Support Texans Talk as a Monthly Donor

Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

O'Brien gained respect

mws

Veteran
The goalpost has never moved for me.
I 100% agree with this.

My expectations have not changed.

This is year 6 and we have beat one rookie QB making his first NFL start ever in the playoffs.

We have been stomped by a score of 85 to 23 in the other 3 games. That means we average 7.6 points per playoff game besides the Raider game.

Last year we were 11/5. Then we went to the playoffs and got our usual pathetic 7 points and were done.

I don't give a damn about our record. If we don't make some serious noise in the playoffs this year I will still want O'Brian fired.
 

Uncle Rico

Pro BS'er
It does look like it from those highlights. Anyone else have thoughts?
Sigh. Its just nonsensical. Think about it - a RIGHT HAND QB "only" able to see the LEFT side of the field? LOL. OKAY. Most of the passing concepts have to take advantage of the given alignments. There is almost too much read and recovery asked from the isolation routes and older philosophy of passing. NOW - and it HAS NOT been there dont let them fool you, the middle routes are there because they are being schemed, OR and this is what I prefer to believe - Watson is changing up more plays at the LOS to take advantage of the defense and to make up for the poor play call.

Here are Watsons passing charts and QB grids for this year. While you can see that there are a few games where he was targeting a certain side, there will be another game where he is heavy on the other side? The whole "dumb QB" discussion has now morphed into "he's only successful because he only makes 1 read/scans 1 side of the field" .. Its simply not true. He takes what the defense gives him, and until now those 4 wideouts were going too far down the field and now winning their individual battles to be effective. They have now started to implement TRUE 5 yard passing, and using other successful offensive trends like bunch and combo routes to help Watson, and to accept that the old fashioned way to call a game and implement a game plan just isnt working with the current group of talent. Thats what a good coach does by the way. Making up excuses to insulate OBrien from criticism and somehow continue to try and diminish Watson is sad.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/houston-texans/2019/week



Next Gen for whatever reason doesnt have this years QB Grid data processed or uploaded yet, but just judge from last year. You mean to tell me a QB who is NOW in MVP talks, is WORSE at reading and recognizing a defense, BOTH PRE AND POST snap - is one year wiser and smarter, but is only looking one way!! LOL its crazy talk.

 

mws

Veteran
I like people with balls of steel.

Like going for a 4th & 3 late in the 4th qtr to seal the win. A great change in philosophy by BOB.
I think he did it in large part because he did not trust his kicker. He probably thought he had a better chance of getting the first than kicking a FG.
 

usernameJJ

Veteran
The offense looked amazing Sunday. Like nothing I have ever seen from them. And I loved it. The question will be can we do that against a more dominant Defense as KC's D is pretty bad
 

Texas Jake

All Pro
Yep they're running something closer to the Clemson offense (Did you see the option and RPO's Watson ran last game) this also only requires Watson to read 1/2 the field.
There have been adjustments, but I still think the big difference is Watson is maturing as a QB. He is making throws early that have been there in the past, but he didn't see or ignored because he was holding out for the big score. I think we are seeing our QB evolve and taking that next step in becoming an elite player at his position.
 

frethack

All Pro
According to Lance Zierlein, Tim Kelly is calling the plays. We can now add play calling to the number of things the Texans do that we have no idea who is making the decisions.
This is in line with Watsons last presser talking about OB and Kellys vision of the offense. I posted it elsewhere (or maybe even here), but its the first time I have heard anyone refer to Kellys vision of the offense.

If its true, kudos to BOB. Last game they both had a play sheet from the few times they showed the sideline. *Something* fundamental has changed.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Site Contributor
Not sure OBrien deserves the credit when its been Watson at the LOS changing the plays and making it happen on 3rd down. Even the RPO stuff - it has been Deshauns good judgement that has led to great runs and open dump offs and intermediate routes.

I want to see MORE of Deshaun calling plays at the line. Seems to work pretty good. If OBrien needs credit for relaxing his tyrannical grip well then, lets send him some cookies or something.
Watson is not calling plays at the LOS......PERIOD!
 

