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Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson

Mangler said:
Russell Wilson is NOT a run first QB. (In my opinion) He’s not afraid to operate from the pocket, but has the speed/athleticism to make guys miss and run for yardage if there’s no one to throw to. He doesn’t panick when the pocket collapses. Watson is the closest to Wilson, but not quite the same style. Guys like RG3, Kancernick, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray (to an extent) are examples of styles that while flashy wont get you a ring in the NFL. Unless you have a great defense like the Broncos in 2015 of course.
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So Watson is a run 1st qb?
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Wilson can throw from the pocket and doesn’t get happy feet when he feels any hint of pressure, and doesn’t scramble in the backfield of the pocket when he should be stepping into it.
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www.pro-football-reference.com

Russell Wilson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Russell Wilson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
 
djohn2oo8 said:
When you bail out of the pocket before it collapses yes that means he prefers to run.
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I'm done 🤣🤣 . Wilson in his early years used to bail out when the wind blew too hard and he was a pocket passer, when Watson bails ,he's a running qb? So even with Beastmode at rb, and legion of boom, and almost 900 yds rushing in 1 season was a pocket passer? When you get the chancewatch some Seattle games 2012-2016
 
Earl34 said:
What's funny. One of the criticisms on this forum was Watson not keeping the ball on the RPO which would have led to..........running more.
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Not staying in the pocket and being afraid to keep the ball on designed plays like RPO's are an apples/oranges comparison. Although not wanting to stay in the pocket taking a hit and delivering an accurate on time throw and not wanting to keep the ball on a RPO do have something in common. Now I think we're onto something.
 
leebigeztx said:
I'm done 🤣🤣 . Wilson in his early years used tobail out when the wind blew too hard and he was a pocket passer, when Watson bails ,he's a running qb? So even with Beastmode at rb, and legion of boom, and almost 900 yds rushing in 1 season was a pocket passer? When you get the chancewatch some Seattle games 2012-2016
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So he doesn’t now right? My point. Watson has not progressed into making his reads and not leaving the pocket at the first sign of trouble. He scrambles in PRACTICE.
 
Talent and a moral compass do not have to go together. Look at Aaron Hernandez. Great tight end on the field. Maddog murderer off the field.

I don't think anyone can really argue that Watson is not a talented player. Look at his stats from his last season played. Anyway you look at it they are damn good numbers.

2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2% | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost

The fact that there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing toward him being a scumbag does not change the fact that he is a gifted athlete. Sadly that is probably enough for him to be forgiven by most fans in Cleveland if he plays at the level he did here.
 
mws said:
Talent and a moral compass do not have to go together. Look at Aaron Hernandez. Great tight end on the field. Maddog murderer off the field.

I don't think anyone can really argue that Watson is not a talented player. Look at his stats from his last season played. Anyway you look at it they are damn good numbers.

2020 stats: 16 games | 70.2% | 4,823 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 33 pass TD | 7 INT | 444 rush yds | 3 rush TD | 3 fumbles lost

