Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

O'Brien gained respect

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
At this point, SteelB is caught in a frenemy algorithm loop with Watson and he refuses to see he’s in a circular loop.

This is similar to when SteelB found out about Rick Smith’s college degree. He immediately determined Smith’s degree was a factor in his performance as a GM. Even after providing hard evidence that NFL GMs came from all walks of life with and without degrees. He repeated that opinion for months.

At this point, I expect him to disregard the videos of Watson dissecting defenses, all evidence contradicting his point and continue this faulty narrative through the end of the 2019 season. So, in honor of Sheldon Cooper’s friendship algorithm, we now have SteelB’s frenemy algorithm.
Tell me this what are the current upper mgmts degrees and tell me if the Texans are currently in a better place than at any time under the RS yrs. You can make a case for 2011. But they didn't go anyfurther under RS than they probably will this yr. Or did under BOB when he didn't have full control.

12 yrs of evidence brother, how much more do you need?
 

Earl34

Rookie
Tell me this what are the current upper mgmts degrees and tell me if the Texans are currently in a better place than at any time under the RS yrs. You can make a case for 2011. But they didn't go anyfurther under RS than they probably will this yr. Or did under BOB when he didn't have full control.

12 yrs of evidence brother, how much more do you need?
Too funny. I’ve spent enough time with you on this absurd “Big Dummy” offense narrative. I have no interest in debating anything you have to say about Rick Smith. I rather watch paint dry.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Too funny. I’ve spent enough time with you on this absurd “Big Dummy” offense narrative. I have no interest in debating anything you have to say about Rick Smith. I rather watch paint dry.
Great

Then please dont make posts like the one you quoted about me then.

Truce
 
Smith is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Kubiak is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Gaine is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Bob McNair is passed, RIP and best to his family.

Can we PLEASE stop talking about the past around here like we are the damn Cowboys or something. At least they talk about past SB wins and not just about people that no longer matter to the team.

Bill O'Brien has been here six years, maybe he should have been fired by now maybe not but either way we can't get those years back and right now, as of this post, he is actually looking like the HC we all hoped he would when Watson was drafted. I don't care if he uses the EP system, the Clemson system, the Football for Dummies system or some system he came up with after looking at a stain on his napkin from where he wiped his mouth. If it produces these kind of results then use it. Who cares what its called.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Smith is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Kubiak is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Gaine is gone, best of luck to him and all the best.

Bob McNair is passed, RIP and best to his family.

Can we PLEASE stop talking about the past around here like we are the damn Cowboys or something. At least they talk about past SB wins and not just about people that no longer matter to the team.

Bill O'Brien has been here six years, maybe he should have been fired by now maybe not but either way we can't get those years back and right now, as of this post, he is actually looking like the HC we all hoped he would when Watson was drafted. I don't care if he uses the EP system, the Clemson system, the Football for Dummies system or some system he came up with after looking at a stain on his napkin from where he wiped his mouth. If it produces these kind of results then use it. Who cares what its called.

I have buddies who are Cowboys fans that still bring up Landry and Johnson. Especially when that team is not living up to the hype every year.

But I get your drift but like you said everything goes when you're debating right.
 

frethack

Rookie
It's a system and not the one that's currently being run.
The Texans are using EP verbiage and concepts to call plays. It is the EP system...it has been since 2014.

Bill OBrien, Bill Belichick and Charlie Weis all run some iteration of the EP in the same way that Gary Kubiak, Andy Reid and Bill Walsh all run some iteration of the WCO. None of them look a lot alike. They all use similar verbiage and concepts to call plays.

Its not so much that you're wrong. Its that you know so much that isn't so.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So Billy makes it to the SB with the Texans this year but fails to win that game you still want him fired ?
If O'Brien gets this team to a SB, he will get a 10 year extension regardless of the outcome and how it went down. If not an extension on paper, than certainly a pinky promise from Cal.