Texas Jake

All Pro
I think he did it in large part because he did not trust his kicker. He probably thought he had a better chance of getting the first than kicking a FG.
I think another aspect to this is he now has an offense he can trust in those situations. The improved oline and RBs are a part of this combined with more decisive and consistent play from Watson.
 

ObsiWan

Site Contributor
I think he did it in large part because he did not trust his kicker. He probably thought he had a better chance of getting the first than kicking a FG.
Plus O'Brien was "betting with house money". They were up 7 so KC would have had to score a TD from their own 27 with no time outs and about a minute and a half left. And our defense had stopped them for most of the 2nd half.
Sooooo either bet on Watson to get the first down or trust Kairbairn to make that kick. In that scenario, I'm betting on Watson too.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Sigh. Its just nonsensical. Think about it - a RIGHT HAND QB "only" able to see the LEFT side of the field? LOL. OKAY. Most of the passing concepts have to take advantage of the given alignments. There is almost too much read and recovery asked from the isolation routes and older philosophy of passing. NOW - and it HAS NOT been there dont let them fool you, the middle routes are there because they are being schemed, OR and this is what I prefer to believe - Watson is changing up more plays at the LOS to take advantage of the defense and to make up for the poor play call.

Here are Watsons passing charts and QB grids for this year. While you can see that there are a few games where he was targeting a certain side, there will be another game where he is heavy on the other side? The whole "dumb QB" discussion has now morphed into "he's only successful because he only makes 1 read/scans 1 side of the field" .. Its simply not true. He takes what the defense gives him, and until now those 4 wideouts were going too far down the field and now winning their individual battles to be effective. They have now started to implement TRUE 5 yard passing, and using other successful offensive trends like bunch and combo routes to help Watson, and to accept that the old fashioned way to call a game and implement a game plan just isnt working with the current group of talent. Thats what a good coach does by the way. Making up excuses to insulate OBrien from criticism and somehow continue to try and diminish Watson is sad.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/houston-texans/2019/week



Next Gen for whatever reason doesnt have this years QB Grid data processed or uploaded yet, but just judge from last year. You mean to tell me a QB who is NOW in MVP talks, is WORSE at reading and recognizing a defense, BOTH PRE AND POST snap - is one year wiser and smarter, but is only looking one way!! LOL its crazy talk.



This is by far the best post on this thread. And it should refute the silly notion that Obrien has simplified his offense and that Watson is to S to read defenses and can't run the EP system. Bill O'Brien has finally took the leash off during these two games.

Again great post
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Not sure OBrien deserves the credit when its been Watson at the LOS changing the plays and making it happen on 3rd down. Even the RPO stuff - it has been Deshauns good judgement that has led to great runs and open dump offs and intermediate routes.

I want to see MORE of Deshaun calling plays at the line. Seems to work pretty good. If OBrien needs credit for relaxing his tyrannical grip well then, lets send him some cookies or something.
So if Watson gets credit for all of the good plays, does he get blame for the 2 ints, including throwing into double coverage not once but twice and also having another couple that should've been picked off?

I think Watson played a good game but it was far from perfect and I personally think your post is ridiculous because you just like me dont know crap about the play calls/checks etc... heck, we cant even agree on if the offense has been changed to more of a Clemson style offense with options/RPO's, which it obviously has been changed for the better.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This is by far the best post on this thread. And it should refute the silly notion that Obrien has simplified his offense and that Watson is to S to read defenses and can't run the EP system. Bill O'Brien has finally took the leash off during these two games.

Again great post
If you cant see with your own eyes how the offense has changed to make things easier for Watson to make the proper reads then I dont know what to tell you.

Go back and look at how many times on pass plays Watson is looking at 1/2 of the field vs scanning the whole field in the Chiefs game and get back to me.

This doesn't mean he cant/wont be able to scan the entire field but as of now BOB has stopped asking him to do it on a more than regular basis.

