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So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

paycheck71 said:
Are you saying that's a CBA stipulation? These pay cuts happen all the time - Doug Free took one last year from the Cowboys. I just never knew that it had to be tied to an extension.
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No you do not have to do an extension and he doesn't have to be cut.

According to multiple sources, Houston Texans wide receiver Kevin Walter took a pay cut to remain with the Texans for the 2012 season. Walter was set to make $3.5 million in base salary with a $4.5 million salary cap number, but has agreed to reduce his salary to $2 million for the upcoming season with his remaining two years of his contract staying the same for the 2013-2014 seasons.
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Link

Santonio Holmes is willing to accept a pay cut for the second year to remain with the New York Jets.

"Anything for the team," Holmes said Wednesday, via the New York Daily News. "Anything for the team."

Asked if it would matter how much his salary was reduced, Holmes replied, "Probably not. I mean with the production comes big pay, so do your job."

That seems to be an acknowledgment that Holmes has underperformed since signing a five-year, $45 million contract four years ago.
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Link
 
thunderkyss said:
First, let me say that I'm warming to the idea of taking a QB with the #1 overall pick. However, I just happen to be lurking in the fan forums of other NFL teams. I happened into GangGreen.com, expecting to see a few generic draft threads. I was totally surprised to see a well developed thread discussing this year's crop of QBs. Why was I surprised?

Because they've already got 2 first round QBs on their roster. I know they're "just fans" & their opinions have little to do with the decisions made by the franchise, but more or less, they're like us. There are a few guys there who know what they're talking about. & just lilke here, the gist of the problems are more or less close enough.

But they're regretting the selection of either 1st round QB.

That's the situation I don't want to be in. Yes, we need a QB. Yes, we need a QB of the future. But there is a very good possibility that, that QB is not in this draft. Just last year, the Jets took the best QB in the draft, & he wasn't the guy (at least many of their fans question that he is).

At the same time, it is interesting most of them acknowledge if Bridgewater, or Clowney were available at their pick, 18th, they wouldn't pass up either.


Edit:Daniel Jeremiah said
​
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First of all I'd like to point out that my ability to analize football is the same of a dead racoon, so what I'm saying down here is just the result of what I observed and read about 1 year ago waiting for the draft


geno is actually a 2nd round QB if I recall correctly.
also he was the 2nd QB drafted in '13 (after E.J. Manuel)

there was a lot of doubts going around Geno, nobody was really sure about him

This is from a simple google search limited from 1/1/13 to 20/4/13


Source1
Source2
Source3

Source4
Source5

As you can see there were 2 types of issues with geno
1- character issues
2- on-the-field + lack-of-awareness-instincts

Now it's too early to say, but I feel like the general opinions about
TB/JM/BB
are much better than the opinions of geno 1 year ago.

I don't really know why, but I would rather we got a QB in the first round intead of a DE

but then again:
Sigma said:
my ability to analize football is the same of a dead racoon
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so... I'll just wait and hope what we'll do will be the right thing :D
 
paycheck71 said:
Are you saying that's a CBA stipulation? These pay cuts happen all the time - Doug Free took one last year from the Cowboys. I just never knew that it had to be tied to an extension.
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While I'm sure there are occasional exceptions, usually the union allows reductions in seasonal pay only when they are offset in increased guaranteed money or extension into future years with at least equal guaranteed money. It is more obvious in baseball, but also followed in football. All of these contracts are governed by both the contract itself and Master Agreements between unions and the leagues which establish parameters for player contracts and processes for exceptions or exemptions.
 
Marshall said:
Look at the guaranteed money.
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The guaranteed money was in the form of a signing bonus and was already paid. The reductions were in the base salaries. There were no extensions added. Why don't you just admit that you're wrong and allow this thread to get back on topic?
 
Lucky said:
The guaranteed money was in the form of a signing bonus and was already paid. The reductions were in the base salaries. There were no extensions added. Why don't you just admit that you're wrong and allow this thread to get back on topic?
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Why? You just made my point. No guaranteed money to no guaranteed money. Base is irrelevant when it is not guaranteed.
 
Marshall said:
Why? You just made my point. No guaranteed money to no guaranteed money. Base is irrelevant when it is not guaranteed.
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We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I actually can see a scenario where we keep Schaub next season if we decide to go with Jadaveon Clowney at 1:1. If Schaub returns to his pre-13 self we have a good shot at playoffs already. If not, we're back selecting top 10 again which isn't all bad. In this scenario I'd hope there was a QB they think highly enough to sit behind Schaub and learn the off field professional aspect of being a pro. As bad as Matt was last year, he could be a good mentor. Cap hit is awful high and I think this scenario is unlikely.

