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O'Brien gained respect

Earl34

Rookie
Bwhahaha hilarious. And you can stop trying to force your agenda of the offense being simplified.
Mariota came out of college with a similar skillset as Watson. He has been through four different OCs and not one of them thought of simplifying the offense for him and he would be performing at a top ten NFL QB level?

If all it takes to get a young QB to be successful is to cut the field in half, run their college offenses or run BOB’s “Big Dummy” version of his EP offense, we need to share this knowledge with the Bears, Titans, Bucs, Blake Bortles and every first round bust in NFL history.

You’re right. It’s freaking hilarious
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Mariota came out of college with a similar skillset as Watson. He has been through four different OCs and not one of them thought of simplifying the offense for him and he would be performing at a top ten NFL QB level?

If all it takes to get a young QB to be successful is to cut the field in half, run their college offenses or run BOB’s “Big Dummy” version of his EP offense, we need to share this knowledge with the Bears, Titans, Bucs, Blake Bortles and every first round bust in NFL history.

You’re right. It’s freaking hilarious

It is very clear dude just doesn't like Watson. So instead of calling him what he did a few weeks ago. Now we're simplifying things to help him out verses Bill Obrien actually setting his pride aside and running what he learnt in New England. What makes this even better IMO is now he can add Watson other strength to the EP equation. That is the threat of him taking off and picking up chunks of yards to keep the sticks moving or score TDs. But instead of them looking at that way, they're driving home this notion of us running Clemson's offense. As well as Watson not being able to run Bill O'BrienO' version of the EP. Something else might I add, every QB under Bill O'Brien as the Texans HC/OC couldn't run.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It is very clear dude just doesn't like Watson. So instead of calling him what he did a few weeks ago. Now we're simplifying things to help him out verses Bill Obrien actually setting his pride aside and running what he learnt in New England. What makes this even better IMO is now he can add Watson other strength to the EP equation. That is the threat of him taking off and picking up chunks of yards to keep the sticks moving or score TDs. But instead of them looking at that way, they're driving home this notion of us running Clemson's offense. As well as Watson not being able to run Bill O'BrienO' version of the EP. Something else might I add, every QB under Bill O'Brien as the Texans HC/OC couldn't run.
I don't dislike Watson and when you see Brady running RPO it will be the 1st time.

Did you go back and look at the Pats offense vs Clemson's offense and be honest which one looks more like the offense the Texans are currently running.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't give a damn about our record. If we don't make some serious noise in the playoffs this year I will still want O'Brian fired.
My thoughts exactly. I thought we'd get 12 wins before the season started & said as much. Not because I actually saw 12 wins on the schedule, but to make my point.

We can finish the season 14-2 & I still won't be happy if we are stomped in any postseason game. Including the Super Bowl.

We need to win. Or come dang close. & that's not to say I'm being unfair to O'Brien. But these embarrassing home losses is why we're here.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I don't dislike Watson and when you see Brady running RPO it will be the 1st time.

Did you go back and look at the Pats offense vs Clemson's offense and be honest which one looks more like the offense the Texans are currently running.

That's not a strength of Bradys so why would they run that? Adding that to our play book is a luxury.
1. It keeps the defensive dogs at bay. Now we're seeing defenders confused out there.
2. It opens up the the offense all across the board.
3. And we're winning. Lol heck yeah
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Mariota came out of college with a similar skillset as Watson. He has been through four different OCs and not one of them thought of simplifying the offense for him and he would be performing at a top ten NFL QB level?

If all it takes to get a young QB to be successful is to cut the field in half, run their college offenses or run BOB’s “Big Dummy” version of his EP offense, we need to share this knowledge with the Bears, Titans, Bucs, Blake Bortles and every first round bust in NFL history.

You’re right. It’s freaking hilarious
Just because one QB Watson is great at the system doesn't mean they all are. Mariotta. Harbaugh did essentially the same thing with Jackson, but I noticed that you left him out of the comparison. I'm comparing offenses not QBs.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That's not a strength of Bradys so why would they run that? Adding that to our play book is a luxury.
1. It keeps the defensive dogs at bay. Now we're seeing defenders confused out there.
2. It opens up the the offense all across the board.
3. And we're winning. Lol heck yeah
We're never going to agree

#3 is all that matters
 
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IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
My thoughts exactly. I thought we'd get 12 wins before the season started & said as much. Not because I actually saw 12 wins on the schedule, but to make my point.