And UR look at the last 2 games not the season as a whole since they changed the offense 2 games.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Site Contributor
Are you saying Watson isn't even calling audibles
or
that all the "original" play calls come from O'Brien but Watson can check out of a potential bad play?
It's actually very simple, O'Brien calls the original plays. By "bad play," that needs to be defined...............most "bad plays" like blitzes can be countered by proper presnap read and calling protections rather than changing plays. Besides these type of circumstances, Watson would not have option to debate whether this is a good play or that a bad play and routinely call his own plays. Even if he sees a "bad play," there are always "safety" options built into any one called play that he can take such as dump off, throw it away, short passes, etc.
 

badboy

Site Contributor
We are not running anything close to Clemson offense. We just moved from the long developing plays to the real EP system. Which requires the receivers to run more short routes.

Dink and donk, run the ball and then hit them over the top. Every so often since you have a running quarterback, throw in the designed qb run.

Steel is really trying to stick to his agenda. And he's actually doing a disservice to Watson's.

Bill O'Brien has set his pride aside for the betterment of his team. He has scrapped those long developing plays and started running these short routes just like the Patriots and several other teams.
Looking at your paragraph two only it does appear that O'Brien is using a Clemson type offense when Watson played there. Either way it appears the HC is making good moves.
 

Earl34

All Pro
How many options/RPO's have you seen Brady run. If you cant see the difference in the offenses I dont know what to tell you. Yes, they have Watson doing what he's comfortable with giving him 1-2 reads on half the field. The difference in the type of offense being run is night and day.

As far as the TE thingy goes, they threw to the TE, Remember Fiedo retired from the concussions he received. Griffin stayed concussed etc... The last 2 yrs they had to keep the TE's in to help the crappy OT play.

Look, can you just get on board with me and be glad that the changes to the offense that needed to be made were finally made.
Why would Brady run a RPO when his preference would be to just use the short passing game? Also, you do realize when Brady is executing the quick passing game, he also is going through only 1-2 reads?

As far as the TEs they have been under utilized in this offense. One year, Blue was targeted as much if not more than the TEs and he wasn’t even starting. They have consistently been the 3rd, 4th and even 5th options in the passing game.

I can get onboard with you that the changes to the offense are welcomed and much needed. However, I will continue to agree to disagree with your opinion that Watson lacks the ability to grasp the EP offense or he can only be successful if the offense is being dumbed down to 1-2 reads. You’re not flat out calling him stupid, but you’re still implying it.
 

gs27

Hall of Fame
JB, I saved this piece a while back because it gave such a great explanation and highlights on the subject......and just found it (sorry, I didn't save the link). But it goes along with the things I've heard from others in the know regarding the "laces myth."
***************************************************************************************************************
It's a myth that the placement of the laces has any effect on the kick. The foot (or the part of the foot that actually matters) makes contact with the ball well below the stripes or laces. From that alone, one can deduce that it doesn't matter. If the foot did hit the stripe, the kicker fucked up.

One of my favorite bits trivia is that having the laces in will actually help the ball fly further, in theory at least. This is because kicking is all about air pressure. The goal when kicking is to compress the ball as much as possible for as long as possible. This is why you see kickers who can put their foot over their head. The more flexible the kicker, the longer his foot can stay on the ball.

A regulation football is inflated to 13.5 psi. Ideally, you want your kick to decrease the size of the ball by 1/3 which, by Boyle's Law, will increase the pressure by ~30%. That force is being exerted on the top side of the ball facing away from the kicker. You want an efficient energy transfer between the foot and the back side of the ball bladder. The laces and stripes are stitched on. This means that there are holes in the leather where they are attached. If the laces are out, the bladder can expand into these holes which means the volume of air increases, and the pressure decreases. Obviously, the effect is negligible, but it is interesting.