My favorite continues to be Teddy Bridgewater at 1:1 and as our starter. He is professional in his demeanor, he's smart, he loves football, he's highly motivated, and would represent the franchise very well. All this leads me to believe O'Brien, Smith and McNair take him to be our franchise guy.
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Hopefully your scenario doesn't play out this way.

I don't get the representing the franchise thingy. It's not my franchise, it's BoB's franchise. So any player is not representing me or my city. All I care about is can said player help win championships.

I do know that I set the bar higher than most when it comes to winning. But that the reason they keep score and it's entertainment. I hate losing and don't care what it takes to put a winner on the field. If fans held BoB to this standard we the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS wouldn't be forced to endure seasons like last season or decades like last decade.
 
thunderkyss said:
We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
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You're confusing Cap Savings with Cap Hit. The Cap Savings is the total compensation for a year minus the amount of dead money left on the entire remaining contract. In Shaub's case There is $10M remaining in dead money for the rest of his contract and $14M due for 2014. But even if his base is reduced this year, his dead money remains, Cutting him eliminates all the dead money from this contract after 2014 hit with $4M left from what he would have counted against the Cap. If you're only worried about THIS YEAR'S cap, then you could get more room with a salary reduction, but it just pushes off the Dead Money and it's problems to future years.

I admit my focus is on freeing up cap space for 2015 for Watt. Pushing off Schuab's dead money till next year when we need the cap space the most does not appeal to me. Which is why Cutting him and then resigning him is a better plan if you want to retain him.
 
Marshall said:
paycheck71 said:
Just to clarify that cutting Schaub will only clear up $4MM in cap space (unless he's a post June 1 cut) due to the dead money his contract carries. It's certainly better than having to take a $14.5MM hit if he stays. If OB wants Schaub to stay and compete for a starting job, then maybe he could be persuaded to take a pay cut. His base in 2014 is $10MM, and if they can negotiate it down to $5-6, it would provide the same cap relief as releasing him.
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He can't do that unless he extends his contract. But we can cut him and then resign him.
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What paycheck71 said is true. No extension is required. Cutting Matt Schaub is not required.


Matt Schaub has a $17M cap number in 2015. Cutting him & taking the hit in 2014 will free up $17M, making him a June 1st cut frees up $10M in 2015.

That $7M will most likely have no effect on signing Jj Watt long term. We'll be $25M under the cap making Schaub a June 1st cut. There are still other things we can do to free up more money.

In Paycheck's scenario, Schaub takes a paycut for 2014, & we cut Schaub as a June 1st cut going into the 2015 season, We'll free up $14M for 2015, opposed to $17M.
 
thunderkyss said:
We're talking about the cap here. The point, I believe, is that we can reduce Schaub's cap number by asking him to take less salary in 2014. His salary is the biggest part of his 2014 cap number, $10M (the remainder comes in the form of pro rated ($3.5M) & roster bonus ($1M).

If we ask Schaub to take a $4M pay cut, it would be the equivalent (cap wise) to cutting him & taking the $10M cap hit in 2014... we wouldn't have to cut him, then re-sign him.

He'll also be under contract & due $12M for 2015 & $14M for 2016. $3.5M in prorated bonus going towards his cap number each year ($17M in 2015, $19M in 2016). A bone if you will. A reason why Schaub would actually take that deal. If he's cut, then he'll have to find another team that would pay him $6M in 2014, then $12M in 2015 & $14M in 2016. If he plays outstandingly, there's a chance the Texans will pay him that money. He would be betting on himself, unless he thinks another team would dish out those kinds of salaries. However, he might leave if he thinks another team would pay him a $10M signing bonus.

So if we cut his pay in 2014, then cut him in 2015, we'll still gain $10M toward cap. The kicker, imo, if we cut him & absorb the dead money in 2014, that will free up $17M toward the cap in 2015 & $19M in 2016.
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This is exactly the point I was trying to make. The Texans have options with Schaub if they want to keep him to see if he can be fixed or fit a new system better, or whatever.
 
paycheck71 said:
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. The Texans have options with Schaub if they want to keep him to see if he can be fixed or fit a new system better, or whatever.
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You're going to hear people say he's broke. That it's a physical issue, due to his foot. However, I believe Schaub was much more athletic this past year than we've seen in quite some time. His foot never came up in any of the discussions about what was wrong with this team. He never appeared to favor his foot, or require any extra attention because of it.

The fact is that though we know he had a Lisfranc injury, we don't know how severe it was & from what I've seen, it doesn't look like it was very severe at all.

That said.... he's broke. He has no confidence & it was that confidence that caused him to telegraph his throws & throw the ball late instead of anticipating the receiver's break. Those aren't the kind of things I would expect a QB with his history & at his age to fix.

Then again, looks like Carson Palmer is back.
 
