Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

[DocBar]

Except heart and brains.
Two very important requirements for that position.

He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from, a HC/OC/GM to impress upon him the importance of being a football junkie and putting the time in, etc. Carr should've taken a lot of that on himself, but the FO coddled him.

Carr might've still been crap, but at least he would've had a fighting chance. The way it ended up playing out, he never did.

 

[thunderkyss]

He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from...

Like Ryan Fitzpatrick right?

 

[TexansFanatic]

He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from, a HC/OC/GM to impress upon him the importance of being a football junkie and putting the time in, etc. Carr should've taken a lot of that on himself, but the FO coddled him.

Do you know this for sure?

I would think Dom Capers, Chris Palmer, and Charley Casserly would have rubbed off on him by osmosis if nothing else. Say what you will about that brain trust but they all have Super Bowls in their resume and each of them knows and knew the kind of work it takes to achieve in the NFL.

My guess was always that Carr just didn't have a Hall-of-Fame career on his list of priorities. He was more interested in spending time with his family than in putting in the kind of hours necessary for Peyton Manning's kind of career.

But I could be wrong.

 

[DocBar]

Do you know this for sure?

I would think Dom Capers, Chris Palmer, and Charley Casserly would have rubbed off on him by osmosis if nothing else. Say what you will about that brain trust but they all have Super Bowls in their resume and each of them knows and knew the kind of work it takes to achieve in the NFL.

My guess was always that Carr just didn't have a Hall-of-Fame career on his list of priorities. He was more interested in spending time with his family than in putting in the kind of hours necessary for Peyton Manning's kind of career.

But I could be wrong.

Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.

 

[thunderkyss]

Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.

He had Tony Banks. Not the same as Drew Bledsoe, but guys like him were hard to come by in 2002.

The Texans failed Carr, but it wasn't because they didn't bring in a veteran QB. They let Carr play when it was clear that he did not know how to protect himself & they never got around to teaching him how to do that.

Kubiak worked wonders with him (imo) but it was too late & our gunslinger was gunshy by then. If McNair had hired Kubiak the first time, I think we'd all be happier Texans fans.

 

[TexansFanatic]

Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.

I don't dislike David Carr, but I don't respect him either.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that your success is commensurate to the work you put in.

A twelve year old kid with his first job at the ice cream parlor could tell you that.

I recall John McClain stating quite plainly in a radio interview early in Carr's career that Carr was not the textbook leader who is the first to show up in the morning and the last to leave at night.

That's when it was first clear to me that our golden boy wasn't earning his millions.

Even a 23 year old kid knows that being handed $50 million comes with some expectations.

To me it's almost like Carr stole that money by not putting in the hours and it should have been obvious to him that that's what was expected of him.

But, alas, this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'll hang up and listen...

 

[EllisUnit]

In those 11 games (or whatever it was way back then) Aikman was sacked 19 times (like Keenum) but only gave up 155 sack yards. He wasn't running the wrong way like Keenum. (201 sack yards on 19 sacks).

Some guys have the gnads to play QB in the NFL. Some people should stay home & take care of their cats.

I would say that is because Keenum was still trying to make things happen. Schaub could get sacked 10 times for 10 total yards due to the fetal position and that means squat.

 

[thunderkyss]

I would say that is because Keenum was still trying to make things happen. Schaub could get sacked 10 times for 10 total yards due to the fetal position and that means squat.

21 sacks for 162 yards & he won 2 games. & he made sht happen in that San Diego game.

& I'm not trying to pick on Keenum, just stating the facts. I've looked at several first time starting QBs trying to find one with similar sackyards as Keenum. FYI, it's not a list you want to see your favorite QB on.

I'm rooting for the kid, but I don't have my head in the sand. I'd rather see him start than Fitz. I like the connection he has with Andre. But c'mon...

 

[EllisUnit]

21 sacks for 162 yards & he won 2 games. & he made sht happen in that San Diego game.

& I'm not trying to pick on Keenum, just stating the facts. I've looked at several first time starting QBs trying to find one with similar sackyards as Keenum. FYI, it's not a list you want to see your favorite QB on.