The one problem I see from the thumbnail picture that could have affected the kick is that the ball is tilted too far back. Ideally, the ball should be facing slightly away from the kicker to expose more the bottom, allowing the kicker to hit further under the ball. It also looks like the kicker's plant foot is too close to the ball. The expression I learned is that the plant leg is the smart leg and the kicking leg is the dumb one. If you want to know where the ball is going, look at the plant foot. The plant is tricky in college because they don't get a tee for reference. This means that the holder has to be consistent with where he places the ball otherwise the kicker's plant foot will be in the wrong spot.
This is not true, kicking well in any sport requires kicking the center of the ball. If you want to make sure to get extra elevation (onside kicks ect) you may kick below the equator, but in general, like in golf, elevation is determined by the plane of the swing. The laces is about spin. Most all kickers swing the foot with an inside out plane producing a draw or hook (funny most coaches don't understand this, right footed kickers almost exclusively prefer the ball on the left hash, but none will ever admit it because they always want to get the chance from either hash or don't want to lose their job when they miss from the bad hash because another kicker lies and says they don't care). When contacted, the laces impart spin on the ball and if the laces are to the side of the contact they could decrease the hook or even make the ball slice when it was excepted to hook or vice versa. Even the strongest leg kicker would not be able to kick the ball farther than 40 yards if contact was so far down that the laces were not in play. The ball simply would not compress. Like soccer or golf when a kicker hits the ball on the button (center) it is significantly more compressed. Coaching youth soccer it was fun to watch kids get it when they finally realize they don't have to kick under the equator of the ball to get elevation. Then before they know it they need to adjust the plant foot (resulting in change to swing plane) to keep the ball down even when striking the center of the ball.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
The Colts have a linebacker and a safety returning this week which will make their defense even better. They completely shut down the Chiefs running game to just 2.6 yards each Carry. I see us getting a w but it will be a very important game.

Phillip Gaines needs to be a nickle inside CB with Crossen and Lonnie Johnson on the outside. Crossen surprised many with his rapid improvement with the New England Patriots. As he gets the Playbook down I expect to see him become a very good player. Unfortunately he's got to learn on the Run. Hopefully the OJT of Roderick Johnson and the corners I just mentioned will be great for us going into the playoffs and next season. If Only They can hold it together a couple more months.
If he was rapidly improving why was he traded? It seems like a lot of these reports were based on training camp and preseason
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The reason why Watson was holding onto the ball is because of the route tree.

Please go look at his first 7 games, last season, the first 4 games of this year and finally these last two games.

They are not running the same route tree gents. They are finally using all of their weapons verses going to Hop and Fuller for majority of the game.

In Watson rookie year they were getting the ball out quick just like they have done in the last two weeks of this season. Then last season Bill O'Brien said we were going to see a different offense in year 18. That's when we went to these extra long developing routes. Both him and Watson were enamored with the big play. They came into this season (1st four games) with that same mentality. Results: Watson taking a serious beating.

A lot of us were on here screaming for the dink and donk quick hitter offense. Now after 2 games of that, Watson doesn't even have to wash his squeaky clean Jersey.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The reason why Watson was holding onto the ball is because of the route tree.

Please go look at his first 7 games, last season, the first 4 games of this year and finally these last two games.

They are not running the same route tree gents. They are finally using all of their weapons verses going to Hop and Fuller for majority of the game.

In Watson rookie year they were getting the ball out quick just like they have done in the last two weeks of this season. Then last season Bill O'Brien said we were going to see a different offense in year 18. That's when we went to these extra long developing routes. Both him and Watson were enamored with the big play. They came into this season (1st four games) with that same mentality. Results: Watson taking a serious beating.

A lot of us were on here screaming for the dink and donk quick hitter offense. Now after 2 games of that, Watson doesn't even have to wash his squeaky clean Jersey.

Great adjustments by all parties involved.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Why would Brady run a RPO when his preference would be to just use the short passing game? Also, you do realize when Brady is executing the quick passing game, he also is going through only 1-2 reads?

As far as the TEs they have been under utilized in this offense. One year, Blue was targeted as much if not more than the TEs and he wasn’t even starting. They have consistently been the 3rd, 4th and even 5th options in the passing game.

I can get onboard with you that the changes to the offense are welcomed and much needed. However, I will continue to agree to disagree with your opinion that Watson lacks the ability to grasp the EP offense or he can only be successful if the offense is being dumbed down to 1-2 reads. You’re not flat out calling him stupid, but you’re still implying it.
Brady and Brees are 2 of the best at knowing where to go with the ball pre snap. Watson isn't even in their same universe in this regard. Doesn't mean he cant learn, but right now he's not even close to being on the level of those guys. So BOB did the smart thing and changed up the offense to make things easier on Watson so the offense could operate more efficiently. Are you happy that BOB made these changes? Will BOB get the blame when the offense only scores 24-27 pts instead of 30-50 and if this happens will UR say that Watson changed into the wrong plays at the LOS (I dont believe Watson is changing the plays as much as he's calling out the blitzer to the WR's which has them shorten their routes but the play remains the same.) and the fault the offense didn't work as well this week because of Watson or will it be all BOB's fault?

