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Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

Thumbs up or down on Tom Savage at 4.135

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    Votes: 112 83.6%

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    Votes: 22 16.4%
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thunderkyss said:
I don't think the pressure of the home crowd influenced his decision as much as the pressure from the owner.
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we+have+a+winer.jpg

yessirrr...
 
All the QBs seem to like the offense and each have positives so preseason should give us some idea of what they have learned. That is long time to wait.
 
thunderkyss said:
Then let me throw out the Manning & Marino examples.

The fact that Bret didn't go in his final 14 years doesn't say as much about him but the team/coaches he played on/for. Winning is a team game, as important as the QB position is, he's not bigger than the team.

As fans, we like to look at the QB, & put him on a pedestal. But Brett won more games than he lost with his gunslinger lack of self discipline.
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Favre cost his team much more than Manning or Marino ever did. I'm not a Favre fan though, so I'm sure I'm biased.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think the pressure of the home crowd influenced his decision as much as the pressure from the owner.
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I would not be surprised if pressure from the owner was a result of the massive adoration by local fans for Keenum.

McNair doesn't live in a bubble. He listens to Vandermeer's shows.
 
Double Barrel said:
I would not be surprised if pressure from the owner was a result of the massive adoration by local fans for Keenum.

McNair doesn't live in a bubble. He listens to Vandermeer's shows.
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This is kind of what i meant. Fans ultimately pay to come & see these games. It's not at all out of the realm of possibilty that McNair's decision was greatly influenced by the fans.
 
Was listening to LZ this morning and he said that he heard that the Texans were offered a later draft pick in this last draft for Yates but we didn't take whoever it was up on it. Take that for what it's worth but I'd think Yates is more of a QB for this system than Keenum is so I can see Keenum being the odd man out.
 
Double Barrel said:
I would not be surprised if pressure from the owner was a result of the massive adoration by local fans for Keenum.

McNair doesn't live in a bubble. He listens to Vandermeer's shows.
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I think that was a big reason for it. And I think it was part of the reason Kubiak was fired in season (which some people said would never happen).

That last game Kubiak coached showed a lack of discipline...It looked like the team had quit...and then Kubiak pulled Case again to put Schaub in...

I think McNair wanted to give the fans a reason to be enthusiastic and I also think he believed Case had the highest upside of the QB's on the roster so he wanted to give him the reigns at the time.
 
TheIronDuke said:
Was listening to LZ this morning and he said that he heard that the Texans were offered a later draft pick in this last draft for Yates but we didn't take whoever it was up on it. Take that for what it's worth but I'd think Yates is more of a QB for this system than Keenum is so I can see Keenum being the odd man out.
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I can't see any scenario where by either Keenum or Yates is the odd man out. Unless for some strange reason they ditch Fitzbeard, which I think is unlikely but still possible. DocSavage is the only one with a sure job this year.
 
Thorn said:
I can't see any scenario where by either Keenum or Yates is the odd man out. Unless for some strange reason they ditch Fitzbeard, which I think is unlikely but still possible. DocSavage is the only one with a sure job this year.
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This is going to be an interesting pre-season...For several reasons...

I can't wait to see the position battles...
 
Thorn said:
I can't see any scenario where by either Keenum or Yates is the odd man out. Unless for some strange reason they ditch Fitzbeard, which I think is unlikely but still possible. DocSavage is the only one with a sure job this year.
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I'm not sure they're going to want to carry 4 QB's. The point LZ made is that we'll be running with 4 TE's which is more than we're used to and he even questioned if we'd be using even 3 QB's. I think Savage and Fitzpatrick are sure things and Keenum vs Yates for QB3.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I'm not sure they're going to want to carry 4 QB's. The point LZ made is that we'll be running with 4 TE's which is more than we're used to and he even questioned if we'd be using even 3 QB's. I think Savage and Fitzpatrick are sure things and Keenum vs Yates for QB3.
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Carry four QBs on the 53 man roster? Has anyone ever done that before?

EDIT: Ha! The answer to that is yes.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000237117/article/redskins-jets-raiders-carrying-four-qbs-on-roster
 
Thorn said:
Carry four QBs on the 53 man roster? Has anyone ever done that before?
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Not that I can think of which is why I was saying that somebody would have to be the odd man out between Yates and Keenum. Fitz is guaranteed as is Savage. I can't stand Yates personally and would much prefer Keenum but if the rumor is true that we were offered a late pick for Yates and we didn't take it then maybe OB likes something he sees in Yates.
 
