would have been both idiotic and negligent.


No .... In a year when so many of the scouts were openly skeptical of rating any QB as a first round value, we have got to be disciplined, (and intelligent) enough, to resist that knee jerk, and look at next year's draft prospects. We need a foundation .... since 2011 ! We would have had Ramczyk available with our 1st pick. We would have had Pocic there for our 2nd pick, and/or Feeney about 20 spots later. Next year, the offensive line prospects are as thin as this year's QB prospects ...... but the quarterback crop will be fantastic. That is all a mute point now .... after spending two 1st round picks in addition to next year's 2nd, in a knee jerk move to smooth out the knee jerk aberration that resulted from a lack of sufficient vetting. I see it as neither idiotic nor negligent to forego spending two - #1 draft picks on hope and a prayer .... especially with such a poor foundation.
 
Interesting how kneejerk everything about our offense has become since O'Brien got here
 
No .... In a year when so many of the scouts were openly skeptical of rating any QB as a first round value, we have got to be disciplined, (and intelligent) enough, to resist that knee jerk, and look at next year's draft prospects. We need a foundation .... since 2011 ! We would have had Ramczyk available with our 1st pick. We would have had Pocic there for our 2nd pick, and/or Feeney about 20 spots later. Next year, the offensive line prospects are as thin as this year's QB prospects ...... but the quarterback crop will be fantastic. That is all a mute point now .... after spending two 1st round picks in addition to next year's 2nd, in a knee jerk move to smooth out the knee jerk aberration that resulted from a lack of sufficient vetting. I see it as neither idiotic nor negligent to forego spending two - #1 draft picks on hope and a prayer .... especially with such a poor foundation.
I disagree. While the QB position appears good for 2018 at least two and perhaps three would be gone by Texans pre-Browns trade. I would rather have Watson with a year on Texans roster than any QB at 25ish. Don't forget there was concern over Ramczyk's injury. Regardless of how Savage and Watson do, I still draft Mike White W. Kentucky in 2018 third round and also Okorafor LT with the other third. James Madison's Aaron Stinne LT looks interesting in 5th. It is also evident that Texans do not agree with you on the Oline.
 
Interesting how kneejerk everything about our offense has become since O'Brien got here
Be a bit more specific. LT Brown still considered very good. X although not what anyone expected has gotten better and not missed many snaps, Manz UDFA started, Nick Martin injured but was supposed to be the starter appears healthy. What was knee jerk about signing Jeff Allen who was thought to be a good FA left tackle who played hurt and out of position? A knee jerk would not have been waiting until picking an OT in 4th.
Osweiler was not knee jerk..it was a mistake in evaluation.
 
Be a bit more specific. LT Brown still considered very good. X although not what anyone expected has gotten better and not missed many snaps, Manz UDFA started, Nick Martin injured but was supposed to be the starter appears healthy. What was knee jerk about signing Jeff Allen who was thought to be a good FA left tackle who played hurt and out of position? A knee jerk would not have been waiting until picking an OT in 4th.
Osweiler was not knee jerk..it was a mistake in evaluation.

I think osweiler was knee jerk, and to pay him we really couldn't keep Brooks.

His random benching and rotating of QBs is kneejerk as is using Watt as TE (makes him look like a genius I guess)

Trading a second to get rid of Osweiler then trading next year's first to get Watson were also knee jerk.

And I don't understand going with Clark as the starter at RT
 
Or Savage and Weeden could have both failed miserably. We have no idea based upon what they've shown to date. In fact, there's at least a 50/50 chance neither is in the league by 2018 and beyond. Weeden is the textbook definition of a journeyman QB and Savage is a 27 year old project (still). To have ignored the QB position this offseason would have been both idiotic and negligent.

It's one thing to not address the QB position and another to give up two 1st rd picks for a QB who will never be a championship level QB. IMHO, Especially when you also blew a 2nd rd pick to get rid of your last QB boo boo.

