That's pretty impressive depth
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
That's pretty impressive depth
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I would've traded up for Robinson. Gotta fix the OL and Robinson is a 10 yr starter. Maybe not at LT but still a 10 yr starter. He was a victim of character assassination/draft time over thinking.
I really liked Bolles, my #1 guy. His learning disability can be overcome. Love guys that play with a mean streak. The Broncos got themselves a steal.
Like our guy Davenport Bolles has limited major league experience. Now he's not just saddled with a learning disability as he also was a doper not too long ago so there are some vividly bright red flags with this kid. He's one of the biggest boom/bust players of this years Draft. He might be an all-pro in a couple years or he might be back in drug rehab by Christmas.
And saying Robinson is a 10 year starter is silly, no way to know this soon, and in a very weak tackle Draft there's a reason he dropped into the second round.
I will bet you Bolles doesn't end up in a drug rehab. Bolles has a toughness that Davenport can only hope to aquire. (I believe your either born with this or not.)
I do think Robinson has the ability to be a 10 yr starter. Maybe not at LT, but still a 10 yr starter. He's been one of the best at every level he's played at.
The most funny thing I notice when I look at their transactions that year:
http://www.chargers.com/team/transactions
It reads:
9/15/2010 - Placed LS David Binn on Reserve-Injured and signed LS James Dearth.
9/17/2010 - Signed LS Ryan Neill and placed LS James Dearth on Reserve-Injured.
9/28/2010 - Signed LS Ethan Albright. Placed LS Ryan Neill on Reserve-Injured
How the heck did three Long Snappers got injured in such a short period of time (2 weeks).
That's crazy. LOL.
...........
On a more serious note, what Rivers were able to do without so many of his targets was simply remarkable.
https://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/as-his-receivers-fall-philip-rivers-stands-alone/
.........
The ironic thing is that Ajirotutu was an UDFA on their PS who got a call up to the active roster in week 7. He caught two balls for 26 yards against the Pats, and three for 48 against the Titans in week 8. Nothing much, right?
Guess who the Chargers faced in week 9?
No better opponent than the Bush-league Houston defense.
Ajirotutu would catch 4 balls for 111 yards and 2 TDs (his only TDs of the year) against the Texans - and I still remember those TDs from the Kareem Jackson's thread, LMAO.
For the rest of the year, he would catch just another 4 passes for 77 yards.
...........
Another ironic thing is that the Chargers managed to beat all four teams from the AFC South, with the Texans losing by the smallest margin (6).
They would have been the division champ had they played in the AFC South and would have easily qualified for the playoffs, LMAO.
I like Davenport as a mid-round pick far better than Bolles as a first rounder especially given the risk of both players. Oh there's one more thing - our guy is 3 years younger than
Bolles. You and I can keep track of these two tackles StellB and remind each other of the progress of each.
Now I do agree Robinson would have been a solid 2nd round value and given his SEC background looks like he could have maybe been a starter at RT fairly soon but as we know he wasn't on the Texans Board so the discussion for Robinson potentially in a Texans UNI is a moot issue.
Greg Mancz deserves to start for the Texans this coming season.
Houston Texans’ center Greg Mancz had a great season in 2016 as he filled in for Nick Martin.
Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus has come out with an article that selects a secret superstar from every NFL team as we get ready to embark on another season.
C Greg Mancz
2016 snaps: 1120
Key stat: Allowed just 18 total pressures across 1,120 snaps over the regular season.
Another star of the PFF college grading, Mancz somehow went undrafted in 2015, but started last season for the Texans at center and had five perfect games of pass protection as well as grading solidly as a run-blocker over the year. His PFF grade of 84.2 was good enough to rank eighth in the NFL, higher than multiple Pro Bowl players. Mancz didn’t allow a sack or hit across two playoff games.
I agree with Pro Football Focus. Which is why I don’t know how the Texans don’t start Mancz in 2017.
I know Martin is coming back, but they would be smart to move either him or Mancz to guard. It will only make their offensive line stronger.
I trust Martin and Mancz a lot more than I do Xavier S’ua-Filo when it comes to playing left guard.
With either Tom Savage or rookie Deshaun Watson under center, Houston has to do whatever it to make sure their offensive line is as rock solid as it can be.
***
https://torotimes.com/2017/07/05/pff-greg-mancz-secret-superstar-for-houston-texans/
***
The above article originated in PFF.
Houston Texans’ center Greg Mancz had a great season in 2016 as he filled in for Nick Martin.
Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus has come out with an article that selects a secret superstar from every NFL team as we get ready to embark on another season.
C Greg Mancz
2016 snaps: 1120
Key stat: Allowed just 18 total pressures across 1,120 snaps over the regular season.
Another star of the PFF college grading, Mancz somehow went undrafted in 2015, but started last season for the Texans at center and had five perfect games of pass protection as well as grading solidly as a run-blocker over the year. His PFF grade of 84.2 was good enough to rank eighth in the NFL, higher than multiple Pro Bowl players. Mancz didn’t allow a sack or hit across two playoff games.
I agree with Pro Football Focus. Which is why I don’t know how the Texans don’t start Mancz in 2017.
I know Martin is coming back, but they would be smart to move either him or Mancz to guard. It will only make their offensive line stronger.
I trust Martin and Mancz a lot more than I do Xavier S’ua-Filo when it comes to playing left guard.
With either Tom Savage or rookie Deshaun Watson under center, Houston has to do whatever it to make sure their offensive line is as rock solid as it can be.
***
https://torotimes.com/2017/07/05/pff-greg-mancz-secret-superstar-for-houston-texans/
***
The above article originated in PFF.
Scooter
Funky
I'll keep my criticism to ... 'show me'. WHY is Mancz being so highly praised? Surely there is plenty of video evidence of how awesome he was to receive such glowing praise. Obviously that video wouldn't be a montage of double teams with XSF where the broken plays are a RG getting blamed for stunts and moves. So ... show me.
Number19
Hall of Fame
The thing is, if PFF is consistent - consistent for all 32 teams, consistent for all games, consistent from season to season, then their grading should have validity. Now, it may not jive with your assessment, but as a point of comparison between players, it's valid. And you can't just view video of Mancz, you have to view video of all the OC's, and come up with a consistent grading system, to properly grade and compare players.
Scooter
Funky
Show me the videos of our line then and how they may have reached those grades. My grades are wildly different. Surely there must be at least basic runningback and quarterback video that can corroborate their claims. We were such an anomaly that there must be game clips to be found.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Can't dispute this. Sacks get the attention, but I'm one who also looks at pressure.
An OC's primary responsibility in pass protection is to stop pressure from coming right up the middle. For Mancz to give up only 18 pressures in 1120 snaps is impressive; and you are correct, there should be tape to support this or to dispute it. Same for run blocking, but this is often in support of double teams.
Regardless, teams pay attention to the PFF ratings and the decisions the team makes to get their five best linemen on the field will be one of the primary interests of TC.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Last season Mancz proved to be a very good pass protector. But Mancz has never been considered a good run blocker, including by PFF. That was Martin's forte in college. As I've posted before, for many reasons, we don't really know yet how Martin will perform under NFL game conditions. Here is an article that put our OL last year in in additional perspective.......one that includes the performance of our RBs.:
*******************************************
Several Run Blocking Grades
By: Jeff Risdon | June 29, 2017 10:25 am ET
The Houston Texans offensive line isn’t typically noted as one of the better units in the NFL, but one study from Pro Football Focus highlights Houston’s front five as one of the better in some run blocking concepts.
PFF analyst Zoltan Buday broke down how each NFL offensive line fared in specific running play concepts. Interestingly, the Texans made the top five in two separate categories.
Houston ranked fourth in offensive line yards on inside zone runs. The Texans’ line averaged 2.18 yards before contact on those types of runs in 2016. That figure is well above the league average. Considering center Greg Mancz isn’t regarded as a good run blocker, and the team generally struggled at right guard all season, this is a bit of a surprise.
The Houston running backs weren’t very good at capitalizing on the strong inside zone run blocks either. Despite getting good initial clearance, Lamar Miller and friends still couldn’t top four yards per attempt on those runs.
There was a similar story on gap-scheme runs, which is the predominant type of run in the NFL. Houston’s offensive line ranked fifth, but it didn’t help the runners much. As noted in the study:
With Nick Martin, a dominant run blocker in college, expected to take over a starting role, the interior line could be even stronger in 2017. Miller and rookie running back D’Onta Foreman need to do a better job of converting the solid blocking into more productive runs.
*******************************************
Several Run Blocking Grades
By: Jeff Risdon | June 29, 2017 10:25 am ET
The Houston Texans offensive line isn’t typically noted as one of the better units in the NFL, but one study from Pro Football Focus highlights Houston’s front five as one of the better in some run blocking concepts.
PFF analyst Zoltan Buday broke down how each NFL offensive line fared in specific running play concepts. Interestingly, the Texans made the top five in two separate categories.