TheIronDuke said:
Not that I can think of which is why I was saying that somebody would have to be the odd man out between Yates and Keenum. Fitz is guaranteed as is Savage. I can't stand Yates personally and would much prefer Keenum but if the rumor is true that we were offered a late pick for Yates and we didn't take it then maybe OB likes something he sees in Yates.
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I'm not a big yates fan either although i do like his calm cool demeanor in the huddle/game/pocket
 
TheIronDuke said:
Not that I can think of which is why I was saying that somebody would have to be the odd man out between Yates and Keenum. Fitz is guaranteed as is Savage. I can't stand Yates personally and would much prefer Keenum but if the rumor is true that we were offered a late pick for Yates and we didn't take it then maybe OB likes something he sees in Yates.
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Based on what Fitz is being paid, i agree with the bolded & think that he's the odd's on favorite to start despite all the hoola about it being open competition. The only thing that's open imo is the #2 spot for Keenum or TJ. I think BoB wants to keep Savage in the 3rd spot to let him learn and the only way he inserts him this year is if the top 2 guys get hurt and/or he plays so well in preseason that he force BoB to start him. Think Harbaugh & Kaepernick here.
 
Mr teX said:
Based on what Fitz is being paid, i agree with the bolded & think that he's the odd's on favorite to start despite all the hoola about it being open competition. The only thing that's open imo is the #2 spot for Keenum or TJ. I think BoB wants to keep Savage in the 3rd spot to let him learn and the only way he inserts him this year is if the top 2 guys get hurt and/or he plays so well in preseason that he force BoB to start him. Think Harbaugh & Kaepernick here.
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I just don't see that happening. I see Case and TJ cut and we're rolling with the Amish Rifle and Savage. I really hate to say that as I am a big fan of both Yates and Keenum, but this is a new coach that values different things than the last and has a completely different view of the offense. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's just my gut feeling right now.
 
Since we've signed Fitz, I figured we were going to run with:

*. Fitzpatrick
*. Whichever QB we drafted -- Savage
*. Either Yates or Keenum, unless neither of them took to the offense.


I figured the QB spot would be an open competition with Fitzpatrick the most likely Game 1 starter but with Savage being the strong preference. If Yates or Keenum can step up and change their minds, then they could sneak in and take that starter position.

And if it comes down to a situation where Savage isn't quite as good but is moderately close and has made huge strides over the course of the offseason, then he wins the job on growth potential.
 
Vinnie said:
I just don't see that happening. I see Case and TJ cut and we're rolling with the Amish Rifle and Savage. I really hate to say that as I am a big fan of both Yates and Keenum, but this is a new coach that values different things than the last and has a completely different view of the offense. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's just my gut feeling right now.
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No way are we cutting both. That would be stupid and we do need to carry 3 QBs. Both have started for us, one of them has even won us a playoff game, the other has shown plenty of promise. I do believe that OB has an open QB competition with 2 things being set: he is not going to cut Fitzpatrick or Savage, so both of them will be in the top3 of our QBs. I do believe either Yates or Keenum will be cut or tried to stashed on our PS. But the other one will be here next season. And why shouldn`t they? They are cheap, they know their teammates and the whole situation here and they both have proven at least something that should be good enough for a QB3 at least.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
This is going to be an interesting pre-season...For several reasons...

I can't wait to see the position battles...
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The question that's been rolling around in the back of my mind is:
When A.J. comes back (assuming he does), where is he on the depth chart?

Will O'Brien just hand A.J. the first string, WR1, spot after he missed so many teaching opportunities?? Or will he play hard ball (sorta) and make him earn his way back up the depth chart since all the guys who have been here be ahead of him in learning the new offense?

Thoughts
 
ObsiWan said:
The question that's been rolling around in the back of my mind is:
When A.J. comes back (assuming he does), where is he on the depth chart?

Will O'Brien just hand A.J. the first string, WR1, spot after he missed so many teaching opportunities?? Or will he play hard ball (sorta) and make him earn his way back up the depth chart since all the guys who have been here be ahead of him in learning the new offense?

Thoughts
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AJ's a made man at this point in his career. No way O'brien does that to him. matter of fact I think a big part of the conversations they've reportedly already had are O'brien being realistic with him about the situation but also empathizing with him about the direction of the franchise while letting him know, there will be a place for him if/when he decides to come back. "take all the time you need AJ....we'll be here and your spot will be here if/when you decide to come back.."
 
Mr teX said:
AJ's a made man at this point in his career. No way O'brien does that to him. matter of fact I think a big part of the conversations they've reportedly already had are O'brien being realistic with him about the situation but also empathizing with him about the direction of the franchise while letting him know, there will be a place for him if/when he decides to come back. "take all the time you need AJ....we'll be here and your spot will be here if/when you decide to come back.."
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I agree. I think O'Brien will use the Jimmy Johnson approach where he treats each player differently based on a variety of factors. It's not something that we are privy to, but I have little doubt that a player of AJ's stature garners a lot of respect.
 