The fact that there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing toward him being a scumbag does not change the fact that he is a gifted athlete. Sadly that is probably enough for him to be forgiven by most fans in Cleveland if he plays at the level he did here.
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Those stats mean not a thing. Team went 4-12.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not staying in the pocket and being afraid to keep the ball on designed plays like RPO's are an apples/oranges comparison. Although not wanting to stay in the pocket taking a hit and delivering an accurate on time throw and not wanting to keep the ball on a RPO do have something in common. Now I think we're onto something.
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....until you account for the play calling and OL. Some of you are presenting his pocket presence as if he had plenty of time to sit there and ponder his options. On the majority of offensive snaps, if Watson had time behind the line of scrimmage it was due to his ability to avoid the rush, buy some time and wait for his receivers to get open 40 yards downfield. I was always pretty pissed watching receivers never break their routes to try and help Watson when he was typically running for his life.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
....until you account for the play calling and OL. Some of you are presenting his pocket presence as if he had plenty of time to sit there and ponder his options. On the majority of offensive snaps, if Watson had time behind the line of scrimmage it was due to his ability to avoid the rush, by some time and wait for his receivers to get open 40 yards downfield. I was always pretty pissed watching receivers never break their routes to try and help Watson when he was typically running for his life.
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Yet Derrick made pro bowls with this terrible play calling and no talent around him. He is superman.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not staying in the pocket and being afraid to keep the ball on designed plays like RPO's are an apples/oranges comparison. Although not wanting to stay in the pocket taking a hit and delivering an accurate on time throw and not wanting to keep the ball on a RPO do have something in common. Now I think we're onto something.
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djohn2oo8 said:
So he doesn’t now right? My point. Watson has not progressed into making his reads and not leaving the pocket at the first sign of trouble. He scrambles in PRACTICE.
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Again, Wilson had rushing totals of 489,539,849, and 553 in his 1st 4 seasons. That's also with Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. You know what Watson totals are? 269,551,414, and 441. So again, how do you classify a sub 27 yr old Wilson? See, I can post video after video of Watson sitting in the pocket and delivering strikes and you will try to poke holes in it because he's a creep off the field. I get it. I can also post videos when it looks like he escaped too soon or didn't take the check down. I've said that too. I cam also post videos where it was an absolute jail break before his back foot hit the ground or nobody was open, that happened too. You on the other hand is blinded by the off field Watson to the point you can't be objective. Here is a guy ex nfl qb showing the good and the bad which all young qbs have.

 
leebigeztx said:
Again, Wilson had rushing totals of 489,539,849, and 553 in his 1st 4 seasons. That's also with Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. You know what Watson totals are? 269,551,414, and 441. So again, how do you classify a sub 27 yr old Wilson? See, I can post video after video of Watson sitting in the pocket and delivering strikes and you will try to poke holes in it because he's a creep off the field. I get it. I can also post videos when it looks like he escaped too soon or didn't take the check down. I've said that too. I cam also post videos where it was an absolute jail break before his back foot hit the ground or nobody was open, that happened too. You on the other hand is blinded by the off field Watson to the point you can't be objective. Here is a guy ex nfl qb showing the good and the bad which all young qbs have.

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It's not about rushing totals, a QB should run with the ball as a last option not an option if the 1st guy isn't open take off scrambling around looking for a big play then taking off running. Sit in the pocket and go through your progressions. That's what Wilson does before he scrambles.
 
leebigeztx said:
Pretty much. In 4 years, how many skill position players the Texans drafted in the 1st 3 rds? Where are they now?
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They gave him Hopkins and WFV plus added Miller in FA. So it's not like he didn't have weapons. Still didn't have aTE though, although I know you like Akins alot.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's not about rushing totals, a QB should run with the ball as a last option not an option if the 1st guy isn't open take off scrambling around looking for a big play then taking off running. Sit in the pocket and go through your progressions. That's what Wilson does before he scrambles.
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What progressions is he going through when he has Lynch and teams are playing single high 8 in the box? Do you think the Texans run game ever forced single high? Yet still, Wilson ran for almost a 1000 yds.
 
leebigeztx said:
Pretty much. In 4 years, how many skill position players the Texans drafted in the 1st 3 rds? Where are they now?
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Drafted not many but big part of that is they gave up two draft picks to get him the best LT on the market at that time to protect his blind side and he's still here. They used another draft pick to get him a RT to protect his other side, results are still mixed on that one but the intention was there. They also drafted a center though that didn't pan out, thank you Devlin, so yeah they haven't drafted alot of weapons but they were trying to better protect him.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yet Derrick made pro bowls with this terrible play calling and no talent around him. He is superman.
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Not Superman, but a very talented NFL QB....on the field of play. Eliminate his stupid off the escapades and there's no doubt in my mind that Caserio would've gotten more for Watson.
 
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mws said:
The fact that there seems to be a lot of evidence pointing toward him being a scumbag does not change the fact that he is a gifted athlete.
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OptimisticTexan said:
Not Superman, but a very talented NFL QB....on the field of play. Eliminate his absolute stupid off the escapades and there's no doubt in my mind that Caserio would've gotten more for Watson.
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I don't think anyone here is saying that he is not talented, gifted athlete. They are saying it's highly unlikely that he will be a superb owl winning QB with his current style of play and he is unlikely to change
 
JB said:
I don't think anyone here is saying that he is not talented, gifted athlete. They are saying it's highly unlikely that he will be a superb owl winning QB with his current style of play and he is unlikely to change
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IMHO, I believe the Texans lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball (primarily OC, OL and Running Game) somewhat dictated his style of play. Progressions....what are these progressions some speak of?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Not Superman, but a very talented NFL QB....on the field of play. Eliminate his absolute stupid off the escapades and there's no doubt in my mind that Caserio would've gotten more for Watson.
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Physically talented yes.