Houston ranked fourth in offensive line yards on inside zone runs. The Texans’ line averaged 2.18 yards before contact on those types of runs in 2016. That figure is well above the league average. Considering center Greg Mancz isn’t regarded as a good run blocker, and the team generally struggled at right guard all season, this is a bit of a surprise.
The Houston running backs weren’t very good at capitalizing on the strong inside zone run blocks either. Despite getting good initial clearance, Lamar Miller and friends still couldn’t top four yards per attempt on those runs.
There was a similar story on gap-scheme runs, which is the predominant type of run in the NFL. Houston’s offensive line ranked fifth, but it didn’t help the runners much. As noted in the study:
With Nick Martin, a dominant run blocker in college, expected to take over a starting role, the interior line could be even stronger in 2017. Miller and rookie running back D’Onta Foreman need to do a better job of converting the solid blocking into more productive runs.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Although Mancz isn't known for his run blocking, the team faired very well on their inside blocking with both zone and gap schemes. The problem seemed to be with the RB's.
I seem to recall that X graded out relatively poorly. Is there an evaluation on his performance?
Perhaps the best lineup would be to keep Mancz at OC and move Martin to LG?
I seem to recall that X graded out relatively poorly. Is there an evaluation on his performance?
Perhaps the best lineup would be to keep Mancz at OC and move Martin to LG?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From PFF re. 2015 season (written after 2016 preseason):
A former second-round pick, Su’a-Filo is yet to justify his lofty draft status on the field. Selected with the 33rd overall pick in 2014, the former UCLA Bruin is yet to show NFL-caliber talent. This preseason, he’s graded negatively in every game, giving up a sack and three hurries in 51 snaps. His issues in pass protection are not new, unfortunately; Su’a-Filo ranked 62nd out of 72 tackles in pass-blocking efficiency last season, giving up four sacks, seven hits, and 15 pressures over 325 snaps.
From PFF re. 2016 season:
In Xavier Su’a-Filo (57.0) and Jeff Allen (48.5), the Texans offensive line featured two of the league’s worst guards last season.
Guard Xavier Su’a-Filo surrendered seven sacks and 39 total pressures and earned below-average run-blocking grades last season.
(PFF did say that Su'a-Filo seemed to improve near the end of the season and into the playoffs)
************************
Unless Su'a-Filo dramatically improves this season in both run blocking and pass blocking, he will continue to be a significant liability as a LG (and to our QB)...........and likely earn his way to the label of bust.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This is what I recall seeing - "below average run blocking".
If Martin could come back strong, and I believe you are guarded on this, his move to LG would seem to be an ideal situation with his strength in run blocking; and keeping Mancz at OC after his performance last season.
However it shakes out, we should be strong up the middle and maybe Foreman can provide better performance from the RB's.
badboy
Hall of Fame
you trust Manz and Martin at LG more than X and they have not played a down there?
You phrase that question as if X has set a pretty high bar. At our best last season, we had 2/5 of an offensive line .... with Martin hopefully on the mend.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jeff Allen primed for rebound season in Houston
By: Jeff Risdon | July 6, 2017 5:21 pm ET
Jeff Allen’s first year in Houston was one to forget. After signing as a free agent for 4 years and $28 million, both Allen and the Texans expected the prized veteran to shore up the meddling right guard position.
Allen flopped miserably. Had the Texans also not been on the wrong end of the Brock Osweiler fleecing, Allen’s bad season would get much more attention from both the local and national media.
He wasn’t always so lousy. In fact, just one year earlier it was easy to see why the Texans had so much interest in the 2012 second-round pick out of Illinois.
It’s unrealistic to expect Allen to get back to that top-ranked form. Yet it’s also completely realistic to expect the veteran to rebound somewhere closer to his prior play.
Foremost is health. Allen battled an ankle injury all season, one which required surgery in the offseason. He also suffered a concussion during the season. He’s healthy now. In fact, his rehabilitation has included an impressive, and
In fact, his rehabilitation has included an impressive weight loss. The guard from Illinois is down over 20 pounds, which will only help his mobility.
Comfort in his new position in a new offense will also help. Allen was previously a left-side player. Moving to the right required a retraining of his muscle memory and instincts with his footwork. Bill O’Brien’s offense also required him to move more before engaging defenders.
That was a lot on his plate, especially considering his mobility was limited with the ankle issue. He didn’t forget how to play. Allen simply wasn’t able to overcome the obstacles thrown in his way commensurate with his fat new contract.
