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Should Mills be given the reins next season?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Quit focusing on me and read the post I replied to.
I was focusing on your post with 10 wins in it.

I will go back and checkout the post you responded too.

I apologize, I should've read TB's post before responding.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
Maybe it's just the optimism in me but if Green is the left guard that we think he can be and David Pierce is the running back we think he can be, I say Mills just has to be better. He shown us too much in the last five games for him to be a total disaster.
It is perfectly reasonable to be optimistic about Mills - plenty of experts are also complimentary of his potential and his progress.
I agree with your reasoning as to why and would add we also now have an experienced HC and a more exciting OC as well as a well respected Oline coach.
I expect the team to show gradual improvement as the season progresses.
If this team stays healthy, good things are definitely possible.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
How Davis Mills and Pep Hamilton are poised to improve the Texans’ offense in 2022


General manager Nick Caserio drew enough confidence in Mills’ final five starts — when he ranked eighth with a 102.4 quarterback rating, first among rookies — to eschew pursuing a top-tier passer in a draft that was lacking premier prospects at the position. Available talent will be boosted next year, when Alabama’s Bryce Young and Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud become eligible, and Mills will have to prove he’s at least on track to be a foundational player to keep Caserio from plucking another passer
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I really think Mills is going to be a good (at worst) and great (at best) QB. By good I mean with good players around him he is a 8+ win QB. By great, a 10+ win QB. And it seems people are 50/50 on the viewpoint. So, here is my question, in the way too early to tell the answer.

Media has the Texans drafting
C.J. Stroud from Ohio State with our 1st pick next year. Do you feel Mills is better, and/or good enough to pass on CJ. Or do you think CJ is a better idea even though we have yet to play a full season with Mills?
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
David Mulugheta. This is the name of C.J. Stroud's advisor. Those who manipulate the name in a racist manner will have your posts deleted. If you quote a post that does so, your post will be deleted. We're not going down that road.
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
We have a large faction of posters that buy into guilt by association. College affiliation, ethnicity, other factors. Not being "Texans Worthy" based upon absolutely nothing remains alive and well.
Same people love Buzbee. Both are doing the same thing, what's best for their clients, but one is a villain in some people's eyes.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We have a large faction of posters that buy into guilt by association. College affiliation, ethnicity, other factors. Not being "Texans Worthy" based upon absolutely nothing remains alive and well.
Truth hurts