I think I understand where youre coming from. The Ravens are not running the EP, but the EP is not a certain set of plays, its just a way to call out those plays without getting into convoluted WCO verbiage where you individually assign most of the routes. You could call Kubiaks WCO scheme with the EP system if you wanted to. The only major difference would be what is said in the huddle.

The reason our scheme might look more like the Ravens than the Pats is because our QB can beat you with his brain, his arm AND his legs. There are just no other teams running the EP system that have a QB with Watsons skill set.
Yep. Well said.

I've posted it before, but feel like it needs to be put up again about the Patriots version of the EP for a better understanding on this forum about what it means with the Texans offense:

Speak My Language
As the players and schemes have changed, it's the way the Patriots talk that's continued their offensive dominance

The backbone of the Erhardt-Perkins system is that plays — pass plays in particular — are not organized by a route tree or by calling a single receiver’s route, but by what coaches refer to as “concepts.” Each play has a name, and that name conjures up an image for both the quarterback and the other players on offense. And, most importantly, the concept can be called from almost any formation or set. Who does what changes, but the theory and tactics driving the play do not. “In essence, you’re running the same play,” said Perkins. “You’re just giving them some window-dressing to make it look different.”

The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. “You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.”

Full article
Here is the key to the way the Patriots modified the EP system:

With the help of his assistants, Belichick’s primary innovation was to go from an Erhardt-Perkins offense to an Erhardt-Perkins system, built on its method of organizing and naming plays. The offense itself would be philosophically neutral. This is how, using the terminology and framework of what was once thought to be the league’s least progressive offensive system, Brady and Belichick built one of the most consistently dynamic and explosive offenses in NFL history. From conservative to spread to blistering no-huddle, the tactics — and players — have changed while the underlying approach has not.
And here's how it works for the QB running it:

For the quarterback, this means the play can be run repeatedly, from different formations and with different personnel, all while his read stays effectively the same. Once receivers understand each concept, they only have to know at which position they’re lined up. The personnel and formation might cause the defense to respond differently, but for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open. This conceptual approach is how the Patriots are able to run the same basic plays, whether spreading the field with four or five receivers or using multiple tight ends and running backs.
You can effectively use the modified EP system for ANY type of scheme, including WCO, RPO, run & shoot, etc.

And notice the key sentence: "for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open."

He knows before the ball is snapped where the coverage will be dominant, so he doesn't even have to look at that side of the field. Sound familiar?

Brady has one of the quickest releases in the NFL. He simply does not have the time to scan the entire field, but he doesn't have to because he already knows where the ball is probably going to go before he snaps it. We are seeing this same type of design and mentality with O'Brien and Watson. It just takes time to master and get the entire offense on the same page.
 

mws

Waterboy
The Eagles did, Look at their roster and compare it to the Texans experience wise. I could go thru the offense of the Eagles alone and prove a point but I'm not going to waste my time. Let me start with the skill guys Ajay/T. Smith/Jeffery/Ertz/Foles and get back to me.
Eagles
RB - Jay Ajayi - 2 YRS
WR - Torrey Smith - 6 YRS
WR - Alshon Jeffery - 5 YRS
TE - Zach Ertz - 4 YRS
QB - Nick Foles - 5 YRS

QB - Carson Wentz - 1 YRS Started 13 Games

Texans
RB - Carlos Hyde - 5 YRS
WR - DeAndre Hopkins - 6 YRS
WR - Kenny Stills - 6 YRS
TE - Darren Fells - 6 YRS
QB - Deshaun Watson - 3 YRS

They look pretty damn close to me.

You can check here.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2017_roster.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2019_roster.htm
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think I understand where youre coming from. The Ravens are not running the EP, but the EP is not a certain set of plays, its just a way to call out those plays without getting into convoluted WCO verbiage where you individually assign most of the routes. You could call Kubiaks WCO scheme with the EP system if you wanted to. The only major difference would be what is said in the huddle.