If Allen has any professional pride, he will be definitively better in 2017. The Texans can sorely use a fresh, motivated Jeff Allen to anchor the right side of the tumultuous offensive line.
**************************************************************************************
There was a stark contrast between Allen's 2015 and 2016 performance. He sustained a significant calf muscle tear the beginning of Sept last year. He continued to play with this issue throughout the season. His ankle issue was not identified until the playoffs. I have no doubt that the calf injury led to the compensating wear/trauma to his ankle which ultimately led to his offseason surgery. Calf tears are even more notorious than hamstring tears to recur, even from season to season. But with his first opportunity to adequately rest and rehab, and with his newly found determination to get his body into optimum shape, there is a good chance that this season Allen shows us more of why he was originally signed.
By: Jeff Risdon | July 6, 2017 5:21 pm ET
Jeff Allen’s first year in Houston was one to forget. After signing as a free agent for 4 years and $28 million, both Allen and the Texans expected the prized veteran to shore up the meddling right guard position.
Allen flopped miserably. Had the Texans also not been on the wrong end of the Brock Osweiler fleecing, Allen’s bad season would get much more attention from both the local and national media.
He wasn’t always so lousy. In fact, just one year earlier it was easy to see why the Texans had so much interest in the 2012 second-round pick out of Illinois.
It’s unrealistic to expect Allen to get back to that top-ranked form. Yet it’s also completely realistic to expect the veteran to rebound somewhere closer to his prior play.
Foremost is health. Allen battled an ankle injury all season, one which required surgery in the offseason. He also suffered a concussion during the season. He’s healthy now. In fact, his rehabilitation has included an impressive, and
In fact, his rehabilitation has included an impressive weight loss. The guard from Illinois is down over 20 pounds, which will only help his mobility.
Comfort in his new position in a new offense will also help. Allen was previously a left-side player. Moving to the right required a retraining of his muscle memory and instincts with his footwork. Bill O’Brien’s offense also required him to move more before engaging defenders.
That was a lot on his plate, especially considering his mobility was limited with the ankle issue. He didn’t forget how to play. Allen simply wasn’t able to overcome the obstacles thrown in his way commensurate with his fat new contract.
If Allen has any professional pride, he will be definitively better in 2017. The Texans can sorely use a fresh, motivated Jeff Allen to anchor the right side of the tumultuous offensive line.
**************************************************************************************
There was a stark contrast between Allen's 2015 and 2016 performance. He sustained a significant calf muscle tear the beginning of Sept last year. He continued to play with this issue throughout the season. His ankle issue was not identified until the playoffs. I have no doubt that the calf injury led to the compensating wear/trauma to his ankle which ultimately led to his offseason surgery. Calf tears are even more notorious than hamstring tears to recur, even from season to season. But with his first opportunity to adequately rest and rehab, and with his newly found determination to get his body into optimum shape, there is a good chance that this season Allen shows us more of why he was originally signed.
Last edited:
Number19
Hall of Fame
We're only going into training camp. Emphatically yes. Mancz and Martin,particularly Martin in my opinion, should be taking snaps at LG. X has the advantage of experience, but from the reports, run blocking is Martin's strength. If he can displace X in the lineup, our run up the middle will be improved.
Let them move Allen back to his natural position at LG, Mancz or Martin at RG with the other at C at let X be the swing interior guy
Then we only have to pray that someone steps up to play a decent RT
badboy
Hall of Fame
No I said, as I and others (as reported here on MB) Su'a-Filo had a decent year and ended well. We cannot only focus on a bad play by a Texan but all his performance.
badboy
Hall of Fame
My understanding is we have been ok running to left so IMO we should leave Allen on right and with improved RT we should greatly improve running to that side which would open up field.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Pads and real hitting haven't started yet but it's getting here. At this point, it will be hard to identify one way or another who's going to excel for the 2017 season but lets look at the cast of characters:
LT: Duane Brown - Starter - (All we and the coaches can hope for is that he arrives to camp in football condition...if not, it could be another slow start)
LG: Xavier Su'a-Filo - Starter - (X need only continue the momentum he created over the final 5 games -including playoffs- to make the RD2 investment worth the pick. If he moves the needle forward in his contract season, he could forever remove talk of him being another "bust" pick.)