The real reason I expect the TEXANS to only score 24-27 pts this week is really easy, The Colts have a much better defense than either the Falcons/Colts.
 

badboy

Site Contributor
It was a soft schedule last year. But I will give credit to OB to holding the team together.

Nice to see OB blend is offense with what Watson’s strength are.

That is how Baltimore is making their QB work. Adapting.
Perhaps true about the soft schedule but the team of 20 18 it's not as good as the 2019.
 

badboy

Site Contributor
I think he did it in large part because he did not trust his kicker. He probably thought he had a better chance of getting the first than kicking a FG.
Perhaps his opinion of the kicker was a part of it or it could just be correct play to go for first down. We all seem to go with a lot of assumption when we have no actual knowledge.
 

badboy

Site Contributor
If he was rapidly improving why was he traded? It seems like a lot of these reports were based on training camp and preseason
Well of course the report was based on training camp and preseason as there was not much else at that time to report on. Going into the season even with the selection in second round of Johnson, it was known we had weak depth. Why not bring aboard a young, extremely fast (4.32) CB?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Yep, Brady runs the option 2 or 3 times a game.

You're too busy trying to go against the grain to the point of not actually following the entire conversation. It was said earlier in this thread that a few designed running plays are sprinkled into this offense. But that is actually a freaking good thing because now teams will have to stay at bay verses teeing off on Watson like they were doing in weeks 1-.4.

It almost seems as if you just don't like being wrong. This youngster has proved you all the way wrong. And instead of saying," hey my bad I was wrong. You're on here trying your best to convince everyone that this offense was dummy downed.

Come on Steel let it go brother.
 
Last edited:

badboy

Site Contributor
You're too busy trying to go against the grain to the point of actually following the entire conversation. It was said earlier in this thread that a few designed running plays are sprinkled into this offense. But that is actually a freaking good thing because now teams will have to stay at bay verses teeing off on Watson like they were doing in weeks 1-.4.

It almost seems as if you just don't like being wrong. This youngster has proved you all the way wrong. And instead of saying," hey my bad I was wrong. You're on here trying your best to convince everyone that this offense was dummy downed.

Come on Steel let it go brother.
not defending Steel or using the word dummy but everyone even those not on this board have commented on O'Brien changing the offensive plan of attack to get the ball more quickly out of Watson's hands. It also benefited Hopkins who cannot seem to get separation. This new approach takes advantage of Nuk's great use of hands and fighting for the boss. I just hate to see him get beat up for only a few yards per catch.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Brady and Brees are 2 of the best at knowing where to go with the ball pre snap. Watson isn't even in their same universe in this regard. Doesn't mean he cant learn, but right now he's not even close to being on the level of those guys. So BOB did the smart thing and changed up the offense to make things easier on Watson so the offense could operate more efficiently. Are you happy that BOB made these changes? Will BOB get the blame when the offense only scores 24-27 pts instead of 30-50 and if this happens will UR say that Watson changed into the wrong plays at the LOS (I dont believe Watson is changing the plays as much as he's calling out the blitzer to the WR's which has them shorten their routes but the play remains the same.) and the fault the offense didn't work as well this week because of Watson or will it be all BOB's fault?

The real reason I expect the TEXANS to only score 24-27 pts this week is really easy, The Colts have a much better defense than either the Falcons/Colts.
I have given BOB credit for adjusting the offense and the game plans. At this point in his career, I do not expect Watson to be as effective as Brees and Brady with his pre snap reads. Hell, there are starting QBs with way more experience than Watson who are not as good as Brady and Brees with their pre-snap reads.

I agree with many of your posts. But we are in total disagreement on the issue and changes to the offense. I see the issues in the offense from a play calling, philosophy and execution perspective. You see it as simply a personnel issue with Watson’s inability to execute BOB’s explosive version of the EP offense.
 