Not saying he didn't make **** happen in that game cause he did. My point is Keenum never gave up on a play, call it good or bad but that is why he took so many sacks for such big losses. Not because he was scared to get hit. That was my whole point.

And i like Keenum but i think it will be Savage who gets the nod IMO

 

[thunderkyss]

My point is Keenum never gave up on a play, call it good or bad but that is why he took so many sacks for such big losses. Not because he was scared to get hit. That was my whole point.

If I'm a new head coach & that's what I see... not giving up on a play... I'm not very impressed with Case Keenum & I'm not expecting a whole lot from him. Can't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

 

[sandman]

If I'm a new head coach & that's what I see... not giving up on a play... I'm not very impressed with Case Keenum & I'm not expecting a whole lot from him. Can't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

That poor decision making gets mistaken for "heart" and "passion" for "trying to make something happen". Favre may be an HoFer, but he threw a ton of stupid INT's throughout his entire career because he was trying to force the action, extend plays, and hit the home run ball with every throw. A smart QB learns when it is the best decision to throw it away and not try to extend every play. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But it's smart football.

 

[infantrycak]

That poor decision making gets mistaken for "heart" and "passion" for "trying to make something happen". Favre may be an HoFer, but he threw a ton of stupid INT's throughout his entire career because he was trying to force the action, extend plays, and hit the home run ball with every throw. A smart QB learns when it is the best decision to throw it away and not try to extend every play. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But it's smart football.

And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).

 

[Marshall]

And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).

Excellent observation of both the game and the critics reaction to it.

 

[sandman]

And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).

I think it's a smart move by the QB when, seeing nothing good is going to happen and having a defensive player lining you up for a big hit, to get to the ground and avoid the contact. Why take the hit to just take the hit? And yeah, I think of that Denver game where Schaub loses part of his ear standing in to deliver the throw. His "going fetal" occurred a heck of a lot less than his taking shots to deliver a throw. That being said, there are times when Manning looks like he goes down a little too early. It's always awkward looking with him though so it's tough to say. Any time he does anything than stand straight up and step into a throw, it looks odd. He epitomizes the word "stiff".

Of course, Carr took that standing in the pocket thing to the stupid level and took hit after unnecessary hit. Tough, but stupid.

 

[Scooter]

That poor decision making gets mistaken for "heart" and "passion" for "trying to make something happen". Favre may be an HoFer, but he threw a ton of stupid INT's throughout his entire career because he was trying to force the action, extend plays, and hit the home run ball with every throw. A smart QB learns when it is the best decision to throw it away and not try to extend every play. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But it's smart football.

if case were to break the sacks and interceptions record with a bust in canton and a superbowl ring ... is that a bad thing? you're kind of arguing against yourself in this post. favre was THE gunslinger. reckless, usually dumb, cost himself some big games - but he sure won a lot of games and did win the big one. considering the sh1t-storm he got thrown into during his brief stretch, case actually had respectable or better numbers for a "rookie" - hardly what you'd expect from a chuck and duck qb.

to get back more towards the topic, keenum vs savage should be very interesting for their arms. as we've seen and is already a highlight during OTA's ... few greats can throw a better deep rain-maker than keenum. eyes closed, on the run, past double coverage - dude can float it in stride 50+yds down the field. on the other hand savage has the best arm in camp. that statement should make anyone blink when the others are veterans(ish), because arm strength/velocity is like every other aspect - it takes a big leap with age and pro training. we dont exactly have cannons on the roster, but if savage is already ahead of the pro's, how high is his ceiling?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I don't dislike David Carr, but I don't respect him either.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that your success is commensurate to the work you put in.

A twelve year old kid with his first job at the ice cream parlor could tell you that.

I recall John McClain stating quite plainly in a radio interview early in Carr's career that Carr was not the textbook leader who is the first to show up in the morning and the last to leave at night.

That's when it was first clear to me that our golden boy wasn't earning his millions.

Even a 23 year old kid knows that being handed $50 million comes with some expectations.

To me it's almost like Carr stole that money by not putting in the hours and it should have been obvious to him that that's what was expected of him.