We can finish the season 14-2 & I still won't be happy if we are stomped in any postseason game. Including the Super Bowl.

We need to win. Or come dang close. & that's not to say I'm being unfair to O'Brien. But these embarrassing home losses is why we're here.
So Billy makes it to the SB with the Texans this year but fails to win that game you still want him fired ?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
12-4 with that schedule

Sweep the division after seeing the Colts run the ball down the Texans throat in the playoffs?

Playing the Chiefs/Pats/Baltimore/Chargers?

Man you have high expectations.

Gravy?


Yes , sweep the division.

They are clearly the best team in the division. They have the best QB in the division , best WR group in the entire league and a very good front 7 on the defense.

The rest of the division are missing QB's - Luck retires , Foles gets hurt , Mariota and Tannehill are mediocre at best.

Yes 12-4 , they went 11-5 last year and we just watched them spend multiple first round picks to fix their OL problems.

12-4 … I expected losses to the Saints , Chiefs and Pats …. and possibly another along the way.


What I don't expect is that they beat the Pats , Chiefs or Ravens when it matters most - Mainly because of the coaching / playcalling / clock management / challenges / wasted time outs.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
So Billy makes it to the SB with the Texans this year but fails to win that game you still want him fired ?

If they get blown out or he makes coaching errors - absolutely.

Clock management - not my job!
Poor use of time outs.
Bad challenges.
Dumb play calling ?
Bunches of penalties
A poor game plan.
Failure to make adjustments.

In that case he isn't part of the solution , he's part of the problem. Yeah , I'd want him gone.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If they get blown out or he makes coaching errors - absolutely.

Clock management - not my job!
Poor use of time outs.
Bad challenges.
Dumb play calling ?
Bunches of penalties
A poor game plan.
Failure to make adjustments.

In that case he isn't part of the solution , he's part of the problem. Yeah , I'd want him gone.
Yet you love Lil Shanny
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think that instead of making changes to the play, he's doing a better job pre-snap of communicating what he sees so the other guys do what he expects... an important part of the EP offense
This.

Plus an RPO & triple option thrown in for good measure. This is not Clemson's offense, unless you think Baltimore is running Clemson's offense.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Because the offense has been simplified. Did the QB/WR's suddenly get on the same page or are they using a different offense?
I'm with JB. Every week this offense is together the WRs and Watson are starting to react to defensive cues the same way.
Just like you said it would take the O-line at least six weeks to perform as a unit, it's not that different for the QB/RBs/WRs/TEs. After six weeks together they're starting to be a real unit.

I don't think the plays have changed/simplified. I think the offensive players are making better decisions based on what they see at the line.
 
Once you realize SteelB has an agenda he needs to protect and will never change his mind, no matter how wrong he constantly is and how much he always contradicts himself... you won't engage in debates with him and life on TT is much easier.
Nah Steel is fine to debate. You just view it like a debate team in college where one side is given a point that they have to argue and defend no matter how wrong or stupid it is. I remember one time my team was given the point of "The world is flat" by the time we were done a couple of people were actually questioning it. People go into a debate thinking they are going to change the other person's mind, they're not and that's not the point anyway. The point is to sharpen your argument and to provide a different viewpoint for outside observers.
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
So Billy makes it to the SB with the Texans this year but fails to win that game you still want him fired ?
If we get utterly embarrassed in said SB, then yes. If we are hanging in there with a chance to win and we don't, then let's see what next year brings with OB.

Now, realistically I don't see a scenario where O'Brien gets fired at all, unless we have an epic collapse the remainder of the season, and I'm curious to see what O'Brien and whoever we may actually get as GM can do with the lack of 1st round draft capital we have over the next 2 years and some big contract decisions that need to be made.

