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So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

Ben Frank said:
From my understanding, Mick Vick went back to school another year b/c he didn't want the Texans, a expansion team to draft him.. he didn't want us then, and I don't want him now..
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Vick was drafted in 2001. Unsubstantiated rumor was he left college early to avoid the Texans. Given his personality I would guess he was going to come out early anyway. Why wait for his millions when he was going #1 already?
 
I find it humorous that Manziel is being touted as 6'1" and 210#.

940x.jpg


Colin Klein is 6'5" and Te'o is 6'1"

Saw him at the Rockets game next to Chris Paul (6'0") and he was at least 2 inches shorter than Paul.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I find it humorous that Manziel is being touted as 6'1" and 210#.

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Colin Klein is 6'5" and Te'o is 6'1"

Saw him at the Rockets game next to Chris Paul (6'0") and he was at least 2 inches shorter than Paul.
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FyI... I don't like Manziel's size any better than Bridgewaters. I think both are worthy of a first round pick, because of their intangibles. But for me, neither has the intangibles to make up for their "perceived" size. If Bridgewater weighs in at 215, that changes. I don't think Jonny can do anything to compensate for his size to make me want to risk the first overall pick on him.
 
kingtexan said:
Manziel is about the same height as Brees ... non-issue.
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Even if that were true - of course it is an issue. There is a reason why we only have a select few QBs that are this short in the NFL. Being short means having trouble to see over the O-Line, having to throw at weird angles sometimes and usually not being able to absorb as many hits.

Manziel may be a great pro QB because he is just an amazing talent. But you can`t neglect his size when evaluating him. It just means, that he needs to be even better at all the rest.

Personally I would be way to scared to take Manziel. His size is just one part of that. He excelled in college by improvising a lot and doing tons of circus plays. In the pros, defenses will figure him out earlier than that. He is a good pocket passer, but I don`t have enough confidence in his ability here to take him 1-1. And the way he moves I´d be surprised if he could finish the season without a major injury.

His skill set is phenomenal - and if he actually can make the swith to the pros, he might be the best QB of this draft class. But he has a pretty big "bust potential" as well - both with his plays not translating well to the pros and with possible injuries.
 
kingtexan said:
Brett Favre was only listed at 6'2" and also had the reputation of playing with reckless abandon.
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Manziel doesn't weigh any 210 pounds. He'd be lucky to weigh in at 290 unless he gets into a load of daily cheeseburgers between now and the Combine. Favre's playing weight was around 225......big difference.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Manziel doesn't weigh any 210 pounds. He'd be lucky to weigh in at 290 unless he gets into a load of daily cheeseburgers between now and the Combine. Favre's playing weight was around 225......big difference.
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At 290, Manziel could convert to Center if things didn't work out at QB.

Wonder how he kicks, maybe he could replace our other 290 lb ATM alumni.
 
Errant Hothy said:
Brees measured 6' 1/4" at the combine. The short guy in that photo is not taller than 6'.
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neither is Russell Wilson:thisbig::fingergun:



Don't pick Manziel and he is the next Russell Wilson/Drew Brees - Do we want to be the team that passed on him?


Pick Manziel -if he is a bust - it will take years to undo that.

Dang-most QBs are not going to work out - Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr - it's just a risk you take -but you need a great qb and coach to do anything in this league.
 
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MEGA SWATT said:
neither is Russell Wilson:thisbig::fingergun:



Don't pick Manziel and he is the next Russell Wilson/Drew Brees - Do we want to be the team that passed on him?


Pick Manziel -if he is a bust - it will take years to undo that.

Dang-most QBs are not going to work out - Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr - it's just a risk you take -but you need a great qb and coach to do anything in this league.
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But neither Wilson of Brees went 1-1. And lets stop acting like Brees and Wilson are the same size. Wilson measuered 5'10" and 5/8 at the combine and Brees ws 6'0" and 1/4. About an inch and a half difference. Also there is more than a slight difference in style.

I agree Manziel is the pick that somebody will get fired over. Either for passing on him or taking him.
 
MEGA SWATT said:
Don't pick Manziel and he is the next Russell Wilson/Drew Brees - Do we want to be the team that passed on him?


Pick Manziel -if he is a bust - it will take years to undo that.
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It really depends on how the rest of that draft turns out. If another QB becomes the guy we were looking for, it's a fail. Especially if it's Bridgewater & Bortles. We had our pick, could have had any one we wanted & passed on the franchise QB.