But, alas, this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'll hang up and listen...

To me there were hints of the foundation was not stable and the Texans knew it .

1. Bringing his Dad to work must have gone over really well with the vets .
2. Drafting Dave Ragone in round 3 in 2003 makes me think they were trying to light a fire under Carr .
3. Bringing in Victor Riley at LT , possibly the worst LT in history , makes me think the teams brass , except for McNair , didn't think it mattered who played on the OL . A 1st grader could read Greek better than Carr could read a defense .
4. I think McNair got way to close to Carr and cost the Texans a shot a QBs in 04 and 05 .

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).

If they were playing poker they would be betting too much on bad hands .

 

[revan]

if case were to break the sacks and interceptions record with a bust in canton and a superbowl ring ... is that a bad thing? you're kind of arguing against yourself in this post. favre was THE gunslinger. reckless, usually dumb, cost himself some big games - but he sure won a lot of games and did win the big one. considering the sh1t-storm he got thrown into during his brief stretch, case actually had respectable or better numbers for a "rookie" - hardly what you'd expect from a chuck and duck qb.

to get back more towards the topic, keenum vs savage should be very interesting for their arms. as we've seen and is already a highlight during OTA's ... few greats can throw a better deep rain-maker than keenum. eyes closed, on the run, past double coverage - dude can float it in stride 50+yds down the field. on the other hand savage has the best arm in camp. that statement should make anyone blink when the others are veterans(ish), because arm strength/velocity is like every other aspect - it takes a big leap with age and pro training. we dont exactly have cannons on the roster, but if savage is already ahead of the pro's, how high is his ceiling?

This whole Savage having a cannon for an arm to me is overrated. It reminds of the show Playmakers ESPN had where their star QB well ill let you guys see for yourselves.

Skip to 19:47.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1CqPqy_Ic

 

[infantrycak]

This whole Savage having a cannon for an arm to me is overrated. It reminds of the show Playmakers ESPN had where their star QB well ill let you guys see for yourselves.

Skip to 19:47.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1CqPqy_Ic

Tin Cup - 7 iron challenge

 

[Scooter]

This whole Savage having a cannon for an arm to me is overrated. It reminds of the show Playmakers ESPN had where their star QB well ill let you guys see for yourselves.

Skip to 19:47.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1CqPqy_Ic

cute, but irrelevant. arm strength is a talent. that lob into the cart is an interception. both stafford and cutler are current proof that a cannon can make up for other deficiencies if you're working hard enough to be good at your craft. accuracy is a better focal point for your argument, and one of keenum's strengths when hitting swings and underneath routes - he's resulted a better 'catch and run' than yates or schaub because of his ability to lead receivers into space. if savage can pick that up, combined with his arm strength, it's a montana-esque game changer.

sports science diagrams a real world 5mph difference in velocity between a reception and interception ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXNMY3X62zI

edit: i dont necessarily mean you revan, but i hate when people confuse arm strength with "how far can he throw it?". random guy in the parking lot can wind up and toss the ball 55 yards. arm strength has ZERO to do with distance. arm strength is max velocity and the ability to reduce velocity - as well as change trajectory accordingly when needed. targeting a 15 yard back shoulder sideline pass. sending a rope into the endzone from 18 yards out across the middle. a hard line drive over the linebacker against a tampa 2. that's arm strength.

 

[sandman]

if case were to break the sacks and interceptions record with a bust in canton and a superbowl ring ... is that a bad thing? you're kind of arguing against yourself in this post. favre was THE gunslinger. reckless, usually dumb, cost himself some big games - but he sure won a lot of games and did win the big one. considering the sh1t-storm he got thrown into during his brief stretch, case actually had respectable or better numbers for a "rookie" - hardly what you'd expect from a chuck and duck qb.

to get back more towards the topic, keenum vs savage should be very interesting for their arms. as we've seen and is already a highlight during OTA's ... few greats can throw a better deep rain-maker than keenum. eyes closed, on the run, past double coverage - dude can float it in stride 50+yds down the field. on the other hand savage has the best arm in camp. that statement should make anyone blink when the others are veterans(ish), because arm strength/velocity is like every other aspect - it takes a big leap with age and pro training. we dont exactly have cannons on the roster, but if savage is already ahead of the pro's, how high is his ceiling?