However, an 11-5 or 12-4 record means nothing to me when you get embarrassed in the playoffs. He's seemed to figure it out philosophically scheme wise over the last 2 weeks. Will that continue, or will we revert to his mean?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Once you realize SteelB has an agenda he needs to protect and will never change his mind, no matter how wrong he constantly is and how much he always contradicts himself... you won't engage in debates with him and life on TT is much easier.
Whatever float your boat

If you cant see the differences in the offensive schemes Clemso/EP then there's really nothing left to debate. Go back and check out the Clemson offense and the offense the Earhardt ran when Phil Simms was his QB and get back to me. lso look at how many times Watson only scans 1/2 the field the last 2 weeks vs the entire field in the traditional EP offense.

Agenda? I dont have an agenda, I'm just happy BOB changed the offense to better fit Watson's skillset and you should be too instead of making a post like this one.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If we get utterly embarrassed in said SB, then yes. If we are hanging in there with a chance to win and we don't, then let's see what next year brings with OB.

Now, realistically I don't see a scenario where O'Brien gets fired at all, unless we have an epic collapse the remainder of the season, and I'm curious to see what O'Brien and whoever we may actually get as GM can do with the lack of 1st round draft capital we have over the next 2 years and some big contract decisions that need to be made.

However, an 11-5 or 12-4 record means nothing to me when you get embarrassed in the playoffs. He's seemed to figure it out philosophically scheme wise over the last 2 weeks. Will that continue, or will we revert to his mean?
They're most likely not going to make the SB this yr. They have to get some experience. But they are contenders and if things break right (Injuries etc..) they have their best chance at making a SB since 2011.

It looks like the Saints are the best NFC team and you saw the Texans can go toe to toe with them. But I dont think they can beat the Pats this yr. The Pats defense is really good this yr and Brady is Brady.

As far as not having a 1st rd pick next yr, if they want a 1st rd pick and think they're 1-2 players away from a SB win, they have the draft capital to trade up into the 1st rd if they need too.
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
They're most likely not going to make the SB this yr. They have to get some experience. But they are contenders and if things break right (Injuries etc..) they have their best chance at making a SB since 2011.

It looks like the Saints are the best NFC team and you saw the Texans can go toe to toe with them. But I dont think they can beat the Pats this yr. The Pats defense is really good this yr and Brady is Brady.

As far as not having a 1st rd pick next yr, if they want a 1st rd pick and think they're 1-2 players away from a SB win, they have the draft capital to trade up into the 1st rd if they need too.
Oh I know....I was just replying to the stated post about getting to the SB and losing. If we get to the AFCCG against the Pats and play them well, then that's fine as well. I'm just tired of everyone pointing out our record last year as if we didn't get utterly exposed by the Colts as to being a fraud with a good record.

I'm aware we have the draft capital to move up, but then you're giving up 3 or more picks to get 1.

We play the Pats on 12/1 and that will show us if we are really ready to compete with the big boys.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Oh I know....I was just replying to the stated post about getting to the SB and losing. If we get to the AFCCG against the Pats and play them well, then that's fine as well. I'm just tired of everyone pointing out our record last year as if we didn't get utterly exposed by the Colts as to being a fraud with a good record.

I'm aware we have the draft capital to move up, but then you're giving up 3 or more picks to get 1.

We play the Pats on 12/1 and that will show us if we are really ready to compete with the big boys.
You probably will only have to give up a 2nd/3rd/5th to get into the bottom of the 1st. that would leave you with a 3rd/two 4ths/6th/7th. Including 4-1 which is like another low 3rd.

They're still in great shape in the 2020 draft even without a 1st. Now 2021 is going to be like the 2018 draft. Hopefully they can find another JR in the 3rd like in 2018.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
You don't always need to have the experience to get to the SB. Have we not been watching the NFL. The Eagles didn't have the experience like that a few years ago. The Rams didn't have that type of experience either. The Jaguars was a game away from making to the SB and they did not have any type of experience.

So where are we getting this notion of needing experience from?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Oh I know....I was just replying to the stated post about getting to the SB and losing. If we get to the AFCCG against the Pats and play them well, then that's fine as well. I'm just tired of everyone pointing out our record last year as if we didn't get utterly exposed by the Colts as to being a fraud with a good record.

I'm aware we have the draft capital to move up, but then you're giving up 3 or more picks to get 1.

We play the Pats on 12/1 and that will show us if we are really ready to compete with the big boys.

As of right now we're making great strides in the right direction. No one had us beating the mighty Chiefs in their home stadium this past Sunday. We're 4-2 in which has exceeded my expectations at this point in the season.