Then it also depends on how the rest of the players pan out. Very few players in the 2002 draft are worth talking about, 12 years later. Julius Peppers name comes up a lot because of that. The 2006 draft was also pretty bare, but we got one of the better players in that draft (& I doubt anyone will be talking about any of them in 2018).

Whoever we draft, we've got to be extremely honest about who he is & what he can & can't do. Then do our best to ensure he succeeds.
 
MEGA SWATT said:
Pick Manziel -if he is a bust - it will take years to undo that.
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Actually Eric Winston brought out a good point on 610 yesterday. JFF is going to get someone fired. Either the GM that takes him, or the GM that doesn't. Pick him and what do you have to lose? If he doesn't work out in two years you are picking #1 again and can grab another prospect.
 
ObsiWan said:
Interesting info.... but of those 20+ data points, I wonder how many are "tainted" with YAC yds...

oh and I like the Blitz/no-blitz data....
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I would think that the chart is referring to yards traveled through the air, or else the "screens" row wouldn't really make sense.
 
PockyAF said:
dac1df56a625269e6277bd4b9d95b3d3.png

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http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum
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It's interesting to see how they fair when you remove the easy screen passes. Bridgewater's 78% completion percentage comes from picking apart defenses in the 1-20 yard range where you need to read coverage and understand complex route systems. 6-15 yard passes are the bread and butter of NFL offenses and that's where he's at his best. Those are the routes defenses can't take away without risking the deep ball.

The blitz beater numbers are also a huge plus. If he gets protected, defenses are going to be punished for sending more rushers. That's a great catch-22 to throw at them. If you sit back, he picks apart your coverage in intermediate routes, and if you blitz he makes you pay.

On the flip side, this chart reinforces the concerns with Carr and his ability to handle pressure.
 
welsh texan said:
If we were to take a vet QB we can trade back from the #1 gaining #4,#26 & #36 in addition to #33, allowing the Browns our #1 and guaranteeing them teddy by jumping in front of the Jags.

Take a vet, improve the OL get a QB a little later on, and spend 2 high picks to improve the D.

This takes the pressure off our rookie QB to start before he's ready and allows us o improve immensely across the team.

Now, we only do this if the new coaching staff don't think Teddy is the guaranteed franchise QB for the next 15 years.

The guy who suggested Orton earlier, I wouldn't be against that, I think if you have the guy of the future in the draft, but he isn't ready to start, Orton is the type of guy who can game manage, take the pressure off the rookie, and most importanly, give some cap relief compared to say cutler so we can go out and get a couple of mid-level FAs to further improve.

I see this as a plan that guarantees the ability to get to a ~.500 record at the least (decent coaching dependant) and possibly get straight back into the playoffs.
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How is Kyle Orton better than Schaub?
 
IlliniJen said:
Freeman intrigues me. He had a good year, then something went wrong. I wonder if it was coaching. But I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. This really isn't the time to start taking chances on guys, and that includes Cutler, who has reached his ceiling and is only going to go downhill.

We'll take Teddy with the first pick and let Obie mold him. I would rather go Clowney first and get a QB in the second round, but I think QB need is exaggerated this year because of the dumpster fire rotation of Schaub and Keenum.
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How is taking a chance on Freeman any different than taking a chance on Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel? I bet we could get him on a contract that eliminated long term risk so if it's not working out we could just cut him. At least Freeman has shown he can do it in the NFL.
 
Steal Your Face said:
How is taking a chance on Freeman any different than taking a chance on Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel? I bet we could get him on a contract that eliminated long term risk so if it's not working out we could just cut him. At least Freeman has shown he can do it in the NFL.
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Is this a serious post? Dear God. :vincepalm:
 
Steal Your Face said:
How is taking a chance on Freeman any different than taking a chance on Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel? I bet we could get him on a contract that eliminated long term risk so if it's not working out we could just cut him. At least Freeman has shown he can do it in the NFL.
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It's time you got off the Internet and took a nap. You are obviously exhausted.

I'd never thought I'd say I'll take another year of Keenum but I'd gladly take that over the train wreck that has become Josh Freeman.
 
PapaL said:
It's time you got off the Internet and took a nap. You are obviously exhausted.

I'd never thought I'd say I'll take another year of Keenum but I'd gladly take that over the train wreck that has become Josh Freeman.
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All I can tell you is brace yourself. Its going to be a long offseason.

Vick, Freeman, VY....... hell, even Grossman may get some run on this board at some point in the offseason.
 
PockyAF said:
dac1df56a625269e6277bd4b9d95b3d3.png

faa6106d8159048b90f27320c3fe5281.png

badd97e75a9c3812fc5331a805d0f91f.png


http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum
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I've been thinking about this data comparison since I saw it yesterday .... It sure paints Bridgewater in a favorable light ..... but it doesn't factor in the level of competition which has to be an issue as it makes projection to playing with the big boys difficult.