OC: Nick Martin or Greg Mancz - Starter - (This is a toss-up and completely depends on two factors. Can NM unseat GM? Martin will be like a rookie with sound book knowledge while Mancz has the experience, book knowledge and happens to be coming off a season in which he excelled. I also think the starter could be determined by which Jeff Allen shows up. If he resembles anything like last year, I seriously think Martin or Mancz will need to step up and cover RG.
RG: Jeff Allen - Starter - (I truly hope his play last season will be due to injuries that just didn't heal over the course of the season. If he can return to KC form, then the team has their answer at RG. If not, the Texans should have Martin or Mancz ready to step in and play the position. This is why I'm hoping the team grooms Martin for this position since he's the better run blocker. He might be better at finally giving the right side a presence in the run game.
RT: Chris Clark - ????? - (Damn, I wish he provided more confidence! This is where the big competition will be but I'm not happy with the list of competitors. At the moment, I'm penciling him in as the starter damn that's painful.
LT Candidates:
Chris Clark - Should remain here and become a swing tackle.
Julien Davenport - He should be shadowing Brown for a couple of seasons so he can eventually replace him.
Kendall Lamm - Should only be working on this side if all else fails.
LG Candidates:
Jeff Allen - If "X" fails to deliver, then Jeff Allen could move over to a position he's familiar and provided he's playing healthy. If not...
Chad Slade - Former 2015 UDFA Auburn OG who started but played primarily as RG. Have to hope "X" continues to get better and stays healthy.
Nick Martin- If all else fails, he might actually answer the bell.
OC Candidates:
Kyle Fuller - Rookie - 2016 RD7 - Baylor - Did a good job at Baylor but no one is sure if his game transitions to the NFL. Wait and see.
Erik Austell - Rookie - UDFA - Played LT at Charleston Southern but would be too small (6-3 @ 301 lbs) for his game to transition to NFL as OT or OG. He would fit a ZBS but that isn't what the Texans do...a bit of a head scratcher as to what he will provide other than a camp body.
RG Candidates:
Josh Walker - Big body OG (6-6 @ 320 lbs) from Middle Tennessee State who has played this position but lacks athleticism. Team will have to see if he continues to develop.
David Quessenberry - Knows the system but the team can only hope that he has regained his strength enough so that he can truly compete for a roster spot this season. He would be a big addition, especially with the needs for starters and depth.
RT Candidates:
Breno Giacomini - If this guy shows up at camp healthy enough to deliver like he did in Seattle, then it could be a lifesaver. If not, then it still leaves a lot of questions at RT. He's a former TE that has quick feet and could be a nice answer if only...
Laurence Gibson - I like the former Virginia Tech OL who was drafted by the Cowboys. The Cowboys released him but they did see enough in him to spend a draft pick on him. Hopefully with some developmental time he could contribute in the future.
Kendall Lamm - A natural for this side of the line. Also, a position he's most familiar with.
My preference:
LT- Brown
LG- Su'a-Filo
OC- Mancz
RG- Martin
RT- Lamm
ST- Clark
SG- Allen
RG- Quessenberry
OC- Fuller
RT- Giacomini
LT: Duane Brown - Starter - (All we and the coaches can hope for is that he arrives to camp in football condition...if not, it could be another slow start)
LG: Xavier Su'a-Filo - Starter - (X need only continue the momentum he created over the final 5 games -including playoffs- to make the RD2 investment worth the pick. If he moves the needle forward in his contract season, he could forever remove talk of him being another "bust" pick.)
OC: Nick Martin or Greg Mancz - Starter - (This is a toss-up and completely depends on two factors. Can NM unseat GM? Martin will be like a rookie with sound book knowledge while Mancz has the experience, book knowledge and happens to be coming off a season in which he excelled. I also think the starter could be determined by which Jeff Allen shows up. If he resembles anything like last year, I seriously think Martin or Mancz will need to step up and cover RG.
RG: Jeff Allen - Starter - (I truly hope his play last season will be due to injuries that just didn't heal over the course of the season. If he can return to KC form, then the team has their answer at RG. If not, the Texans should have Martin or Mancz ready to step in and play the position. This is why I'm hoping the team grooms Martin for this position since he's the better run blocker. He might be better at finally giving the right side a presence in the run game.
RT: Chris Clark - ????? - (Damn, I wish he provided more confidence! This is where the big competition will be but I'm not happy with the list of competitors. At the moment, I'm penciling him in as the starter damn that's painful.
LT Candidates:
Chris Clark - Should remain here and become a swing tackle.
Julien Davenport - He should be shadowing Brown for a couple of seasons so he can eventually replace him.
Kendall Lamm - Should only be working on this side if all else fails.