The Colts will be another test this Sunday.
 
Here's the thing, people talk about how we didn't play the Chiefs at their best and that is true but honestly I don't think it would have mattered. This came down to a game plan between Bill O'Brien vs Andy Reid and O'Brien won. Whether it was him or Watson or Kelly or whoever the offense knew that the key to beating the Chiefs was don't let Mahomes on the field. Mahomes was only on the field for less than two minutes of play time in the fourth quarter. I don't care how great a player is if they never get on the field then they can't do anything. The plan was to do long drives, something else we have never seen from BoB, and control the clock. In a real world situation they followed that plan about as well as could be expected. Mahomes could have been 100% and that plan still would have worked though we might have needed Fuller and Hop to catch those passes.
 

frethack

Rookie
Whatever float your boat

If you cant see the differences in the offensive schemes Clemso/EP then there's really nothing left to debate. Go back and check out the Clemson offense and the offense the Earhardt ran when Phil Simms was his QB and get back to me. lso look at how many times Watson only scans 1/2 the field the last 2 weeks vs the entire field in the traditional EP offense.

Agenda? I dont have an agenda, I'm just happy BOB changed the offense to better fit Watson's skillset and you should be too instead of making a post like this one.
There isnt always a need to scan the entire field. Most of the time, Brady knows where he is going with the football before the snap. We are starting to see that with Watson. Also, you may be running different concepts to beat man or zone on each side of the formation. In that case it may only be necessary to scan half the field depending on the coverage. There are a lot of reasons that any QB might only need to read half the field, and most (if not all) QBs arent reading the entire field on every play anyway. Watson can and does incorporate full field reads, though I would expect that he is a little slower getting through his progression considering his experience level. That will become quicker for him as well with a little time.

You keep referring back to the version of the EP that Phil Simms ran. You do realize that Simms last played in 1993? Id argue that there isnt a team running the EP in the league that looks anything close to Simms offense. Same with teams running the WCO. Are you insinuating that the 2019 Patriots offense is similar to the 1993 Giants?

The 2019 Patriots dont even look like the 2007 Patriots...or the 2013 Patriots
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You don't always need to have the experience to get to the SB. Have we not been watching the NFL. The Eagles didn't have the experience like that a few years ago. The Rams didn't have that type of experience either. The Jaguars was a game away from making to the SB and they did not have any type of experience.

So where are we getting this notion of needing experience from?
WTF
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
There isnt always a need to scan the entire field. Most of the time, Brady knows where he is going with the football before the snap. We are starting to see that with Watson. Also, you may be running different concepts to beat man or zone on each side of the formation. In that case it may only be necessary to scan half the field depending on the coverage. There are a lot of reasons that any QB might only need to read half the field, and most (if not all) QBs arent reading the entire field on every play anyway. Watson can and does incorporate full field reads, though I would expect that he is a little slower getting through his progression considering his experience level. That will become quicker for him as well with a little time.

You keep referring back to the version of the EP that Phil Simms ran. You do realize that Simms last played in 1993? Id argue that there isnt a team running the EP in the league that looks anything close to Simms offense. Same with teams running the WCO. Are you insinuating that the 2019 Patriots offense is similar to the 1993 Giants?

The 2019 Patriots dont even look like the 2007 Patriots...or the 2013 Patriots
You asked about the EP system. I will ask you to look at any present team currently running the EP that looks like BOB's current offense. I pointed to Simms because I want you to look at the offenses the Pats/Saints run and tell me how they currently look anything like the offense the Texans are currently running. They look more like the offense the Ravens are running. Are the Ravens currently running the EP system?
 

Earl34

Rookie
Whatever float your boat

If you cant see the differences in the offensive schemes Clemso/EP then there's really nothing left to debate. Go back and check out the Clemson offense and the offense the Earhardt ran when Phil Simms was his QB and get back to me. lso look at how many times Watson only scans 1/2 the field the last 2 weeks vs the entire field in the traditional EP offense
Why on earth would anyone go back and watch Phil Simms running the EP offense? The first thing you would notice is that it’s a different era. Simms was probably operating under center with 2 RBs the majority of time and with a good OL throwing deep downfield passes. Simms was not using a quick passing game abd shotgun formations like today’s offenses.