Favre spent 20 years in the NFL, and only won one SB in his 5th year. Never made it back to the SB after his 6th year. That was 14 more years of trying and failing to get another one. He not only holds the all-time record for interceptions, but for sacks and fumbles as well. He was successful in the sense of winning games and getting to the playoffs in spite of his recklessness and lack of discipline.

To bring it back to CK... Favre was the exception, not the norm, and not one that I would want CK to try and emulate. I love the heart and passion, but not the 20 yard sacks. If he expects to legitimately be the starter on this team, he has to play smarter. Can he? Don't know. But I'm personally not going to make the assumption that because all of the other factors were not in his favor last year, that he probably can. Until he proves otherwise, he is not a starting QB in this league. Of course, right now none of the QB's on the roster are...

 

[Scooter]

let's not lose perspective, favre was the epitome of chaos, but he had 2 losing seasons in those 20 years - one of which was his final season. he only had 2 .500 seasons. that's 15 winning seasons.

 

[sandman]

let's not lose perspective, favre was the epitome of chaos, but he had 2 losing seasons in those 20 years - one of which was his final season. he only had 2 .500 seasons. that's 15 winning seasons.

I thought we wanted Super Bowls, not winning seasons.

 

[dalemurphy]

This whole Savage having a cannon for an arm to me is overrated. It reminds of the show Playmakers ESPN had where their star QB well ill let you guys see for yourselves.

Skip to 19:47.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1CqPqy_Ic

Arm strength is only one piece of the puzzle... and I agree that it is often overrated.

arm strength, quickness of release, mental processing, and footwork all work together to determine the size of the window a quarterback has to throw into- and, then it only matters to the extent that the QB is accurate.

My enthusiasm for Savage is based on the fact that we did not pay a premium for him and that he appears to have a strong arm, a quick release, solid footwork, and the elements of an accurate passer... Combine all of that with his story (which goes a long way to explain the holes in his game and suggests reason for significant improvement), his perspective regarding his problems in college, and confidence in the head coach to teach, and I am very excited about Savage's potential.

 

[76Texan]

cute, but irrelevant. arm strength is a talent. that lob into the cart is an interception. both stafford and cutler are current proof that a cannon can make up for other deficiencies if you're working hard enough to be good at your craft. accuracy is a better focal point for your argument, and one of keenum's strengths when hitting swings and underneath routes - he's resulted a better 'catch and run' than yates or schaub because of his ability to lead receivers into space. if savage can pick that up, combined with his arm strength, it's a montana-esque game changer.

sports science diagrams a real world 5mph difference in velocity between a reception and interception ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXNMY3X62zI

edit: i dont necessarily mean you revan, but i hate when people confuse arm strength with "how far can he throw it?". random guy in the parking lot can wind up and toss the ball 55 yards. arm strength has ZERO to do with distance. arm strength is max velocity and the ability to reduce velocity - as well as change trajectory accordingly when needed. targeting a 15 yard back shoulder sideline pass. sending a rope into the endzone from 18 yards out across the middle. a hard line drive over the linebacker against a tampa 2. that's arm strength.

I'll add something to arm stregth.

Mainly, you want to get the ball from point A to point B in the least amount of time.

1. Point B is the tricky part.
Sometimes, it's between the numbers of the receiver; sometimes it's up high, down low, to the outside furthest from the defender but still within the catching radius of the receiver; some time it's somewhere between two defenders, etc.

2. A QB may have a cannon of an arm and zip the ball from A to B in half a second might not do the best as another who needs .45 of a second if the time it takes him to identify the target and to get set to deliver the ball takes .1 second longer.

3. The time it takes to identify the target might be even more important as the sooner the QB is able to do that, the more time he can afford to identify danger as well.
He will also has a hair more time to get ready to deliver the ball before the pocket gets muddy, and to avoid the pass being tipped at the line and to keep safety help further from the target a little longer.