LG Candidates:
Jeff Allen - If "X" fails to deliver, then Jeff Allen could move over to a position he's familiar and provided he's playing healthy. If not...
Chad Slade - Former 2015 UDFA Auburn OG who started but played primarily as RG. Have to hope "X" continues to get better and stays healthy.
Nick Martin- If all else fails, he might actually answer the bell.
OC Candidates:
Kyle Fuller - Rookie - 2016 RD7 - Baylor - Did a good job at Baylor but no one is sure if his game transitions to the NFL. Wait and see.
Erik Austell - Rookie - UDFA - Played LT at Charleston Southern but would be too small (6-3 @ 301 lbs) for his game to transition to NFL as OT or OG. He would fit a ZBS but that isn't what the Texans do...a bit of a head scratcher as to what he will provide other than a camp body.
RG Candidates:
Josh Walker - Big body OG (6-6 @ 320 lbs) from Middle Tennessee State who has played this position but lacks athleticism. Team will have to see if he continues to develop.
David Quessenberry - Knows the system but the team can only hope that he has regained his strength enough so that he can truly compete for a roster spot this season. He would be a big addition, especially with the needs for starters and depth.
RT Candidates:
Breno Giacomini - If this guy shows up at camp healthy enough to deliver like he did in Seattle, then it could be a lifesaver. If not, then it still leaves a lot of questions at RT. He's a former TE that has quick feet and could be a nice answer if only...
Laurence Gibson - I like the former Virginia Tech OL who was drafted by the Cowboys. The Cowboys released him but they did see enough in him to spend a draft pick on him. Hopefully with some developmental time he could contribute in the future.
Kendall Lamm - A natural for this side of the line. Also, a position he's most familiar with.
My preference:
LT- Brown
LG- Su'a-Filo
OC- Mancz
RG- Martin
RT- Lamm
ST- Clark
SG- Allen
RG- Quessenberry
OC- Fuller
RT- Giacomini
I think Duane Brown had a pretty good season, so did XSF & Mancz.
I hope DB76 gets better as he's had a completely healthy offseason.
I think we should expect XSF & Mancz to get better as they're still developing.
"We" projected Martin to be better than Mancz. We drafted him in the second round. We named him the starter prior to injury. I think he should be in the mix.
Allen, disappointed me last season. But there are questions about his health & for some reason he managed to start ahead of Aboushi when healthy. So the Texans see something there.
I think our best option is to move XSF to RT. I know he didn't impress as a rookie, but I believe he is a much better player now. He has the ability to play the position. His flaws as a rookie, imo, we're technical, fixable. I feel confident he can play the position better than Derek Newton did.
I like Chris Clark for spot duty. Come in the game for a few snaps. I even like him to fill in for a game or two if needed. For Kendall Lamm to stay on the team, he's got to be better than Clark.
Davenport is a lock for the team, though he may never make the game day roster.
So I'm in need of depth on the interior. But I think Brown, Allen, Mancz, Martin, XSF are our best five.
I hope DB76 gets better as he's had a completely healthy offseason.
I think we should expect XSF & Mancz to get better as they're still developing.
"We" projected Martin to be better than Mancz. We drafted him in the second round. We named him the starter prior to injury. I think he should be in the mix.
Allen, disappointed me last season. But there are questions about his health & for some reason he managed to start ahead of Aboushi when healthy. So the Texans see something there.
I think our best option is to move XSF to RT. I know he didn't impress as a rookie, but I believe he is a much better player now. He has the ability to play the position. His flaws as a rookie, imo, we're technical, fixable. I feel confident he can play the position better than Derek Newton did.
I like Chris Clark for spot duty. Come in the game for a few snaps. I even like him to fill in for a game or two if needed. For Kendall Lamm to stay on the team, he's got to be better than Clark.
Davenport is a lock for the team, though he may never make the game day roster.
So I'm in need of depth on the interior. But I think Brown, Allen, Mancz, Martin, XSF are our best five.
We also drafted XSF in the second round, actually higher than Martin so just cause we drafted Martin in a high round is no guarantee he will develop rapidly.
We are all hopeful about him but until the pads go on it remains to be seen how he does as an NFL linelman ?
XSF to RT, yikes I dunno 'bout that ? Who knows maybe that's their plan but I have doubts about XSF handling edge rushers since he's had issues blocking the pass rush playing at guard in the interior of the OL.
We also drafted XSF in the second round, actually higher than Martin so just cause we drafted Martin in a high round is no guarantee he will develop rapidly.