The reason our scheme might look more like the Ravens than the Pats is because our QB can beat you with his brain, his arm AND his legs. There are just no other teams running the EP system that have a QB with Watsons skill set.
Agreed. Our offense is more like Pittsburgh & NE's offense is more like a WCO.

I do like that we're back to running RPO's & QB runs. But I don't think anything has been simplified.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Brady has one of the quickest releases in the NFL. He simply does not have the time to scan the entire field, but he doesn't have to because he already knows where the ball is probably going to go before he snaps it.
To clarify, that decision is made by reading the defense, knowing the play called, & the personnel.

It's not the same thing we see from bad QBs who lock onto a receiver only because.

A third important factor, the playcaller & the QB has to be on the same page. The QB needs to understand what the playcaller is trying to accomplish when he calls a play. Stress the safety, get Keke on a LB. Set them up for the next play... etc. That's what really separates Brady/Daniels from everybody else. Brady & whoever really.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Eagles
RB - Jay Ajayi - 2 YRS
WR - Torrey Smith - 6 YRS
WR - Alshon Jeffery - 5 YRS
TE - Zach Ertz - 4 YRS
QB - Nick Foles - 5 YRS

QB - Carson Wentz - 1 YRS Started 13 Games

Texans
RB - Carlos Hyde - 5 YRS
WR - DeAndre Hopkins - 6 YRS
WR - Kenny Stills - 6 YRS
TE - Darren Fells - 6 YRS
QB - Deshaun Watson - 3 YRS

They look pretty damn close to me.

You can check here.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2017_roster.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2019_roster.htm
OL please?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Beatty 6 years
Brooks 4 years
Johnson 4 years
Keke 6 years
Seumalo 1 year
Vaitai 1 year
Carmack 4 years
Wisniewski 7 years

That is not a lot of experience right there and during the SB run they didn't have that many years together either.
A whole lot more than a New LT/Rookie LG/3yr C/5 yr LG (2nd with Texans/Rookie RT.

That's a young OL and when you put that with a QB that's been here 3 yrs (But really less) Surely you can see the difference.

Nah, you cant.

The Eagles OL that started in the SB

LT/1yr because Peters got hurt/LG/6 yrs/C/6 yrs/RG/4 yrs/RT/ 4 yrs
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
When the Texans have a good game and win, Obrien is showing promise. When the Texans are crap, Obrien sucks. Considering the lack of consistency in the past, that's just the way it works.

Last week's game might be the first time OB ever out coached anyone since he got here.

One game doesn't make up for 5+ years of suckitude.

One game isn't going to change our opinion of him - He's got a long way to go to prove to us that the mistakes are behind him.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
One game isn't going to change our opinion of him - He's got a long way to go to prove to us that the mistakes are behind him.
But ya gotta admit it does give a glimmer of hope, right? It did for me - finally Obrien has pulled his head outa his ass and maybe just maybe he won't stick it back in?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
When the Texans have a good game and win, Obrien is showing promise. When the Texans are crap, Obrien sucks. Considering the lack of consistency in the past, that's just the way it works.
For me it's because when the Texans win I can identify things that O'Brien has done to assist in that win. Also, when team loses----

It's not all about O'Brien but like the QB when you win he gets the credit. When you lose he gets the boos.

It may not be fair but a head coach should be able to help you get a win. A head coach should not ever help you get a loss.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
But ya gotta admit it does give a glimmer of hope, right? It did for me - finally Obrien has pulled his head outa his ass and maybe just maybe he won't stick it back in?

He gave me hope twice already. As soon as I said , "ok Bill O'Brien is doing his thing". His team completely disappoints me in the playoffs.

But you're right there's a glimmer of hope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROO

ROO

Fire somebody...
He gave me hope twice already. As soon as I said , "ok Bill O'Brien is doing his thing". His team completely disappoints me in the playoffs.