Sad thing is the 2018 draft is deep in the 2 areas the Texans need/needed most. (QB/OL) Now they wont be picking until the 3rd rd unless they give up more in a trade to move up into the 2nd rd and the premium talent will be gone by then. Most you can hope for is the find a serviceable Winston type RT.

# you must love the Watson pick.
 
Next year, the offensive line prospects are as thin as this year's QB prospects ......

Sad thing is the 2018 draft is deep in the 2 areas the Texans need/needed most. (QB/OL)

Obviously there is some disagreement as usual. Perhaps none here good enough scout to be employed by the NFL.

Every year we hear the "next year's class is gonna be awesome!" mantra. When you gonna get tired of waiting for next year?[/QUOTE]
 
I think osweiler was knee jerk, and to pay him we really couldn't keep Brooks.

His random benching and rotating of QBs is kneejerk as is using Watt as TE (makes him look like a genius I guess)

Trading a second to get rid of Osweiler then trading next year's first to get Watson were also knee jerk.

And I don't understand going with Clark as the starter at RT
They did not sign Clark to start that happened only when Newton kamikasied himself so how is that knee jerk. Going after Os who was thought by many to be a top FA was not knee jerk and neither was JJ at TE. Watt said after that team had practiced that.

If a QB is not playing well in a game and he is pulled for another...that is trying to be better. If the guy replacing gets hurt or doesn't do well that is just football. I am not a cheerleader for OBrien but I think you are incorrect.
 
It's one thing to not address the QB position and another to give up two 1st rd picks for a QB who will never be a championship level QB. IMHO, Especially when you also blew a 2nd rd pick to get rid of your last QB boo boo.

Sad thing is the 2018 draft is deep in the 2 areas the Texans need/needed most. (QB/OL) Now they wont be picking until the 3rd rd unless they give up more in a trade to move up into the 2nd rd and the premium talent will be gone by then. Most you can hope for is the find a serviceable Winston type RT.

# you must love the Watson pick.
As JB posted above folks disagree on things. Premium talent is not gone by round three and we are just going back & forth on value of Watson. We will not know until he actually plays. We might not even need a RT if Lamm or Davenport is successful.
 
...And I don't understand going with Clark as the starter at RT
This doesn't make sense. Newton was our starter, not Clark. Clark was our swing tackle, and if I remember correctly, most evaluations on this forum said he was adequate in this role. If you are projecting Clark as our starter for the 2017, we haven't even gone into training camp. Just because Clark was our starter after Newton's injury, don't pencil him in as the starter for 2017. If he can stay healthy, which remains to be seen, Giacomini may win the starting role.
 
This doesn't make sense. Newton was our starter, not Clark. Clark was our swing tackle, and if I remember correctly, most evaluations on this forum said he was adequate in this role. If you are projecting Clark as our starter for the 2017, we haven't even gone into training camp. Just because Clark was our starter after Newton's injury, don't pencil him in as the starter for 2017. If he can stay healthy, which remains to be seen, Giacomini may win the starting role.

The point is we didn't address it in the offseason.

And Giacomini is terrible.
 
Again, we're talking about results. Only 10 teams gave up less sacks. Only 7 teams rushed for more yards.

But the results have been poor??

That looks good on paper but that only means they looked pretty good between the 20's and relied on FG's. Not exactly the way to win championships. Also, those stats didn't hold water in critical situations. Just saying...
 
Obviously there is some disagreement as usual. Perhaps none here good enough scout to be employed by the NFL.

Every year we hear the "next year's class is gonna be awesome!" mantra. When you gonna get tired of waiting for next year?

When this year turns out to be great. :texflag:
 
That looks good on paper but that only means they looked pretty good between the 20's and relied on FG's. Not exactly the way to win championships. Also, those stats didn't hold water in critical situations. Just saying...

I'm not arguing we had the greatest OL, or that there"s no need to improve. Judged against their peers, our OL wasn't "poor

We started the season down 2 starters (investment), finished the season starting two guys (out of five) that were brought in as depth. Still we managed to run the ball better than most teams in the league... we protected our QB better than most teams in the league.