We are all hopeful about him but until the pads go on it remains to be seen how he does as an NFL linelman ?
XSF to RT, yikes I dunno 'bout that ? Who knows maybe that's their plan but I have doubts about XSF handling edge rushers since he's had issues blocking the pass rush playing at guard in the interior of the OL.
I'm pretty high on Sua-Filo. Always have been. I think there were a lot of politics involved in his development. As a rookie, he played like a rookie.
I don't think he "struggled" at all last season. In fact he looked like a burgeoning star the last four or five weeks he played.
Like XSF & Mancz, i think Martin will develope on the field, in real games.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He was a miscast in college, struggling mightily when he was called upon to play OT. With everything we have seen of him in the NFL so far, he would be an even greater miscast if sent to RT. Good OTs in college commonly are required to move to NFL OG. Good NFL OGs are seldom moved to OT..............and XSF has not yet even established himself as a good NFL OG.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Referencing just the potential starters along the OL...I might be more inclined to ask Mancz to take some snaps at RT. He has football smarts and arrived from Toledo as a versatile OL who played up and down the line. Outside of Lamm, Davenport, Giacomini, Clark and Gibson...I'd give Mancz a pretty good chance against this group if RT was his focus during camp.
I could also argue that Mancz should stay at center and capitalize on a much better than expected season but...if Martin arrives at camp and proves ready to take the center position, then it may not be too far fetched to figure out how to keep Mancz on the field by having him take on the challenges of playing RT. One thing is for certain, there are definitive answers at RT at the moment.
I wouldn't want to move Su'a-Filo, he's finally had a breakthrough moment at LG and should remain there for nothing more than the working continuity between him and Brown. Not to mention, throughout his UCLA and Texans career he's strictly been a left side of the line type of guy, a few starts at LT but shining moments at LG. Leave him at LG and let the polishing be completed.
Brown stays at LT and if and this is a big "IF" Allen shows up healthy and ready to play at his KC level then the RG question is answered. This could give the Texans a starting line of:
LT- Brown
LG- Su'a-Filo
OC- Martin
RG- Allen
RT- Mancz
Competitors for Backup Spots:
OT- Davenport (RD4 Mandatory Spot)
OT- Giacomini
OT- Clark
OT- Lamm
OC- Fuller
OC- Austell
OG- Walker
OG- Slade
OG- Quessenberry
I could also argue that Mancz should stay at center and capitalize on a much better than expected season but...if Martin arrives at camp and proves ready to take the center position, then it may not be too far fetched to figure out how to keep Mancz on the field by having him take on the challenges of playing RT. One thing is for certain, there are definitive answers at RT at the moment.
I wouldn't want to move Su'a-Filo, he's finally had a breakthrough moment at LG and should remain there for nothing more than the working continuity between him and Brown. Not to mention, throughout his UCLA and Texans career he's strictly been a left side of the line type of guy, a few starts at LT but shining moments at LG. Leave him at LG and let the polishing be completed.
Brown stays at LT and if and this is a big "IF" Allen shows up healthy and ready to play at his KC level then the RG question is answered. This could give the Texans a starting line of:
LT- Brown
LG- Su'a-Filo
OC- Martin
RG- Allen
RT- Mancz
Competitors for Backup Spots:
OT- Davenport (RD4 Mandatory Spot)
OT- Giacomini
OT- Clark
OT- Lamm
OC- Fuller
OC- Austell
OG- Walker
OG- Slade
OG- Quessenberry
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28. Houston Texans: Given the quarterback issues, it's imperative the blocking improve. But LT Duane Brown is unhappy with his contract, C Nick Martin is an unknown quantity — he is Zack Martin's brother, for what it's worth — after losing his rookie season to an ankle injury, and RT Derek Newton won't be back from two ruptured patellar tendons this year.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ne-rankings-cowboys-titans-raiders/474298001/
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USAs ranking for the NFLs OLines just came out with our guys at 28 and division rival Tennessee right behind Dallas as the second best OLine in the entire NFL.
Interestingly they have SB contender Seattle as having the worst OLine in the entire league.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ne-rankings-cowboys-titans-raiders/474298001/
***
USAs ranking for the NFLs OLines just came out with our guys at 28 and division rival Tennessee right behind Dallas as the second best OLine in the entire NFL.
Interestingly they have SB contender Seattle as having the worst OLine in the entire league.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I would definitely be open to Allen and X switching but don't see that happening.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Martin was well enough known to be thought of as # 2 center coming out of college. Every review I saw said he would start game one. I'm not a grammar expert but should that read unknown quality? His quantity would be one I think...