ObsiWan said:
The question that's been rolling around in the back of my mind is:
When A.J. comes back (assuming he does), where is he on the depth chart?

Will O'Brien just hand A.J. the first string, WR1, spot after he missed so many teaching opportunities?? Or will he play hard ball (sorta) and make him earn his way back up the depth chart since all the guys who have been here be ahead of him in learning the new offense?

Thoughts
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Even in BoB made AJ "earn it", how long would it take? A week? A day? 15 minutes? :kitten:
 
Double Barrel said:
I would not be surprised if pressure from the owner was a result of the massive adoration by local fans for Keenum.

McNair doesn't live in a bubble. He listens to Vandermeer's shows.
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I think McNair saw what I saw. With Schaub in the game, we're going to screw up our chances for that #1 pick. With Case in the game, it was virtually assured we'd get that #1 pick.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I'm not sure they're going to want to carry 4 QB's. The point LZ made is that we'll be running with 4 TE's which is more than we're used to and he even questioned if we'd be using even 3 QB's. I think Savage and Fitzpatrick are sure things and Keenum vs Yates for QB3.
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I find that hard to believe, but not unbelievable. Yates favors Savage in a lot of ways, both of them remind me of Jay Cutler. While I'm not a big Cutler fan, he was a first rounder & most people put him in that "first rounder" talent category... still waiting on him to fulfill his potential.

Savage looks ready to go to me. His mechanics are flawless, he ran a pro system, he played relatively well for where he was in his career, & appears to be a born leader.

Since we signed Fitz, there was no doubt in my mind the plan was for Case to beat him out. Could just as easily be Yates in my mind.

Since we drafted Savage, I figured we're going with two QBs. Savage & one of the other three. Don't know which one will start, don't really think it matters. Fitz is the only one that is handicapped, I think because of his age. The only thing he brings to the table, imo, is the "be ready to play at any time, make the most of your opportunity" mentality. If Tj & Case show that they have the same type of outlook & work ethic... no reason to keep him.
 
thunderkyss said:
I find that hard to believe, but not unbelievable. Yates favors Savage in a lot of ways, both of them remind me of Jay Cutler. While I'm not a big Cutler fan, he was a first rounder & most people put him in that "first rounder" talent category... still waiting on him to fulfill his potential.

Savage looks ready to go to me. His mechanics are flawless, he ran a pro system, he played relatively well for where he was in his career, & appears to be a born leader.

Since we signed Fitz, there was no doubt in my mind the plan was for Case to beat him out. Could just as easily be Yates in my mind.

Since we drafted Savage, I figured we're going with two QBs. Savage & one of the other three. Don't know which one will start, don't really think it matters. Fitz is the only one that is handicapped, I think because of his age. The only thing he brings to the table, imo, is the "be ready to play at any time, make the most of your opportunity" mentality. If Tj & Case show that they have the same type of outlook & work ethic... no reason to keep him.
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'cept maybe that cap hit. Too lazy to look it up again now but I've posted it before. 4.9 mill rings a bell but like I said, I'm too lazy right now to look it up again.

I'm pretty sure he makes the roster.
 
drs23 said:
'cept maybe that cap hit. Too lazy to look it up again now but I've posted it before. 4.9 mill rings a bell but like I said, I'm too lazy right now to look it up again.

I'm pretty sure he makes the roster.
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$4M Dead Money hit with a $3.375M 2014 cap hit so it would cost us $625K to release him although we'd take the $4M hit to the cap this season.
 
drs23 said:
'cept maybe that cap hit. Too lazy to look it up again now but I've posted it before. 4.9 mill rings a bell but like I said, I'm too lazy right now to look it up again.

I'm pretty sure he makes the roster.
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Yup. I see about .0000000001% chance Fitz doesn't make the roster. They aren't paying $4 mil for him to attend training camp.
 
drs23 said:
'cept maybe that cap hit. Too lazy to look it up again now but I've posted it before. 4.9 mill rings a bell but like I said, I'm too lazy right now to look it up again.

I'm pretty sure he makes the roster.
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If $4.5M is more important than putting the best players on the Roster, then yeah... they may very well keep him.

But I don't see us keeping three QBs, not with the increase I expect in the number of TEs & OLmen we're going to carry.