ObsiWan

Site Contributor
So if Watson gets credit for all of the good plays, does he get blame for the 2 ints, including throwing into double coverage not once but twice and also having another couple that should've been picked off?

I think Watson played a good game but it was far from perfect and I personally think your post is ridiculous because you just like me dont know crap about the play calls/checks etc... heck, we cant even agree on if the offense has been changed to more of a Clemson style offense with options/RPO's, which it obviously has been changed for the better.
Definitely. The first one I think he threw up and 50/50 ball and we lost.
The second pick was supposed to be a timing route to the corner of the endzone and KC jammed Hopkins on the line and screwed up the timing. Once Watson saw Hop being jammed he should have thrown it away.
Yeah, both of those are on Watson.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You're too busy trying to go against the grain to the point of actually following the entire conversation. It was said earlier in this thread that a few designed running plays are sprinkled into this offense. But that is actually a freaking good thing because now teams will have to stay at bay verses teeing off on Watson like they were doing in weeks 1-.4.

It almost seems as if you just don't like being wrong. This youngster has proved you all the way wrong. And instead of saying," hey my bad I was wrong. You're on here trying your best to convince everyone that this offense was dummy downed.

Come on Steel let it go brother.
How many RPO's do Brady Brees run.

Go back and look at the Clemson offense and tell me it doesn't look alot like the offense the Texans are running now. Did you do what I asked and looked at the offense and the reads Watson is making and where he's looking when he's throwing the ball. Nope, I didn't think so. If I'm wrong about something I will admit it, I've done that several times over the yrs. I'm not wrong in this case. You just choose not to watch the film I asked you too. Why? I think we know why.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I have given BOB credit for adjusting the offense and the game plans. At this point in his career, I do not expect Watson to be as effective as Brees and Brady with his pre snap reads. Hell, there are starting QBs with way more experience than Watson who are not as good as Brady and Brees with their pre-snap reads.

I agree with many of your posts. But we are in total disagreement on the issue and changes to the offense. I see the issues in the offense from a play calling, philosophy and execution perspective. You see it as simply a personnel issue with Watson’s inability to execute BOB’s explosive version of the EP offense.
I see it as a personnel issue that was rightfully corrected by a philosophical change in the offense to better fit the personnel.
 

Uncle Rico

Pro BS'er
Watson is not calling plays at the LOS......PERIOD!
So Watson isnt looking at wide open middle of the field on 3rd down and killing whatever the original call was in order to get quick slants for first downs - he's not calling for run plays into an aggressive blitz? Im not insinuating he's calling an entire game for himself, but he's MUCH MORE INVOLVED in the execution of the offense, its no longer a case of "run what I tell you to run"
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
So Watson isnt looking at wide open middle of the field on 3rd down and killing whatever the original call was in order to get quick slants for first downs - he's not calling for run plays into an aggressive blitz? Im not insinuating he's calling an entire game for himself, but he's MUCH MORE INVOLVED in the execution of the offense, its no longer a case of "run what I tell you to run"
Agreed and I think that is a fine line people are not getting. They hear "Watson called that play" and they think either A: BoB said "call whatever you want its all you" or B: BoB called a play but Watson said "Nah, I'm going to run this instead". Rogers, who is a bit of a Deva and control freak, himself said that no QB anywhere calls their own plays when asked about Manning. I think BoB, or maybe Kelly I don't know, is calling the play but also giving Watson the freedom to make quick, small changes to screw up the blitz.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
not defending Steel or using the word dummy but everyone even those not on this board have commented on O'Brien changing the offensive plan of attack to get the ball more quickly out of Watson's hands. It also benefited Hopkins who cannot seem to get separation. This new approach takes advantage of Nuk's great use of hands and fighting for the boss. I just hate to see him get beat up for only a few yards per catch.

I agree we have changed the Bill O'Brien version of the EP to what we see the Patriots are doing. The only difference is Watson is more mobile than Brady so, every so often the RPO is tossed in. Which is very smart because we've seen what the threat of him running does to the defense. It keeps the dogs for hunting, keeps Watson for getting murdered behind that line and helps the offensive line tremendously.