While Manziel is putting up video game numbers against the best teams in the country including 562 yards against Bama's defense .... Bridgewater is slugging it out with heavyweights like Floridia International University.
This disparity in strength of opposition makes comparison difficult at best.
 
Corrosion said:
I've been thinking about this data comparison since I saw it yesterday .... It sure paints Bridgewater in a favorable light ..... but it doesn't factor in the level of competition which has to be an issue as it makes projection to playing with the big boys difficult.

While Manziel is putting up video game numbers against the best teams in the country including 562 yards against Bama's defense .... Bridgewater is slugging it out with heavyweights like Floridia International University.
This disparity in strength of opposition makes comparison difficult at best.
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I'm with you on this and will expand on it a little more. What happens when a QB is pressured constantly and the correct pass is to throw it away? What about dropped passes? What about receivers who were hurt during the year? Easy wide open receivers or fitting it into tight spaces constantly? Stat nerds love this kind of stuff, but I'd rather just turn on the film to evaluate a QB effectively.
 
PapaL said:
I'd never thought I'd say I'll take another year of Keenum but I'd gladly take that over the train wreck that has become Josh Freeman.
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I don't understand this. The guy had issues in Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay has proven they very well could have been the problem. Josh Freeman is the prototypical size, has an NFL arm, & has shown flashes in the NFL. He is not a headcase, ala VY, or Jamarcus Russell. He does not bring the circus ala TeBow.

& we don't have a starting QB on our 2014 roster.

We're not suggesting Freeman is the future of the Texans, that would be Bridgewater, Bortles, Mettenberger, Boyd, or Thomas.

Freeman would have a one year platform to show the other NFL teams he can be a franchise QB.

Freeman, Keenum, & a rookie will compete for the starting job in camp. If Keenum wins, we cut Freeman. If Freeman wins, we cut Keenum. If the rookie wins, we cut the worst of the lot.

This way we're not handing the starting job, yet again, to someone who hasn't earned it. Our starting QB would be someone who has either won a game in the NFL, or beat out someone who had.
 
Corrosion said:
While Manziel is putting up video game numbers against the best teams in the country including 562 yards against Bama's defense .... Bridgewater is slugging it out with heavyweights like Floridia International University.
This disparity in strength of opposition makes comparison difficult at best.
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A&M set records for offensive production in the SEC. Supposedly the best collective of defenses in college football.
 
Texn4life said:
I'm with you on this and will expand on it a little more. What happens when a QB is pressured constantly and the correct pass is to throw it away? What about dropped passes? What about receivers who were hurt during the year? Easy wide open receivers or fitting it into tight spaces constantly? Stat nerds love this kind of stuff, but I'd rather just turn on the film to evaluate a QB effectively.
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The first rule of statistic is that they must be understood to be useful. Statistics are not a substitute for the hard work of evaluation.
 
Corrosion said:
I've been thinking about this data comparison since I saw it yesterday .... It sure paints Bridgewater in a favorable light ..... but it doesn't factor in the level of competition which has to be an issue as it makes projection to playing with the big boys difficult.

While Manziel is putting up video game numbers against the best teams in the country including 562 yards against Bama's defense .... Bridgewater is slugging it out with heavyweights like Floridia International University.
This disparity in strength of opposition makes comparison difficult at best.
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Texn4life said:
I'm with you on this and will expand on it a little more. What happens when a QB is pressured constantly and the correct pass is to throw it away? What about dropped passes? What about receivers who were hurt during the year? Easy wide open receivers or fitting it into tight spaces constantly? Stat nerds love this kind of stuff, but I'd rather just turn on the film to evaluate a QB effectively.
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Yeah and when you look at the film, you see TB playing average against the best defenses he faced in his conference, UCF and Houston. He didn't impress me when I saw him against UH.
 
Steal Your Face said:
How is taking a chance on Freeman any different than taking a chance on Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel? I bet we could get him on a contract that eliminated long term risk so if it's not working out we could just cut him. At least Freeman has shown he can do it in the NFL.
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Rick has a propensity to sign bad QB's to 5 yr $64 mill deals, so I could see Rick taking a chance on Freeman. (Sarcasm////)
 
Marshall said:
The first rule of statistic is that they must be understood to be useful. Statistics are not a substitute for the hard work of evaluation.
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The problem with stat geeks though is they figure that numbers tell the whole story.