 

[76Texan]

Arm strength is only one piece of the puzzle... and I agree that it is often overrated.

arm strength, quickness of release, mental processing, and footwork all work together to determine the size of the window a quarterback has to throw into- and, then it only matters to the extent that the QB is accurate.

My enthusiasm for Savage is based on the fact that we did not pay a premium for him and that he appears to have a strong arm, a quick release, solid footwork, and the elements of an accurate passer... Combine all of that with his story (which goes a long way to explain the holes in his game and suggests reason for significant improvement), his perspective regarding his problems in college, and confidence in the head coach to teach, and I am very excited about Savage's potential.

I like his potential as well, but the mental part he needs to work on is the hardest part.
We've seen a lot of guys who weren't able to put it together.

It takes time.
I remember reading that Bill Walsh didn't let Montana to go to the fifth read until some three years after entering the league.

 

[thunderkyss]

Favre spent 20 years in the NFL, and only won one SB in his 5th year. Never made it back to the SB after his 6th year. That was 14 more years of trying and failing to get another one...

How long's it been since Brady won his last Super Bowl? I know he's won three to Favre's one, but if 14 years mean anything, what does 10 years mean?

 

[thunderkyss]

My enthusiasm for Savage is based on the fact that we did not pay a premium for him and that he appears to have a strong arm, a quick release, solid footwork, and the elements of an accurate passer... Combine all of that with his story (which goes a long way to explain the holes in his game and suggests reason for significant improvement), his perspective regarding his problems in college, and confidence in the head coach to teach, and I am very excited about Savage's potential.

I pretty much agree. He looks like a 1st rounder, without the production. The reason for that lack of production & the growth we hope he's gone through points to him being the steal of this draft. In my mind, it's like we got a first rounder who fell, not because of some drug problem, not because of some rape allegations, not because he took money he knew he shouldn't have, but because he was so danged arrogant that he taught himself a very valuable lesson.

& if it doesn't work out, eh... damn near a 5th round pick.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'll add something to arm stregth.

The main point, for me, about arm strength is that I now the QB won't always be able to set his feet, rotate his hips, & follow through on every throw.

A lot of the other things that people like about arm strength; throwing the ball 65 yards on a rope, rifling the ball into the flats, squeezing the ball into tight coverage... a smart QB can account for most of that, most of the time one way or another.

But getting that ball out 10-15 yards in the middle of the field with 300lb men at your feet & a 270 lb truck running through your back... arm strength helps.

 

[steelbtexan]

And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).

Of all of Schaub's faults toughness wasn't one of them. Schaub is a very tough guy. I've seen him look down the barrel take huge hits and deliver the ball.

 

[sandman]

How long's it been since Brady won his last Super Bowl? I know he's won three to Favre's one, but if 14 years mean anything, what does 10 years mean?

Brady has been in 5 Super Bowls. Most recently two years ago. Favre went to two back-to-back in his 5th and 6th years and never again. IMHO, he would have been there a lot more had he played with any level of discipline. But he sure was exciting!

 

[76Texan]

The main point, for me, about arm strength is that I now the QB won't always be able to set his feet, rotate his hips, & follow through on every throw.

A lot of the other things that people like about arm strength; throwing the ball 65 yards on a rope, rifling the ball into the flats, squeezing the ball into tight coverage... a smart QB can account for most of that, most of the time one way or another.

But getting that ball out 10-15 yards in the middle of the field with 300lb men at your feet & a 270 lb truck running through your back... arm strength helps.

If you can get the ball out before they get to you; yes, sure.
The thing is not all things are equal to all QBs,.

Like I said, I'm a Bill Walsh kind of guy, not a Jon Madden guy.

 

[steelbtexan]

I like his potential as well, but the mental part he needs to work on is the hardest part.
We've seen a lot of guys who weren't able to put it together.

It takes time.
I remember reading that Bill Walsh didn't let Montana to go to the fifth read until some three years after entering the league.

If Montana was playing behind the Texans OL last yr he wouldn't have gotten to his 2-3rd read much less his 5th read.