We get one of our starters back for 2017. We didn't spend a high draft pick on an OT in a poor OT draft. We didn't spend a lot of money in a poor OT free agent market & we're itching about the one guy we did sign & the one guy we did draft.
 
...And Giacomini is terrible.
The evaluations I've seen says, when healthy, he has been "solid". As a short term solution over last season, I'll take "solid". The fact that he's started 70 of the 78 games he's appeared in, over his 10 year career, supports this evaluation. If healthy, he has a good chance of starting and should be an improvement at the position.
 
Obviously there is some disagreement as usual. Perhaps none here good enough scout to be employed by the NFL.

Every year we hear the "next year's class is gonna be awesome!" mantra. When you gonna get tired of waiting for next year?
[/QUOTE]


Obviously I can't speak for "all here", but I can say, without reservation, that I'm not good enough. I literally played every position on the field, including punter and kicker .... every spot but lineman .... either side. I wasn't very good and quit early due to a golf scholarship offer .... but, like Roy Hobbs, "my mind was always on the game." I feel confident in saying that, with the amount of scouts that I follow, the number of games I watch and record, and the fact that I have been seriously watching pro and college football for well over half a century, I feel secure in saying .... "It's a rare day when I can't tell the difference between "one who can and one who can't" !
 


Obviously I can't speak for "all here", but I can say, without reservation, that I'm not good enough. I literally played every position on the field, including punter and kicker .... every spot but lineman .... either side. I wasn't very good and quit early due to a golf scholarship offer .... but, like Roy Hobbs, "my mind was always on the game." I feel confident in saying that, with the amount of scouts that I follow, the number of games I watch and record, and the fact that I have been seriously watching pro and college football for well over half a century, I feel secure in saying .... "It's a rare day when I can't tell the difference between "one who can and one who can't" ![/QUOTE]
tip of the hat to ya :tiphat: but others on here can say the same. It is just opinion . and part of what makes this fun and interesting.
 
Obviously there is some disagreement as usual. Perhaps none here good enough scout to be employed by the NFL.

Every year we hear the "next year's class is gonna be awesome!" mantra. When you gonna get tired of waiting for next year?
[/QUOTE]

I said the 2014 class was a great QB draft class.

I feel the 2018 draft class is comparable.

I'm not hired as a scout. But I see what I see.
 
Truth of the matter is that they didn't address it to your satisfaction, which is a totally different thing than saying they didn't address it

They haven't in the last 3 yrs.

Until they do you can expect more 9-7, 7-9.

Aint it lovely/predictable seeing history repeat itself.
 
In hindsight I don't see anything great about the 2014 QB draft class

Bortles? :D
Bridgewater? No one expected the Vikings to trade up for him... and with the tragic injury we were warned of we may never know about him
Garropolo? Probably the choice but again no one expected the Pats to trade up for him... and while he looks promising, time will tell


And then there was Logan Thomas and Tom Savage
 
We basically ran the ball a lot up the middle partly because the line couldn't protect enough to do much else. Hence the low sack numbers and high rush yardage.

Remember we had only 25 TDs all year.
 
They haven't in the last 3 yrs.

Until they do you can expect more 9-7, 7-9.

Aint it lovely/predictable seeing history repeat itself.

So if it isn't to your or KDogs satisfaction the Texans will never be successful? :ok:
 
So if it isn't to your or KDogs satisfaction the Texans will never be successful? :ok:

The only timr this org has even had a semblance of being relevant they had a top 10 OL. # Thanks HOF'er/GOAT Alex Gibbs.

Would you say the Texans will have a top 10 OL next season?

More likely I could see Watson suffering the same fate as HWNSNBM.
 