Can't win a championship with him though. I've been consistent in saying this. Now that he's with a talented Browns team there should be no excuses. But because of his talent there will always be excuses when he doesn't win. It will always be somebody elses fault.
 
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leebigeztx said:
What progressions is he going through when he has Lynch and teams are playing single high 8 in the box? Do you think the Texans run game ever forced single high? Yet still, Wilson ran for almost a 1000 yds.
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There wasn't always single high, go back and watch the Pats SB.
 
leebigeztx said:
How many games did Fuller play with Hopkins? Most notably, where is the 2018 1st rd pick now? Where is Miller?
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Not as many as we would like.

Miller was an above avg RB before he got hurt. Who was the 2018 1st rd pick? Are there picks outside of the 1sr rd? I know you wouldn't think so with RS and BOB doing the picking.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not as many as we would like.

Miller was an above avg RB before he got hurt. Who was the 2018 1st rd pick? Are there picks outside of the 1sr rd? I know you wouldn't think so with RS and BOB doing the picking.
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I said 1st 3 rds. We all know you can get backs and wrs in the 2nd and 3rd rds easy. Look at the Blackock draft and who went after him. I know your feelings on Watson, it's cool. I respect your perception even if I don't agree.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
IMHO, I believe the Texans lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball (primarily OC, OL and Running Game) somewhat dictated his style of play. Progressions....what are these progressions some speak of?
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Exactly. So, the complaint is Watson was not going through progressions and not staying in the pocket while Nick Martin, Martinas Rankin, Julien Davenport, Kendall Lamm, Zach Fulton, Senio Kelemente, Jeff Allen, Breno Giacomini, Chris Clark, Max Scharping, Tytus Howard and Xavier Su'a-Filo were blocking for him and being coached by Devlin?

Out of curiosity. Besides Howard, from the players I listed, based on their performances with the Texans and after they left the Texans. Which ones would you pick to start for the Texans today and block for Mills?
 
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Earl34 said:
Exactly. So, the complaint is Watson was not going through progressions and not staying in the pocket while Nick Martin, Martinas Rankin, Julien Davenport, Kendall Lamm, Zach Fulton, Senio Kelemente, Jeff Allen, Breno Giacomini, Chris Clark, Max Scharping, Tytus Howard and Xavier Su'a-Filo were blocking for him and being coached by Devlin?

Out of curiosity. Besides Howard, from the players I listed, based on their performances with the Texans and after they left the Texans. Which ones would you pick to start for the Texans today and block for Mills?
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Tytus has the best chance of success b/c OB, Kelly, and Devlin pretty much destroyed the rest and he’s been free of them for 2 seasons. Howard will get his final chance (last year of contract) to secure his Texans future with the best coaches he’s ever had at the helm in Lovie, Pep, and Warhop and the fact that they named him RT out of the gate.
 
Earl34 said:
Exactly. So, the complaint is Watson was not going through progressions and not staying in the pocket while Nick Martin, Martinas Rankin, Julien Davenport, Kendall Lamm, Zach Fulton, Senio Kelemente, Jeff Allen, Breno Giacomini, Chris Clark, Max Scharping, Tytus Howard and Xavier Su'a-Filo were blocking for him and being coached by Devlin?

Out of curiosity. Besides Howard, from the players I listed, based on their performances with the Texans and after they left the Texans. Which ones would you pick to start for the Texans today and block for Mills?
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Depends, can I have them right after they were drafted or after Devlin "coached" them?
 
I know this is pointless. But, based on on-field performance. I really don't know how any objective observer can watch this guy talk about reading defenses and think that he wasn't or couldn't read defenses or just bailing out of the pocket after one read.

