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Should Mills be given the reins next season?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I don’t have any deep thoughts or problems with any of this. I just don’t think it’s relevant. we are talking third round here and our starter was TT. It’s a layup. And we don’t know how any other pick would have performed at that spot to compare it to DM’s contribution Anyway.
TK's done a fine job of threading the needle of not liking the Mills pick and somehow not having an issue with Mills being the QB.

He did the same thing with the Derrick trade. He liked what Caserio got in the trade but doesn't like how Caserio went about making the trade.

Frankly I find this kind of thinking strange.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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Frankly I find this kind of thinking strange.
Thank you.


TK's done a fine job of threading the needle of not liking the Mills pick and somehow not having an issue with Mills being the QB.
Every year I say I don't watch college football. So to me it's more about position. I didn't like using our 1st pick on a QB & to me it signaled the Texans thought an awful lot of him.

I didn't like him walking on & given the #2 QB job after only playing 11 games in college.

But he impressed me one way or the other every week.

Still, young QBs on bad teams usually don't make it. & every one around them look worse than they should.

There are exceptions. I hope Mills & the Texans are.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
TK's done a fine job of threading the needle of not liking the Mills pick and somehow not having an issue with Mills being the QB.

He did the same thing with the Derrick trade. He liked what Caserio got in the trade but doesn't like how Caserio went about making the trade.

Frankly I find this kind of thinking strange.
I believe he’s playing devils advocate like always.
 

thunderkyss

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I believe he’s playing devils advocate like always.
I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
Not me. If someone with talent of Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady or Peyton Manning in his prime was sitting there for the Texans at #3 in the 2022 draft and the Texans said, "no thanks, we'll go with a corner" (or any other position) they'd be forever be looked upon as morons, and rightfully so.

By the way, you can still sit your quarterback for a year or so like the Chief's did with Mahomes and Rodgers and that worked out pretty well for those teams.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
Couldn't disagree more.
If there's a QB you like, you take him. Never know when another one will come along.
And like I said earlier, the personnel moves they've made are pretty much the same type moves they would make in your scenario too
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
Doesn't matter what you like. What's done is done. How do you think the rebuild is going.

I'm glad Mills is the QB and I'm looking forward to seeing how he grows.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Not me. If someone with talent of Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady or Peyton Manning in his prime was sitting there for the Texans at #3 in the 2022 draft and the Texans said, "no thanks, we'll go with a corner" (or any other position) they'd be forever be looked upon as morons, and rightfully so.

By the way, you can still sit your quarterback for a year or so like the Chief's did with Mahomes and Rodgers and that worked out pretty well for those teams.
Or trade the pick for a boatload of picks to help expediate the rebuild. This really comes down to whether you truly believe Mills is a franchise QB, I think he is.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
I think the Texans got lucky with where Mills fell. I don’t think it was part of the plan. I think he was there and Caserio isn’t afraid to do something that isn’t conventional and take risks.

Tyrod was the plan to roll with at QB. Mills was forced to play.

IMHO.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I'm telling you exactly why I don't like it. I wouldn't start my rebuild with a QB. It's simple. & has nothing to do with Mills. His name could be Aaron Rodgers for all I care.
At the time, the move to draft Mills with our first pick in Caserio's first draft with the whole Deshaun Watson situation just really getting going reeked of desperation.

I mean, come on. Do you really think you're going to find Deshaun's replacement in the 3rd round with some guy who's played less than 15 games in college?

But, in hindsight, I don't think it was desperation. I think it was just working the board, taking the BPA, and not overreaching based on perceived need but on the perceived value of that player at that time-- similar to the Bronco's taking Terrell Davis in the 6th round even though they didn't need a running back. I think Caserio had Mills pretty high on his board and probably knew that the 2022 draft was going to be bereft of QBs. If he was going to take a swing and a miss on a QB, this was the best time to do it.