I don't know about that.
I have only rewatched the Bengals game, and X looked nothing like that.
In fact, the only guy that looked good in that game was D. Brown.
Mancz looked OK, but that's because he was normally in a double-team.
Also, the Bengals were the only better-than-average D the Texans faced over the second half, 17th in yards allowed and 8th in points allowed.
I had rewatched the other games, but only in general (plus Mancz), to get a feel of how the line performed overall.
Again, D. Brown was the only constant.
Well, also Oday Aboushi in game 14 when he started at LG and then moved to RG when X spelled Allen late in the third. (I know OA also played in some later games but I wasn't looking at him particularly).
Besides Brown (and OA in that particular game), the rest of the line looks average at best.
I plan to go back and rewatch the second half of the season and the playoffs for a closer look at the Oline.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
An article loaded with a lot of "ifs"...but, with a lot of good points. Brown and the Texans will not take this issue into the season and Martin was doing just fine in his development before his injury derailed his rookie season. Su'a-Filo played his last few games like the game finally slowed down for him and hopefully he carries that into his contract season. Can Allen give the Texans a healthy and KC like season this year? If not, can Mancz or Martin be the answer at RG? If he can, where does Mancz fit into the starting lineup?
If the LT, LG, C, and RG spots solidly during camp, would the Texans consider allowing Mancz to join in the competition with Lamm, Giacomini, Clark and Davenport for the RT spot? Biggest question in regards to the OL, is there an answer to the RT dilemma in this group? I really wish the Texans had addressed this position during the off-season so the depth chart positions would be the top priority during camp.
On a side note...why in the hell do analyst continue to list Newton as a major lost piece? From the looks of it, I thought he was playing with 2 bad patellar tendons from the get go...as in his very first game with the team. I feel like those tendons kept him from getting cut from the herd last season. That day will eventually arrive.
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Many folks beleive the difference between the skills and challenges needed to play LT vs RT is greater than the differences between
what's needed to play RT vs the interior of the line at guard or center. OK I'm not saying we've got anybody at guard/center on our roster right now who could effectively play RT in this league. Maybe we do but most likely not.
The reasons for this are obvious since most QBs are right handed which means the LT has the QBs blind side and the TEs play next to the
RTs to provide help making the edge not quite the edge that it is in the same since on the left side of the OLine, i.e., the RT is not all alone on an island the way the LT is. So the upshot of all of this is that a less than competent RT is probably less apt to get a teams QB killed than
a bad LT would.
I have no idea what any of this means
badboy
Hall of Fame
I'd like to think Josh Walker could do better than some of those getting looks now.
http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...’s-cause/3a2da861-e7cc-48ae-b149-6944e779337bGREEN BAY – A guard by trade, Josh Walkerhasn’t had much time to learn to play tackle as well.
He’s proving to be a quick study.
After getting a share of snaps at right tackle in the Packers’ last two preseason games, the big-bodied Walker (6-5, 328) believes he’s shown the versatility demanded of a backup offensive lineman, as he continues to state his case for a spot on the 53-man roster.
“I feel so much more comfortable (than) after the Pittsburgh game,” Walker said following Saturday night’s contest with Philadelphia at Lambeau Field. “I got some good reps against good quality opponents. I don’t bat an eye when I go to tackle now.”
Read more: http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...861-e7cc-48ae-b149-6944e779337b#ixzz4mvPDAgrS
Full article at link
Texansballer74
The Marine
The reason I believe they listed Newton as a major lost, is because he was pretty solid in the run game. As you seen we couldn't even run to the right side at all last season. We were damn near dead last running to the right side verses top 12 the season before. Yes Newton was terrible is pass pro but normally every RT is meh is pass pro.
Been with a couple other teams but still young, just 26 last month, so maybe this guy will be our real sleeper prospect at RT. That would be a nice surprise.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am hoping we will have a young good oline going into 2018 with some depth..
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
His only real experience was with GB in 2015, where he played in 13 games at STs, RG, and at RT (3 games). In 2016 during TC he suffered what was reported as a minor MCL sprain. At the beginning of the regular season, he was placed on IR. But since his injury settlement was not offered almost 2 months later, it is obvious that there was more damage to his knee than reported. He was actually examined medically and tried out once again by the Packers the end of October 2016 with no interest shown in re-signing him. One week later, the Texans examined him and immediately signed him to the PS.............