Wouldn’t the comparison be the Patriots version of the EP offense? You probably don’t want to compare the Patriots’ EP offense because you know there isn’t much scanning of the field when Brady is getting the ball out in two seconds or less.
 

frethack

Rookie
You asked about the EP system. I will ask you to look at any present team currently running the EP that looks like BOB's current offense. I pointed to Simms because I want you to look at the offenses the Pats/Saints run and tell me how they currently look anything like the offense the Texans are currently running. They look more like the offense the Ravens are running. Are the Ravens currently running the EP system?
I think I understand where youre coming from. The Ravens are not running the EP, but the EP is not a certain set of plays, its just a way to call out those plays without getting into convoluted WCO verbiage where you individually assign most of the routes. You could call Kubiaks WCO scheme with the EP system if you wanted to. The only major difference would be what is said in the huddle.

The reason our scheme might look more like the Ravens than the Pats is because our QB can beat you with his brain, his arm AND his legs. There are just no other teams running the EP system that have a QB with Watsons skill set.
 

Earl34

Rookie
You asked about the EP system. I will ask you to look at any present team currently running the EP that looks like BOB's current offense. I pointed to Simms because I want you to look at the offenses the Pats/Saints run and tell me how they currently look anything like the offense the Texans are currently running. They look more like the offense the Ravens are running. Are the Ravens currently running the EP system?
Jackson has double digit carries in 3 out of 6 games. Unless you want Watson to get hurt, no one is asking him to run 10 times a game. Until Watson is running around like Jackson, it’s silly to compare the Ravens offense to the Texans.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
C
They're most likely not going to make the SB this yr. They have to get some experience.

What you mean wtf . Again did the Eagles have the experience when they won the SB?

So we can very well make it to the SB this year.

It's not a stretch at all.
The Eagles did, Look at their roster and compare it to the Texans experience wise. I could go thru the offense of the Eagles alone and prove a point but I'm not going to waste my time. Let me start with the skill guys Ajay/T. Smith/Jeffery/Ertz/Foles and get back to me. While you're at it why dont you look at their OL for the SB yr. Tell me more about Brooks.

You're better than this.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Jackson has double digit carries in 3 out of 6 games. Unless you want Watson to get hurt, no one is asking him to run 10 times a game. Until Watson is running around like Jackson, it’s silly to compare the Ravens offense to the Texans.
Are you just looking at carries or at styles of offense? Did you check out those 2 offenses and tell me which one looks most similar or did you just look at the stats?
 

Earl34

Rookie
I think I understand where youre coming from. The Ravens are not running the EP, but the EP is not a certain set of plays, its just a way to call out those plays without getting into convoluted WCO verbiage where you individually assign most of the routes. You could call Kubiaks WCO scheme with the EP system if you wanted to. The only major difference would be what is said in the
At this point, SteelB is caught in a frenemy algorithm loop with Watson and he refuses to see he’s in a circular loop.

This is similar to when SteelB found out about Rick Smith’s college degree. He immediately determined Smith’s degree was a factor in his performance as a GM. Even after providing hard evidence that NFL GMs came from all walks of life with and without degrees. He repeated that opinion for months.

At this point, I expect him to disregard the videos of Watson dissecting defenses, all evidence contradicting his point and continue this faulty narrative through the end of the 2019 season. So, in honor of Sheldon Cooper’s friendship algorithm, we now have SteelB’s frenemy algorithm.
 

frethack

Rookie
At this point, SteelB is caught in a frenemy algorithm loop with Watson and he refuses to see he’s in a circular loop.

This is similar to when SteelB found out about Rick Smith’s college degree. He immediately determined Smith’s degree was a factor in his performance as a GM. Even after providing hard evidence that NFL GMs came from all walks of life with and without degrees. He repeated that opinion for months.

At this point, I expect him to disregard the videos of Watson dissecting defenses, all evidence contradicting his point and continue this faulty narrative through the end of the 2019 season. So, in honor of Sheldon Cooper’s friendship algorithm, we now have SteelB’s frenemy algorithm.
I probably should let it go, but I at least want some acknowledgement from him that the EP system is not a scheme.
 


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