GuerillaBlack said:
Yeah and when you look at the film, you see TB playing average against the best defenses he faced in his conference, UCF and Houston. He didn't impress me when I saw him against UH.
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Teddy has skills, and definitely possesses the work ethic and intelligence from all accounts. I'm concerned that he doesn't have that "IT" factor that's been discussed frequently here. There's only one QB who does, and stats don't normally tell the whole story with "IT" guys. Brady won the Super Bowl with stats that don't rival what he's done in his best years, but he came through when it counts.
 
Texn4life said:
The problem with stat geeks though is they figure that numbers tell the whole story.



Teddy has skills, and definitely possesses the work ethic and intelligence from all accounts. I'm concerned that he doesn't have that "IT" factor that's been discussed frequently here. There's only one QB who does, and stats don't normally tell the whole story with "IT" guys. Brady won the Super Bowl with stats that don't rival what he's done in his best years, but he came through when it counts.
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You're not suggesting we take Mr IT factor, Tim Tebow as our veteran QB, are you?
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't understand this. The guy had issues in Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay has proven they very well could have been the problem. Josh Freeman is the prototypical size, has an NFL arm, & has shown flashes in the NFL. He is not a headcase, ala VY, or Jamarcus Russell. He does not bring the circus ala TeBow.

& we don't have a starting QB on our 2014 roster.

We're not suggesting Freeman is the future of the Texans, that would be Bridgewater, Bortles, Mettenberger, Boyd, or Thomas.

Freeman would have a one year platform to show the other NFL teams he can be a franchise QB.

Freeman, Keenum, & a rookie will compete for the starting job in camp. If Keenum wins, we cut Freeman. If Freeman wins, we cut Keenum. If the rookie wins, we cut the worst of the lot.

This way we're not handing the starting job, yet again, to someone who hasn't earned it. Our starting QB would be someone who has either won a game in the NFL, or beat out someone who had.
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I agree with this. This is the best scenario that could happen. No more giving the starting position due to draft status or because they gave up draft picks for a starting qb.

Let the best man win.
:texflag:
 
Marshall said:
You're not suggesting we take Mr IT factor, Tim Tebow as our veteran QB, are you?
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Tim Tebow and Manziel are nothing alike in my view personallity wise and in their games. To be honest I'm leaning towards Manziel right now. He's the only QB in the 1st round that gives me hope. I'd be OK with Murray in the 2nd or 3rd if we decide to go a different route in the 1st, but would just be blah with Teddy and Bortles in the 1st. I'd be disgusted with Bortles in the first.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't understand this. The guy had issues in Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay has proven they very well could have been the problem. Josh Freeman is the prototypical size, has an NFL arm, & has shown flashes in the NFL. He is not a headcase, ala VY, or Jamarcus Russell. He does not bring the circus ala TeBow.

& we don't have a starting QB on our 2014 roster.

We're not suggesting Freeman is the future of the Texans, that would be Bridgewater, Bortles, Mettenberger, Boyd, or Thomas.

Freeman would have a one year platform to show the other NFL teams he can be a franchise QB.

Freeman, Keenum, & a rookie will compete for the starting job in camp. If Keenum wins, we cut Freeman. If Freeman wins, we cut Keenum. If the rookie wins, we cut the worst of the lot.

This way we're not handing the starting job, yet again, to someone who hasn't earned it. Our starting QB would be someone who has either won a game in the NFL, or beat out someone who had.
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I have a hard time even considering Freeman because ... he couldn't get it done inTB and he couldn't even get on the field in Minny and their QB situation is arguably just as bad as that of the Texans ....

Give me some other option .... like Dan Orlovsky running out the back of the endzone or something :corrosion:
 
Corrosion said:
I've been thinking about this data comparison since I saw it yesterday .... It sure paints Bridgewater in a favorable light ..... but it doesn't factor in the level of competition which has to be an issue as it makes projection to playing with the big boys difficult.

While Manziel is putting up video game numbers against the best teams in the country including 562 yards against Bama's defense .... Bridgewater is slugging it out with heavyweights like Floridia International University.
This disparity in strength of opposition makes comparison difficult at best.
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Bama also gave up 45 to OU. 30 something to auburn. Against the three best teams they played they went 1-3 and gave up over 30 points all three times and gave up over 40 twice. The sec as a whole gave up a bunch of points this year.

I get the level of competition knocks, but we aren't subtracting what manziel did against rice, or smu or Sam houston or utep. Never mind that some of those lower sec teams weren't that good he played and that he actually struggled against lsu and a little against Missouri. But a lot of these not as talented schools have nfl caliber talent on them. And some of them have really good coaches.