But you're right there's a glimmer of hope.
Even though I am optimistic at the moment, and am looking forward (hoping for) to continued success, I harbor no illusions of the Texans getting to the SuperBowl this year. I've been living in Houston for almost 60 years after all.

Honestly, a consistent scoring offense and cleaning up the bush-league coaching decisions on the sidelines would be a successful season for me. And if that consistency is found, maybe I start thinking about the SuperBowl in the next couple of years.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I suppose I have finally gotten over 38 - 41. I have gotten over the Renfro catch-non-catch. I have not gotten over that someone thought Brian Hoyer was "serviceable". At least DW4 gives the Texans a chance. And if Obrien will just get out of the way, maybe good things will come.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Even though I am optimistic at the moment, and am looking forward (hoping for) to continued success, I harbor no illusions of the Texans getting to the SuperBowl this year. I've been living in Houston for almost 60 years after all.

Honestly, a consistent scoring offense and cleaning up the bush-league coaching decisions on the sidelines would be a successful season for me. And if that consistency is found, maybe I start thinking about the SuperBowl in the next couple of years.
This is what I'm thinking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROO

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I suppose I have finally gotten over 38 - 41. I have gotten over the Renfro catch-non-catch. I have not gotten over that someone thought Brian Hoyer was "serviceable". At least DW4 gives the Texans a chance. And if Obrien will just get out of the way, maybe good things will come.
Bad/Bad memories

Thanks/LOL
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I was impressed that after falling to 17-3 O'Brian stuck to his guns & kept running the ball.
That don't sound like O'Brien. He'll abandon the run if he's trailing by three.

I really hope a lot of this is Tim Kelly's influence. That way in the future he can start calling plays & O'Brian can concentrate on the overall game.
I liked how Watson & Kelly had a one on one before that 4th & 3 play.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
The playoffs are the litmus test.

Only way he gets a pass is I'd he calls a great game and the team loses say 34-31 because of injuries in the secondary.
Yep. He's started bad and got better plenty of times in the last 6 years.

Gotta do some damage in the playoffs this season, or at least not get his pants pulled down yet again.
 

417Texans

Waterboy
This was the single most impressive win in BoB's tenure here, maybe in franchise history. This team has major potential if he can continue to improve and learn. He has made impressive changes over the past two weeks and has earned the right to some respect. I hope he continues to run this offense and help Watson grow. He's earned the right to be praised...for now. Just keep it going



I loved the balanced attack Sunday. Very physical.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To clarify, that decision is made by reading the defense, knowing the play called, & the personnel.

It's not the same thing we see from bad QBs who lock onto a receiver only because.

A third important factor, the playcaller & the QB has to be on the same page. The QB needs to understand what the playcaller is trying to accomplish when he calls a play. Stress the safety, get Keke on a LB. Set them up for the next play... etc. That's what really separates Brady/Daniels from everybody else. Brady & whoever really.
Yep, I agree completely. Obviously we are talking about a Jedi master with regards to Brady at this point. There is literally nothing a defense can throw at him that he hasn't seen before.

Hopefully, this is becoming part of Watson's foundation, that basic understanding to make adjustments before the snap and have his offensive players on the same page with him.

We often give the QBs too much credit, but so much more has to happen just to get to that point. All the film study, off season preparations, coach created game plans, an o-line that understands protections and adjustments, and skill positions that pick up on his audibles.

That said, I think Watson is up to the task. The longer he runs this system, the better he's going to get at mastering it. Listening to his press conferences lately breaking down opposing defenses is cool to hear. There is certainly a cerebral aspect of his game that is a central as his natural talents.

No.

The system didn't change.

They just turned to a different page in the playbook.
I remember when O'Brien was hired and he talked about this "game plan offense" and the concept of the toolbox. He said they plan in the off-season different packages - i.e. tools - and they could be WCO, goal line, 4 WR sets, etc., and then they pull different "tools" out of the toolbox for each opponent, which is the game plan offense idea.