Steel is acting like we're running it on every other play which is false. He was also wrong about Watson not being able to run this offense.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Agreed and I think that is a fine line people are not getting. They hear "Watson called that play" and they think either A: BoB said "call whatever you want its all you" or B: BoB called a play but Watson said "Nah, I'm going to run this instead". Rogers, who is a bit of a Deva and control freak, himself said that no QB anywhere calls their own plays when asked about Manning. I think BoB, or maybe Kelly I don't know, is calling the play but also giving Watson the freedom to make quick, small changes to screw up the blitz.
I think that instead of making changes to the play, he's doing a better job pre-snap of communicating what he sees so the other guys do what he expects... an important part of the EP offense
 

Uncle Rico

Pro BS'er
This is not true, kicking well in any sport requires kicking the center of the ball. If you want to make sure to get extra elevation (onside kicks ect) you may kick below the equator, but in general, like in golf, elevation is determined by the plane of the swing. The laces is about spin. Most all kickers swing the foot with an inside out plane producing a draw or hook (funny most coaches don't understand this, right footed kickers almost exclusively prefer the ball on the left hash, but none will ever admit it because they always want to get the chance from either hash or don't want to lose their job when they miss from the bad hash because another kicker lies and says they don't care). When contacted, the laces impart spin on the ball and if the laces are to the side of the contact they could decrease the hook or even make the ball slice when it was excepted to hook or vice versa. Even the strongest leg kicker would not be able to kick the ball farther than 40 yards if contact was so far down that the laces were not in play. The ball simply would not compress. Like soccer or golf when a kicker hits the ball on the button (center) it is significantly more compressed. Coaching youth soccer it was fun to watch kids get it when they finally realize they don't have to kick under the equator of the ball to get elevation. Then before they know it they need to adjust the plant foot (resulting in change to swing plane) to keep the ball down even when striking the center of the ball.
it comes down to basic physics and practical common sense. You want to be able to strike a smooth surface in order to accurately guide the ball in the desired location. Striking the ball ON THE LACES doesnt provide a smooth surface, it actually includes topography to the kick and even a slight .001-.005 of an inch strike onto the laces could move the ball the necessary distance off track for a miss over the course of 40-50 yards. Similar to a long space orbit being knocked off course by the ever slight bump. You would need to strike the ball PERFECTLY with the laces facing you for the kick to stand a chance. LACES OUT is a more forgiving hold.

Fairbairn was one of the best kickers in the NFL last year, and his troubles started as soon as Anger became his holder. I was ready to throw the baby out with the bath water, but its a pretty big detail to overlook or discredit.

 

CloakNNNdagger

Site Contributor
I think that instead of making changes to the play, he's doing a better job pre-snap of communicating what he sees so the other guys do what he expects... an important part of the EP offense
[As opposed to how Kdog was trying to twist my response.......]

Which is what my specific response to Obsiwan was about
Are you saying Watson isn't even calling audibles
or
that all the "original" play calls come from O'Brien but Watson can check out of a potential bad play?
It's actually very simple, O'Brien calls the original plays. By "bad play," that needs to be defined...............most "bad plays" like blitzes can be countered by proper presnap read and calling protections rather than changing plays. Besides these type of circumstances, Watson would not have option to debate whether this is a good play or that a bad play and routinely call his own plays. Even if he sees a "bad play," there are always "safety" options built into any one called play that he can take such as dump off, throw it away, short passes, etc.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I agree we have changed the Bill O'Brien version of the EP to what we see the Patriots are doing. The only difference is Watson is more mobile than Brady so, every so often the RPO is tossed in. Which is very smart because we've seen what the threat of him running does to the defense. It keeps the dogs for hunting, keeps Watson for getting murdered behind that line and helps the offensive line tremendously.

Steel is acting like we're running it on every other play which is false. He was also wrong about Watson not being able to run this offense.
What I'm saying is go back and look at Clemsons offense and tell me it doesn't look a whole lot more like what BOB's currently running vs what the Pats/Saints are currently running.

And quit trying to tell posters what I think. I can do that just fine on my own. Thanks.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
But every pass play has multiple options for each route depending on what the defense is showing... I just think that now the qb and the receivers are seeing the same better
Because the offense has been simplified. Did the QB/WR's suddenly get on the same page or are they using a different offense?
 


Top