 

[Mr teX]

I pretty much agree. He looks like a 1st rounder, without the production. The reason for that lack of production & the growth we hope he's gone through points to him being the steal of this draft. In my mind, it's like we got a first rounder who fell, not because of some drug problem, not because of some rape allegations, not because he took money he knew he shouldn't have, but because he was so danged arrogant that he taught himself a very valuable lesson.

& if it doesn't work out, eh... damn near a 5th round pick.

“It is necessary ... for a man to go away by himself ... to sit on a rock ... and ask, 'Who am I, where have I been, and where am I going?”
― Carl Sandburg

Self-reflection can be a ***** sometimes..& moreso than his physical tools, his personal growth is what makes him the potential steal of this draft. Simply put, most guys Savage's age haven't faced adversity nor can they admit to mistakes they've made until it's too late...so when they get to the league and finally experience it, it breaks them in half........the talent level is irrelevant (see VY..Clarett...Russell etc).

& listening to Savage speak on his college career and time out of football, you can just tell that the guy spent alot of time self-reflecting. & in that regrad i'm fairly confident that Savage's personal growth is legit.

 

[silvrhand]

If Montana was playing behind the Texans OL last yr he wouldn't have gotten to his 2-3rd read much less his 5th read.

Disagree, most of those reads were pre snap, unlike the rest of the Houston offense.

 

[ObsiWan]

How long's it been since Brady won his last Super Bowl? I know he's won three to Favre's one, but if 14 years mean anything, what does 10 years mean?

Careful... Tom has been back to the "big game" twice since his last SB win. Brett only went back once.
So advantage Brady.

 

[ObsiWan]

If Montana was playing behind the Texans OL last yr he wouldn't have gotten to his 2-3rd read much less his 5th read.

Remember that RBs in Walsh's system had to be able to catch. If Montana's 1st or 2nd read was not there, it was time to dump off to the RB. And that possibly could have been done here last season if our RB who could catch and run (Foster) hadn't been down in the back most of the year.
We all know Ben Tate wasn't exactly known for having soft hands.

 

[thunderkyss]

If you can get the ball out before they get to you; yes, sure.
The thing is not all things are equal to all QBs,.

Like I said, I'm a Bill Walsh kind of guy, not a Jon Madden guy.

I'm not arguing your point. There are several reasons arm strength is important in addition to the most obvious.

 

[thunderkyss]

Careful... Tom has been back to the "big game" twice since his last SB win. Brett only went back once.
So advantage Brady.

Then let me throw out the Manning & Marino examples.

The fact that Bret didn't go in his final 14 years doesn't say as much about him but the team/coaches he played on/for. Winning is a team game, as important as the QB position is, he's not bigger than the team.

As fans, we like to look at the QB, & put him on a pedestal. But Brett won more games than he lost with his gunslinger lack of self discipline.

 

[ObsiWan]

Then let me throw out the Manning & Marino examples.

The fact that Bret didn't go in his final 14 years doesn't say as much about him but the team/coaches he played on/for. Winning is a team game, as important as the QB position is, he's not bigger than the team.

Couldn't agree more.

As fans, we like to look at the QB, & put him on a pedestal. But Brett won more games than he lost with his gunslinger lack of self discipline.

That's the media's doing in my opinion. And most of the great, unwashed fan base buys into it hook, line, & sinker.

And give me a tactically sharp, surgically precise QB like Brady, Montana, or Johnny U. over a gunslinger like Favre every day of the year.

Now I like to watch him on the other guy's team because sooner or later he's gonna give my team an opportunity that it probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

[DX-TEX]

Some interesting thoughts from Patrick Starr (patthestat Twitter) from stateofthetexans.com

The quarterback situation maybe "wide open" at the moment but by the end of Mandatory Mini-Camp the picture will be clearer. #Texans

The quarterback situation in Houston is taking shape quicker than most realize. #Texans

O'Brien's offensive system requires the QB to make throws from inside the pocket to every part of the field. Arm strength is tested.