It is obvious that Schaub had no significant residual negative performance effects specifically related to his Lisfranc ligament fracture injury.

head-in-the-sand.gif
 
I can't see Schaub being back based on how McNair and smith have commented on the situation. Seems to me they've already decided to move on.

I think Schaub could handle the different offense and the extra responsibilities he'd have as a qb with obrien. But I don't think he'll get the chance and I don't think he should. Don't trust him at all.
 
_King_ said:
I can't see Schaub being back based on how McNair and smith have commented on the situation. Seems to me they've already decided to move on.
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If it were me making the decision, saving $4M would not be enough to cut Matt Schaub, considering the organization feels the need to have a veteran QB on the team.

Now, make Schaub a June 1st cut, & cutting him becomes a much more attractive to the tune of $11M dollars.
 
thunderkyss said:
If it were me making the decision, saving $4M would not be enough to cut Matt Schaub, considering the organization feels the need to have a veteran QB on the team.

Now, make Schaub a June 1st cut, & cutting him becomes a much more attractive to the tune of $11M dollars.
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Either way he is gone.

He will never wear a Texans uniform again.
 
kingtexan said:
Either way he is gone.

He will never wear a Texans uniform again.
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I think that is most likely the case. However, McNair said he wants a veteran QB on the team in 2014. From the available FAs we know of now, who do you want?

Our cap situation isn't as bad as a particular member would have you believe (bless her heart), but we do need to be smart about how we "invest" our resources this offseason.

Vick
Henne
Freeman
Hill
Whitehurst
Garrard
Grossman
Kitna
McCown (x2)
McCoy
Painter
Webb

Again, I don't care to ever see Matt Schaub in a Texans uniform again. But I don't want to see the Texans shoot themselves in the foot for some misplaced hatred. There were several QBs playing as poorly as Schaub to start 2013 (for whatever reason) each hurting their teams chances of winning. Those franchises stuck it out with their guy; Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer... & they all managed to end the season better off than we did (well, we got the #1 pick... none of them made the play-offs).

Phillip Rivers was thought of as "worse" than Schaub just two years ago, last year he "bounced back."

We need to objectively consider all our options, that's all I'm saying.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think that is most likely the case. However, McNair said he wants a veteran QB on the team in 2014. From the available FAs we know of now, who do you want?

Our cap situation isn't as bad as a particular member would have you believe (bless her heart), but we do need to be smart about how we "invest" our resources this offseason.

Vick
Henne
Freeman
Hill
Whitehurst
Garrard
Grossman
Kitna
McCown (x2)
McCoy
Painter
Webb

Again, I don't care to ever see Matt Schaub in a Texans uniform again. But I don't want to see the Texans shoot themselves in the foot for some misplaced hatred. There were several QBs playing as poorly as Schaub to start 2013 (for whatever reason) each hurting their teams chances of winning. Those franchises stuck it out with their guy; Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer... & they all managed to end the season better off than we did (well, we got the #1 pick... none of them made the play-offs).

Phillip Rivers was thought of as "worse" than Schaub just two years ago, last year he "bounced back."

We need to objectively consider all our options, that's all I'm saying.
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Really very simple.

If we draft JFF ... we sign Vick.

If we don't, we sign a pocket QB like McCown or similar.
 
kingtexan said:
Yeah well Smith trashed the cap and still has a job for some reason. That's a whole different issue.
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I wouldn't say trashed. We "thought" we were Super Bowl contenders. Gotta pay to play.

I still think Schaub's contract was just shy of genius. He evaluated Matt correctly, recognized the risks, & provided several outs for himself. Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Cutler.... at the time, I wouldn't have taken any of those for Schaub & those teams married themselves to those QBs. Flacco, maybe. But I wouldn't have given him the money he got for sure. Somewhere between what Schaub got & what Flacco got.

We can cut Schaub (& several others) for a net gain in 2014. We can use the June 1st option & it's a big gain.
 
Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 53s

Source familiar with the Texans tells me the team would have no problem drafting Bortles & bringing in a veteran to ease Bortles along.
 
srrono said:
Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 53s

Source familiar with the Texans tells me the team would have no problem drafting Bortles & bringing in a veteran to ease Bortles along.
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Who is Tony Pauline? Is this a credible source?
 
thunderkyss said:
I wouldn't say trashed. We "thought" we were Super Bowl contenders. Gotta pay to play.

I still think Schaub's contract was just shy of genius. He evaluated Matt correctly, recognized the risks, & provided several outs for himself. Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Cutler.... at the time, I wouldn't have taken any of those for Schaub & those teams married themselves to those QBs. Flacco, maybe. But I wouldn't have given him the money he got for sure. Somewhere between what Schaub got & what Flacco got.