So if it isn't to your or KDogs satisfaction the Texans will never be successful? :ok:

Maybe it works out. I hope it does and I'll admit I'm wrong. But if we're just giving opinions, I think the OL will be bad, which will be a disservice to our young QBs
 
No .... In a year when so many of the scouts were openly skeptical of rating any QB as a first round value, we have got to be disciplined, (and intelligent) enough, to resist that knee jerk, and look at next year's draft prospects. We need a foundation ....
The Texans are trying to complete. They aren't going to waste a season looking to draft a QB (maybe) a year later. That's wasting a year of Watt. A year of Clowney. A year of Hopkins. A year of Bob McNair, who has to understand that nothing's promised.

And who are the scouts rating the QBs as wanting? Are they employed by the Texans? You're basing your opinion on anonymous scouts. The Texans front office, coaches, and scouts are basing their jobs on their opinions of Watson. This isn't Madden franchise mode. This is the real NFL where the here and now are precious.
 
The Texans are trying to complete. They aren't going to waste a season looking to draft a QB (maybe) a year later. That's wasting a year of Watt. A year of Clowney. A year of Hopkins. A year of Bob McNair, who has to understand that nothing's promised.

And who are the scouts rating the QBs as wanting? Are they employed by the Texans? You're basing your opinion on anonymous scouts. The Texans front office, coaches, and scouts are basing their jobs on their opinions of Watson. This isn't Madden franchise mode. This is the real NFL where the here and now are precious.

This. Where was Watson rated relative to these other guys after his first National title game against Alabama before scouts and draft nerds began to pick apart his game?
 
There were 2 QB's taken before Watson who never beat Alabama and never won a National Title Game much less played in one! One had a single season as a starter and the other played in TT's offensive scheme. So, what did their team scouts see in those QB's that they didn't see in Watson? Many football analyst stated that the Texans gave up far too much in their trade-up to get Watson. Worth mentioning, when the cameras were on the Texans War-Room, the only one standing and damn near doing the "Robot" dance when the announcement of Watson was made...take a bow RS....take a bow.
 
Well is Watson even gonna be ready to play this year? Even if he is, rookies are rarely good
 
There were 2 QB's taken before Watson who never beat Alabama and never won a National Title Game much less played in one! One had a single season as a starter and the other played in TT's offensive scheme. So, what did their team scouts see in those QB's that they didn't see in Watson? Many football analyst stated that the Texans gave up far too much in their trade-up to get Watson. Worth mentioning, when the cameras were on the Texans War-Room, the only one standing and damn near doing the "Robot" dance when the announcement of Watson was made...take a bow RS....take a bow.

O'Brien wanted him, confirmed in a recent interview. He said Watson was the consensus top QB for them
 
That looks good on paper but that only means they looked pretty good between the 20's and relied on FG's. Not exactly the way to win championships. Also, those stats didn't hold water in critical situations. Just saying...
I think the hope is that Foreman who has history of long runs + ability to get past LBs and DBs will get into end zone. Hopefully, Miller with few carries will also score from inside 20 but you have a good point. We need someone who can get ball into end zone within 10 whether that is a back, TE or WR. This was a complaint I had about Andre Johnson.
 
I think the hope is that Foreman who has history of long runs + ability to get past LBs and DBs will get into end zone. Hopefully, Miller with few carries will also score from inside 20 but you have a good point. We need someone who can get ball into end zone within 10 whether that is a back, TE or WR. This was a complaint I had about the use of Andre Johnson.

FIFY
 
I cant seem to find my pom poms on this glorious July 4th weekend.

Enjoy everybody

# Be Happy
 
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The only timr this org has even had a semblance of being relevant they had a top 10 OL. # Thanks HOF'er/GOAT Alex Gibbs.

Would you say the Texans will have a top 10 OL next season?

More likely I could see Watson suffering the same fate as HWNSNBM.

I get it now... if the Texans aren't top 10 in every phase of the game... fire everbody,

There's realistic and then...
 
I'm getting the feel that some on this board must be watching the games live or on TV with a patch over their right eye...b/c they didn't see much wrong with the right side of the line. Take the patch off and watch the performance of the entire OL.
 
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