Clemson trash is just that, trash. I'm so glad the McNair's flushed the toilet on the Clemson trash and yes, Lawrence/Renfrow are included in that trash. Why? Because you can't win a championship with them. Checkout the history.
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
Difference is Buzbee clients weren't perving on massage therapists and Buzbee wasn't setting up his clients with girls to prey upon.
Are you telling me all of Buzbee's clients in his entire career are squeaky clean? And he himself is squeaky clean? He sure smells like a sleezebag to me. And tell me more about Mulugheta setting up girls for Watson.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Are you telling me all of Buzbee's clients in his entire career are squeaky clean? And he himself is squeaky clean? He sure smells like a sleezebag to me. And tell me more about Mulugheta setting up girls for Watson.
Can you prove to me that Buzbee has ever done anything for his clients that Avery (Who's Gett me a hoe's bag man or his other associate Burney who also helped in this sordid tale.) Nope I don't think Buzbee has ever done anything like these idiots.
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
Can you prove to me that Buzbee has ever done anything for his clients that Avery (Who's Gett me a hoe's bag man or his other associate Burney who also helped in this sordid tale.) Nope I don't think Buzbee has ever done anything like these idiots.
I'm not about to try to prove anything to anyone. It's pointless. I don't see much difference between what those 2 are doing, and I'm not sure who Avery is.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm not about to try to prove anything to anyone. It's pointless. I don't see much difference between what those 2 are doing, and I'm not sure who Avery is.
If you cant see it then I'm certainly not going to be able to show you. Fact is the people that are close to Derrick are complicit in where Derrick is today. They helped set him up with some of the massage therapists. If you dont know who Avery is then you haven't been keeping up with Derrick's career or the Houston Texans org for that matter. I honestly dont believe that you dont know who Quincy Avery is. Try google
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
If you cant see it then I'm certainly not going to be able to show you. Fact is the people that are close to Derrick are complicit in where Derrick is today. They helped set him up with some of the massage therapists. If you dont know who Avery is then you haven't been keeping up with Derrick's career or the Houston Texans org for that matter. I honestly dont believe that you dont know who Quincy Avery is. Try google
I'm talking about Mulugheta, not Avery. And like you said, prove what you're asserting.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm talking about Mulugheta, not Avery. And like you said, prove what you're asserting.
Avery has admitted to setting up massages for Derrick and the Ghetto man and Avery work hand in hand. I forget what hand Burney had in this sordid tale, but he played a part in this. BTW, I dont have to prove anything, that's Buzbee's job. A job I'm confident Buzbee will do a fine job representing his clients.
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
Avery has admitted to setting up massages for Derrick and the Ghetto man and Avery work hand in hand. I forget what hand Burney had in this sordid tale, but he played a part in this. BTW, I dont have to prove anything, that's Buzbee's job. A job I'm confident Buzbee will do a fine job representing his clients.
So, you don't have to prove anything, but you want me to prove sh!t? Totally makes sense.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Gonna have to say no to a lot of good players if this is the game you want to play
No, I'm saying I don't want DWs agent or team representatives of a player we have. And looks like the FO took that to heart also. I don’t care where they grew up or anything like that. I just know that that man is a crook. 150mil my 10+% ok bail on them. No thanks
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
This is a fun little stat. In 2021, Mills became the only rookie since 1950 to post three games with a passer rating higher than 125 (minimum of 25 pass attempts). He had two games with more than 300 passing yards, three touchdowns and no picks. Only Justin Herbert and Daniel Jones had more such games (three) in their rookie seasons. Is there any way I can get you to focus on the Justin Herbert part of that statement, and not the Daniel Jones part? I didn't think so.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
From article linked above:

For 2022 to be a success, the Texans MUST:
  • See what they have in Mills. I don't really have high expectations for wins from this team. I just don't. Mills doesn't have to be Herbert or anything, but if he can establish himself as a legitimate starter, allowing the team to spend its draft capital on a position other than quarterback next year, Houston could be a serious contender in 2023.
I don't know about "serious contender" status in 2023. But the author is correct in judging the Texans metric for 2022 success. If Mills can prove to be a QB to build around, that will speed up the rebuild. Being able to draft a star talent like Will Anderson or Jaxon Smith-Njigba will accelerate the Texans chances to become a winner. Going back to search for a QB will only take more time for development.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
From article linked above:


I don't know about "serious contender" status in 2023. But the author is correct in judging the Texans metric for 2022 success. If Mills can prove to be a QB to build around, that will speed up the rebuild. Being able to draft a star talent like Will Anderson or Jaxon Smith-Njigba will accelerate the Texans chances to become a winner. Going back to search for a QB will only take more time for development.
So what does "a QB to build around" mean?

I'd like for him to play at a top ten level in QBR, Passer Rating, & other comprehensive metrics.

But I'm not going to draft CJ Stroud just because Mills only performed at a top 15 level, If I don't believe in CJ Stroud. Regardless what his college career says, regardless what his combine looks like. If after private work outs & interviews I don't believe in him, I'd move on to the next guy. & if that guy doesn't convince me, I'm passing on a 1st/2nd round guy in 2023.

Now, we don't have access to the Texans (or any other teams) private workouts & interviews, so we won't know how that went. But if the Texans pass on a 1st/2nd round QB, I'm going to assume he didn't convince them that he's going to be "that guy."