I wouldn't put too much into manziel being in the sec. There's a lot of factors there. I mean, his own defense is in the sec and they were terrible.
 
Uncle Rico said:
The passing clinic Teddy B put on SAT night was a thing of beauty.

Guess who I want <wink>
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Nice article, but perhaps a bit biased?


MistaRed said:
Until he throws his 1st pick. Then he's Theodore again.
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Who is Alvin and Simon though.. I need to know. :kitten:

BetaV1 said:
There's much talk that the Bears may franchise Cutty. It makes financial sense for them as the tag is imagined to be in the area of 16.5ish million. That's not too far off from where his annual salary was with the Bears to begin with.

Even so, I've come to the realization that Cutler probably cannot be had for atleast $15 million and that is too steep for my taste.

I guess my quarterback for next year is Bridgewater... I'm scared. :hides:

You know, there's nothing stopping us from doing what the Redskins did when they took RGIII and simply draft two quarterbacks in there is another good one sitting there.
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Not sure why all the talk about Cutler anymore. He signed a 7 year deal with the Bears on Jan. 2 Did I miss something?

Texn4life said:
The problem with stat geeks though is they figure that numbers tell the whole story.

Teddy has skills, and definitely possesses the work ethic and intelligence from all accounts. I'm concerned that he doesn't have that "IT" factor that's been discussed frequently here. There's only one QB who does, and stats don't normally tell the whole story with "IT" guys. Brady won the Super Bowl with stats that don't rival what he's done in his best years, but he came through when it counts.
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Wait... didn't people say Keenum had the "IT" factor? Didn't AJ go so far as to say Keenum had an "aura" about him? Buzz words IMHO, and even if the IT factor is real, you will not know it until the player exhibits in a big game, so I will take the guy who loves football, and is a student of the game because he loves it (Bridgewater), over a guy who thinks he is bigger than the game (Manziel).

I would like to see McCown if they are going to bring in a vet, as he did look spectacular in place of Cutler while he was injured.
 
Nitrofish said:
Nice article, but perhaps a bit biased?




Who is Alvin and Simon though.. I need to know. :kitten:



Not sure why all the talk about Cutler anymore. He signed a 7 year deal with the Bears on Jan. 2 Did I miss something?



Wait... didn't people say Keenum had the "IT" factor? Didn't AJ go so far as to say Keenum had an "aura" about him? Buzz words IMHO, and even if the IT factor is real, you will not know it until the player exhibits in a big game, so I will take the guy who loves football, and is a student of the game because he loves it (Bridgewater), over a guy who thinks he is bigger than the game (Manziel).

I would like to see McCown if they are going to bring in a vet, as he did look spectacular in place of Cutler while he was injured.
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Is there anyone who has says Manziel isn't a student of the game? Last time I check he went to George Whitfield after his true freshman year when he redshirted because he wanted to win the starting job so bad. He loves to party and that's clear, but I've talked to a few people in the A&M program that will tell you he works his butt off too.
 
Texn4life said:
Is there anyone who has says Manziel isn't a student of the game? Last time I check he went to George Whitfield after his true freshman year when he redshirted because he wanted to win the starting job so bad. He loves to party and that's clear, but I've talked to a few people in the A&M program that will tell you he works his butt off too.
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Not going to dispute anything you say here...but I will present another view....

If you are a tech geek and you had a chance to sit down with Steve jobs or if you aspire to be president one day and you got the chance to visit the president for a couple days in the white house...or if you wanted to be an actor and you got a chance to visit Leonardo dicaprio (sp)....or you were an aspiring singer and you got to spend time with Barry Gordy at Motown....would there be anything that would keep you from doing that?

Personally, it'd have to be pretty serious for me to not take advantage of an opportunity to not want to hang out with and maybe learn from someone considered to be among the best in my field.

Manziel and the manning passing camp. You love playing qb...eat, breathe, live football. But you get sick, of drunk, or over sleep, or whatever and miss that chance?

I don't know manziels soul, but surely you can understand why some people would have some questions about him in this area.
 
Corrosion said:
I have a hard time even considering Freeman because ... he couldn't get it done inTB and he couldn't even get on the field in Minny and their QB situation is arguably just as bad as that of the Texans ....
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As I mentioned, the problem in TB could very well have been TB, or the coach they fired. Minnesota fired Frazier, then Tampa Bay hired him.... that's a circle jerk of fck right there. I'd rather bring Freeman here & let our coaches decide before letting the organization that drafted Ponder in the first round make our QB decisions.
 
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