And I don't necessarily agree with not starting your rebuild with a QB. A QB's career can be a lot longer than the other players. If you build up this great team of great players, you run a real risk of wasting their talent and careers if you don't hit on the QB at just the right time. If you see a QB you think could be the guy, I say you take your shot and build around him.
 

thunderkyss

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Not me. If someone with talent of Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady or Peyton Manning in his prime was sitting there for the Texans at #3 in the 2022 draft and the Texans said, "no thanks, we'll go with a corner" (or any other position) they'd be forever be looked upon as morons, and rightfully so.

By the way, you can still sit your quarterback for a year or so like the Chief's did with Mahomes and Rodgers and that worked out pretty well for those teams.
Peyton Manning may be the only exception to the rule. Rodgers & Majomes went to playoff teams.

If Mahomes & Watson swapped places. Texans still would have won just 4 games in 2019.

Matthew Stafford would never win a Super Bowl & the Lions have been a bad team for 20 years.
 

thunderkyss

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If there's a QB you like, you take him. Never know when another one will come along
different strokes. I gave my reasons for my position

And like I said earlier, the personnel moves they've made are pretty much the same type moves they would make in your scenario too
& we’re giddy about our draft. If Mills can’t read a defense or recognize a blitz or free rusher, or how to manage a hot route, we’ll be back to talking about the talentless OL & Tunsil’s empty pro bowls & lack of offensive weapons.

again, I hope Nick & Lovie can develop a team & a QB at the same time. But odds are against them.
 

thunderkyss

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Doesn't matter what you like. What's done is done.
I agree. But I keep getting asked, so I keep saying
How do you think the rebuild is going.
I’m thrilled that a bunch of the coaches from 2021 are carrying over into 2022. I’m glad they found some players they liked in 2021 & were able to form a core to build on. I’m glad guys like Blacklock, Greenard, & Lopez got some good work in last season & appear to be trending towards the good.

I’m glad that even though Nick tried, 2021 wasn’t a complete waste.


I'm glad Mills is the QB and I'm looking forward to seeing how he grows.
Like you said, what’s done is done. Hopefully the rest of the team can develop with him.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
If Mahomes & Watson swapped places. Texans still would have won just 4 games in 2019.
I don’t know how people can believe that.

If Mahomes was drafted by this team he never would have been running and chasing hoes because Mahomes was engaged. Hopkins would still be on this team because no Momma Watson calling up Janice.

And to even say that is to discredit Mahomes and give too much credit to Watson and his skill.

Too many variables.
 

thunderkyss

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And I don't necessarily agree with not starting your rebuild with a QB. A QB's career can be a lot longer than the other players. If you build up this great team of great players, you run a real risk of wasting their talent and careers if you don't hit on the QB at just the right time. If you see a QB you think could be the guy, I say you take your shot and build around him.
Good point. But you risk wasting career after career if you start at QB.

You need people who can evaluate their talent on a case by case basis. Pay Ben Jones a little money to keep him. Don’t overdraft, then overpay Martin.

But somebody thought center/RG/RT was the problem because he started with a QB that wasn’t good enough.

that happens again & again on bad teams.

Luckily Mills doesn’t have generational talent hopefully the people that matter won’t fall in love with his “play-making” ability and be able to call a spade a spade.
 

thunderkyss

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What if we had a round 1 and a round 2 in 2021 Draft when we selected Davis Mills in round 3? What if we had drafted wide receiver jamarr Chase and Center Creed Humphreys. We did not have tunsil for most of that season anyway.
I’m really moving far from what my point really is.

but in 2020 we had 10 starters who didn’t know what they were doing taking direction from somebody that didn’t know what he was doing.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
different strokes. I gave my reasons for my position



& we’re giddy about our draft. If Mills can’t read a defense or recognize a blitz or free rusher, or how to manage a hot route, we’ll be back to talking about the talentless OL & Tunsil’s empty pro bowls & lack of offensive weapons.

again, I hope Nick & Lovie can develop a team & a QB at the same time. But odds are against them.
Well, if Mills doesn't pan out, your plan is actually being played out.
They're building the team for the next QB if it isn't Mills
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
I think he's just scratching the surface of his abilities ,since he's played so little. He surprised me with the speed of his decision making in the last 5 games of the season. Plus he throws with great accuracy and anticipation.