If Davis can be Miami's Ryan Tanehill for a few years until I find that guy, then I'm hoping he can be Ryan Tanehill for a few years at the very least. That's a QB I can build around. The problem was when they paid him like he was that guy. I'm not giving a Ryan Tanehill a 2nd contract.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
So what does "a QB to build around" mean?
What it means to me is the organization and the players have a belief in Mills as a producer and a leader. Some of that is displayed by stats. Some is a subjective opinion. Having a player in your system for 2 years gives the decision makers a good estimation of what the future player may be able to accomplish.

I go back to the 2004 draft, with the San Diego Chargers holding the 1st pick in the draft. The Chargers had Drew Brees on the roster, heading into his 4th season. HC Marty Schottenheimer and GM AJ Smith were not with the team when Brees was drafted in 2001. Both felt they needed a new QB and, after some draft day drama, acquired Philip Rivers. Rivers and the Charger had many successful seasons together. Yet, they never made it to the Super Bowl, much less won one.

But what if the Chargers braintrust had correctly determined that the franchise QB was already on the roster? Forget QB, let's take this fantastic WR out of the University of Pittsburgh? Can you imagine having a set of triplets like Brees - Tomlinson - Fitzgerald? The best since Aikman - Smith - Irvin? Wouldn't the Chargers chance at a championship have increased greatly?

It's a tough decision. A decision that could be the difference in having a parade for the Texans in downtown Houston, or more seasons of coming up short. This is a very big year, and next offseason presents a very big choice. Stay tuned.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
So what does "a QB to build around" mean?

I'd like for him to play at a top ten level in QBR, Passer Rating, & other comprehensive metrics.

But I'm not going to draft CJ Stroud just because Mills only performed at a top 15 level, If I don't believe in CJ Stroud. Regardless what his college career says, regardless what his combine looks like. If after private work outs & interviews I don't believe in him, I'd move on to the next guy. & if that guy doesn't convince me, I'm passing on a 1st/2nd round guy in 2023.

Now, we don't have access to the Texans (or any other teams) private workouts & interviews, so we won't know how that went. But if the Texans pass on a 1st/2nd round QB, I'm going to assume he didn't convince them that he's going to be "that guy."

If Davis can be Miami's Ryan Tanehill for a few years until I find that guy, then I'm hoping he can be Ryan Tanehill for a few years at the very least. That's a QB I can build around. The problem was when they paid him like he was that guy. I'm not giving a Ryan Tanehill a 2nd contract.
I agree with you. I don’t think anyone coming out in 2023 is a Manning, Brady, Rogers type guy. So, why not shore up the D and OL, RBs (if Mack and Co are not good), WRs and TE. Then yeah look for a QB in 2024...that is IF and it's a big IF Mills is not as good as he is looking. I use the end of last season and what everyone who has seen him thus far working out say. What they say is that he is going to shock alot of teams. They have tape on him now yet it is still being said. Plus, coaches are saying that his placement, timing and moving DBs is really good and impressive. From what I've heard he has only one INT on day 1 or 2 of OTAs and he was not 100% to blame. Something about a pass a WR batted that was a catchable pass a D player snagged. I still have to put some blame on Mills seeing someone else was probably open or coming open when it happened.

We shall see
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree with you. I don’t think anyone coming out in 2023 is a Manning, Brady, Rogers type guy.
This is not what I'm saying. I don't know anything about the guys coming out in 2023. I'm saying if the Texans don't feel like they're getting Russell Wilson in the next draft, & Mills played top 15, then Davis gets another year.

If Mills isn't among the top 15 in the comprehensive metrics (QBR, Passer Rating, PFF, etc...) I'll draft the best QB I can find in 2023. Maybe even two guys or try to drive a wedge between Herbert & the Chargers.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
The question is should Mills be the starting QB in 2022, not will Mills be the starting QB in 2022.
“Should” is my vote.

Hard to dispute his improved play when he was reinstated as QB1, and even harder to dispute what he accomplished over the final 5 games…..enough to make him 1st or 2nd best rookie QB of 2021.