At first I thought it was Savage he was referring to since everyone in the media is calling his arm a howitzer. But the I read his OTA recap for today:

http://www.stateofthetexans.com/blog/2014/05/28/texans-otas-day-2-review/

There is no about that T.J. Yates is the forgotten quarterback in this situation, but this offense is better suited for him. He has shown that he can make some NFL throws from the pocket and easily has the second best arm strength of the group behind rookie Tom Savage.

Yates looks much more confident on the field and it is showing with his early two days of work at OTAs. Quarterback coach George Godsey has been working hard with the quarterbacks and there is already a difference in his footwork and delivery of the football. There are some over looking Yates at the moment but he could be one to watch with a clean slate under this new coaching staff

TJ time?

 

[thunderkyss]

TJ time?

If Tj wins then it was truly a clean slate open competition. He's played less than Savage in the last 14 months.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[NCTexan]

TJ time?

I believe!

Go Heels!

 

[Mr teX]

If Tj wins then it was truly a clean slate open competition. He's played less than Savage in the last 14 months.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

He should've gotten more of an opportunity last year before Case got a look...but stupid ass Kubiak panicked and succumbed to the pressure of the home crowd.

people don't understand how difficult it is to perform well when you're coming off the bench with no 1st team reps all week....in his case, hardly no 1st team reps all year.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Some interesting thoughts from Patrick Starr (patthestat Twitter) from stateofthetexans.com



At first I thought it was Savage he was referring to since everyone in the media is calling his arm a howitzer. But the I read his OTA recap for today:

http://www.stateofthetexans.com/blog/2014/05/28/texans-otas-day-2-review/



TJ time?

I follow Starr on Twitter and enjoy reading his comments on practices. That said, he's about as bias as you can get when it comes to reporting anything Texans.

Just piggy-backin on your post due to mentioning Pat.

 

[Playoffs]

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...rvations/649fe340-f829-487c-b3e6-27460d05c9cd

Watching pass skelly late in practice with soon-to-be Texans Radio gameday colleagues Marc Vandermeer and Andre Ware, the former Heisman winner and I made a similar observation when rookie quarterback Tom Savage got his reps.

The ball didn’t hit the ground. Literally.

Andre noted how comfortable the former Pitt star was making his reads and going through his progressions. If that drill was a pop quiz, so to speak, he passed that portion with flying colors. There was no pass rush and it was just pass skelly, but he looked very much at ease finding open receivers and slinging the rock. Then, he completed each throw. This quarterback battle is just as wide open as Bill O’Brien said on Tuesday and Savage won’t sit idly by the next few months.

"Skelly" = skeleton = without offensive/defensive linemen.

 

[Thorn]

Some interesting thoughts from Patrick Starr (patthestat Twitter) from stateofthetexans.com



At first I thought it was Savage he was referring to since everyone in the media is calling his arm a howitzer. But the I read his OTA recap for today:

http://www.stateofthetexans.com/blog/2014/05/28/texans-otas-day-2-review/



TJ time?

In reality, I don't care whose time it is, as long as they win games for us.

Everyone here has their favorite, and mine's not TJ. But I also don't think anyone here really cares as long as the team is successful.

 

[Double Barrel]

I'm going to laugh my ass off if TJ Yates gets the starting job.

I doubt it happens, though. I think Savage will ultimately be the guy.

I might chuckle a little, though, if Yates gets the no. 2 spot.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I'm going to laugh my ass off if TJ Yates gets the starting job.

I doubt it happens, though. I think Savage will ultimately be the guy.

I might chuckle a little, though, if Yates gets the no. 2 spot.

Everything that people see at practice is different.

I am not as high on TJ in this offense as Pat is.

Though I knew of Savage's good and bad tape before he got here, it really is stunning how great his arm is. Just throws a gorgeous, effortless ball.

If they can coach him up, it should would be pretty. But he is behind right now just playbook wise. Hopefully will be able to catch up a ton by training camp.

 

[thunderkyss]

He should've gotten more of an opportunity last year before Case got a look...but stupid ass Kubiak panicked and succumbed to the pressure of the home crowd.

I don't think the pressure of the home crowd influenced his decision as much as the pressure from the owner.