Why do you think he's not? Do you think he can't get better?
The game obviously slowed down for him towards the end of the season. Another year should tell us a lot more - especially with some team upgrades around him.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Why would you think Mills is a franchise qb?
For me, there's a reason for optimism looking at his last five starts and extrapolating those stats out to 17 games.

Last Five Starts
Completion%: 68.75
Avg yds/game: 251.6
Avg TD/game: 1.8
Avg Int/game: 0.4

That had him on a pace for the following in 17 games:

Completion%: 68.75
Passing Yds: 4,277.2
Passing TDS: 30.6
Ints: 6.8


Obviously, it's not as simple as that. He probably won't average those numbers for 17 games. But it gives me an idea of what he might be capable of.


Plus, he passed my eye test in the last five games.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Peyton Manning may be the only exception to the rule. Rodgers & Majomes went to playoff teams.

If Mahomes & Watson swapped places. Texans still would have won just 4 games in 2019.

Matthew Stafford would never win a Super Bowl & the Lions have been a bad team for 20 years.
Peyton isn't a rule exception, there's been plenty of highly drafted QBs by bad teams who won SBs in their career. Hell, Peyton isn't even the only Manning to do it.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
I think he can be better than Schaub.
If our running game can be even 50% better, and there are plenty of reasons to believe it should, that will take a lot of pressure off him and open up his passing game more and allow him to settle into a balanced role that is ideal for a QB and a varied, dual threat offence.
A varied two pronged attack is what every OC would want.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I think he's just scratching the surface of his abilities ,since he's played so little. He surprised me with the speed of his decision making in the last 5 games of the season. Plus he throws with great accuracy and anticipation.

Why do you think he's not? Do you think he can't get better?
I think there is a difference between franchise qb and qb of a franchise. A franchise qb is basically an eraser. A qb of a franchise needs everything to be successful. You can win games with a qb of a franchise as long as the team is strong from top to bottom, but that only lasts so long because of free agency. A franchise qb can overcome these shortcomings. Whether its a leaky line, avg running game, middle of the pack defense. A qb of the franchise can't win without all these componets functioning at a high level. I think Mills can be a solid qb, I don't see him as an eraser type. I've told you, I don't see any special physical traits. So you have to build a perfect team which is basically impossible in today's nfl. Before free agency when you could keep your depth and all your players, the qb was almost just like another player, but now he is the most important player in all sports.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
I think there is a difference between franchise qb and qb of a franchise. A franchise qb is basically an eraser. A qb of a franchise needs everything to be successful. You can win games with a qb of a franchise as long as the team is strong from top to bottom, but that only lasts so long because of free agency. A franchise qb can overcome these shortcomings. Whether its a leaky line, avg running game, middle of the pack defense. A qb of the franchise can't win without all these componets functioning at a high level. I think Mills can be a solid qb, I don't see him as an eraser type. I've told you, I don't see any special physical traits. So you have to build a perfect team which is basically impossible in today's nfl. Before free agency when you could keep your depth and all your players, the qb was almost just like another player, but now he is the most important player in all sports.
Even franchise QBs can take time to reach their potential and that obviously starts as a rookie. Look at Drew Brees for an example of that.
There is no escaping the fact that rookie QBs need all the help they can get - if you want to speed up their development.
Even veteran franchise QBs need a good team around them if you want your team to succeed at the highest level - look at the long suffering Matt Stafford for example.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I think there is a difference between franchise qb and qb of a franchise. A franchise qb is basically an eraser. A qb of a franchise needs everything to be successful. You can win games with a qb of a franchise as long as the team is strong from top to bottom, but that only lasts so long because of free agency. A franchise qb can overcome these shortcomings. Whether its a leaky line, avg running game, middle of the pack defense. A qb of the franchise can't win without all these componets functioning at a high level. I think Mills can be a solid qb, I don't see him as an eraser type. I've told you, I don't see any special physical traits. So you have to build a perfect team which is basically impossible in today's nfl. Before free agency when you could keep your depth and all your players, the qb was almost just like another player, but now he is the most important player in all sports.
Interesting but what players can we possibly lose in the next two years? Not saying that Mills will take us to the Superbowl in those years but we will definitely know what we have. If he is a above-average NFL quarterback we have 4 round ones and two round twos to solidify offense. Cooks and Tunsil may leave after contracts but should be replaceable.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Even franchise QBs can take time to reach their potential and that obviously starts as a rookie. Look at Drew Brees for an example of that.
There is no escaping the fact that rookie QBs need all the help they can get - if you want to speed up their development.
Even veteran franchise QBs need a good team around them if you want your team to succeed at the highest level - look at the long suffering Matt Stafford for example.
People always bring up Brees and for good reason. Brees was a 2nd rd pick who did struggle until year 3. By that time, they were in position to draft #1. We have to remember this was before the rookie wage scale also. Happenstance and circumstance and gets with a coach who accented his strengths. Who knows how he would've turned out if he would've went to Miami under Saban. That was also a different nfl with roster turnover. I guess we will see,but just like Chargers didn't pass a franchise caliber qb in Rivers even though they had Brees, I hope if given the opportunity the Texans don't pass either.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Interesting but what players can we possibly lose in the next two years? Not saying that Mills will take us to the Superbowl in those years but we will definitely know what we have. If he is a above-average NFL quarterback we have 4 round ones and two round twos to solidify offense. Cooks and Tunsil may leave after contracts but should be replaceable.
Look at the landscape of the afc and tell me in a game where the Texans will have an advantage at qb? Not only that, those qb's are young too. I guess we will see soon enough.
 