 
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Mangler said:
Russell Wilson is NOT a run first QB. (In my opinion) He’s not afraid to operate from the pocket, but has the speed/athleticism to make guys miss and run for yardage if there’s no one to throw to. He doesn’t panick when the pocket collapses. Watson is the closest to Wilson, but not quite the same style. Guys like RG3, Kancernick, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray (to an extent) are examples of styles that while flashy wont get you a ring in the NFL. Unless you have a great defense like the Broncos in 2015 of course.
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Lol….this is how i know that alot of y’all dont watch the league at large and/or really understand ball…and others are just pumping trash narratives & doubling down on stupid statements.

The 2 years the Seahawks went to the SB, Russell Wilson rushed the ball a minimum of 100 times each year. The 2nd year he actually rushed it over 100 times for 849 yds. To put that into perspective, it landed him inside the top20 of the entire league in rush yards despite half the attempts of most of the guys ahead of him….& at the time, it was also a TOP 5 all time rushing season for a qb. That isnt just making guys miss and scrambling when there’s noone to throw it to; that’s a run based offense centered around him and Lynch both actively running it on designed runs. That’s him 1 read & im out. & its not like he was killing it passing the ball. he didnt pass for 3500 yards in either of those seasons.

So how in the hell can you not consider him a run 1st qb but consider DW4 one when he has never had a season where he rushed over 100 times like Wilson, nor any season anywhere close to Wilson’s 2014 season of 849 yds? You guys are just grasping at straws jumping and contorting to make a distinction in their games that isnt there.

True, Wlison’s style WAS different…even back then he knew how to slide & get out of bounds. He also wasnt fighting for every yard & taking big hits…like a Jackson or a Newton…his runs weren’t as dynamic as either of those guys either…….but he was very much a run 1st qb back then. Just b/c he eventually evolved from that doesnt change the fact that he was exactly the thing y’all claim cant win a SB in his 1st 4 seasons. He proved all that wrong.
 
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Earl34 said:
I know this is pointless. But, based on on-field performance. I really don't know how any objective observer can watch this guy talk about reading defenses and think that he wasn't or couldn't read defenses or just bailing out of the pocket after one read.

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I think it's been so long since we've seen him play that people forget how good he was on the field. There is a reason Cleveland was willing to give up so much draft capital and guaranteed money. Watching his highlights, he was electric. Sucks that it'll be a long, long time before we see such a dynamic talent at the QB position in H-town.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol….this is how i know that alot of y’all dont watch the league at large and/or really understand ball…and others are just pumping trash narratives & doubling down on stupid statements.

The 2 years the Seahawks went to the SB, Russell Wilson rushed the ball a minimum of 100 times each year. The 2nd year he actually rushed it over 100 times for 849 yds. To put that into perspective, it landed him inside the top20 of the entire league in rush yards despite half the attempts of most of the guys ahead of him….& at the time, it was also a TOP 5 all time rushing season for a qb. That isnt just making guys miss and scrambling when there’s noone to throw it to; that’s a run based offense centered around him and Lynch both actively running it on designed runs. That’s him 1 read & im out. & its not like he was killing it passing the ball. he didnt pass for 3500 yards in either of those seasons.

So how in the hell can you not consider him a run 1st qb but consider DW4 one when he has never had a season where he rushed over 100 times like Wilson, nor any season anywhere close to Wilson’s 2014 season of 849 yds? You guys are just grasping at straws jumping and contorting to make a distinction in their games that isnt there.

True, Wlison’s style WAS different…even back then he knew how to slide & get out of bounds. He also wasnt fighting for every yard & taking big hits…like a Jackson or a Newton…his runs weren’t as dynamic as either of those guys either…….but he was very much a run 1st qb back then. Just b/c he eventually evolved from that doesnt change the fact that he was exactly the thing y’all claim cant win a SB in his 1st 4 seasons. He proved all that wrong.
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Say it loud for the people in the back. In that video of Russ cooking in the rain, he was on the 6 yd. Soon as he got the ball off the snap, he took off up the middle for like 20 yds. Yet dudes on here acting like the 24-28 yr old Russ is the 32 yr old russ we see today. Big Ben and Rodgers were historically known for holding the ball and taking sacks. They were off script alot playing backyard football, yet posters trying to make me unsee what I've witnessed. Its crazy
 
leebigeztx said:
I said 1st 3 rds. We all know you can get backs and wrs in the 2nd and 3rd rds easy. Look at the Blackock draft and who went after him. I know your feelings on Watson, it's cool. I respect your perception even if I don't agree.
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Agreed

And know that I respect your perception too, even though I don't agree.