Now, we should add “build” b/c a smart team would work to help him “build” on that success. I believe Caserio and the Texans have taken a positive step in that direction.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
This is not what I'm saying. I don't know anything about the guys coming out in 2023. I'm saying if the Texans don't feel like they're getting Russell Wilson in the next draft, & Mills played top 15, then Davis gets another year.

If Mills isn't among the top 15 in the comprehensive metrics (QBR, Passer Rating, PFF, etc...) I'll draft the best QB I can find in 2023. Maybe even two guys or try to drive a wedge between Herbert & the Chargers.
Lots of other metrics to pay attention to than just QB specific ones.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
What it means to me is the organization and the players have a belief in Mills as a producer and a leader. Some of that is displayed by stats. Some is a subjective opinion. Having a player in your system for 2 years gives the decision makers a good estimation of what the future player may be able to accomplish.

I go back to the 2004 draft, with the San Diego Chargers holding the 1st pick in the draft. The Chargers had Drew Brees on the roster, heading into his 4th season. HC Marty Schottenheimer and GM AJ Smith were not with the team when Brees was drafted in 2001. Both felt they needed a new QB and, after some draft day drama, acquired Philip Rivers. Rivers and the Charger had many successful seasons together. Yet, they never made it to the Super Bowl, much less won one.

But what if the Chargers braintrust had correctly determined that the franchise QB was already on the roster? Forget QB, let's take this fantastic WR out of the University of Pittsburgh? Can you imagine having a set of triplets like Brees - Tomlinson - Fitzgerald? The best since Aikman - Smith - Irvin? Wouldn't the Chargers chance at a championship have increased greatly?

It's a tough decision. A decision that could be the difference in having a parade for the Texans in downtown Houston, or more seasons of coming up short. This is a very big year, and next offseason presents a very big choice. Stay tuned.
We also must remember about the Brees/Rivers thing is Brees was struggling big time the year before they drafted Rivers. They draft Rivers and then Brees has a awesome year. They come back the next year and Brees is having another good year, but messed up his shoulder the last meaningless game. So with basically a top pick at qb on bench and an injured vet, they moved on. That was probably the toughest decision in football history. The Chargers didn't win a title because Rivers wasn't good enough, they had some disfunction and also gave the game away to the Patriots after basically having the game won. Also, posters always say take the best player availible regardless of position and never pass a franchise qb.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We also must remember about the Brees/Rivers thing is Brees was struggling big time the year before they drafted Rivers. They draft Rivers and then Brees has a awesome year. They come back the next year and Brees is having another good year, but messed up his shoulder the last meaningless game. So with basically a top pick at qb on bench and an injured vet, they moved on. That was probably the toughest decision in football history. The Chargers didn't win a title because Rivers wasn't good enough, they had some disfunction and also gave the game away to the Patriots after basically having the game won. Also, posters always say take the best player availible regardless of position and never pass a franchise qb.
I do agree had the Chargers stayed with Brees they still may have never won a championship. Had Brees gone to Miami, I'm sure Miami wouldn't have won a Super Bowl. The Saints won because Brees & Payton were in New Orleans at the right time.

Interesting that Drew Brees was 10th in passer rating in 2005. 6th in completion percentage.

However, I agreed with the Chargers moving on. Not because of any fault on the part of Brees. But Rivers was a stud, hands down #1 overall pick imo. If there's a guy like that in the 2023 draft...
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Right.

but that’s how I would do it.