We can cut Schaub (& several others) for a net gain in 2014. We can use the June 1st option & it's a big gain.
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I just don't see shifting $7M of the Cap hit to 2015 when we need it most.
 
srrono said:
Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 53s

Source familiar with the Texans tells me the team would have no problem drafting Bortles & bringing in a veteran to ease Bortles along.
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Yes and McNair is also wanting to draft Clowney. Texans trying to make the #1 pick attractive.
 
JB said:
Who is Tony Pauline? Is this a credible source?
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stingray said:
He sounds like a soprano character.
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I can tell you who he's not...

He's not Bill O'Brien. And if we take a QB at 1-1 Bill O'Brien will be making that selection. And he sure as sh!t isn't talking to Tony Pauline or Jason LaCanfora or Tony Soprano or any other NFL rumor-mongering media types trying to boost their Twitter following.
no.gif~original


Team
emot-airquote.gif
sources quit telling the truth to the media regarding the draft when their slot was set. If fun for us to play in, but take it fwiw.
 
There are plenty of threads where this is relevant, but I'll start with this one.

The Browns reportedly are willing to trade up to get Manziel.

The Cleveland Browns are one of the teams in need of a long-term answer at quarterback and hold the fourth overall pick in the first round of the NFL Draft.

The Browns are willing to trade up to land Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel in the draft if need be, Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports reports, citing sources.
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Link
 
thunderkyss said:
What paycheck71 said is true. No extension is required. Cutting Matt Schaub is not required.


Matt Schaub has a $17M cap number in 2015. Cutting him & taking the hit in 2014 will free up $17M, making him a June 1st cut frees up $10M in 2015.

That $7M will most likely have no effect on signing Jj Watt long term. We'll be $25M under the cap making Schaub a June 1st cut. There are still other things we can do to free up more money.

In Paycheck's scenario, Schaub takes a paycut for 2014, & we cut Schaub as a June 1st cut going into the 2015 season, We'll free up $14M for 2015, opposed to $17M.
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What a stupid contract.

Thanks Rick
 
Playoffs said:
I can tell you who he's not...

He's not Bill O'Brien. And if we take a QB at 1-1 Bill O'Brien will be making that selection. And he sure as sh!t isn't talking to Tony Pauline or Jason LaCanfora or Tony Soprano or any other NFL rumor-mongering media types trying to boost their Twitter following.
no.gif~original


Team
emot-airquote.gif
sources quit telling the truth to the media regarding the draft when their slot was set. If fun for us to play in, but take it fwiw.
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How do you know Rick Smith isn't making the draft calls?
 
Brisco_County said:
There are plenty of threads where this is relevant, but I'll start with this one.

The Browns reportedly are willing to trade up to get Manziel.



Link
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It's a rumor in January involving a team that doesn't even have their Head Coach yet. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm taking this with a grain of salt.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wouldn't say trashed. We "thought" we were Super Bowl contenders. Gotta pay to play.

I still think Schaub's contract was just shy of genius. He evaluated Matt correctly, recognized the risks, & provided several outs for himself. Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Cutler.... at the time, I wouldn't have taken any of those for Schaub & those teams married themselves to those QBs. Flacco, maybe. But I wouldn't have given him the money he got for sure. Somewhere between what Schaub got & what Flacco got.

We can cut Schaub (& several others) for a net gain in 2014. We can use the June 1st option & it's a big gain.
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If Rick/Gary had evaluated Schaub correctly as C-N-D did the Texans probably wouldn't be sitting at 2-14 today.
 
If we draft Bortles I may go into full Texian mode....... Does anyone realize how miserable it would be wanting to cuss your own self out everyday?
 
thunderkyss said:
What paycheck71 said is true. No extension is required. Cutting Matt Schaub is not required.


Matt Schaub has a $17M cap number in 2015. Cutting him & taking the hit in 2014 will free up $17M, making him a June 1st cut frees up $10M in 2015.

That $7M will most likely have no effect on signing Jj Watt long term. We'll be $25M under the cap making Schaub a June 1st cut. There are still other things we can do to free up more money.

In Paycheck's scenario, Schaub takes a paycut for 2014, & we cut Schaub as a June 1st cut going into the 2015 season, We'll free up $14M for 2015, opposed to $17M.
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I'll tell you this, if Schaub is a June 1st cut, JJ is gone after 2015.

Which is why you aren't a GM. 2015 will also have our draft choices and replacements for FAs, at least many of them. The $25M shrinks drastically with required roster additions in 2014. This is why you have to be more skilled than a message board poster to be GM. We still need space in 2015 if we hope to keep JJ around.
 
JCTexan said:
It's a rumor in January involving a team that doesn't even have their Head Coach yet. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm taking this with a grain of salt.
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As anything said from January to May 10 at which time everybody will be happy with who they got in the draft, at least that's what they will say for media consumption.
 
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