Obviously, the question that comes from this concept is why didn't he pull out the tools for what he's doing now earlier in the season? I can only guess, but maybe having two new RBs and a liquefied o-line that had not played together might have played a part.

Hopefully what we are seeing the past two weeks is a sign of things to come. This game against Indy should reveal a lot in that regard.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Funny how things change so drastically from week to week in the NFL. Thought I would bump this thread up next to the fire BOB thread lol.

Any good will that son of a biscuit eater earned last week , he lost this week.

Year 6 of a 3 year rebuild.

Really , he was given a very good team aside from one position …. and he and Tricky Rick screwed around with that position until a mandate came from the top to go get a QB.

They should have gotten a quality QB in the draft instead of playing musical chairs for 3 years while the team got old - I mean if they are willing to give up that kinda draft capital for a tackle , why not the most important position in professional sports ? Instead we get the Blundering Wizard of Oz , Savage , Hoyerable , FitzTragic and so on.

No , we might not have Watson …. but 3 years of kicking the can down the road got us the same results as 3 years of giving Watson the HWWNBM treatment.

This franchise always seems to find a way to disappoint ….
 
My personal opinion is there's nothing Bill O'Brien can do in the regular season (baring like a 15-1 or 16-0 season or something unrealistic like that) that would make me have complete faith in him. I will give him credit when he coaches a good game individually but only a deep playoff run in a way this team has never seen will make me back off on him.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So if O'Brien gained respect last game, and EVERYBODY HAD TO chime in with warm, fuzzy nice things to say, and we sat around the bonfire and were happy and oozed with positivity and hugged and apologized for all the mean things each side said to one another - and then you get a game like yesterday!

Its just like the harmful cycle of domestic abuse. Ugly Monster Man slaps face, get sad, fight, throw things, keep distance. Talk. Work it out. Happy for a few days, things look great, future is bright AND SMACK another slap to the face.

Constant love and hate battle, "overcoming" problems, "getting somewhere" but in reality they are just excuses to perpetuate the activity.

Best thing an abused person can do is just walk away and start fresh.
 
So if O'Brien gained respect last game, and EVERYBODY HAD TO chime in with warm, fuzzy nice things to say, and we sat around the bonfire and were happy and oozed with positivity and hugged and apologized for all the mean things each side said to one another - and then you get a game like yesterday!

Its just like the harmful cycle of domestic abuse. Ugly Monster Man slaps face, get sad, fight, throw things, keep distance. Talk. Work it out. Happy for a few days, things look great, future is bright AND SMACK another slap to the face.

Constant love and hate battle, "overcoming" problems, "getting somewhere" but in reality they are just excuses to perpetuate the activity.

Best thing an abused person can do is just walk away and start fresh.
You're not wrong and I find it very telling that all week I figured this was the game the other shoe dropped. But the same could be said for the rest of the team as well. How long before Watson starts holding the ball to long, before Fuller is injured again, before RACs "bend don't break" lets a team bend it all the way around our neck and choke us, before the Oline has holes big enough to drive a truck through and before our running game is shut down.

It's not just BoB that is Jekyll and Hyde its the whole damn team.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So if O'Brien gained respect last game, and EVERYBODY HAD TO chime in with warm, fuzzy nice things to say, and we sat around the bonfire and were happy and oozed with positivity and hugged and apologized for all the mean things each side said to one another - and then you get a game like yesterday!

Its just like the harmful cycle of domestic abuse. Ugly Monster Man slaps face, get sad, fight, throw things, keep distance. Talk. Work it out. Happy for a few days, things look great, future is bright AND SMACK another slap to the face.

Constant love and hate battle, "overcoming" problems, "getting somewhere" but in reality they are just excuses to perpetuate the activity.

Best thing an abused person can do is just walk away and start fresh.
Yep, A young QB that's still learning can also cause thoughts like this.

Jesusincleats is not only offensive but laughable.
 


Top