how would you do it?
I would use the QB metrics you mentioned along with overall play of the team, offense in particular. Watch the games and see how Mills does in situational football. Is he racking up stats in losing efforts? Are his receivers dropping/batting passes (leading to INTs)? How is the running game going? Not saying they need to rush for 150 ypg, but are they picking up crucial yards in crucial situations? How is the OL performing? Is Mills running for his life on every pass play? Is Mills elevating his game and elevating the play of those he leads? How is the team, as a whole performing? The eyeball test is also important to me. Is Mills easily flustered? Are his receivers on the same page with him? Is Mills able to put players in the proper position? Is he calling the right audibles based on what the defense is showing him? Is he able to read the defense post snap and get the ball in the direction of the right player?
Stats are great and useful tools, but not the end-all-be-all. That's all I'm saying.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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Is Mills elevating his game and elevating the play of those he leads?
Is he calling the right audibles based on what the defense is showing him?
Is there an objective way to determine these?
Stats are great and useful tools, but not the end-all-be-all. That's all I'm saying.
I agree. I am not arguing with you. But I believe by adjusting the bar from top 5, top 10, to top 15 will make up for the subjective nature of your criteria. I can't think of a QB that scored below top 15 in comprehensive metrics (QBR & PFF takes those subjective criteria into account) that was worth keeping.

I haven't done a comprehensive study, but I looked back on several years.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Mills should be given every snap available but don’t care what he accomplishes this year. If we have a top 5 pick we need to draft a QB. Much rather have Stroud over Young and will be keeping a close eye on Levis. to draft any other position would be foolish. QBs are just to valuable to pass up a potential franchise QB unless you have a legitimate proven MVP type franchise QB.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
We are so quick to pull the plug. Dang it man give that youngster more than two years. We have to build a team around him on both sides of the ball. The only way I’m drafting a quarterback in the first round next year is if he completely stinks up the joint or sustains a season ending injury.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
We are so quick to pull the plug. Dang it man give that youngster more than two years. We have to build a team around him on both sides of the ball. The only way I’m drafting a quarterback in the first round next year is if he completely stinks up the joint or sustains a season ending injury.
We chose Travis Johnson instead of Aaron Rodgers because we were giving HWWNBN a chance to develop.

If there's a great QB wherever we're drafting next year, Mills will have had to have played lights out Manning-level to keep us from drafting him.

EDIT: IMO.
 

Jack Burton

Veteran
This actually is a pretty good draft for
I agree with you. I don’t think anyone coming out in 2023 is a Manning, Brady, Rogers type guy. So, why not shore up the D and OL, RBs (if Mack and Co are not good), WRs and TE. Then yeah look for a QB in 2024...that is IF and it's a big IF Mills is not as good as he is looking. I use the end of last season and what everyone who has seen him thus far working out say. What they say is that he is going to shock alot of teams. They have tape on him now yet it is still being said. Plus, coaches are saying that his placement, timing and moving DBs is really good and impressive. From what I've heard he has only one INT on day 1 or 2 of OTAs and he was not 100% to blame. Something about a pass a WR batted that was a catchable pass a D player snagged. I still have to put some blame on Mills seeing someone else was probably open or coming open when it happened.

We shall see
Dont sleep on Will Levis Kentucky.
Huge, super althletic and has a rocket arm.
I bet by years end he’s in the mix for the QB #1.

And some of us (Bad Boy-LeeBigz-Steel) we’re talking about how much we liked KJ Jefferson ARK last year.
Kid is legit.
Don’t sleep on him either.
 
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Texansballer74

The Marine
We chose Travis Johnson instead of Aaron Rodgers because we were giving HWWNBN a chance to develop.

If there's a great QB wherever we're drafting next year, Mills will have had to have played lights out Manning-level to keep us from drafting him.

EDIT: IMO.
We don’t know what Caserio and Lovie will do. He can put up 3800+ 30 TD’s and 10 interceptions. IMO they will run it back with Mills in 2023.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We chose Travis Johnson instead of Aaron Rodgers because we were giving HWWNBN a chance to develop.

If there's a great QB wherever we're drafting next year, Mills will have had to have played lights out Manning-level to keep us from drafting him.

EDIT: IMO.
Who was the last can’t miss guy out of Cal?

then there’s Teddy Bridgewater that was being talked about as a #1 overall pick.

Tua Tagovailoa… Baker Mayfield… Sam Darnold… Josh Rosen…

All I’m saying as the Texans need to be good at identifying “great” QBs or it won’t make a difference.
 


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