Yeah, I'm saying he's not among the two best QBs on the team. They probably expected to carry Case & Fitz. But Savage came along, & Yates may end up beating both Fitz & Case. Things change. People adjust their plans.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree. I think O'Brien will use the Jimmy Johnson approach where he treats each player differently based on a variety of factors. It's not something that we are privy to, but I have little doubt that a player of AJ's stature garners a lot of respect.
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Perhaps you're right.
 
Bill O'Brien downplays possibility of Tom Savage starting

"I really think that it’s important that that guy learns in his first year," O’Brien said. "I think it’s very, very, very difficult to play quarterback as a rookie, especially in the first 6-8 weeks of the season in your first year. We’ve got veteran quarterbacks here… those guys are battling out for the starting job, and Tom’s in there, and he’s battling too, but hopefully Tom can come into this season and learn a lot, and run the scout team, and then go from there after this season."
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http://www.cardiachill.com/2014/6/2...pitt-football-pittsburgh-panthers-case-keenum
 
Playoffs said:
Originating article & podcast: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014...ing-psu-if-tom-savage-could-start-for-texans/
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Good stuff, as always, thanks Playoffs.

He also had plenty of good things to say about former Pitt QB and Texans 4th round pick Tom Savage, saying that he heard nothing but good things about Savage at Pitt and has seen so many great attributes in Savage, remarking that Savage’s car was in the parking lot as he pulled into the Texans facility shortly before 6:45 a.m. local time during the interview.
“We were impressed by his intelligence, his ability to communicate, his demeanor- I felt like he was a calm kid that was a competitive kid,” O’Brien said. “At the end of the day, we felt really good about where he was when we picked him, and we feel like he has come in here and he’s really worked extremely hard.”


...hopefully Tom can come into this season and learn a lot, and run the scout team, and then go from there after this season.
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If Savage ends up running the scout team that tells me he wasn't picked to be the future of the Texans at that position. If he ends up being our back up, we cut two of our current QBs & we bring another QB in to run the scout team, then that would tell me they drafted him to be our starting QB.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Good stuff, as always, thanks Playoffs.

​

If Savage ends up running the scout team that tells me he wasn't picked to be the future of the Texans at that position. If he ends up being our back up, we cut two of our current QBs & we bring another QB in to run the scout team, then that would tell me they drafted him to be our starting QB.
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Are you under the impression back up and running the scout team are mutually exclusive?
 
infantrycak said:
Are you under the impression back up and running the scout team are mutually exclusive?
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Pretty much. The back up imo should be learning the game plan & be prepared to come into the game & pick up the offense.

If I were OB & my plan was for Savage to be starting 2015, then I don't want him running the scout team.

Then again, from what I understand, the Cowboys felt really good about Romo his second season, but he was still third on their depth chart, the year they thought he might be ready, the promoted him to back up...

so I may have to rethink that.
 
thunderkyss said:
Pretty much. The back up imo should be learning the game plan & be prepared to come into the game & pick up the offense.

If I were OB & my plan was for Savage to be starting 2015, then I don't want him running the scout team.

Then again, from what I understand, the Cowboys felt really good about Romo his second season, but he was still third on their depth chart, the year they thought he might be ready, the promoted him to back up...

so I may have to rethink that.
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Quite a few teams only carry 2 QBs.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
But some of the time in those cases, a QB on the practice squad runs the scout team.
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All I am saying is there is no hard and fast rule.

But since we're on the topic I think it would be more useful for a QBs development to get a whole bunch of reps running the scout team (under whatever name on the roster/depth chart) rather than a handful running our O as a backup.
 
infantrycak said:
All I am saying is there is no hard and fast rule.

But since we're on the topic I think it would be more useful for a QBs development to get a whole bunch of reps running the scout team (under whatever name on the roster/depth chart) rather than a handful running our O as a backup.
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I agree, especially for a QB who has played so little football in the last 4 years.

I don't think O'Brien has any set in stone timeline on if or when Savage starts. He is going to try and develop him and see what he has.
 
GoCoogs said:
I agree, especially for a QB who has played so little football in the last 4 years.
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Sounds plausible... but how much coaching goes into identifying mistakes & correcting them on the scout team? I wouldn't think very much. Practice doesn't make perfect... perfect practice, know what I mean?
 
thunderkyss said:
Sounds plausible... but how much coaching goes into identifying mistakes & correcting them on the scout team? I wouldn't think very much. Practice doesn't make perfect... perfect practice, know what I mean?
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Again with a generalization. If someone they are trying to develop is running the scout team they are free to put as much coaching into them as they want. They are coaching the player as a member and investment of the Texans, not the scout team and some separate disposable unrelated entity.
 
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