thunderkyss

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Well, if Mills doesn't pan out, your plan is actually being played out.
They're building the team for the next QB if it isn't Mills
Not exactly. If Mills doesn’t work out Brevin Jordan won’t. We’ll probably go through 6 more linemen. Can’t pass pro, can’t run block. QBs telling them to run right when the defense is telling him to run left.

The QB affects so much. You’re not developing the players around him if he’s not developing correctly.

Probably get a new coach with a new system & he’s going to want to turn over the roster over 2/3 years.

it’s a never ending cycle. You get the Jets, Lions, Bears, Browns.

Seattle was able to do it. But they built a true #1 defense to go with their rookie QB
 

thunderkyss

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So you're telling me that a team with no starting QB should willfully not draft a QB who they have rated as a starter, just because the team isn't "built" yet?
Unless you want to ruin that QB, yes.

Troy Aikman to Dallas
Peyton Manning to Indy

Who else has put a rookie QB on a bad team & won?


Russell Wilson to Seattlle ?

Josh Allen to Buffalo
Joe Burrow to Cincinnati

so far so good. But their QBs get so beat up, have they really built anything? We’ll see where they’re at in 2022.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think there is a difference between franchise qb and qb of a franchise. A franchise qb is basically an eraser. A qb of a franchise needs everything to be successful. You can win games with a qb of a franchise as long as the team is strong from top to bottom, but that only lasts so long because of free agency. A franchise qb can overcome these shortcomings. Whether its a leaky line, avg running game, middle of the pack defense. A qb of the franchise can't win without all these componets functioning at a high level. I think Mills can be a solid qb, I don't see him as an eraser type. I've told you, I don't see any special physical traits. So you have to build a perfect team which is basically impossible in today's nfl. Before free agency when you could keep your depth and all your players, the qb was almost just like another player, but now he is the most important player in all sports.
I think he can be better than Schaub's 1st yr on Kirby and that's a franchise QB. IMHO

I get what you're saying but we will have to agree to disagree.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Unless you want to ruin that QB, yes.

Troy Aikman to Dallas
Peyton Manning to Indy

Who else has put a rookie QB on a bad team & won?


Russell Wilson to Seattlle ?

Josh Allen to Buffalo
Joe Burrow to Cincinnati

so far so good. But their QBs get so beat up, have they really built anything? We’ll see where they’re at in 2022.
So, what's your alternative to Mills in your scenario?
A veteran who has already proven to not be a franchise QB?
They did that with Taylor.
 


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