BTW, the game has become much more of a passing league since Wilson was drafted in 2012.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed

And know that I respect your perception too, even though I don't agree.

BTW, the game has become much more of a passing league since Wilson was drafted in 2012.
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That's why I like Lovie, but the comment of being a running football team isn't going to make it. He's inherently a coach who like to play it close to the vest. The closest we've seen recently to winning as a running football team has been the Titans. Taylor was a beast last year and they missed the playoffs. So did the Browns and Vikings with their awesome running games. Your qb has to make plays even when you can't run the ball.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1563307299573080064
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NFL senior advisor Rita Smith on Deshaun Watson: “I feel like he’s playing us”
Posted by Mike Florio on August 26, 2022, 10:00 PM EDT


In the eight days since Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson: (1) accepted an 11-game suspension and $5 million fine; (2) issued a statement accepting accountability for his decisions; and (3) promptly proclaimed his innocence at a press conference, the NFL hasn’t had much if anything to say about Watson’s lack of remorse.

On Friday, an advisor hired amid the Ray Rice fiasco spoke out, aggressively, about Watson’s attitude.

“I feel like he’s playing us,” NFL senior adviser on matters of domestic violence and sexual assault Rita Smith told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He’s saying exactly what he thinks he needs to say to get on the field again. He’s not thinking strategically at all about. ‘Did I cause harm to other people?’ He’s not questioning any of his behaviors at all. He’s absolutely certain from that last statement: ‘I’ve done nothing wrong. This is all about people trying to get at me, and I just want to go play ball.'”

Smith believes that Watson’s refusal to accept responsibility sets the stage for ongoing misbehavior.

“That energy is not good for future reoffending,” Smith told Cabot. “That that purports to me that he’s still a danger to people, because he’s done absolutely no self-reflection that I can tell. You don’t have that many violations reported from somebody who’s not doing anything wrong. . . . He’s doing something wrong in those [massage] sessions. He’s doing something inappropriate in those [massage] sessions. So he needs to figure out what that is and how he can stop it so that nobody gets hurt in that process.”

Part of the problem, as Smith sees it, is that Watson is surrounded by agents and lawyers who blindly support him, bolstering his position that he’s done nothing wrong.

“He’s put around himself people who will carry him forward no matter what decision he makes and that’s dangerous,” Smith told Cabot. “It’s dangerous for Deshaun Watson as well. He can change, but not if there are people around him saying, ‘Yeah, she’s just after your money’ and ‘You paid all that money and it still didn’t make any difference.’ He needs to rid himself of those people, because they’re not serving him well.”

They haven’t been serving him well from the get go. An effort to settle the claims of Ashley Solis was rebuffed, setting the stage for her lawsuit and 23 others. A stubborn insistence by Watson’s camp that a potential settlement of the claims in April 2021 not include a confidentiality provision resulted in a missed opportunity to end the cases fairly quickly. Along the way, lawyer Rusty Hardin has declared that all of the Watson accusers are lying.

No, Watson has not been served well. He needs someone to speak hard truths to him. Hopefully, that will happen through counseling. If he refuses to accept and heed the things he’ll hear, he shouldn’t be reinstated for Week 13 at Houston — or at any point until he stops standing on his innocence and starts embracing strategies for understanding how these issues arose, and how to avoid them in the future.

******************************************************************

Watson has been "surrounded by agents and lawyers who blindly support him, bolstering his position that he's done nothing wrong" because they are all [let's not forget the Browns owners in this list] more concerned about "winning," keeping their gravy train going and looking good in their own professions and the public...............letting their "sick" client remain "sick"..............teaching their "sick" client to play his sick game better................while promoting their client's "sickness" to pursue new unsuspecting casualties.
 
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